I work for a company that builds boats for many of the same goals in a more traditional form factor. The potential of autonomous marine vehicles is very high, and a very exciting field to be working in. https://www.asvglobal.com/
I’m hoping autonomous large scale plastics removal is something being looked into. This seems to be the only way to stem the plastic pollution explosion that has been occurring. I currently work in renewable energy industry but I can see myself wanting to move into this space in 5ish years due to the scale and impact of this problem is having and wanting to work with anyone working towards solutions.
How do your vessels comply with the international collision regulations? In particular, the requirement to 'at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions'?
> “It’s fuel, consumables, and I don’t even want to tell you what our satellite bill is for data,”
Interesting - the circumference of the earth is roughly 40 thousand km. If these could manage to lift an antenna either 140m (or equivalently 70m for all participants) - distance to Horizon should be roughly 40 km. So a thousand boats could form a theoretical relay net around a theoretical line in the ocean reaching around the globe.
More to the point, with a fidonet-/usenet-like stop-and-forward system - it might be viable to get data to land quicker than waiting for the drone to arrive with hard drives - and with greater/cheaper bandwidth than via satellite?
There is a system of AIS to broadcast position, course and speed of marine vessels. Perhaps one could combine this with a mesh relay network to forward packets to boats in the direction of land. An AIS and long range WiFi-like system running on top of sailor’s masts would be a fun community to bring together. Software defined radios could come in handy to handle multiple frequencies and protocols.
If high endurance air drones are advanced enough, you can coordinate sea and air nodes to make a mesh that avoids clouds and line of sight all-together so you don't have to string the network over the sea level horizon. Maybe have autonomous platforms that allow both to refuel too if they use hybrid systems.
That's interesting. 70 meters is a pretty dang tall aerial for something with that small a footprint to hold aloft, though. That plan also limits their range of movement severely to keep the network intact, but I guess they could use satellite as a backup.
Maybe a kite of some kind, but how do you reliably launch and retrieve it? I dunno, I think in practice the satellite may be cheaper.
Caveat wind issues, raising a balloon would work. But still you would need a big enough balloon to hold 70m of coax up and the antenna. On the plus side you could slowly electrolysize water with the solar panels to fill your balloon with hydrogen :-). So you would only need to carry spare envelopes rather than a bunch of helium tanks.
You could build this type of system with more sparsely placed nodes if you used HF communications, at which frequencies the waves reflect off the ionosphere [1].
Younger researchers no longer want to spend that much time at sea, cut off from most of the internet. “It’s really hard to get the younger generation excited about going to sea,” says NOAA’s Meinig. “People think it’s romantic and then find they can’t text their friends and don’t have access to hundreds of channels of TV. It’s just a different style of life.”
Fascinating. I guess the Saildrone is the ideal solution.
I wonder if this is really a generational thing vs a different type of person winning NOAA grants than in the past. Ie, people more interested in hype, advocacy, networking, etc than science.
Yeah this was my first thought as well. :( Like we need more effective methods of raping the oceans. Hopefully the scientific research will cover the potential drawbacks.
Saw the video yesterday on YouTube. I wonder what happens if they get into very strong winds or very strong swell - if they tip over, do they get up by themselves? What happens if they submerge?
Apparently they figured out how to do it, but my question is, how exactly are they doing it?
I've actually seen one of these at sea. Not this particular one but a similar autonomous vessel. Large swells aren't a problem. If it floats a swell will pass under it. Breaking swells are a concern and usually occur under gale force winds.
A boat has a displacement that is less than water. Which is how it floats. A small weighted bulb in the keel keeps everything pointing upright. You can mitigate the forces on a sail through 2 ways: heeling is when the entire boat leans to one side, heading up is pointing the wing sail into the wind.
Wingsails are pretty well understood and used extensively in racing. Volvo Ocean Racing (VOR) and America's Cup are 2 examples.
The video said everything on it was 100% submersible and saltwater-proof, and then all you need is an air bubble in the "sail" and it will eventually float up with the right side up, no?
Well, these have a keel that generally keeps them upright. It's almost certain they've been designed to be self righting if they do get knocked over by a breaking wave. Likewise, they float, so temporary submerging shouldn't be much of a problem provided they're sealed well.
One advantage of this kind of wing sail is it's "self trimming". With the tail/tab in neutral position, it'll always weathervane to follow the wind. With the tail tab deflected somewhat, it'll weathervane with some amount of angle of attack. So even in very heavy winds, all it needs to do is back off on the angle of attack and it should be in a relatively stable state.
One way they spread is by sticking to boats that owners take to a different lake without cleaning them. Cleaning isn't optional, but since it takes work it is unrealistic to believe everyone is going to actually do it. So despite campaigns to prevent it, zebra mussels keep spreading.
I've been (slowly and painfully) working my ways towards constructing a self-reproducing robo-boat swarm for a few years now, ever since learning about the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.
My idea is to set up a simple artificial ecosystem of interacting bots that collect and recycle oceanic trash to create more of themselves. This permits exponential growth, making it realistic to attempt to tackle such a large-scale problem from a relatively tiny "nucleus".
I want to use Molten salt oxidation [1] to convert trash to "synthesis gas" [2] then feed that through a water column to convert CO+H2O to CO2+H2. Recover the hydrogen for power (more power, the MSO reaction is exothermic) and feed the carbon dioxide to algae tanks. The algae can be processed to create both plastic membranes and a kind of ocean-water-proof glue. Rather than build boats, you make spheroids out of the plastic and glue them together to make foam. (I call it "spittlebug architecture" [3].) Foam and tendons allow you to make e.g. artificial hydras [4] which can be attached at their bases to long conduits (also make of glue-foam) to collect and sort trash and carry it (via peristalsis) to the MSO unit. The long hydra-lined conduits can be arranged in a (huge) spiral which can then be driven to rotate by positioning of sails and rudders embedded in the conduit. The MSO unit would be in the center.
The idea, at every stage, is to do and use the minimum of action and materials and energy throughout the system to maximize scalability and throughput-per-unit.
The outputs of the system will be power, fresh water, building material, and packets of recovered molecules (the ones that aren't made of H C or O) to hopefully be reused.
Glue + membranes + geometry + pressure = An open-ended variety of light-weight rigid structures with a very easy construction method. [5]
Exactly my thought. They could have these produced for cheap and throw an army of them into the oceans. Pretty sure the new Escobar equivalents are already working on it.
Totally off topic aside: I’m seeing a lot of Bloomberg links these days and I’m constantly “over the free limit.” Sometimes the “web” strategy works, and sometimes it doesn’t (like this article for me).
If I add up all the sources that are typical for HN it’s quite a lot. Bloomberg alone is $40/Mo now long term, plus nytimes, Washington Post, economist, FT, etc.
I already pay for two of these — I don’t feel the need for yet another, and I’m not going to start browsing Bloomberg for non-linked content.
What I’d like is the ability to pay for a universal “HN” articles membership to ANY website. If it’s linked from HN, let me read the full article, but it’s ok if I can’t browse the website.
A lot of publishers effectively do this for Facebook for free; why not for smaller aggregators for a membership?
I imagine autonomous bicycles using gyroscopes to stay stable, highly integrated camera's with environment comprehension (Waymo off-the-shelf chips) to redistribute them over the city at night.
[+] [-] ganashaw|7 years ago|reply
(If you're interested, we're hiring!)
[+] [-] mojomark|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] layoric|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scooble|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tsaoyu|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] e12e|7 years ago|reply
Interesting - the circumference of the earth is roughly 40 thousand km. If these could manage to lift an antenna either 140m (or equivalently 70m for all participants) - distance to Horizon should be roughly 40 km. So a thousand boats could form a theoretical relay net around a theoretical line in the ocean reaching around the globe.
More to the point, with a fidonet-/usenet-like stop-and-forward system - it might be viable to get data to land quicker than waiting for the drone to arrive with hard drives - and with greater/cheaper bandwidth than via satellite?
[+] [-] state_less|7 years ago|reply
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/
[+] [-] FLUX-YOU|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vertexFarm|7 years ago|reply
Maybe a kite of some kind, but how do you reliably launch and retrieve it? I dunno, I think in practice the satellite may be cheaper.
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] greatcircle|7 years ago|reply
[1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave
[+] [-] tsaoyu|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vermontdevil|7 years ago|reply
Fascinating. I guess the Saildrone is the ideal solution.
[+] [-] nonbel|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chiefalchemist|7 years ago|reply
Put another way, I bet the pay is low and the the on-ship amenities lacking. Expecting ppl to give you something for nothing isn't SMS's fault.
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] asciimo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spurgu|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grogers|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grepthisab|7 years ago|reply
Autonomous Marine Systems
http://www.automarinesys.com
[+] [-] __aeneas|7 years ago|reply
Apparently they figured out how to do it, but my question is, how exactly are they doing it?
[+] [-] yardie|7 years ago|reply
A boat has a displacement that is less than water. Which is how it floats. A small weighted bulb in the keel keeps everything pointing upright. You can mitigate the forces on a sail through 2 ways: heeling is when the entire boat leans to one side, heading up is pointing the wing sail into the wind.
Wingsails are pretty well understood and used extensively in racing. Volvo Ocean Racing (VOR) and America's Cup are 2 examples.
[+] [-] alexlarsson|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jasonwatkinspdx|7 years ago|reply
One advantage of this kind of wing sail is it's "self trimming". With the tail/tab in neutral position, it'll always weathervane to follow the wind. With the tail tab deflected somewhat, it'll weathervane with some amount of angle of attack. So even in very heavy winds, all it needs to do is back off on the angle of attack and it should be in a relatively stable state.
[+] [-] mhb|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NicoJuicy|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amelius|7 years ago|reply
Solution:
https://wyss.harvard.edu/barnacles-and-mussels-wont-stick-to...
[+] [-] adrianmonk|7 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_mussel#North_American_in...
One way they spread is by sticking to boats that owners take to a different lake without cleaning them. Cleaning isn't optional, but since it takes work it is unrealistic to believe everyone is going to actually do it. So despite campaigns to prevent it, zebra mussels keep spreading.
[+] [-] faitswulff|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Luc|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carapace|7 years ago|reply
I've been (slowly and painfully) working my ways towards constructing a self-reproducing robo-boat swarm for a few years now, ever since learning about the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.
My idea is to set up a simple artificial ecosystem of interacting bots that collect and recycle oceanic trash to create more of themselves. This permits exponential growth, making it realistic to attempt to tackle such a large-scale problem from a relatively tiny "nucleus".
I want to use Molten salt oxidation [1] to convert trash to "synthesis gas" [2] then feed that through a water column to convert CO+H2O to CO2+H2. Recover the hydrogen for power (more power, the MSO reaction is exothermic) and feed the carbon dioxide to algae tanks. The algae can be processed to create both plastic membranes and a kind of ocean-water-proof glue. Rather than build boats, you make spheroids out of the plastic and glue them together to make foam. (I call it "spittlebug architecture" [3].) Foam and tendons allow you to make e.g. artificial hydras [4] which can be attached at their bases to long conduits (also make of glue-foam) to collect and sort trash and carry it (via peristalsis) to the MSO unit. The long hydra-lined conduits can be arranged in a (huge) spiral which can then be driven to rotate by positioning of sails and rudders embedded in the conduit. The MSO unit would be in the center.
The idea, at every stage, is to do and use the minimum of action and materials and energy throughout the system to maximize scalability and throughput-per-unit.
The outputs of the system will be power, fresh water, building material, and packets of recovered molecules (the ones that aren't made of H C or O) to hopefully be reused.
Glue + membranes + geometry + pressure = An open-ended variety of light-weight rigid structures with a very easy construction method. [5]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_oxidation
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis_gas
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spittle_bug
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydras
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflatable_air_cushion & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-supported_structure
[+] [-] raducu|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] viach|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WJW|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mavdi|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NicoJuicy|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NinaJZapala|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lazyjones|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] azinman2|7 years ago|reply
If I add up all the sources that are typical for HN it’s quite a lot. Bloomberg alone is $40/Mo now long term, plus nytimes, Washington Post, economist, FT, etc.
I already pay for two of these — I don’t feel the need for yet another, and I’m not going to start browsing Bloomberg for non-linked content.
What I’d like is the ability to pay for a universal “HN” articles membership to ANY website. If it’s linked from HN, let me read the full article, but it’s ok if I can’t browse the website.
A lot of publishers effectively do this for Facebook for free; why not for smaller aggregators for a membership?
[+] [-] baxtr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sharpercoder|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] germinalphrase|7 years ago|reply