Wow, that's bad. And judging by the dates on some of those articles this is not just something that was happening a few years ago. It looks like the law came down on this mid last year.
Wow ... if you scroll down (on mobile) and keep reading the articles there, it’s just an endless list of “really bad stuff happening in China.” To the extent that I had to look up whether SCMP is some kind of American propaganda outfit. And ... from what I can tell it seems to be heavily influenced by the Chinese govt. Can someone with more insight offer a quick rundown of how SCMP fits into Chinese media?
SCMP is a prestigious newspaper and the “newspaper of record” for Hong Kong.
However, recently it was bought out by Alibaba, which is of course a Chinese company. The articles still don’t seem that much pro-Chinese, however this does have some sinister overtones for the future, and fits in well with the Chinese strategy of steady expansion / soft subtle influence of foreign govs and institutes.
Although the Chinese government occasionally manages to exert its influence to prevent particularly inconvenient reporting, the SCMP is still a mostly independent outlet similar to newspapers in the West. Consequently, the SCMP website is blocked by the Great Firewall so that Mainlanders can't easily read anything critical of their government.
Another thing is that some stuff that Americans consider dystopian are seen as good by PRC citizens; for example thieves getting apprehended by leveraging ubiquitous cameras and facial recognition, getting train discounts for not knowing people banned from wechat etc. My guess is all the nutty stuff that went down in the mid 20th century makes "stability" much more attractive
> it’s just an endless list of “really bad stuff happening in China.”
It's not necessarily inaccurate. I lived in China for a few years and still try to keep up with news about China, and it really seems to me like one worrisome thing after another.
I don't think this is necessarily perceived as bad publicity or anti-mainland propaganda. This can easily be perceived as PSA "listen, in china laws are draconian, deal with it."
SCMP was founded as a pro-british propaganda newspaper in the early 20th century and has pretty much remained so while switching owners ( rupert murdoch then robert kuok ). SCMP's claim to fame is coining and popularing the propaganda term "Rape of Nanking" during ww2 when the japanese invaded british/western interests in nanking.
It was bought out by Jack Ma in 2016. Jack Ma is the founder of Alibaba and it is rumored that he maintains close ties to the chinese government/party.
It is assumed that SCMP will be the english language pro-beijing propaganda arm going forward.
The Master said: "If the people be led by laws, and uniformity sought to be given them by punishments, they will try to avoid the punishment, but have no sense of shame. If they be led by virtue, and uniformity sought to be given them by the rules of propriety, they will have the sense of shame, and moreover will become good."
In Ontario, Canada DUI offenders must install a Ignition Interlock Program. Which is basically a breathalyzer that the driver must blow in to start the car.
And if that is not shameful enough, there’s another shameful add-on: an red/amber light the offender must install on the front bumper, dead center. The light activates if you fail the the test after you were driving for a bit.
But the light doesn’t need to be turned on to shame. It’s very obvious that it’s there, even when it’s off.
But this is done through court orders and a due process, correct? On repeated offenders, for the benefit of themselves too?
What's described in the article isn't the same.
You shouldn't let financial institutions using this kind of coercion at will.
You also shouldn't ostracize those people from society. If they committed a crime, enforce the punishment. Is it a fine? Jail time? Withholding a portion future wages? Do so. Shaming has no place in modern society.
The article also mentions they're not allowed to buy train tickets. How are they going to earn money and repay their debts if they are denied transportation (amongst "many" other things)?
And finally, shouldn't we be shaming the financial institution for loaning money to individuals without any legal guarantees and no collateral? Aren't they the ones that should manage this risk? Aren't they the ones reaping benefits for this?
This is a very dangerous game to play. And I certainly don't like bunching up those who owe millions and can afford to pay back, and those who owe hundreds and are probably living in poverty. Keep the shaming for public figures, not private individuals.
In Minnesota (and maybe a couple other states) DUI offenders are given a special license plate for their car. They're easily identifiable by their plain white background and the fact that every one of these plates starts with the letter 'W', which gives them the name "whiskey plates".
Police officers in Minnesota used to be able to pull over any whiskey plate car without needing any reason to do so, which was eventually found to be unconstitutional by the state supreme court.
That sounds great (ok not the light on the front which sounds like a hazard for pedestrians). I'd love to know if I was over the limit or not before getting in the car if I'd had a beer at lunch, or had several the night before.
Eventually it'll get to where Philip K Dick had it in Lies Inc, where a drone announcer will stalk you about, informing everyone around you of your current finances
I don't see how this is much different than the deadbeat dad billboards and public shaming that we use in the U.S. [1]
They get results: "the first billboards were so successful that another round of the roadside placards are being unveiled this week"
In the deadbeat dad cases the government is working for the best interests of children and women, but if you extrapolate this to a general law and order theme, then why not publicly shame all unrepentant debtors? [2]
I can see this triggering an inflection point in Chinese debt accumulation (if it hasn't happened already). Considering the insanely high debt to GDP ratio in China, it looks like they're in for a massive recession.
does anyone know what's the average or range of interest rates in China? Looks like banks are getting help from the state to collect. Help, well above and beyond traditional court /sheriff duties.
What a dystopia China is.....you can't say winnie the pooh. when you send a text message or post to wechat about winnie the pooh, it gets censored immediately. You have a deranged social credit score that prevents you from buying a house, riding a train, or leaving the country if you said winnie the pooh before. There are cameras tracking your every move in public. Most Chinese movies/tv shows you can watch have a 'china is great' and 'US/Japan is evil' motiv.
Oh and pollution is suffocating, there are days when you can barely see the sky, there are way too many people everywhere, ghost buildings and cities, you know the food and water are tainted, and your leader/dictator does look like winnie the pooh.
[+] [-] seanmcdirmid|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jacquesm|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tristanj|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jahvo|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rajacombinator|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Bucephalus355|8 years ago|reply
However, recently it was bought out by Alibaba, which is of course a Chinese company. The articles still don’t seem that much pro-Chinese, however this does have some sinister overtones for the future, and fits in well with the Chinese strategy of steady expansion / soft subtle influence of foreign govs and institutes.
[+] [-] yorwba|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xkcd-sucks|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] b6|8 years ago|reply
It's not necessarily inaccurate. I lived in China for a few years and still try to keep up with news about China, and it really seems to me like one worrisome thing after another.
[+] [-] 627467|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prmths|8 years ago|reply
It was bought out by Jack Ma in 2016. Jack Ma is the founder of Alibaba and it is rumored that he maintains close ties to the chinese government/party.
It is assumed that SCMP will be the english language pro-beijing propaganda arm going forward.
[+] [-] anvandare|8 years ago|reply
- Analects of Confucius, book II
[+] [-] bitL|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moltar|8 years ago|reply
In Ontario, Canada DUI offenders must install a Ignition Interlock Program. Which is basically a breathalyzer that the driver must blow in to start the car.
And if that is not shameful enough, there’s another shameful add-on: an red/amber light the offender must install on the front bumper, dead center. The light activates if you fail the the test after you were driving for a bit.
But the light doesn’t need to be turned on to shame. It’s very obvious that it’s there, even when it’s off.
[+] [-] John_KZ|8 years ago|reply
What's described in the article isn't the same. You shouldn't let financial institutions using this kind of coercion at will. You also shouldn't ostracize those people from society. If they committed a crime, enforce the punishment. Is it a fine? Jail time? Withholding a portion future wages? Do so. Shaming has no place in modern society.
The article also mentions they're not allowed to buy train tickets. How are they going to earn money and repay their debts if they are denied transportation (amongst "many" other things)? And finally, shouldn't we be shaming the financial institution for loaning money to individuals without any legal guarantees and no collateral? Aren't they the ones that should manage this risk? Aren't they the ones reaping benefits for this?
This is a very dangerous game to play. And I certainly don't like bunching up those who owe millions and can afford to pay back, and those who owe hundreds and are probably living in poverty. Keep the shaming for public figures, not private individuals.
[+] [-] castratikron|8 years ago|reply
Police officers in Minnesota used to be able to pull over any whiskey plate car without needing any reason to do so, which was eventually found to be unconstitutional by the state supreme court.
http://www.careydwidefense.com/MN-Whiskey-Plates.html
[+] [-] isostatic|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ams6110|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] __s|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oicu812|8 years ago|reply
They get results: "the first billboards were so successful that another round of the roadside placards are being unveiled this week"
In the deadbeat dad cases the government is working for the best interests of children and women, but if you extrapolate this to a general law and order theme, then why not publicly shame all unrepentant debtors? [2]
[1] https://www.ohio.com/akron/news/billboards-helped-in-arrest-... [2] https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/12/politics/deadbeat-dad-tweets-...
[+] [-] smaddox|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chenster|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrischen|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rahimnathwani|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ThatHNGuy|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] onetimemanytime|8 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|8 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] genefriend|8 years ago|reply
Oh and pollution is suffocating, there are days when you can barely see the sky, there are way too many people everywhere, ghost buildings and cities, you know the food and water are tainted, and your leader/dictator does look like winnie the pooh.
[+] [-] dang|8 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html