How does this work since foreigners are still not allowed to have equity in Chinese startups? Is YC getting an exemption from the government, or are they holding it in a Chinese incorporated company?
This is not my experience, owning one and having owned another. Foreigners can own outright or have a stake in multiple types of organizations, either directly or indirectly, though not all (certain protected sensitive industries such as media, finance, etc.). I suppose this is perhaps a misconception based upon some kind of isolated incidence in which a domestic Chinese registered company had issues writing a foreign investor as a direct shareholder. I am certain this can be done but wouldn't be surprised if it may require alteration of the registration category of the company or the reformation of a new entity owing to the ancient (but improving!) corporate registration system which was geared toward early large foreign industrial investments which came with substantial government shepherding. I seriously doubt the assumed case that caused this misconception is some kind of conniving attempt at ineffective protectionism - far more likely just the wee end of inertia stemming from old-school socialist bureaucracy.
I am amazed by the negativity in the comments. China is a very specific environment with its own rules - just like the US or Europe.
There you need to maintain good relations with the party, in the western world it is government officials (preferably those who are not voted into office and thus stick around).
Entering such a new, different playing field should tickle every entrepreneur's nerves.
Edit: How we fail, esp. in the fb- and now Google debate, that most of the tech we develop is dual-use and can be turned against us in an instant, escapes me.
I've had the dubious privilege of being around many college students, and in that experience the fact that they say something is true about markets or academia has very little relationship to whether it is actually true.
This is awesome. I’ve been wondering how hard it is to partner up, give trainings or consult in China. Without many english speakers there it seems that the Chinese language is a pre requisite but it might be getting better.
If anyone has experience to share I’d be interested. I’m guessing this kind of ventures might be easy sales to universities like Tsing Hua.
I don't find Beijing to be the best place to start something like that. I'd rather prefer Shanghai which provides a much better ecosystem and access to capital than Beijing.
Shenzhen is the tech place to be in China. But if you want to make the government happy, you got to be near them in Beijing, so a lot of tech happens there also.
I'm not optimistic about this at all. The same metrics for success just don't apply in China. All the elements necessary for success in the US could be there, but in China the startup may get red-taped and legislated out of existence in favor of a basically identical entity with better connections to the Satanic squid in charge of the country. I predict a rapid demise for this project, sorry to say. Talented Chinese entrepreneurs, please make your way out of the country as soon as you can.
Having spent 5 years there, I have to say it's not a uniform hellscape, to say the least.
There are millions of potential Chinese entrepreneurs, idealistic and talented, who deserve to have their efforts catalyzed. That's the way forward. If you want a new generation of leaders and a more egalitarian culture, you are not alone, and I'm super happy to see YC decide to help build it.
I'm disappointed to know that YC has drank the cool-aid on China. Once you invest significantly in China, you quickly find yourselves beholden to the whims of the CCP. And for what? Such privileges as building their dystopian techno-autocracy for them? I don't see any signs in this statement that you are going into this with your eyes open to either the difficulties this will cause down the line, nor the morally "questionable" things you will all be a part of building now. Of course, none of that will be in there, because you all already know that to say anything untoward on the matter would break the ice right out from under your feet.
And of course, that's all if you're actually "successful", unlikely given the CCP will prefer something more malleable than even the likes of Zuckerberg are willing to be. I foresee a rapid demise to this project, indeed, I pray for it, as the alternative, you guys actually succeeding, would be painful to watch given what it will involve.
Agreed, investing in China is the "invading Russia" of the tech world. Yes, China is a huge market and a rapidly growing economy, which makes investing there an extremely appetizing prospect. However, it seems very difficult for non-chinese to be able to hold onto their investments in China without their business being ripped off (e.g. having the business model copied by a more Chinese company that gets favorable government treatment and takes over the nascent market), not to mention the political uncertainty of having to deal with / win the favor of arbitrary officials in the Chinese government that may have interests conflicting with your own.
And even if you are successful, you have to consider the ethics of what you're enabling - suppose you create a wildly successful and helpful service for Chinese people that involves users' geographic data, private messages between individuals, or financial transactions. You won't get a say in turning over that data to authorities for any and every reason that they have for wanting it. Are you willing to actively participate in corruption and the quashing of political dissent for money?
China is the future though. As scary as that is, it’s still reasonable to invest in Chinese tech, at least if your plan is to make money.
I don’t think westerners in general realize how advanced China is becoming. Being from Europe, visiting China is like stepping into a sci-fI novel. Not a happy one, mind you, but it’s becoming impossible to ignore.
Make no mistake. YC will slowly but surely come under pressure to give the CCP influence over content as well as access to private user data, first their own and then that they wield influence over.
Don't forget the malware-ridden Chinese Skype client, LinkedIn's willingness to censor global content on China's behalf, or Yahoo's capitulation of dissident information that lead to executions.
HN will likely start suppressing any factual discussion on Taiwan or the nine dash line as "flamewar bait" while allowing increasingly nationalistic Chinese propaganda to pass unchecked. It won't be today or tomorrow but money and influence wear down almost any organization eventually.
This is a sad day, and it only marks the beginning what is to come.
I've become rather disturbed by the amount of pro-autocratic sentiment I've encountered in tech circles. It comes in both the "right" (and "alt-right") and "left" varieties, as well as a few other weirder forms, but it's there.
I guess hackers are no different from anyone else. Dangle money in front of people and they do tend to toss their morals out the window more often than not. I am not claiming that I am superior either. If someone offered me a shitload of money to do something I considered unethical, I can't say with 100% certainty that I'd never take it... to claim so would be the fallacy of self-exclusion. "I might be a coward I've just never been tested." - The Mighty Mighty Bosstones / The Impression That I Get
I've also anecdotally observed that people with high IQs are often autocrats. They're prone to imagining that there are straightforward solutions to all the worlds problems and that all these problems could be solved if only things were run by smart people like them. They haven't yet been humbled by attempting to solve a really brutal multi-objective optimization problem or tame a complex system full of paradoxical effects and feedback loops. Attempting to govern a complex society is both of these things.
This is jingoism masquerading as concern for autocracy. If people really cared about things like surveillance or dystopias in any serious way they would be on the streets about the extensively documented activities of the NSA, rubber stamp courts, secret orders, searching through personal effects at borders and campaigning for Snowden and other whistle blowers to be brought back with honors.
But on the ground these laws are renewed without protest, whistle blowers are hounded and demonized with little to no push back and dissenters like Snowden and Assange continue to be stranded for years on end.
If no one seems to care enough about these issues in our own countries or our own dissenters how can concern for others countries be authentic. Don't use fabricated concerns to demonize others.
They need compete with www.sinovationventures.com.'Sinovation Ventures' has quite a few similarities to YC, for example:The founders like to support each other, etc
Kai Fu’s (famous for the ballmer chair) innovation works has been around forever, it’s not like China is lacking for YC-style tech incubators. However, they are all Chinese owned and managed without direct connections to SV.
This will fail so much. If you ever had anything to do with China you know there's no path in. Especially under Xi.
Even in the old lang sine, when China was (more) open to the West it was still hard. Think about getting serious stuff stolen, threatened by people with sticks etc. Then you sue someone and the judge simply decides in favor of the Chinese party, no matter what they did.
The only option I can see is if you have privately loads of money and then marry a strong business family in China. Then through your Chinese wife you can achieve something.
Think of it this way: eventually, China will figure out and dominate this market like any other they've tackled. So if you stay in the US, you're just delaying the inevitable. This way, you're in on it, you're buying favor in a sense - in the new world order, having an pre-existing relationship with the 900 pound gorilla might come in handy.
I would assume YC has plenty of "wives" and "husbands" (read network connections) in China to vouch for them in front of CCP leaders.
Edit: Besides, regardless of connections, I think, the deal where YC provides easy U.S. market entry for Chinese startups for a share in the company is pretty attractive to both sides.
Will there be a livestream? Would be a great opportunity to try out instantaneous real-time audio and video translation in english, chinese and japanese ;)
I hope YC will help Chinese startups become global. My biggest problem with Silicon Valley is its ideological uniformity and the increasing willingness to use their companies/products as vehicles to push their ideologies.
China would be in an excellent position to address the part of the Western market that is increasingly alienated by this push. They can build SV tech clones for the local market, and then expand to the global market by offering ideologically more neutral (from Western perspective) alternatives to SV tech.
Chinese startups will have their own flaws, but at least we will have a choice.
I hope YC will help Chinese startups become global.
Why would you want that? As long as the chinese goverment prevent foreign companies to buy chinese companies no one should be happy about chinese startups going global. The chinese goverment is highly corrupt and only supports actions which benefits the chinese. That's why there are so many "joint ventures".
I'm deeply confused what "ideological diversity" Chinese companies will offer. How much of the Western market is really pining for that autocratic, pro-censorship touch?
>ideologically more neutral
I hardly feel like the global market will accept Chinese alternatives as being "ideologically neutral" in any sense of the phrase.
Because Beijing is the best city in China. Shanghai is for people who don't like China.
By the way, never fuck with anyone with money in Shanghai. There is always somebody with more money than you. Never fuck with anyone with power in Bejing....
[+] [-] seanmcdirmid|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mstaoru|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] contingencies|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notbeevil|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jlg23|8 years ago|reply
There you need to maintain good relations with the party, in the western world it is government officials (preferably those who are not voted into office and thus stick around).
Entering such a new, different playing field should tickle every entrepreneur's nerves.
Edit: How we fail, esp. in the fb- and now Google debate, that most of the tech we develop is dual-use and can be turned against us in an instant, escapes me.
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tgb29|8 years ago|reply
'Doing research in China is the dream'
'I'll move back to China after I graduate; there's more opportinuty for startups there.'
[+] [-] Matticus_Rex|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ausjke|8 years ago|reply
if you want to have freedom of speech there somehow, you're out immediately, the great firewall is there for a reason.
[+] [-] pnw_hazor|8 years ago|reply
Every day China is becoming even more of a nightmare dystopia, so of course YC will dive in headfirst.
[+] [-] baby|8 years ago|reply
If anyone has experience to share I’d be interested. I’m guessing this kind of ventures might be easy sales to universities like Tsing Hua.
[+] [-] jk2323|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sandGorgon|8 years ago|reply
I wonder why China was chosen over India.
[+] [-] dbuder|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] philippz|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seanmcdirmid|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zwaps|8 years ago|reply
Sure, I'll invest right away!
[+] [-] b6|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neolefty|8 years ago|reply
There are millions of potential Chinese entrepreneurs, idealistic and talented, who deserve to have their efforts catalyzed. That's the way forward. If you want a new generation of leaders and a more egalitarian culture, you are not alone, and I'm super happy to see YC decide to help build it.
[+] [-] SuperNinKenDo|8 years ago|reply
And of course, that's all if you're actually "successful", unlikely given the CCP will prefer something more malleable than even the likes of Zuckerberg are willing to be. I foresee a rapid demise to this project, indeed, I pray for it, as the alternative, you guys actually succeeding, would be painful to watch given what it will involve.
[+] [-] opportune|8 years ago|reply
And even if you are successful, you have to consider the ethics of what you're enabling - suppose you create a wildly successful and helpful service for Chinese people that involves users' geographic data, private messages between individuals, or financial transactions. You won't get a say in turning over that data to authorities for any and every reason that they have for wanting it. Are you willing to actively participate in corruption and the quashing of political dissent for money?
[+] [-] eksemplar|8 years ago|reply
I don’t think westerners in general realize how advanced China is becoming. Being from Europe, visiting China is like stepping into a sci-fI novel. Not a happy one, mind you, but it’s becoming impossible to ignore.
[+] [-] whatyoucantsay|8 years ago|reply
Don't forget the malware-ridden Chinese Skype client, LinkedIn's willingness to censor global content on China's behalf, or Yahoo's capitulation of dissident information that lead to executions.
HN will likely start suppressing any factual discussion on Taiwan or the nine dash line as "flamewar bait" while allowing increasingly nationalistic Chinese propaganda to pass unchecked. It won't be today or tomorrow but money and influence wear down almost any organization eventually.
This is a sad day, and it only marks the beginning what is to come.
[+] [-] FLUX-YOU|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mtgx|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] api|8 years ago|reply
I guess hackers are no different from anyone else. Dangle money in front of people and they do tend to toss their morals out the window more often than not. I am not claiming that I am superior either. If someone offered me a shitload of money to do something I considered unethical, I can't say with 100% certainty that I'd never take it... to claim so would be the fallacy of self-exclusion. "I might be a coward I've just never been tested." - The Mighty Mighty Bosstones / The Impression That I Get
I've also anecdotally observed that people with high IQs are often autocrats. They're prone to imagining that there are straightforward solutions to all the worlds problems and that all these problems could be solved if only things were run by smart people like them. They haven't yet been humbled by attempting to solve a really brutal multi-objective optimization problem or tame a complex system full of paradoxical effects and feedback loops. Attempting to govern a complex society is both of these things.
[+] [-] throw2016|8 years ago|reply
But on the ground these laws are renewed without protest, whistle blowers are hounded and demonized with little to no push back and dissenters like Snowden and Assange continue to be stranded for years on end.
If no one seems to care enough about these issues in our own countries or our own dissenters how can concern for others countries be authentic. Don't use fabricated concerns to demonize others.
[+] [-] greatabel|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seanmcdirmid|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] erikb|8 years ago|reply
Even in the old lang sine, when China was (more) open to the West it was still hard. Think about getting serious stuff stolen, threatened by people with sticks etc. Then you sue someone and the judge simply decides in favor of the Chinese party, no matter what they did.
The only option I can see is if you have privately loads of money and then marry a strong business family in China. Then through your Chinese wife you can achieve something.
[+] [-] mistermann|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] forkerenok|8 years ago|reply
Edit: Besides, regardless of connections, I think, the deal where YC provides easy U.S. market entry for Chinese startups for a share in the company is pretty attractive to both sides.
[+] [-] indescions_2018|8 years ago|reply
Baidu Shows Off Its Instant Pocket Translator
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610623/baidu-shows-off-it...
[+] [-] contingencies|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] middle1|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ajeet_dhaliwal|8 years ago|reply
I don't understand if this is something online or not, it mentions attending group office hours.
[+] [-] sandslash|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] exabrial|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jpincheira|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Presquare|8 years ago|reply
I hope YC will help Chinese startups become global. My biggest problem with Silicon Valley is its ideological uniformity and the increasing willingness to use their companies/products as vehicles to push their ideologies.
China would be in an excellent position to address the part of the Western market that is increasingly alienated by this push. They can build SV tech clones for the local market, and then expand to the global market by offering ideologically more neutral (from Western perspective) alternatives to SV tech.
Chinese startups will have their own flaws, but at least we will have a choice.
[+] [-] benjaminsuch|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ng12|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seawlf|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ribfeast|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Dowwie|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baybal2|8 years ago|reply
Because this guy lives there > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Xi_Jinpi...
[+] [-] jk2323|8 years ago|reply
By the way, never fuck with anyone with money in Shanghai. There is always somebody with more money than you. Never fuck with anyone with power in Bejing....