A powerful quote that may resonate with many of us and sum up his humility and fight with depression, from an interview with Biography.com (via reddit):
"I should’ve died in my 20s. I became successful in my 40s. I became a dad in my 50s. I feel like I’ve stolen a car — a really nice car — and I keep looking in the rearview mirror for flashing lights."
It wasn’t until I changed my relationship to all emotions and then sought out a variety of support to safely go deeply into my experience that I was able to find relief.
1 session of MDMA therapy lifted a decade of suicidal thoughts; session 2 a year later largely freed me of anxiety and paranoia; combined with a NARM therapist to help me heal developmental and shock trauma, yoga, holotropic Breathwork and a loving stable romantic relationship. And a lot of grace.
No meds, no longer a prisoner, and my life is vibrant and alive and the past feels like nothing more than a straight jacket I wriggled out of.
The often unspoken truth is that Trauma (developmental, shock, generational) underpins most all mental health issues (save issues of malnutrition, poisoning,tumors and TBI).
This is on the radar of few practioners who instead offer very limited tools to suppress symptoms.
And because mental health is actually a context, folks typically are surrounded by others who don’t have a very deep capacity to honor our expeirences and would rather try to “cheer us up” or change what we feel. The actual need is to have people who help us feel more of what we feel (that leads to deeper relief).
The Suicidal Impulse is a an impulse for the pain of our default mode network to stop. When we have unprocessed traumas, we are in a state of fight or flight and this activation is painful. It also leads to addiction.
Ego (default mode network) death and rebirth is possible without killing the body. It requires a safe context to release the old trauma and form new pathways in the incresed plasticity.
Know that there are actual solutions, it’s not your fault, and there are people here to help — but you will need to take responsibility for healing this as our current society is doing a terrible job thus far.
I wish I knew where to seek the treatment you found. I suffer from anxiety, depression, and trauma and it limits my potential every day. I have counselling but I find it extremely difficult to connect with the source of all of it and flush it out. I know it's in there, hiding. The ego death you speak of is what I invite every day but the negativity and shame that my ego has insulated itself with is extremely resilient.
My experience mirrors yours in many ways, including the tools, modalities, and techniques you mention. I appreciate what you've shared here and how you've articulated this.
I involuntarily gasped for air. This isn't someone I expected would die for a long time. Depression is a silent beast, and the stigma around talking about these problems is fatal as ever.
Anthony was inspirational to me in part because, among many reasons, though he lived his life in a very unusual way he was still successful and always adventurous.
I'm saddened to say I didn't gasp, I was more saddened that his demons had finally claimed him. Bourdain struggled with addiction in the past and stated flat out when talking about it the reasons he got into drugs in the first place was an emptiness inside of himself. My condolences go out to his daughter who's just 11 and ex-wife as well as the crew at Zero Point Zero that's supported and worked with him for years.
If this is indeed a depression-based suicide (I haven't read all of the details yet; they probably aren't even fully available), then it makes a rather profound statement about depression, because who didn't like this guy? Everyone really liked him, and he has produced years of excellent programming.
My mother committed suicide 8 years ago, and this is something I’ve spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about and trying to understand (in part to ensure I never suffer the same fate).
For anyone who has struggled with depression or severe anxiety, if you haven’t read the book The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk, I encourage you to read it as soon as possible — it’s one of the best, most approachable, resources out there to understand not only many of the roots of depression, but many strategies to actually overcome it (it’s very different from traditional talk therapy, which is mostly focused on getting people to cope with their past trauma rather than resolve it).
+1 for The Body Keeps the Score. One of the most useful books on overcoming trauma I've ever read. The idea of Developmental Trauma Disorder is so much more constructive than other models.
So many of the things we call "diseases" can be traced to trauma. "Mental injury" may be a more useful construct than "mental illness". In the same way that your body can heal from a femur fracture, your psyche can heal from a trauma-induced mind fracture.
This is a very sad day for me. I have never expressed this to anyone before. Anthony Bourdain was one of my heroes.
Anthony changed the way that I view the world and inspired me to explore the world's rich tapestry of life. We have lost someone who truly was a world citizen who built the culture that "different" could be good.
The man's struggles through addiction and journey to peak physical fitness in his late 50s is nothing short of inspiring. I hope that he is immortalized through his work.
So many assumptions going around but as someone who has turned their life around, if I relapsed at this point then I would seriously consider suicide. It’s such a hopeless feeling to be addicted. I’ve come too far to roll back down that hill.
But that’s just me. I didn’t climb anywhere near the same heights as he did which it why it made me think that. I hope it’s something more positive (as it could be for something like this).
Edit: Just to add, this death affected me so much more than any other celebrity. I look up to him so much for turning his life around and turning it into what it is. I forget which episode of his newer show it was but he goes out hunting with the guy and shoots a... deer/elk/something. He tells the guy it’s the healthiest he’s ever been. You could tell how much it meant to him to be healthy and be able to do the hike they did.
Don’t know why it stood out so much but I was so happy for him. It encouraged me to keep going.
I love Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain — I’ve always wanted to become a chef because of that book.
Otherwise, somehow, and I may be wrong, I think suicide might be deep rooted to our toxic: media, culture, attachments, conditioning, etc. It does sound a bit wrong to say. It might because I’m in my early twenties and still live with my parents and have lots of time to think but I’m becoming more aware of how, maybe, be of the world not in the world is so important. It seems like escapism but again, these days: I’m not reading the news as much or partaking in entertainment especially the internet, I’m spending more time alone in solitude, watching the evening sky, I’m going on walks, I’m deciding what has meaning and what does not, I’m just living but with no fuss, noise, or ego. Some may think it’s a boring way to live but it may be a true way to live, I think. It’s almost as I live in my own bubble and I’m not sure if that’s a right thing to do or not.
To the point, suicide and depression are terrible and I think, in modern day, we have to have a strong inner self to conquer it or else we get sucked in. It also reminds me of Thoreau’s Walden or Wallace’s understanding of American culture.
I found the best summation in one of the most unlikely places, the show Nip/Tuck: "I think that if a person is in a great deal of pain, physical or spiritual, and they've exhausted all their options, I wouldn't judge them for it. I'd say a silent prayer and hope death brought them the peace of mind life never could give them."
>Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016.
I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. With a growing list of famous, financially successful people committing suicide, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help. Or at least be able to talk to their friends/family when they first notice problems instead of hiding it until it's too late.
When people first start having these sorts of thoughts and even hint at it to other people, the whole "What are you depressed about? Your life is good" response so many people give only makes it worse, and hopefully it's beginning to go away. Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper.
Everyone points to mental Illness. You can't want to die if you're not mentally ill right? But "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" -Jiddu Krishnamurti
The illness is not all in the heads of the people killing themselves.
I recently initiated a suicide intervention for a loved one.
I would like to know what would make it better. Or at least what not to do.
I am relentlessly optimistic (cancer survivor, a learned skill). I definitely feel like my efforts here ("talking someone off the ledge") had mixed results at best. Good stuff for other cancer victims. Not so good for depression, suicidal tendencies.
Sure, I took careful notes of conversations with the various care providers, professionals. But I don't feel any better equipped to handle the next flare up.
PS- RIP Anthony Bourdain. Kitchen Confidential deeply influenced me. My first exposure to his ideas, worldview was a "Trial By Fire" profile on his management style in HBR (?). I loved how he accepted everyone to work in his kitchen, so long as they didn't miss a shift. How it was his crew versus the world, every night.
> Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016.
> I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude.
Not trolling: wouldn't this provide (weak, but nevertheless some) evidence that a "man up" sort of attitude was more effective at combating suicide than our attitude towards it now?
> When people first start having these sorts of thoughts and even hint at it to other people, the whole "What are you depressed about? Your life is good" response so many people give only makes it worse, and hopefully it's beginning to go away. Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper.
Personally, I don't really feel the "here's the suicide prevention hotline's number", "you should talk to someone", or "you should see a doctor" lines, which seem to be replacing that, are any better.
I'd say a grew up in a relatively conservative area, but throughout my entire life, society has recognized the seriousness of suicide and mental health issues.
> Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper.
Says who? Maybe if we put everything on that paper the scale would visibly tip but it may be the case that if we could perceive those things as they are such that they could be written down it would exclude the problem's sticking power.
By the way we should also confirm it was really depression.
The obituary I wrote on Facebook when I found out...
"'Fuck you,' he says. 'You don't even cook. You're not one of us anymore.' Far from being offended (although I am hurt), I want to give him a big hug. Another drink or two and I just might.
I don't cook. I'm not a chef. The chefs and cooks who are better than I used to be - better than I ever was - know this and don't need to say it. They certainly don't need to say it to my face, like this kid, pressing me up against the bar now with the force of his rage and hurt. He will channel those feelings, appropriately, into a demand that I do a shot of tequila with him. Or two.
Which is a relatively friendly and diplomatic solution to an awkward situation."
- Anthony Bourdain, "Medium Raw" (I opened to a random page)
Another great artist lost to suicide. Anthony Bourdain reinvented food writing with his book "Kitchen Confidential", injecting a brutal honesty and punk rock ethos into the stuffy world of restaurant reviews and travelogues. He continued writing with more terrific work like "Medium Raw" and "Nasty Bits". It's not just that his writing was full of practical advice for diners (never eat fish on mondays, never eat mussels, bread is recycled, etc)... it's that he was brutally honest about himself, about his struggles with depression and drug addiction. If you read his books, his suicide should come as no surprise.
He went on to reinvent food television with "No Reservations", a travelogue show that celebrated highbrow and lowbrow in equal measure, that put third world street food vendors in the same breath with Michelin-starred chefs, that ate the weird stuff not because it was weird, but because it was a new experience. From there, he went to "Parts Unknown" on CNN, elevating his work's already broad international beat to a more explicitly political level, visiting little-known and often dangerous places such as Libya and Myanmar, celebrating the joy and creativity people took in their food, even in the poorest, most oppressed places on Earth. He was a cultural ambassador for all of humanity, the likes of which had never been seen before.
And then there was that time that !Kung bushmen in Namibia punked him into eating a warthog's asshole by convincing him that it was their finest and most exclusive culinary delicacy. And then laughed their asses off at him. And he ran that on tv.
Rob Delaney (of Deadpool 2 and "funniest person on Twitter" fame) has written great stuff on overcoming suicidal depression with support and medication.[1][2][3] It affects the best people.
I was reading about the Hong Kong episode for Parts Unknown just yesterday where his girlfriend directed it and they used a famous cinematographer too that Anthony always wanted to work with.
I read Kitchen Confidential when it came out. A hge fan and followed him ever since.
Sympathy goes out to his young daughter and his friends and family.
I'm the same way. I usually think "why is this even news, it's not like these people were friends of this person." Then at times like these, I'm reminded what an impact his work had on my life.
Whenever Richard Cory went down town,
We people on the pavement looked at him:
He was a gentleman from sole to crown,
Clean favored, and imperially slim.
And he was always quietly arrayed,
And he was always human when he talked;
But still he fluttered pulses when he said,
"Good-morning," and he glittered when he walked.
And he was rich—yes, richer than a king—
And admirably schooled in every grace:
In fine, we thought that he was everything
To make us wish that we were in his place.
So on we worked, and waited for the light,
And went without the meat, and cursed the bread;
And Richard Cory, one calm summer night,
Went home and put a bullet through his head.
I can't decide if celebrity suicides are just more frequently reported these days or suicides overall have actually increased because we live in, what we collectively perceive as, darker times.
I suspect it is the latter, but I don't have the heart to google it.
Every Robin Williams, Chris Cornell, Anthony Bourdain no doubt causes a bit of a ripple of none famous suicides and thus this news is doubly sad.
This makes me very sad. When I saw him on the show he came across as a person who had achieved great success. Doesn't so much travel and meeting people make one more enlightened? How did this tragedy occur. I for one sometimes feel I should never have been born. My failings are too much to bear. I have hurt a lot of people with my actions, inactions and words.
I've always shared a fairly deep connection with Mr. Bourdain for two reason...number one, I actually look enough like him that when I travel I am constantly being asked if I am him, or do I know that I look like him etc...
The second is that we were both functional heroin addicts for some part of our professional lives.
His tell-all book "Kitchen Confidential" hit home to me like a 20-oz T-bone and a good bottle of red. His unafraid discussions of his addictions were a breath of fresh air in the otherwise stultified environment of talking-about-work.
There is little doubt in my mind that his struggles with addiction are related to the suicide, at some perhaps never to be known level.
He entertained the shit outta me, so he will be missed...cheers to you Anthony we hardly knew you.
I'll qualify that with - only if you know what you are doing.
If someone is struggling in the deep sea, dive in to help only if you have experience swimming in the deep sea. This stuff is not simple and can have lifelong negative effects on both parties if done wrong.
Anthony was ad close to an idol to me, since his cooking book was the first one I Read, I will surely miss him and his work. I haven’t felt this sad for some public figure since Steve jobs death.
I have a hypothesis about this based on personal experience.
For creative people with an audience, there's this expectation from the audience that every thing you release to the world will be as good or better than what you did before, and that you will produce this brilliance on a reasonably consistent schedule. Any slip in quality (say, from experimenting with something new) or any delay in delivery, and the toxic parts of your audience will hurl their bile. You're labeled a burnout, or you're losing your edge. The people who didn't like your work in the first place openly relish your stumble.
Some creatives like to pretend that these critiques don't sting, and maybe some fortunate souls truly are immune. But it's human nature to build our self-image based on feedback from others, and a good self image can be essential for survival.
I feel like some creatives such as Bourdain try to meet the demands of the public, and keep upping their game and pushing, but that can't go on forever. Exhaustion, harsh self-criticism, and a sense of responsibility to one's audience combine into a caustic soup, and it shrivels the soul. One is expected to be increasingly brilliant even as one's energy diminishes to the effects of burnout. Quitting will just invite more cries of "failure!" It's unsustainable, and sometimes the part that breaks is the willingness to continue to bear it.
To any creative people suffering from this cycle, I think the best remedy is to make a "temporary" lateral move if you can. Move out of the spotlight and lend your skill to up-and-comers for a while. It's hard to get mad at that. And there's an odd comfort in knowing that you never have to go back, but the option is there when/if you're ready.
We went to see him speak once, together with Jacques Pepin and Eric Ripert. It was clear that he felt things deeply, and had a great deal of integrity in his own way. He will be missed.
I wonder what impact, if any, the Kate Spade suicide had on his decision. Sometimes I wonder if people suffering from depression observe the attention people who have committed suicide recently receive and if it's influences their decision in any way. I imagine someone feeling really down right now see's all the love and empathy Bourdain is receiving post posthumously, and it could perhaps incentivize them to make the same decision. Am I reaching here?
You are not reaching - that is always one of my concerns when news like this comes in. But I am gratified to see how many comments on HN are approaching it from a perspective of increasing visibility of the mental health problems we need to solve. Hopefully that message gets out just as strongly as anything else.
I've been binge watching Bourdain on Netflix over the last few days. Really really strange to watch one more tonight knowing he is now dead. Very sad news indeed!
I'm at a week-long point of one of the harder depression episodes I've ever had. It came from running out and thus taking a break from my adhd meds. A week ago, I was worried about my health, because I loved life and wanted to live it to the fullest. The last 3-4 days has been 14 hour sleep sessions, lack of will to get up and out, and a profound sadness about my place in life. I had to keep talking myself out of saying I didn't want to be alive anymore last night; it was uncontrollable despair accompanied by insomnia. Went to my shrink today who gave me a welbutrin script so I'm hoping that works out for me. My saving grace in all this is how I've come to externalize the prolonged feeling of down-ness.
I talked to a good friend about it, who proceeded to tell me how it was just my state of mind and that "Its literally the way you look at a situation". Not only is that patronizing, it tries to erase the agony of my experiences. I've experimented with mdma, psychs (lsd, dmt, shrooms), weed, ket, none of it has sustained any sort of cure. The problems just come right back.
Please try to keep seeing professional help. My personal path with depression has been talking to a shrink who was also a psychologist. Se then indicated me to a cognitive behavioral therapist who has helped me immensely.
I really enjoyed his work, it genuinely inspired me to up my cooking game. Eric must be so overwhelmed right now :(
I've had friends take the same way out so this is bringing up some awful memories. The demons within are a powerful force no matter how good things seem to be going.
Very sad. Bourdain seemed like one of the few on TV who didn't take himself too seriously. I can't think of too many people who didn't like him or enjoy his show.
One of my favorite quotes from Tony: "Vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter-faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn."
Take care of yourselves my fellow techies. The brightest of us sometimes are consumed by the blackest abyss. Condolences to all who were impacted by his life.
There is a sad dark thread going through all of them.. dark humor, his comments on life, interactions with other people etc. She time He made it interesting and very real. The world is not all roses and I think that's what he tried to show.
Seems like he might have just broken up with his girlfriend. Maybe he did something to offend her and felt guilty about it. Guiltiness is usually more sad than anger.
Like many celebrities, he may have come to terms with the fact that fame and fortune don't make someone happy.
No Reservations was great TV - travelling to exotic destinations, hanging out with chefs and sampling all kinds of street food good and bad. He made the cooking/travel genre fun.
Very sad, sometimes the inner demons win.
I didn't know him but I loved his exploration of different cultures thru food. I will miss him and his work. I hope he's finally at peace.
Anthony Bourdain was a global ambassador and a gifted writer who helped instill in me a love of travel. He will be missed.
He had a life envied by many and this goes to show that you never know what is going on in someone else's head. Today are more interconnected than ever, but the skin-deep interactions we have through our phones & the digital highlight reels we project can mask both mental health issues and a lack of true meaningful relationships.
The article mentions that he committed suicide while shooting Parts Unknown in France. This will affect many lives, not the least of which are all of the people working on the show. I hope CNN takes care of them financially.
A relevant but tangential point - Slate Star Codex just published an analysis that after controlling for guns, the US has one of the lowest suicide rates of the developed world[0]. That's not to say that mental health isn't the main issue, but rather that there are also practical policy steps that should be taken to limit the number of preventable suicides.
>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help
Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without a bunch of hand wringing from other people refusing to countenance the possibility that I am still of sound mind?
Living is a choice, just as death is. (apologies if this is distasteful, I'm mostly interested to hear responses)
I appreciate that you raised the question sincerely, but it's generic enough and baity enough that I detached it from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17264518 and marked it semi-off-topic.
> why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness?
There is a very strong relationship between suicide and mental illness. If someone decides to end their own life, it is overwhelmingly likely that they are suffering from some form of mental illness.
>Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate?
Most people who survive a suicide attempt do not ultimately end their own life. Most people who have suicidal thoughts eventually stop having those thoughts. If you think that you'd be better off dead, I don't think that you're in any way morally wrong, I just think that you're probably factually wrong. You might think that you want to die, but if you go on living, it is overwhelmingly likely that you'll change your mind. To use an old cliche, suicide is a permanent response to a temporary problem.
I see what you're getting at, but I think the reason that suicide is linked with mental illness is because it goes against our very nature as living beings.
If I recall correctly, a majority of people who have 'failed' suicide (for lack of a better term) have stated that they immediately regretted attempting once it hits the point of no return.
This is just an assumption, but I think the will to live greatly outweighs the desire to take your own life. Of course their are outliers (I'm thinking of Samurai Suicides performed in front of audiences) but I don't know if there's any resources that talk about their mental health.
If anyone as any counter points I'd love to hear them - but for the most part I think suicide stems from mental instability or an otherwise inevitable physical death (terminal illness, old age, etc).
One other reason it may be linked with mental health, is the fact that if mental illness is not a factor - what is driving these decisions? I can't imagine that people come to the logical 'master of my own existence' that you mention.
It's a very interesting subject, when you take the horror an tragedy out of it. Also curious what other species have high suicide rates, or if its a primarily human affliction (don't have time to dig around on this right now).
There is an excellent documentary called "The Bridge" about people committing suicide by jumping off of the golden gate bridge in SF. Given the height of the bridge, it takes 4 seconds before you hit the water, and some people survive it. They had interviews with people that survived it -- and they basically all said that as soon as they let go, they realized it was a mistake. That all of their problems were solvable, except for the one they just made.
I do recall one man who did not survive, who seemed at peace during the video of his fall -- he was one who I think perhaps did not regret the act, but was the extreme outlier in that regard. If you are 85 and dying of painful cancer, I can also see it being an act that makes sense, made to decide one's own fate. But MOST people seem to grow out of their suicidal phases, and realize it was the wrong choice, driven by bad thought patterns. In the same way that people try to help addicts or people with eating disorders try to obtain better thought patterns, suicidal ideation seems to me to be largely a broken thought pattern we should help people overcome, not an individual decision one should respect.
People seek to draw a link between suicide and mental illness because the drastic outcome of suicide stretches one's comfort with the notion of informed consent.
The widespread societal taboo against suicide supposes that no rational person free of undue pressures would consent to ending their own life, therefore anyone who commits suicide must have been pushed to do so by serious factors that impaired their ability to properly consent.
This line of thinking effectively re-defines 'mental illness' to be that unknown variable that pushes outwardly functional people towards a choice that surprised the observer.
I don't believe you are the master of your own existence. Did you decide what to eat this morning, or rather is it the product of your habits and cultural forces and family choices and genetically based preferences? IMO free will is an illusion, and this is part of the reason why stigmatizing mental illness is so pernicious. We say "get over it, everyone gets depressed" or we say "omg, I'm so OCD lol". Not really, though, these are complex neurobiological disorders that scientists don't understand well and doctors don't have great treatments for. If you're severely depressed or schizophrenic, your capacity to lead a normal life is vastly reduced, you can't even go through the daily rituals/motions that everyone else does. You become separate from society, and peoples' saying that you're rich, you're doing well, get over it: that makes it all feel worse. Add on top of that potential drug use, increasing suicide rates in society (we know they are contagious, it spreads like a virus), and of course the more advanced age of these recent celebrity suicides.
So, are severely mentally ill people truly capable of living normal lives? Are they capable of making clear, level-headed decisions? I highly doubt that they were truly masters of their own existence if they decided they'd rather stop existing than suffer more illness.
Do you really think Anthony Bourdain wanted to die and hurt the people who care about him? Suicide is what people do when they simply cannot go on any longer - this says nothing about whether they wish they could keep going or not.
I'd take it a step further and ask why we always consider depression, anxiety, drug abuse, etc. as an individual's "mental illness", when many of these illnesses seem to be inexorably linked to the broader societal sicknesses we find ourselves living under. Economics, politics, technology, cultural norms, community (or lack thereof), health and wellness; all of these things are directly or indirectly affecting the mental health of the population at large. Even if we double down on mental health treatment for individuals, it is ignoring the larger, more complicated issues that are likely at the root (of at least a significant contributor) of these problems.
And yes, I think it is a perfectly valid choice for someone to check out if that's what they want to do. Mental health or whatever aside, if you don't want to live anymore, for WHATEVER reason, I don't see why anybody else has the right to try to stop you.
Because in the overwhelming number of cases there is a direct link. The count of people who decide that "enough is enough" is dwarfed by all the people suffering from mental illness that see no other way out, but could get help if society as a whole was willing to give it.
I agree with the position that you are the boss of your own life. But I also believe that it is at the very least considerate to self-limit your freedoms to a point where they do not adversely affect the ones around you.
My conclusion for my suicide is "bad" is because it causes pain and suffering to the ones around you. I relate suicide to stress that cannot be managed. If you feel like you need to die, then you are completely free to do anything. So why not do that? Remove that stress, till you don't feel like that's the only answer.
I think we link it because, most of the time, it is linked to mental illness -- typically depression. It's not an issue of "rights" but of whether you are really functioning competently. Sure, there are cases where someone makes the decision to commit suicide because of a terrible terminal illness (e.g., bone cancer). But that is not the norm.
FWIW, I say this as someone who has had severe depression and been suicidal.
1. The universe is largely void and hostile to life.
2. Sure, there may be times where a person may rationally chose to die. That doesn’t negate the fragility and value of life for its sake. Two things can be true. Some people may have a rational reason to wish to end their lives, and some people who would end their lives would do much greater harm to themselves and loved ones than good.
3. It is my firm belief that we may use #1 to evaluate the worth and even ethicality of choices and actions. Those actions which solely promulgate life or enhance its existence are ethical. Those actions or choices which violate the former are unethical. Actions or choices which solely diminish the life or lives of others or outright end lives are unethical - unless that termination of life ends suffering larger than the benefits of life. That’s a very fine line.
If you ignore the feelings and needs of everyone around you, death is just another choice.
I’m not an expert on it, but there is a certain impulsiveness to it that suggests to me that it’s not just another choice. Terminally ill people often or maybe frequently get things in order and prepare things, almost going out of their way with limited time to take care of things for their loved ones. These things frequently take their loved ones by surprise and there aren’t exhaustive preparations.
This will be more inappropriate, but AB had a marriage dissolve because he had to travel 250+ days a year and be away from a wife and young child. As a husband and parent of two, I find that staggering, we aren’t talking about someone without financial resources that does whatever job they can to support their family, he probably didn’t need to work. To me, it’s not even a thought, I’d do a different job or somehow rearchitect my life to keep my family near. IMO, there was clearly some priority issues or something going on. If he had this supreme rationalism and simply chose to end things, where was that when he fathered a child that he didn’t spend time with? Or was this a new found clearity he discovered? Im not try to sound accusatory but I think there might be a lot of other differences in his life if this was a healthy and rational choice.
RIP Anthony and I hope his family and loved ones find peace and comfort.
I find it extremely distasteful, but this is an Internet forum and a fair question. Do not recommend bringing this up in casual conversation! This question will probably lead to ended friendships if you approach someone who has been suicidal in the past, or has lost someone to suicide.
Also it's pedantic in a really ignorant and dumb way, and not nearly as clever as you think it is.
There are examples of people taking their own life due to physical maladies which I can COMPLETELY understand, and choosing to end your own life kevorkian-style is understandable to most people: Robin Williams had dementia. His mind had basically completely gone before the end, his wife spoke of the rages and lack of understanding of what was happening around him.
But many people choose to end their own life when they are young, healthy, and in a pit of despair that they feel they will never escape. Depression is a mental illness which symptoms of hopelessness and suicidal thoughts. So there you go. That is why. Depression is a mental illness.
We as a society have deemed having no value of life, including your own, is aberrant behavior. I would argue that "deciding to commit suicide" for no other reason than you are tired of being alive, or want to "decide your own fate" is completely psychotic.
Also, saying "It's your choice" and doesn't affect anyone else is just insanely wrong. As I've grown older and lost people around more at a higher rate, it is ASTOUNDING the hole left behind when you lose a loved one.
I am in favor of a right to die, because I saw my mother struggle with cancer. What she went through seemed truly awful.
However, having a terminal disease is very different than having a temporary lapse in judgment about whether to continue living. Someone raising a child likely does not truly want to be gone from the Earth. We don’t know for sure, but with his known addiction history, this was likely an unintended consequence, the one he cannot take back.
Medically-assisted suicide is a thing with professional support and evaluations and guidance, in regions where it’s defined and legal. Unassisted suicide is usually assumed to be mental illness based on the circumstances — randomly in a hotel room during a filming does not read as “rationally premeditated after careful consideration and psychological evaluation” to most of us.
Mental illness is defined in terms of mental processes that interfere with your life. Suicide is the definition of a mental process that interferes with successfully living your life.
That being said, I agree with your point. One should be the master of their own existence from a certain viewpoint, but we aren't. Humans are social creatures and define our lives in terms of those relationships. Even if you are a solitary hermit, you define your life in relation to the people that aren't around. I'm not trying to be clever there.
I can see where suicide can be considered the most rational response given the right social or societal context. See any number of ritual suicide practices in human cultures.
Again, even the physician assisted suicide that we debate so often make sense in the context of maintaining some notion of dignity in one's familial or social group. When you add human suffering to that situation it becomes a moral imperative, I think. That's just me though.
Suicide is an extreme, profound, desperate, and undeniable act. It leaves a corpse, and corpses cannot readily be swept under rugs as with other vital statistics.
(Much the same holds for murder vs. other crime rates, though both may be influenced by trauma medicine advances. David Simon talks of this in The Audacity of Despair, on YouTube.)
For much this reason, suicide is seem as a definitive marker of individual, and social, dysfunction. It is the title and subject of Emil Durkheim's foundational work on sociology.
I understand this way of thinking. I think it is logical to die in a lot of scenarios, and that is why we don't call the right to end your life "suicide" in all cases, like when you have a terminal disease.
But consider this analogy. If "suicide" was a just a judgement, and not a temporary insanity, then people who came close to suicide wouldn't ALL glad that it did not happen.
You would have a significant portion of people who look back and say... I really wish I had taken my life back in 95', that was a really hard year. But that is so extremely rare, its easy to lump the majority of suicidal thoughts into the temporary delusions category.
In some cases people have been contemplating suicide for decades before they do it, which is a common sign of depression. But that is significantly different than wishing that they had done it in the past.
Here is at least one data point regarding a suicide that was probably not mentally ill: http://martin-manley.eprci.com - It's a fascinating story and first-hand account.
No, in many ways and cases you aren't. As comments below note, one of those ways is through mental health issues. While I do agree that people should ultimately have the right to choose, it's simply incorrect to think that it's a simple matter of rational choice. There's very good reason to believe that, in most cases of people seeking suicide, they are not of sound mind.
This idea that you are the perfect and complete "master of my own existence" is one of the most pernicious and persistent fallacies people hold.
Surely the mental anguish that drives someone to take their own life qualifies as a mental illness. We are not talking about someone who chose to die rather than continuing a painful fight against a terminal illness. Maybe it's rational to take your own life if you are suffering so deeply from depression. Maybe that's a choice we should respect. But that respect doesn't mean that the underlying suffering isn't an illness we should recognize as such and try to treat.
I suppose because it's much more common that it's someone dealing with a debilitating mental illness than a Hunter S. Thompson type who is just hitting the reset button because he's done. I don't get offended by much, especially if it's a question that comes from an honest place. Death is the only thing we all share, so I think it's natural to have a lot of questions about it.
Because it demonstrates a trade-off made for short term that causes long term suffering in others, especially loved ones. Dying does too, but if we make a reasonable effort to not die, then we are making a responsible effort to not hurt those who depend on us - if just due to having know us. It's promoting a generally bad fix, so should be looked down upon. Euthanasia is more benign I think.
I didn't say that it's only a result of mental illness, but lifelong depression is definitely a big factor.
Few living things who are physically healthy and with no history of suicide ideation just decide to die just because. Generally there's some underlying cause, whether it be a longterm plan to do so or some sudden stressor.
Suicide is inherently a selfish act, and I think that’s where the perception of it being “wrong” comes from.
Sure you have the right to decide your own fate, but you should consider that you affect other people. In taking your own life you’re also fucking up the life of everyone who cares about you, forcing them into a state of grief and possibly causing them to blame themselves for what was ultimately a selfish act on your part.
I remember watching Robin Williams perform ~2009. He was hilarious and positive on stage at Cobb. After the show he hung out with us and Bing Gordon (his friend). His entire demeanor changed. Unable to smile, look people in the eyes, and holding back tears. People thought he would be funny off stage but he just was extremely anxious and wanted to leave asap. Anyhow, I feel like people (esp. famous people) hide the their internal deadly struggle.
I always try to remember - more than half [1] of gun related deaths in the US are people taking their own gun and pointing it at their head then pulling the trigger. Who cares what side of the gun debate you are on.
The above link shows more than just half - 2/3 gun deaths in US are suicide - approx 20,000 out of 30,000 Fairly horrifying but does impact the whole gun control debate IMO.
I'm not sure you should tie Robin William's continual mental problems with his suicide. After he died, they discovered he had a neurodegenerative disease, and it was causing serious problems with his life (disorientation, etc). He never knew what was causing it, but he knew things were very wrong and getting worse. Had he not committed suicide, he wouldn't have had long to live anyway, and would have had a horrible existence.
He did have mental issues for much of his life, but in the end it was likely his physical condition and not his mental issues that led him to suicide.
It's not clear if he had this condition in 2009 - he might have, but we don't know.
Really, really horrible news. The anecdotal data is really starting to pile up in my mind- Chester Bennington, Chris Cornell, Kate Spade, Anthony Bourdain...
... suicide is all too common in our world, and some professions (especially doctors) are affected more than others.
All of the money and fame in the world cannot protect you from the depths of your mind.
I hope that anyone struggling with this affliction can know its ok to step away from everything they're doing, get a breath of fresh air, and know that it's ok for everything to go wrong in life.
All the money and fame in the world doesn't do much protecting at all: it can lock you in the depths of your mind. Imagine a situation where every interaction you have with other people is fawning or fraudulent. Where all day, every day, someone is either kissing your ass or wiping your ass. Nothing is genuine. Nothing can be trusted. Everyone wants to use you to their own ends.
Fame and the life it brings seems desirable, but there's ample evidence that would indicate otherwise.
If you think about it, it's no wonder so many famous people are depressed, dysfunctional, or disgusting - their self worth and ability to self-evaluate are completely distorted. And the pressure of maintaining that fame, that score that many believe determines how important you are to society, is crushing.
If you're not happy, not content, not satisfied with yourself when you're a "nobody", becoming a "somebody" won't change that. Whatever issues you brought to the table before you got fame and power won't be improved once fame and/or power is acquired. The Good Book says something along those lines a few thousand years ago:
"Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. - Luke 16:10
It's like wearing a heavy cloak around, after having done so for most of your life, day after day, year after year. If you're a proper adult, age-wise, all of the effort in the world doesn't guarantee that cloak will fall off one day. The idea that it's fixable doesn't play itself out in real life. I would posit that this is why riches and fame only temporarily relieve the weight of it.
this really hurt me, I'm usually not as affected by "high-profile suicides."
There's some terrible correlations beginning to surface, in my mind, with the psychiatric drugs taken by Robin Williams, Kate Spade, Chester Bennington, and Tim Bergling for example that seem to be the final push-over-the-edge for these folks - whose lives are full of options and [appear] far from hopeless.
Surely we can't judge how things really are, but can they truly be SO desperate?
I've seen people in terrible shape- unable to work, loss of body part(s), loss of wealth, loss of friends, loss of family, etc. and still carry on.
It seems, to me, mental illness is created as a result of these Big Pharma medicines. I don't believe sadness or unhappiness day to day are unhealthy, most people deal with not being 100% successful in life. There's always another day to work at it and try again to win.
When things become inexplicable is when there's some strange substance playing with the mind - in my opinion.
School shootings being in this category as well.
I'd love to see a study investigate the prescription medications used in all of these "high profile suicide" cases, results protected by First Amendment.
This comment betrays a remarkable ignorance of mental illness. There is, in fact, a link between the commencement of a course of antidepressants and suicide, but to claim that "...mental illness is created as a result of these Big Pharma medicines" is to ignore a tremendous body of research.
I enjoyed his show, he was a good narrator and storyteller, and he had an interesting perspective of the world.
However, it is important to remember that traveling around the world in planes is not a very ecological activity. So traveling as a way of living is better left to a few people.
piker|7 years ago
"I should’ve died in my 20s. I became successful in my 40s. I became a dad in my 50s. I feel like I’ve stolen a car — a really nice car — and I keep looking in the rearview mirror for flashing lights."
Rest in peace.
lurquer|7 years ago
If not, why would one immediately assume Bourdain was depressed?
ada1981|7 years ago
Psychosis, Schizophrenia, Biploar, Anxiety, Suicidal Depression, Panic Attacks.
It wasn’t until I changed my relationship to all emotions and then sought out a variety of support to safely go deeply into my experience that I was able to find relief.
1 session of MDMA therapy lifted a decade of suicidal thoughts; session 2 a year later largely freed me of anxiety and paranoia; combined with a NARM therapist to help me heal developmental and shock trauma, yoga, holotropic Breathwork and a loving stable romantic relationship. And a lot of grace.
No meds, no longer a prisoner, and my life is vibrant and alive and the past feels like nothing more than a straight jacket I wriggled out of.
The often unspoken truth is that Trauma (developmental, shock, generational) underpins most all mental health issues (save issues of malnutrition, poisoning,tumors and TBI).
This is on the radar of few practioners who instead offer very limited tools to suppress symptoms.
And because mental health is actually a context, folks typically are surrounded by others who don’t have a very deep capacity to honor our expeirences and would rather try to “cheer us up” or change what we feel. The actual need is to have people who help us feel more of what we feel (that leads to deeper relief).
The Suicidal Impulse is a an impulse for the pain of our default mode network to stop. When we have unprocessed traumas, we are in a state of fight or flight and this activation is painful. It also leads to addiction.
Ego (default mode network) death and rebirth is possible without killing the body. It requires a safe context to release the old trauma and form new pathways in the incresed plasticity.
Know that there are actual solutions, it’s not your fault, and there are people here to help — but you will need to take responsibility for healing this as our current society is doing a terrible job thus far.
monkeynotes|7 years ago
aklemm|7 years ago
_dj8y|7 years ago
billman|7 years ago
warent|7 years ago
Anthony was inspirational to me in part because, among many reasons, though he lived his life in a very unusual way he was still successful and always adventurous.
The world has suffered a great loss today.
leeter|7 years ago
arwhatever|7 years ago
tcbawo|7 years ago
sbenitoj|7 years ago
For anyone who has struggled with depression or severe anxiety, if you haven’t read the book The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk, I encourage you to read it as soon as possible — it’s one of the best, most approachable, resources out there to understand not only many of the roots of depression, but many strategies to actually overcome it (it’s very different from traditional talk therapy, which is mostly focused on getting people to cope with their past trauma rather than resolve it).
https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/01...
mindgam3|7 years ago
So many of the things we call "diseases" can be traced to trauma. "Mental injury" may be a more useful construct than "mental illness". In the same way that your body can heal from a femur fracture, your psyche can heal from a trauma-induced mind fracture.
dgzl|7 years ago
betterworldb|7 years ago
njoro|7 years ago
bevinahally|7 years ago
Anthony changed the way that I view the world and inspired me to explore the world's rich tapestry of life. We have lost someone who truly was a world citizen who built the culture that "different" could be good.
The man's struggles through addiction and journey to peak physical fitness in his late 50s is nothing short of inspiring. I hope that he is immortalized through his work.
donatj|7 years ago
bootsz|7 years ago
curveship|7 years ago
Sad news.
organicmultiloc|7 years ago
beenBoutIT|7 years ago
acjohnson55|7 years ago
If you're in a dark place, please, please consider reaching out for help.
I love this community. We gotta look out for each other y'all.
skellera|7 years ago
But that’s just me. I didn’t climb anywhere near the same heights as he did which it why it made me think that. I hope it’s something more positive (as it could be for something like this).
Edit: Just to add, this death affected me so much more than any other celebrity. I look up to him so much for turning his life around and turning it into what it is. I forget which episode of his newer show it was but he goes out hunting with the guy and shoots a... deer/elk/something. He tells the guy it’s the healthiest he’s ever been. You could tell how much it meant to him to be healthy and be able to do the hike they did.
Don’t know why it stood out so much but I was so happy for him. It encouraged me to keep going.
bernardino|7 years ago
Otherwise, somehow, and I may be wrong, I think suicide might be deep rooted to our toxic: media, culture, attachments, conditioning, etc. It does sound a bit wrong to say. It might because I’m in my early twenties and still live with my parents and have lots of time to think but I’m becoming more aware of how, maybe, be of the world not in the world is so important. It seems like escapism but again, these days: I’m not reading the news as much or partaking in entertainment especially the internet, I’m spending more time alone in solitude, watching the evening sky, I’m going on walks, I’m deciding what has meaning and what does not, I’m just living but with no fuss, noise, or ego. Some may think it’s a boring way to live but it may be a true way to live, I think. It’s almost as I live in my own bubble and I’m not sure if that’s a right thing to do or not.
To the point, suicide and depression are terrible and I think, in modern day, we have to have a strong inner self to conquer it or else we get sucked in. It also reminds me of Thoreau’s Walden or Wallace’s understanding of American culture.
FireBeyond|7 years ago
fiblye|7 years ago
>Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016.
I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. With a growing list of famous, financially successful people committing suicide, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help. Or at least be able to talk to their friends/family when they first notice problems instead of hiding it until it's too late.
When people first start having these sorts of thoughts and even hint at it to other people, the whole "What are you depressed about? Your life is good" response so many people give only makes it worse, and hopefully it's beginning to go away. Depression has nothing to do with how "good" your life is on paper.
smolder|7 years ago
The illness is not all in the heads of the people killing themselves.
specialist|7 years ago
I recently initiated a suicide intervention for a loved one.
I would like to know what would make it better. Or at least what not to do.
I am relentlessly optimistic (cancer survivor, a learned skill). I definitely feel like my efforts here ("talking someone off the ledge") had mixed results at best. Good stuff for other cancer victims. Not so good for depression, suicidal tendencies.
Sure, I took careful notes of conversations with the various care providers, professionals. But I don't feel any better equipped to handle the next flare up.
PS- RIP Anthony Bourdain. Kitchen Confidential deeply influenced me. My first exposure to his ideas, worldview was a "Trial By Fire" profile on his management style in HBR (?). I loved how he accepted everyone to work in his kitchen, so long as they didn't miss a shift. How it was his crew versus the world, every night.
georgewsinger|7 years ago
> I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude.
Not trolling: wouldn't this provide (weak, but nevertheless some) evidence that a "man up" sort of attitude was more effective at combating suicide than our attitude towards it now?
AnIdiotOnTheNet|7 years ago
Personally, I don't really feel the "here's the suicide prevention hotline's number", "you should talk to someone", or "you should see a doctor" lines, which seem to be replacing that, are any better.
weliketocode|7 years ago
I'd say a grew up in a relatively conservative area, but throughout my entire life, society has recognized the seriousness of suicide and mental health issues.
blueprint|7 years ago
Says who? Maybe if we put everything on that paper the scale would visibly tip but it may be the case that if we could perceive those things as they are such that they could be written down it would exclude the problem's sticking power.
By the way we should also confirm it was really depression.
aaron695|7 years ago
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beat|7 years ago
"'Fuck you,' he says. 'You don't even cook. You're not one of us anymore.' Far from being offended (although I am hurt), I want to give him a big hug. Another drink or two and I just might.
I don't cook. I'm not a chef. The chefs and cooks who are better than I used to be - better than I ever was - know this and don't need to say it. They certainly don't need to say it to my face, like this kid, pressing me up against the bar now with the force of his rage and hurt. He will channel those feelings, appropriately, into a demand that I do a shot of tequila with him. Or two.
Which is a relatively friendly and diplomatic solution to an awkward situation."
- Anthony Bourdain, "Medium Raw" (I opened to a random page)
Another great artist lost to suicide. Anthony Bourdain reinvented food writing with his book "Kitchen Confidential", injecting a brutal honesty and punk rock ethos into the stuffy world of restaurant reviews and travelogues. He continued writing with more terrific work like "Medium Raw" and "Nasty Bits". It's not just that his writing was full of practical advice for diners (never eat fish on mondays, never eat mussels, bread is recycled, etc)... it's that he was brutally honest about himself, about his struggles with depression and drug addiction. If you read his books, his suicide should come as no surprise.
He went on to reinvent food television with "No Reservations", a travelogue show that celebrated highbrow and lowbrow in equal measure, that put third world street food vendors in the same breath with Michelin-starred chefs, that ate the weird stuff not because it was weird, but because it was a new experience. From there, he went to "Parts Unknown" on CNN, elevating his work's already broad international beat to a more explicitly political level, visiting little-known and often dangerous places such as Libya and Myanmar, celebrating the joy and creativity people took in their food, even in the poorest, most oppressed places on Earth. He was a cultural ambassador for all of humanity, the likes of which had never been seen before.
And then there was that time that !Kung bushmen in Namibia punked him into eating a warthog's asshole by convincing him that it was their finest and most exclusive culinary delicacy. And then laughed their asses off at him. And he ran that on tv.
I'm going to miss him so much.
abalone|7 years ago
[1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7bw89a/comedy-545-v17n10
[2] https://robdelaney.tumblr.com/post/414007899/on-depression-g...
[3] https://www.amazon.com/Rob-Delaney-Warrior-Yardstick-Cabbage...
the6threplicant|7 years ago
I read Kitchen Confidential when it came out. A hge fan and followed him ever since.
Sympathy goes out to his young daughter and his friends and family.
jderick|7 years ago
http://www.mces.org/pages/suicide_fact_alcohol.php
geezerjay|7 years ago
dewey|7 years ago
rickyspanish|7 years ago
emptyfile|7 years ago
Most people would tell me his life is their dream.
Rest in peace.
elliottcarlson|7 years ago
BY Edwin Arlington Robinson
JshWright|7 years ago
afishisafish|7 years ago
Still an incredible charismatic and passionate person, fantastic writer too.
Cheers Anthony
the6threplicant|7 years ago
101km|7 years ago
I suspect it is the latter, but I don't have the heart to google it.
Every Robin Williams, Chris Cornell, Anthony Bourdain no doubt causes a bit of a ripple of none famous suicides and thus this news is doubly sad.
spooneybarger|7 years ago
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/suicide-rates-are...
pilsetnieks|7 years ago
hi41|7 years ago
cubano|7 years ago
The second is that we were both functional heroin addicts for some part of our professional lives.
His tell-all book "Kitchen Confidential" hit home to me like a 20-oz T-bone and a good bottle of red. His unafraid discussions of his addictions were a breath of fresh air in the otherwise stultified environment of talking-about-work.
There is little doubt in my mind that his struggles with addiction are related to the suicide, at some perhaps never to be known level.
He entertained the shit outta me, so he will be missed...cheers to you Anthony we hardly knew you.
readhn|7 years ago
This. Sucks.
frankwiles|7 years ago
Everyone needs to know it’s ok to not be ok.
obelix_|7 years ago
If someone is struggling in the deep sea, dive in to help only if you have experience swimming in the deep sea. This stuff is not simple and can have lifelong negative effects on both parties if done wrong.
cautionarytale|7 years ago
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nefasti|7 years ago
DamnInteresting|7 years ago
For creative people with an audience, there's this expectation from the audience that every thing you release to the world will be as good or better than what you did before, and that you will produce this brilliance on a reasonably consistent schedule. Any slip in quality (say, from experimenting with something new) or any delay in delivery, and the toxic parts of your audience will hurl their bile. You're labeled a burnout, or you're losing your edge. The people who didn't like your work in the first place openly relish your stumble.
Some creatives like to pretend that these critiques don't sting, and maybe some fortunate souls truly are immune. But it's human nature to build our self-image based on feedback from others, and a good self image can be essential for survival.
I feel like some creatives such as Bourdain try to meet the demands of the public, and keep upping their game and pushing, but that can't go on forever. Exhaustion, harsh self-criticism, and a sense of responsibility to one's audience combine into a caustic soup, and it shrivels the soul. One is expected to be increasingly brilliant even as one's energy diminishes to the effects of burnout. Quitting will just invite more cries of "failure!" It's unsustainable, and sometimes the part that breaks is the willingness to continue to bear it.
To any creative people suffering from this cycle, I think the best remedy is to make a "temporary" lateral move if you can. Move out of the spotlight and lend your skill to up-and-comers for a while. It's hard to get mad at that. And there's an odd comfort in knowing that you never have to go back, but the option is there when/if you're ready.
pjmorris|7 years ago
southphillyman|7 years ago
codingdave|7 years ago
mmiliauskas|7 years ago
ninjamayo|7 years ago
meko|7 years ago
drukenemo|7 years ago
xvf22|7 years ago
I've had friends take the same way out so this is bringing up some awful memories. The demons within are a powerful force no matter how good things seem to be going.
johncolton|7 years ago
It's so sad that he could not find another solution to defeat his demons.
ryan606|7 years ago
aloukissas|7 years ago
AIX2ESXI|7 years ago
Take care of yourselves my fellow techies. The brightest of us sometimes are consumed by the blackest abyss. Condolences to all who were impacted by his life.
nautilus12|7 years ago
readhn|7 years ago
There is a sad dark thread going through all of them.. dark humor, his comments on life, interactions with other people etc. She time He made it interesting and very real. The world is not all roses and I think that's what he tried to show.
xapata|7 years ago
Like many celebrities, he may have come to terms with the fact that fame and fortune don't make someone happy.
post_break|7 years ago
Zealotux|7 years ago
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jolesf|7 years ago
unknown|7 years ago
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camdenreslink|7 years ago
petecox|7 years ago
No Reservations was great TV - travelling to exotic destinations, hanging out with chefs and sampling all kinds of street food good and bad. He made the cooking/travel genre fun.
WheelsAtLarge|7 years ago
Lotus123|7 years ago
gringoDan|7 years ago
He had a life envied by many and this goes to show that you never know what is going on in someone else's head. Today are more interconnected than ever, but the skin-deep interactions we have through our phones & the digital highlight reels we project can mask both mental health issues and a lack of true meaningful relationships.
The article mentions that he committed suicide while shooting Parts Unknown in France. This will affect many lives, not the least of which are all of the people working on the show. I hope CNN takes care of them financially.
A relevant but tangential point - Slate Star Codex just published an analysis that after controlling for guns, the US has one of the lowest suicide rates of the developed world[0]. That's not to say that mental health isn't the main issue, but rather that there are also practical policy steps that should be taken to limit the number of preventable suicides.
[0] http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/05/31/in-search-of-missing-us...
ianai|7 years ago
linsomniac|7 years ago
Ntrails|7 years ago
Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without a bunch of hand wringing from other people refusing to countenance the possibility that I am still of sound mind?
Living is a choice, just as death is. (apologies if this is distasteful, I'm mostly interested to hear responses)
dang|7 years ago
jdietrich|7 years ago
There is a very strong relationship between suicide and mental illness. If someone decides to end their own life, it is overwhelmingly likely that they are suffering from some form of mental illness.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12701661
>Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate?
Most people who survive a suicide attempt do not ultimately end their own life. Most people who have suicidal thoughts eventually stop having those thoughts. If you think that you'd be better off dead, I don't think that you're in any way morally wrong, I just think that you're probably factually wrong. You might think that you want to die, but if you go on living, it is overwhelmingly likely that you'll change your mind. To use an old cliche, suicide is a permanent response to a temporary problem.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0004867060117274...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016503271...
protonimitate|7 years ago
If I recall correctly, a majority of people who have 'failed' suicide (for lack of a better term) have stated that they immediately regretted attempting once it hits the point of no return.
This is just an assumption, but I think the will to live greatly outweighs the desire to take your own life. Of course their are outliers (I'm thinking of Samurai Suicides performed in front of audiences) but I don't know if there's any resources that talk about their mental health.
If anyone as any counter points I'd love to hear them - but for the most part I think suicide stems from mental instability or an otherwise inevitable physical death (terminal illness, old age, etc).
One other reason it may be linked with mental health, is the fact that if mental illness is not a factor - what is driving these decisions? I can't imagine that people come to the logical 'master of my own existence' that you mention.
It's a very interesting subject, when you take the horror an tragedy out of it. Also curious what other species have high suicide rates, or if its a primarily human affliction (don't have time to dig around on this right now).
berberous|7 years ago
I do recall one man who did not survive, who seemed at peace during the video of his fall -- he was one who I think perhaps did not regret the act, but was the extreme outlier in that regard. If you are 85 and dying of painful cancer, I can also see it being an act that makes sense, made to decide one's own fate. But MOST people seem to grow out of their suicidal phases, and realize it was the wrong choice, driven by bad thought patterns. In the same way that people try to help addicts or people with eating disorders try to obtain better thought patterns, suicidal ideation seems to me to be largely a broken thought pattern we should help people overcome, not an individual decision one should respect.
niftich|7 years ago
The widespread societal taboo against suicide supposes that no rational person free of undue pressures would consent to ending their own life, therefore anyone who commits suicide must have been pushed to do so by serious factors that impaired their ability to properly consent.
This line of thinking effectively re-defines 'mental illness' to be that unknown variable that pushes outwardly functional people towards a choice that surprised the observer.
WhompingWindows|7 years ago
So, are severely mentally ill people truly capable of living normal lives? Are they capable of making clear, level-headed decisions? I highly doubt that they were truly masters of their own existence if they decided they'd rather stop existing than suffer more illness.
jm__87|7 years ago
funkjunky|7 years ago
And yes, I think it is a perfectly valid choice for someone to check out if that's what they want to do. Mental health or whatever aside, if you don't want to live anymore, for WHATEVER reason, I don't see why anybody else has the right to try to stop you.
sgift|7 years ago
oldsklgdfth|7 years ago
My conclusion for my suicide is "bad" is because it causes pain and suffering to the ones around you. I relate suicide to stress that cannot be managed. If you feel like you need to die, then you are completely free to do anything. So why not do that? Remove that stress, till you don't feel like that's the only answer.
adamc|7 years ago
FWIW, I say this as someone who has had severe depression and been suicidal.
ianai|7 years ago
2. Sure, there may be times where a person may rationally chose to die. That doesn’t negate the fragility and value of life for its sake. Two things can be true. Some people may have a rational reason to wish to end their lives, and some people who would end their lives would do much greater harm to themselves and loved ones than good.
3. It is my firm belief that we may use #1 to evaluate the worth and even ethicality of choices and actions. Those actions which solely promulgate life or enhance its existence are ethical. Those actions or choices which violate the former are unethical. Actions or choices which solely diminish the life or lives of others or outright end lives are unethical - unless that termination of life ends suffering larger than the benefits of life. That’s a very fine line.
TheCondor|7 years ago
I’m not an expert on it, but there is a certain impulsiveness to it that suggests to me that it’s not just another choice. Terminally ill people often or maybe frequently get things in order and prepare things, almost going out of their way with limited time to take care of things for their loved ones. These things frequently take their loved ones by surprise and there aren’t exhaustive preparations.
This will be more inappropriate, but AB had a marriage dissolve because he had to travel 250+ days a year and be away from a wife and young child. As a husband and parent of two, I find that staggering, we aren’t talking about someone without financial resources that does whatever job they can to support their family, he probably didn’t need to work. To me, it’s not even a thought, I’d do a different job or somehow rearchitect my life to keep my family near. IMO, there was clearly some priority issues or something going on. If he had this supreme rationalism and simply chose to end things, where was that when he fathered a child that he didn’t spend time with? Or was this a new found clearity he discovered? Im not try to sound accusatory but I think there might be a lot of other differences in his life if this was a healthy and rational choice.
RIP Anthony and I hope his family and loved ones find peace and comfort.
p3llin0r3|7 years ago
Also it's pedantic in a really ignorant and dumb way, and not nearly as clever as you think it is.
There are examples of people taking their own life due to physical maladies which I can COMPLETELY understand, and choosing to end your own life kevorkian-style is understandable to most people: Robin Williams had dementia. His mind had basically completely gone before the end, his wife spoke of the rages and lack of understanding of what was happening around him.
But many people choose to end their own life when they are young, healthy, and in a pit of despair that they feel they will never escape. Depression is a mental illness which symptoms of hopelessness and suicidal thoughts. So there you go. That is why. Depression is a mental illness.
We as a society have deemed having no value of life, including your own, is aberrant behavior. I would argue that "deciding to commit suicide" for no other reason than you are tired of being alive, or want to "decide your own fate" is completely psychotic.
Also, saying "It's your choice" and doesn't affect anyone else is just insanely wrong. As I've grown older and lost people around more at a higher rate, it is ASTOUNDING the hole left behind when you lose a loved one.
karmelapple|7 years ago
I am in favor of a right to die, because I saw my mother struggle with cancer. What she went through seemed truly awful.
However, having a terminal disease is very different than having a temporary lapse in judgment about whether to continue living. Someone raising a child likely does not truly want to be gone from the Earth. We don’t know for sure, but with his known addiction history, this was likely an unintended consequence, the one he cannot take back.
floatingatoll|7 years ago
youdontknowtho|7 years ago
That being said, I agree with your point. One should be the master of their own existence from a certain viewpoint, but we aren't. Humans are social creatures and define our lives in terms of those relationships. Even if you are a solitary hermit, you define your life in relation to the people that aren't around. I'm not trying to be clever there.
I can see where suicide can be considered the most rational response given the right social or societal context. See any number of ritual suicide practices in human cultures.
Again, even the physician assisted suicide that we debate so often make sense in the context of maintaining some notion of dignity in one's familial or social group. When you add human suffering to that situation it becomes a moral imperative, I think. That's just me though.
dredmorbius|7 years ago
(Much the same holds for murder vs. other crime rates, though both may be influenced by trauma medicine advances. David Simon talks of this in The Audacity of Despair, on YouTube.)
For much this reason, suicide is seem as a definitive marker of individual, and social, dysfunction. It is the title and subject of Emil Durkheim's foundational work on sociology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_(book)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Émile_Durkheim
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nRt46W3k-qw
ghostbrainalpha|7 years ago
But consider this analogy. If "suicide" was a just a judgement, and not a temporary insanity, then people who came close to suicide wouldn't ALL glad that it did not happen.
You would have a significant portion of people who look back and say... I really wish I had taken my life back in 95', that was a really hard year. But that is so extremely rare, its easy to lump the majority of suicidal thoughts into the temporary delusions category.
In some cases people have been contemplating suicide for decades before they do it, which is a common sign of depression. But that is significantly different than wishing that they had done it in the past.
lolsal|7 years ago
unknown|7 years ago
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Sangermaine|7 years ago
No, in many ways and cases you aren't. As comments below note, one of those ways is through mental health issues. While I do agree that people should ultimately have the right to choose, it's simply incorrect to think that it's a simple matter of rational choice. There's very good reason to believe that, in most cases of people seeking suicide, they are not of sound mind.
This idea that you are the perfect and complete "master of my own existence" is one of the most pernicious and persistent fallacies people hold.
stult|7 years ago
Pigo|7 years ago
Maybestring|7 years ago
Because suicide is almost always preceded by years of mental health problems.
pokemongoaway|7 years ago
alexhutcheson|7 years ago
fiblye|7 years ago
Few living things who are physically healthy and with no history of suicide ideation just decide to die just because. Generally there's some underlying cause, whether it be a longterm plan to do so or some sudden stressor.
chatmasta|7 years ago
Sure you have the right to decide your own fate, but you should consider that you affect other people. In taking your own life you’re also fucking up the life of everyone who cares about you, forcing them into a state of grief and possibly causing them to blame themselves for what was ultimately a selfish act on your part.
eurticket|7 years ago
tbiteteitb|7 years ago
dominotw|7 years ago
Not really, humans live in societies. Your existence is not purely yours. Maybe it applies to Gaint Pandas that spend all of their lives in solitude.
ransom1538|7 years ago
I always try to remember - more than half [1] of gun related deaths in the US are people taking their own gun and pointing it at their head then pulling the trigger. Who cares what side of the gun debate you are on.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta...
adamc|7 years ago
lifeisstillgood|7 years ago
BeetleB|7 years ago
He did have mental issues for much of his life, but in the end it was likely his physical condition and not his mental issues that led him to suicide.
It's not clear if he had this condition in 2009 - he might have, but we don't know.
aaron695|7 years ago
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ataturk|7 years ago
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tudelo|7 years ago
anoncoward111|7 years ago
... suicide is all too common in our world, and some professions (especially doctors) are affected more than others.
All of the money and fame in the world cannot protect you from the depths of your mind.
I hope that anyone struggling with this affliction can know its ok to step away from everything they're doing, get a breath of fresh air, and know that it's ok for everything to go wrong in life.
Your life is always still valuable and fixable.
trentnix|7 years ago
Fame and the life it brings seems desirable, but there's ample evidence that would indicate otherwise.
If you think about it, it's no wonder so many famous people are depressed, dysfunctional, or disgusting - their self worth and ability to self-evaluate are completely distorted. And the pressure of maintaining that fame, that score that many believe determines how important you are to society, is crushing.
If you're not happy, not content, not satisfied with yourself when you're a "nobody", becoming a "somebody" won't change that. Whatever issues you brought to the table before you got fame and power won't be improved once fame and/or power is acquired. The Good Book says something along those lines a few thousand years ago:
"Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. - Luke 16:10
DanBC|7 years ago
Doctors don't have higher rates of death by suicide.
I think female doctors do have a higher rate of death by suicide than women in general.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm
pitt1980|7 years ago
and those challenges are usually poorly understood
personlurking|7 years ago
It's like wearing a heavy cloak around, after having done so for most of your life, day after day, year after year. If you're a proper adult, age-wise, all of the effort in the world doesn't guarantee that cloak will fall off one day. The idea that it's fixable doesn't play itself out in real life. I would posit that this is why riches and fame only temporarily relieve the weight of it.
yread|7 years ago
digianarchist|7 years ago
throwaway435388|7 years ago
anonbit|7 years ago
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smn1234|7 years ago
There's some terrible correlations beginning to surface, in my mind, with the psychiatric drugs taken by Robin Williams, Kate Spade, Chester Bennington, and Tim Bergling for example that seem to be the final push-over-the-edge for these folks - whose lives are full of options and [appear] far from hopeless. Surely we can't judge how things really are, but can they truly be SO desperate? I've seen people in terrible shape- unable to work, loss of body part(s), loss of wealth, loss of friends, loss of family, etc. and still carry on.
It seems, to me, mental illness is created as a result of these Big Pharma medicines. I don't believe sadness or unhappiness day to day are unhealthy, most people deal with not being 100% successful in life. There's always another day to work at it and try again to win.
When things become inexplicable is when there's some strange substance playing with the mind - in my opinion. School shootings being in this category as well.
I'd love to see a study investigate the prescription medications used in all of these "high profile suicide" cases, results protected by First Amendment.
sleazy_b|7 years ago
Out of curiosity, how do you feel about vaccines?
anonbit|7 years ago
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spraak|7 years ago
It seems like Trump is incapable of saying anything with heartfelt sincerity.
partycoder|7 years ago
However, it is important to remember that traveling around the world in planes is not a very ecological activity. So traveling as a way of living is better left to a few people.
seattle_spring|7 years ago
ButterflyWar|7 years ago
I ask because Anthony's wife is one of Harvey Weinstein's accusers.
https://archive.li/rxIHn
zeeembao|7 years ago
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oblong|7 years ago
nyae|7 years ago
This news is not relevant to the content discussed hacker news and doesn't belong here. This is not Reddit.