I was part of the preorder and just finished my first project with it, an MFT style workbench (3x5). My prior woodworking experience was a single class in high school. I would likely not have attempted this project without access this tool.
The software works off of SVG files, which was appealing as this is a format I'm already accustomed to. They have made a plugin for exporting SVG from Fusion360 models. The workflow to go from idea to a finished prototype is pretty quick.
Price for me was competitive, I had been looking at laser cutters which start at 2x-3x the price of this. Obviously not a direct comparison in capabilities.
Looks cool, and I guess I'm old and illogical - but I miss the 'old days' when you could just buy things without teasers, pre-announcements, order windows, etc.
I doesn't build excitement in my case, more that I forget about it and move on.
I feel you, but also having been on the other side of things (worked for a hardware startup in the AR space), whoo boy is hardware hard.
From the side of the manufacturer, all the things you mentioned are a form of risk mitigation and demand forecasting. It's likely a fatal, company ending mistake to build 5x too many in your initial run.
So, while I'm not a huge fan of such activities, I am a HUGE fan of the devices and creativity they enable as otherwise we just wouldn't see this kind of stuff.
You seem to gloss over the old days where we got teasers and pre-announcements in the form of interviews, tradeshow reports, and PR photos in trade magazines. They were just doled out at a much lower frequency than today, but then that's pretty much true of everything else, too.
I tried one of these 2-3 years ago and briefly talked to one of the founders. It's a really cool tool, and surprisingly fun to use. I was immediately smitten and asked "how much?" The price he told me then was half the price they're advertising now, and I still balked. Admittedly I don't know the market for carpentry, but it seems like a niche product for professionals or rich hobbyists. That said though, I'd still love to have one.
But at that price, they're well into the lower end of real CNC machine territory. This still requires hands on for "gross motor control". That's time a person can't spend doing other stuff.
With a real CNC, you plonk your board in, zero it and click Go and your parts emerge some time later. Saving time is important for the professional user.
I own one. It comes with autodesk 360 for a year. Truth be told, this thing is solid as a tank and incredibly well built. Makes inlays a breeze and does a faultless job at basic tasks.
The best part is that all the capabilities are in a small box so you don’t need a room to store it and it’s portable.
It can take a long time to do larger projects and you can’t fire it up and forget it, but it’s an exceptionally good product.
Honestly,I wonder if this concept isn't better suited for welding robots and plasma cutters. It seems ideally suited for those tools. You need precise control of a tool position, and the reason,they're not done by hand more right now is that access to the workpiece and clamping it in place are a huge pain.
A big problem with handheld CNC is that cutting many materials you'd want to cut requires precise control of your speed, and also requires rather large amounts of force and rigidity. CNC in wood or plastic is pretty easy, but steel is hugely more difficult. There's a reason traditional mills are made with thousands of pounds of cast steel, and it's not to make it hard for hobbyists to enter,
I wonder if a 3-5 axis might be better done by using servo-actuated brakes to constrain your motion to a desired direction and speed. Though I remain skeptical that the problem with CNC is the expense of long axes. You pay for the power, not length - a 30" ballscrew actuator costs maybe 2x as much as a 3".
Got to play with one of these for a few hours 2-3 years ago, back then it was pretty easy to make a shape and upload it to the device. The cuts it made on plywood were extremely clean and it was quite fun to use! Hooked up a vacuum to it and it sucked up a lot of the wood dust, so that wasn't too much of a problem.
Only problem was I had to concentrate when moving the device around on the wood since otherwise it would move outside the allowable range and I'd have to reset it.
I'd imagine that this would be for one-off products since otherwise a true CNC machine would save more time.
CNC is a misnomer. This is more like GPS for a router. Computer assisted machining would be more appropriate though that acronym would collide with CAM, computer aided manufacturing.
It's still a numerically controlled fabrication tool, well within the definition of CnC. It's just a hardware implementation where the broad motor control is offloaded to the human operator, with fine adjustment kept in-tool.
Computer-assisted would imply that the human is responsible for the milling, and the computer helps.
Here, the computer performs all milling and measurements, but rely on a human to move the machine to where the work needs to be completed, posting instructions on a screen to the human as to where to put the machine. This is simply to optimize machine size, as a full plate CNC mill is a pretty big beast.
I bought an $8000 4'x8' router table back in 2003 and built a a bunch of stich-and-glue kayaks with it. I could cut a table of parts while eating lunch from one sheet of marine plywood. With this I may save space, but I have to be present to cut all of those parts without tiring. I doubt hand control of the shaper can beat the accuracy. It's a neat, high-priced toy for makers (I'm one), but if you are going to make more than a few things regularly, go with a router table. I also made 3D carvings or portraits by writing a python script in Blender3D for the geometry, and there's no way you could do that by hand. I really like the Shaper, and I think it will sell, but it is a niche product. It also reminded me of the time I used a projector to, project cut-out templates on ply because I didn't need accuracy, and when I did we would plot out templates to transfer to the plywood, and then cut with a hand router by eye.
I've been looking at products in this space myself lately, and stumbled upon the Maslow, which has similar, though not identical functionality, but is a DIY product an order of magnitude cheap than this (though obviously far less polished and producty): http://www.maslowcnc.com/
I really want to like the Maslow, but I admit I'm losing patience with it. After a multi-month waiting period to get it I found that they hadn't shipped me all the parts. After a chat with their co-founder (who was very nice) I assumed all was taken care of, but it's been something like two weeks since then and still no parts. In the time it's taken just to get the Maslow kit I could easily have designed and built my own.
Very disappointing. Like I say, I want to like and support what seems to be a really nice company. I just don't have a product yet.
this battle was lost generations ago. Shapers were "mechanical apprentices" wielding chisels replaced by low speed specialized cutter horizontal milling machines (borrowed from circular saws from timber mills) replaced with high speed vertical milling machines with fewer smaller diameter cutters and fancy fixtures, replaced by CNC mills.
Somewhere in there, probably along with vertical mills, beefy router tables adopted the name "Shaper" as it was not being used enough by the mechanical apprentices to say so any more.
But I love watching the hypnotic motions of a metal shaper more than I will ever like even hearing a wood shaper, in another room ... while wearing earmuffs
My biggest problem is not being able to get sharp corners. Thats not a problem with Shaper Origin per se, but more with CNC based routers (note the chess board on their homepage, it doesn't have squares with 90 deg corners). If something like Shaper Origin supported being able to do this, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
You only cannot get sharp internal corners. External corners can be square/arbitrarily sharp. I don't think it's too big of a problem, usually you want things rounded to relieve stresses anyway, but indeed I can see situations such as aesthetics or piece compatibility this could be an issue.
At first glance it looked like the motion control was gamified with a driving game. Part of me wishes that was the case, the other part of is horrified of the thought of carpenters messing around with cloud enabled gameboys on their tools.
As it hand-held machine, then it's NOT a CNC[0] by design...
> Computer numerical control (CNC) is the automation of machine tools by means of computers executing pre-programmed sequences of machine control commands. This is in contrast to machines that are manually controlled by hand wheels or levers, or mechanically automated by cams alone.
Similar packaging and probably marketing to fein gear.... Fancy case and some pretty looking tools but tbh I don't see that piece of equipment ever making it into the workshop and it barely looks like it would survive a week on-site too. 2500 dollary doos is pretty damned expensive for what looks to be a damned fragile bit of gear with very little use.
Like the biggest problem to making cuts with a router is that it grabs and pulls and goes off direction. Having a little map of where your "supposed to go" isn't going to prevent this.. So I see this thing doing nothing to make your job's/cuts more accurate. Yes it maps it for you...but so does a projector and a pencil and then your not limited to the size or shape of the router...just the skill of the operator.
If it was priced say...450 or maaaaaaaaaaaaybe 750 aud? It would possibly get a look in? I get a makita for like 200 bucks that will take a thrashing on site and a dewalt for like 600 if you want a few extra ponies under the bonnet. But christ...2500 dollary doos. I can buy half a chippies work truck for that! In the famed words of the castle "tell em' he's dreamin!"
I'm not sure you understand what this is. It's not a router, it's a handheld 4'x8' CNC. If Makita has a 4x8 CNC for 200 bucks, it's news to me. :-)
It doesn't have "a little map of where you're supposed to go", it has a display showing where it is going to go. Now, I don't drive my router every day (a Bosch, FYI), so I'll admit I'm not a skilled operator. But my ability to follow a pencil line with a router is iffy at best.
You are right that the biggest problem to making cuts with a router is it grabbing and going off path. That isn't so much a problem with a CNC. I don't know how the Shaper, being hand-held rather than a mounted chassis, prevents kicking out like that. I don't know if it stops cutting when you move the body, or is fast enough to move the tool when you are repositioning the body and the tool grabs.
The Shaper's goal is that an unskilled operator can do accurate and repeatable cuts.
That said, I haven't used the Shaper. I've watched some folks over the years use them on YouTube, and I've half wished I'd bought the older model when they had it for pre-order for $1,500.
But the downside of these tools is that you can't just whip them out and start making chips, you've got to have CAD and CAM experience and generate the gcode. I've done a little with 3D printers, and SketchUp, and custom gcode. But I'm far from being able to bang out a set of shapes for a one-off project. I'd have to be making a few or more of something before I even considered it.
The Shaper looks insanely cool, and I wish our Maker Space had one, but I also don't have an immediate need for one either. I CAN tell you that I've recently been wishing our 4x8 CNC took up a lot less floor space, it's bigger than either of our workbenches but can't be used as a work surface (policy decision).
[+] [-] yaw|8 years ago|reply
The software works off of SVG files, which was appealing as this is a format I'm already accustomed to. They have made a plugin for exporting SVG from Fusion360 models. The workflow to go from idea to a finished prototype is pretty quick.
Price for me was competitive, I had been looking at laser cutters which start at 2x-3x the price of this. Obviously not a direct comparison in capabilities.
Overall, I'm quite happy with it
[+] [-] gedy|8 years ago|reply
I doesn't build excitement in my case, more that I forget about it and move on.
[+] [-] michaelbuckbee|8 years ago|reply
From the side of the manufacturer, all the things you mentioned are a form of risk mitigation and demand forecasting. It's likely a fatal, company ending mistake to build 5x too many in your initial run.
So, while I'm not a huge fan of such activities, I am a HUGE fan of the devices and creativity they enable as otherwise we just wouldn't see this kind of stuff.
[+] [-] TheRealPomax|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stefan_|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Judgmentality|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikeash|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oliwarner|8 years ago|reply
With a real CNC, you plonk your board in, zero it and click Go and your parts emerge some time later. Saving time is important for the professional user.
[+] [-] ktm5j|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] happertiger|8 years ago|reply
The best part is that all the capabilities are in a small box so you don’t need a room to store it and it’s portable.
It can take a long time to do larger projects and you can’t fire it up and forget it, but it’s an exceptionally good product.
[+] [-] 21|8 years ago|reply
Now someone needs to build the equivalent for 3-5 axis, maybe with a free movable support arm since it might be too heavy to hold just with hands.
[+] [-] LeifCarrotson|8 years ago|reply
A big problem with handheld CNC is that cutting many materials you'd want to cut requires precise control of your speed, and also requires rather large amounts of force and rigidity. CNC in wood or plastic is pretty easy, but steel is hugely more difficult. There's a reason traditional mills are made with thousands of pounds of cast steel, and it's not to make it hard for hobbyists to enter,
I wonder if a 3-5 axis might be better done by using servo-actuated brakes to constrain your motion to a desired direction and speed. Though I remain skeptical that the problem with CNC is the expense of long axes. You pay for the power, not length - a 30" ballscrew actuator costs maybe 2x as much as a 3".
[+] [-] patosai|8 years ago|reply
Only problem was I had to concentrate when moving the device around on the wood since otherwise it would move outside the allowable range and I'd have to reset it.
I'd imagine that this would be for one-off products since otherwise a true CNC machine would save more time.
[+] [-] MisterTea|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelt|8 years ago|reply
Sounds pretty CNC to me.
[+] [-] TheRealPomax|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arghwhat|8 years ago|reply
Here, the computer performs all milling and measurements, but rely on a human to move the machine to where the work needs to be completed, posting instructions on a screen to the human as to where to put the machine. This is simply to optimize machine size, as a full plate CNC mill is a pretty big beast.
TL;DR: This is a human-assisted CNC router.
[+] [-] derekja|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eggy|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mizza|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] debatem1|8 years ago|reply
Very disappointing. Like I say, I want to like and support what seems to be a really nice company. I just don't have a product yet.
[+] [-] zootam|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] markrages|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tejtm|8 years ago|reply
Somewhere in there, probably along with vertical mills, beefy router tables adopted the name "Shaper" as it was not being used enough by the mechanical apprentices to say so any more.
But I love watching the hypnotic motions of a metal shaper more than I will ever like even hearing a wood shaper, in another room ... while wearing earmuffs
[+] [-] gaze|8 years ago|reply
There are multiple kinds of shapers. Plus, give them a little poetic leeway.
[+] [-] avanderhoorn|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darkmighty|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Hasz|8 years ago|reply
You either need some type of punch or an (actual) shaper.
[+] [-] nanomonkey|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] app4soft|8 years ago|reply
As it hand-held machine, then it's NOT a CNC[0] by design...
> Computer numerical control (CNC) is the automation of machine tools by means of computers executing pre-programmed sequences of machine control commands. This is in contrast to machines that are manually controlled by hand wheels or levers, or mechanically automated by cams alone.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerical_control
[+] [-] westoncb|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gtvwill|8 years ago|reply
Like the biggest problem to making cuts with a router is that it grabs and pulls and goes off direction. Having a little map of where your "supposed to go" isn't going to prevent this.. So I see this thing doing nothing to make your job's/cuts more accurate. Yes it maps it for you...but so does a projector and a pencil and then your not limited to the size or shape of the router...just the skill of the operator.
If it was priced say...450 or maaaaaaaaaaaaybe 750 aud? It would possibly get a look in? I get a makita for like 200 bucks that will take a thrashing on site and a dewalt for like 600 if you want a few extra ponies under the bonnet. But christ...2500 dollary doos. I can buy half a chippies work truck for that! In the famed words of the castle "tell em' he's dreamin!"
[+] [-] linsomniac|8 years ago|reply
It doesn't have "a little map of where you're supposed to go", it has a display showing where it is going to go. Now, I don't drive my router every day (a Bosch, FYI), so I'll admit I'm not a skilled operator. But my ability to follow a pencil line with a router is iffy at best.
You are right that the biggest problem to making cuts with a router is it grabbing and going off path. That isn't so much a problem with a CNC. I don't know how the Shaper, being hand-held rather than a mounted chassis, prevents kicking out like that. I don't know if it stops cutting when you move the body, or is fast enough to move the tool when you are repositioning the body and the tool grabs.
The Shaper's goal is that an unskilled operator can do accurate and repeatable cuts.
That said, I haven't used the Shaper. I've watched some folks over the years use them on YouTube, and I've half wished I'd bought the older model when they had it for pre-order for $1,500.
But the downside of these tools is that you can't just whip them out and start making chips, you've got to have CAD and CAM experience and generate the gcode. I've done a little with 3D printers, and SketchUp, and custom gcode. But I'm far from being able to bang out a set of shapes for a one-off project. I'd have to be making a few or more of something before I even considered it.
The Shaper looks insanely cool, and I wish our Maker Space had one, but I also don't have an immediate need for one either. I CAN tell you that I've recently been wishing our 4x8 CNC took up a lot less floor space, it's bigger than either of our workbenches but can't be used as a work surface (policy decision).
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]