Lately, all this media attention to psychedelics reminds me of this Terence McKenna quote:
"[W]hy this[psychedelics] is not four-inch headlines on every newspaper on the planet I cannot understand because I don’t know what news you were waiting for, but this is the news that I was waiting for. It’s an incredible challenge to human understanding to try and make sense of this."
"[W]hy this[psychedelics] is not four-inch headlines on every newspaper on the planet"
Psychedelics might reveal to you that the neat little reality that you thought you had all figured out is a lot stranger and different from from what you thought it was, that your understanding of it might be all wrong, and that your place in it might not be all that cozy and secure. The experience could put everything in to question for you.
A lot of people feel threatened by that, so they try to push it away, lock it up, turn it off, or dismiss it.
Contrast that reaction to that in some other societies with a long tradition of psychedelic use. Psychedelic experiences there usually confirm the world view of the society, and tend to be very positive and accepted.
I could see this seriously being a net positive in the care of people say dying from cancer, depression from paralysis etc. Not all of us can lift weights or simply go for a walk, but our minds yearn to be free.
Based my reading of that, what these researchers are doing is not prescribing psychedelics to patients with mental disorders and giving the whole "take one time a day with food". What these researchers are finding is that the drugs can be very effective in a therapeutic setting with a guide (trained therapist or otherwise) to coach and conform the experience to reach a goal. In other words to those familiar with these drugs, set and setting. That is, mindset and surroundings are at least as important as the drug itself to achieving anything. Without that, it's just a drug experience. This is very unique compared to the drugs we're used to.
No medication will ever be a miracle drug, and most drugs show a significant decline in effectiveness once they're out of small trials and methods have standardized. However, any drug or therapy that sees orders of magnitude of improvement over existing drugs and therapies is promising and not worth dismissing simply because of a moral panic from the 60s or the Puritan ideals of our Western culture. Given time and the leeway to experiment, hopefully we will find uses for this class of drugs that have gone shunned for decades for no reason other than someone's moral qualms.
The trouble is that talk therapy is already too expensive for most patients, and unless you plan to have people tripping with a therapist who is a complete stranger (not advised!) you're going to need to charge for some preliminary sessions. If a typical therapist charges $100 per hour -- and that's optimistic, in fact I've never paid less than $125 -- then the cost of treatment quickly runs into four figures.
That's already more expensive than a year on SSRIs, as crazy as that might sound. Human interaction is shockingly expensive.
The headline of the article is "Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study" So it appears that research into psychadelics is not blocked! The substances in question are classified as research chemicals meaning that scientists are indeed allowed to perform research on them.
That is precisely correct. The current framework has already destroyed countless lives, targeted minority populations disproportionately, and enriched drug companies peddling opiates (which are much much worse than recreational marijuana).
I've had great experiences with LSD, experiences that may have even changed my trajectory in life.
That being said I would never recommend LSD to someone undergoing serious mental health issues. IMO not safe at all, you can really end up in a bad place.
I'm very excited to see the results of this study [1], testing the effects of a one-time dose of psilocybin (magic mushrooms) on a sample size of 400+ suffering from treatment-resistant depression.
The podcast episode referenced in the article is also well-worth listening to. They talk about the current state of the research, the regulatory process, getting funding, etc.
I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sense of the word possible. Anecdotally, the people I personally know who have tried psychedelics (maybe 6 or 7 people, all who did no know one another) seem to have a weird mental frailty to them, where because their ego disappeared(?) briefly and psychedelics were allowing mental connections that wouldn’t have arisen without psychedelics, they begin to question everything, almost like a rebuilding of their fundamental axioms from scratch. There’s also a strange fervor for others to try it, even from people who have had bad trips.
Joe Rogan had Michael Pollan on recently[0], who wrote The Omnivores Dilemma and a new book How To Change Your Mind[1] which talks about the benefits of hallucinogens. They also briefly talk about the psychotic breaks some people will experience as a result of widespread use and shrug it off like it’ll be fine. Aldous Huxley wrote a book about his use of mescaline called Doors of Perception[2] which felt almost unintelligible and very strange to me as a person who has not (and will not, as my mental health is great but I’m certain I’m at risk of a psychotic break from hallucinogens due to family history) done psychedelics.
If it helps, here are a couple of things that you might consider:
- you likely know a lot of people who actively or in the past were experimenting with psychedelics, but you don't know that you know them because it is socially taboo and their experiences aren't super relavent to how you are interacting with them
- if you can accept that idea, then you might also consider that given a larger population of people who've tried it with few ill effects your anecdotal sample might not be an accurate representation of the psychedelic experience.
That second point would reconcile the "strange fervor for others to try it, even from people who have had bad trips."
There are indeed plenty of people mental health issues floating around, and while it's true that you may or may not know if these drugs will trigger a larger episode, that kind of life altering aspect of psychedelics not very common in my experience as a person who knows hundreds of people who have worked or played with these substances.
Those ideas are also based in my anecdotal experince, and perhaps it comes from a willingness to question some "fundamental axioms from scratch", but at the same time maybe that's a) not always a bad thing to do from time to time, and b) if your fundamental axioms are good there is no reason that you won't come back to them.
I have permanent visual disturbances and suffered long-term panic attacks and anxiety as a result of psychedelic use. Things got better over time, but not completely back to normal. I'm not advocating for the continuation of our current legal strategy, but I feel like these drugs need to come with strong cultural wisdom about their appropriate use and potential for abuse.
Anyone who's been in a psychedelic community for long(stoners, deadheads, etc) knows at least a few people who have been temporarily(1 day - 1 year) or permanently fried from having experienced one or many trips. I feel like there is often a backlash against our regressive legal approach which tends to accentuate the positives and diminish the negatives but really we need information. These drugs can permanently change your personality in some ways that will generally not be seen as positive. Yes, they can have many good effects but that comes with a small risk of extreme side effects.
How to not worry? Relax. Keep the body at peace. Be simple. Stay in the heart (stay with how you're feeling, not just with what you're seeing/experiencing). Let go. You cannot lose yourself because you are always yourself. Be grateful for the incredibly valuable experience you're having, even if it's difficult.
> I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances.
I honestly don't think we have the capacity to test existing psychiatric medication to the extent that we can provably demonstrate that over the long term, psychiatric medication + negligence (or simply, variance - controlled lab conditions versus real world) in mental health care is not a direct cause (more nicely, a contributory factor) of psychotic breaks for patients.
So yes, it's a risk, but it's not one that doesn't currently exist with what we do now.
>"mental frailty...they begin to question everything"
As opposed to blindly "believe everything"? I would say the ability to question everything is evidence of a strong independent adult mind. The ability to just believe everything you are told isn't really "frail" (which I associate with old age and wisdom), but still weak in a childlike sense.
So you haven't done it, you have no studies to back this idea, but you just assume it's going to be a problem somehow..
So-called "bad trips" can be tremendously beneficial afterwards. They're "bad" because you get into the kind of deep, uncomfortable introspection that most people would want to avoid naturally. You learn things about yourself and the world that you probably wouldn't have wanted to know. That doesn't mean that you're going to go crazy afterwards. A lot of people come out better on the other side.
I am not sure about the percentage affected or what the preconditions have to be, or what other measures to detect them are, but personally I never tried psychedelics recreationaly due to their extremely long duration of effect.
I know there is a good argument about setting, mindset and support being the relevant factors, but the possibility of multiple hour horror trips always made me think again. And again. Which in itself is a huge problem for people who get complications because of that fear.
There are some drugs who work similar to an "allergy test". Salvia divinorum for example has an extremely short duration of effect. A few minutes (<10) in comparison to the same amount of hours. With proper supervision the potential to detect people at danger without lasting complications looks extremely promising to me. Sadly I dont think anyone will care for such safety measures as long as the whole benefit of psychedelic drugs is illegal at the moment.
The general consensus is that this is an extremely small portion of the population, and that psychedelic use is only typically a premature trigger for a preexisting condition rather than a prime cause for these types of mental issues.
As a person who has been to psychedelic hell, I can say a nice part about it is that it ends. Having people around you to help you assimilate complicated experiences is key. If you're on the edge of a manic episode, it can definitely be a catalyst, and I've seen difficult things come of it but sometimes difficult things are manifestations of things we need to deal with.
The benefits of responsible psychedelic usage greatly outweigh the risks. I haven't seen any evidence that permanent psychosis after psychedelic usage is statistically significant compared to psychosis in the general population. Honestly, riding your bike to work is more dangerous.
Something that's hard to quantify (because it's been illegal to study) is that people who use/abuse psychs before slipping into a permanent psychosis may have been on a manic upswing that led to the risky usage of the drugs. I've seen that happen to people in hypo mania with weed, alcohol, shopping, and the greatest offender and most predictable, cocaine. This can lead to PTSD and further self medication that can become a race condition that lasts a lifetime. The fear, shame, and personal loss can be crushing without the support to handle it.
Permanent psychosis or schizophrenia are so poorly defined. One of the hallmarks of schizophrenia is that it doesn't get better. So if you had an episode and they diagnose you then it does go away, well they guess you didn't have it. The more modern thinking is that schizophrenia doesn't exist[1]. There are so many factors that lead into an unmanageable mental state, not the least of which is our bizarre modern environment. IMO it's a miracle most of us are able to pass as sane well enough to keep the trains running on time.
I just don't buy the "don't do it, you might go crazy" though. But if you feel like it's not for you, it's probably not for you. Thoughtful enthusiasm is so important. Also knowing what you're taking and where it came from.
If you or someone you know struggles with mental illness coupled with drug use, there is real help for it and free resources. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and it's Dialectical[2] cousin are showing amazing results. SmartRecovery[3] is a fantastic free resource. With free daily online chat groups (audio, video, and text) as well as in person meetups all over the world.
"I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances."
Psychedelics have been used to treat schizophrenia and depression before. Here is an excerpt from a paper on "Treatment of Childhood Schizophrenia Utilizing LSD and Psilocybin"[1]:
The first patient we treated [with LSD] was an eleven-year-old girl who
was dying of something akin to marasmus. Marasmus is a condition of
wasting away of the body, where nutrients are not assimilated. It
occurs in infants who have no human contact. They go into such an
isolated mental state that not even intravenous feeding is effective..
The girl was actively suicidal and would make every attempt to destroy
herself. She was in twenty-four-hour restraint. When let loose, she
would batter herself: smash her eyes, smash her head against the rails.
She looked like an old, wizened lady -- nothing but skin and bones, and
battered black and blue.
So the psychiatrist said, 'Why don't you start with this girl. She's
going to die anyway, so there is nothing to lose.' It was quite a
challenge to take as my first patient someone who was in such a terrible
situation. I was afraid that maybe she would die during the session.
But I didn't have any alternative, because this was who I was given.
We didn't use low doses with any of the patients. My guess is that she
got 300 or 400 micrograms [of LSD], and she weighed maybe fifty-five
pounds. She was just skin and bones, and was totally incoherent. She
screamed, babbled, and spat if you got near her. She was not in contact
with anybody, nor had she ever been since she was hospitalized.
During the session she started wailing like a wounded animal -- it was
the most chilling sound. Then she started screaming, and the pitch
would increase and increase. We tried everything to make contact with
her, to no avail.
After about seven or eight hours I was exhausted, and so frustrated that
I just yelled at her, "Nancy! When are you going to stop screaming! I
can't stand it anymore!" [laughs] She stopped and looked at me. This
was the first time she had made eye contact with anybody, and said, "I
have a long way to go, so just stay out of my way." That was the first
thing she ever said to anybody. Then she went back to screaming. That
was our session.
Hers was an amazing story, which we subsequently published. Once she
started speaking, it was possible to work with her more effectively.
She was a very intelligent girl, perhaps an ancient soul. She was a
challenge -- conniving and manipulative -- and she gave us a run for our
money. Her bottom line was always that she had control over hurting
herself; this became her ace in the hole. As she improved, she would
eventually just carry a Kleenex around, put it on her hand, and say that
the Kleenex was stopping her from hitting herself. So we would grab the
Kleenex and hide it, and she'd say: "Damn you! Damn you! Give me that
napkin!" There was a whole power struggle that went on for months.
Of course, during this time she was no longer in restraints, and she
could move about on the ward. She struck up a companionship with one of
the other girls in the program, and she was in constant contact with the
staff.
She must have had eighteen or nineteen sessions spaced apart by two or
three weeks, and every session was productive. Between these sessions,
we had to develop a whole treatment program for managing her, as she was
extremely bright and incredibly manipulative. One time she said to me,
"Well, I can't fool the day staff, but I can still fool the night
staff." Then as soon as she said it, I could tell that she was
thinking, "Oh my God! I've given myself away!" I looked at her and
said, "That's not going to last very long, is it?" And she said, "Damn
you!" So, that night I got together with the evening staff and clued
them in on what to do, because she was still manipulating the hell out
of them. Talk about a tough patient! But she was no longer hurting
herself. And although she remained in the hospital, she got well enough
to attend school.
i'm of the opinion that the psychotic breaks risk would be an engineering problem to overcome in the context of using psychedelics therapeutically.
besides, in a clinical context, it's highly unlikely any kind of psychotic break could get too far out of hand; an astute clinician would recognize the patient spiraling out of their control and administer a correcting dose of an anxiolytic, or, failing that, a trip-ender like an antipsychotic.
I tried Psychedelics for my depression, and my roommate has been self medicating similarly. I think they can help - but they're going to make the current opioid epidemic look like child's play. I have very carefully limited my intake - and I'm finding that I don't like a lot of what I've found. I'm definitely finding my roommate is becoming a worse person, and well on the way to all of the ugly things that we associate with drug use.
What are the ugly things associated with psychedelic drug use? I would think the 'worst' would be becoming a full blown hippie and remove yourself from society but still that would be a personal choice. What are the traits you see as a worse person?
I don't know how legitimate these stories are, but some folks swear that they've gotten rid of various addictions after their trips on Ayahuasca. This is apparently a mixture of plants that some tribes in South America have been using for self-medication for ages.
My experience tells me that excessive MDMA use makes the drug not work, and results in severe depression. I've experienced it, I've seen others experience it. Neurotoxicity would seem to be the explanation.
The possibilities for psychedelic drugs to treat and shed insight into mental health issues are exciting. But I think it's worth pointing out (especially if you are a recreational user or are considering it) that we don't understand the side effects very well. Low resolution, we know they don't kill you or lead to addiction (though they can cause problems in people with underlying mental health problems).
But I'm concerned about the subtler, not-obviously-harmful-but-not-necessarily-desirable ways in which they permanently alter the brain. Slate Star Codex has a few recent articles that are worth considering:
The risk of HPPD seems to be very related to frequency of use, dosage, how strongly the substance binds to the receptor, and the anxiety levels of the person taking it.
It's a risk that should be taken very seriously, but if you're just taking a low dose of mushrooms once a year or so it's not a huge risk.
There's some evidence to suggest that they could also mitigate or repair TBI and other types of brain damage. Hopefully the NFL will throw some money at research and end up becoming a proponent of this type of cure.
[+] [-] cyberpip|7 years ago|reply
"[W]hy this[psychedelics] is not four-inch headlines on every newspaper on the planet I cannot understand because I don’t know what news you were waiting for, but this is the news that I was waiting for. It’s an incredible challenge to human understanding to try and make sense of this."
from https://www.asktmk.com/talks/Rap+Dancing+Into+the+Third+Mill...
https://youtu.be/adDRsqEj4PU?t=1641
[+] [-] pmoriarty|7 years ago|reply
Psychedelics might reveal to you that the neat little reality that you thought you had all figured out is a lot stranger and different from from what you thought it was, that your understanding of it might be all wrong, and that your place in it might not be all that cozy and secure. The experience could put everything in to question for you.
A lot of people feel threatened by that, so they try to push it away, lock it up, turn it off, or dismiss it.
Contrast that reaction to that in some other societies with a long tradition of psychedelic use. Psychedelic experiences there usually confirm the world view of the society, and tend to be very positive and accepted.
[+] [-] psyc|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tranchms|7 years ago|reply
https://www.maps.org/resources/responding_to_difficult_psych...
LSD changed my life, and continues to do so.
If you live in California, check out MAPS and Psychedelic Seminars.
I’m a huge advocate because I have experienced first hand the profound transformation that occurs as a result of a psychedelic experience.
[+] [-] kraig911|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jvandyke|7 years ago|reply
Based my reading of that, what these researchers are doing is not prescribing psychedelics to patients with mental disorders and giving the whole "take one time a day with food". What these researchers are finding is that the drugs can be very effective in a therapeutic setting with a guide (trained therapist or otherwise) to coach and conform the experience to reach a goal. In other words to those familiar with these drugs, set and setting. That is, mindset and surroundings are at least as important as the drug itself to achieving anything. Without that, it's just a drug experience. This is very unique compared to the drugs we're used to.
No medication will ever be a miracle drug, and most drugs show a significant decline in effectiveness once they're out of small trials and methods have standardized. However, any drug or therapy that sees orders of magnitude of improvement over existing drugs and therapies is promising and not worth dismissing simply because of a moral panic from the 60s or the Puritan ideals of our Western culture. Given time and the leeway to experiment, hopefully we will find uses for this class of drugs that have gone shunned for decades for no reason other than someone's moral qualms.
[+] [-] scythe|7 years ago|reply
That's already more expensive than a year on SSRIs, as crazy as that might sound. Human interaction is shockingly expensive.
[+] [-] shittyadmin|7 years ago|reply
If you'd like an introduction to his work I'd recommend his post on planting the opium poppy, I really enjoyed it.
https://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/opium-made-easy/
[+] [-] vole|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JamesBarney|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ttul|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ams6110|7 years ago|reply
In other words it could be dispensed in a clinical setting, but not via a pharmacy or other "take home" pathways.
I'm thinking that must already exists for certain surgical anesthetics, etc.
[+] [-] Omnus|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bjourne|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pm90|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kneel|7 years ago|reply
That being said I would never recommend LSD to someone undergoing serious mental health issues. IMO not safe at all, you can really end up in a bad place.
[+] [-] degrews|7 years ago|reply
The podcast episode referenced in the article is also well-worth listening to. They talk about the current state of the research, the regulatory process, getting funding, etc.
[1] https://boingboing.net/2018/05/23/depression-the-psychedelic...
[+] [-] benevol|7 years ago|reply
The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide, by Jim Fadiman (http://www.psychedelicexplorersguide.com/)
[+] [-] wincy|7 years ago|reply
Joe Rogan had Michael Pollan on recently[0], who wrote The Omnivores Dilemma and a new book How To Change Your Mind[1] which talks about the benefits of hallucinogens. They also briefly talk about the psychotic breaks some people will experience as a result of widespread use and shrug it off like it’ll be fine. Aldous Huxley wrote a book about his use of mescaline called Doors of Perception[2] which felt almost unintelligible and very strange to me as a person who has not (and will not, as my mental health is great but I’m certain I’m at risk of a psychotic break from hallucinogens due to family history) done psychedelics.
[0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tz4CrWE_P0g
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Change-Your-Mind-Consciousness-Transc...
[2] https://www.amazon.com/Doors-Perception-Heaven-Hell/dp/00617...
[+] [-] scarecrowbob|7 years ago|reply
- you likely know a lot of people who actively or in the past were experimenting with psychedelics, but you don't know that you know them because it is socially taboo and their experiences aren't super relavent to how you are interacting with them
- if you can accept that idea, then you might also consider that given a larger population of people who've tried it with few ill effects your anecdotal sample might not be an accurate representation of the psychedelic experience.
That second point would reconcile the "strange fervor for others to try it, even from people who have had bad trips."
There are indeed plenty of people mental health issues floating around, and while it's true that you may or may not know if these drugs will trigger a larger episode, that kind of life altering aspect of psychedelics not very common in my experience as a person who knows hundreds of people who have worked or played with these substances.
Those ideas are also based in my anecdotal experince, and perhaps it comes from a willingness to question some "fundamental axioms from scratch", but at the same time maybe that's a) not always a bad thing to do from time to time, and b) if your fundamental axioms are good there is no reason that you won't come back to them.
[+] [-] oldgeezr|7 years ago|reply
Anyone who's been in a psychedelic community for long(stoners, deadheads, etc) knows at least a few people who have been temporarily(1 day - 1 year) or permanently fried from having experienced one or many trips. I feel like there is often a backlash against our regressive legal approach which tends to accentuate the positives and diminish the negatives but really we need information. These drugs can permanently change your personality in some ways that will generally not be seen as positive. Yes, they can have many good effects but that comes with a small risk of extreme side effects.
[+] [-] notnot|7 years ago|reply
The first rule of psychedelics: don't worry.
How to not worry? Relax. Keep the body at peace. Be simple. Stay in the heart (stay with how you're feeling, not just with what you're seeing/experiencing). Let go. You cannot lose yourself because you are always yourself. Be grateful for the incredibly valuable experience you're having, even if it's difficult.
[+] [-] s-shellfish|7 years ago|reply
I honestly don't think we have the capacity to test existing psychiatric medication to the extent that we can provably demonstrate that over the long term, psychiatric medication + negligence (or simply, variance - controlled lab conditions versus real world) in mental health care is not a direct cause (more nicely, a contributory factor) of psychotic breaks for patients.
So yes, it's a risk, but it's not one that doesn't currently exist with what we do now.
[+] [-] nonbel|7 years ago|reply
As opposed to blindly "believe everything"? I would say the ability to question everything is evidence of a strong independent adult mind. The ability to just believe everything you are told isn't really "frail" (which I associate with old age and wisdom), but still weak in a childlike sense.
[+] [-] empath75|7 years ago|reply
So-called "bad trips" can be tremendously beneficial afterwards. They're "bad" because you get into the kind of deep, uncomfortable introspection that most people would want to avoid naturally. You learn things about yourself and the world that you probably wouldn't have wanted to know. That doesn't mean that you're going to go crazy afterwards. A lot of people come out better on the other side.
[+] [-] cf498|7 years ago|reply
I know there is a good argument about setting, mindset and support being the relevant factors, but the possibility of multiple hour horror trips always made me think again. And again. Which in itself is a huge problem for people who get complications because of that fear.
There are some drugs who work similar to an "allergy test". Salvia divinorum for example has an extremely short duration of effect. A few minutes (<10) in comparison to the same amount of hours. With proper supervision the potential to detect people at danger without lasting complications looks extremely promising to me. Sadly I dont think anyone will care for such safety measures as long as the whole benefit of psychedelic drugs is illegal at the moment.
[+] [-] stouset|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexandercrohde|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] newnewpdro|7 years ago|reply
Your concerns are more relevant to the higher, hallucinogenic doses.
All medicines have a dose:response curve with a dangerous response zone starting somewhere along the increasing dose axis.
[+] [-] stuntkite|7 years ago|reply
The benefits of responsible psychedelic usage greatly outweigh the risks. I haven't seen any evidence that permanent psychosis after psychedelic usage is statistically significant compared to psychosis in the general population. Honestly, riding your bike to work is more dangerous.
Something that's hard to quantify (because it's been illegal to study) is that people who use/abuse psychs before slipping into a permanent psychosis may have been on a manic upswing that led to the risky usage of the drugs. I've seen that happen to people in hypo mania with weed, alcohol, shopping, and the greatest offender and most predictable, cocaine. This can lead to PTSD and further self medication that can become a race condition that lasts a lifetime. The fear, shame, and personal loss can be crushing without the support to handle it.
Permanent psychosis or schizophrenia are so poorly defined. One of the hallmarks of schizophrenia is that it doesn't get better. So if you had an episode and they diagnose you then it does go away, well they guess you didn't have it. The more modern thinking is that schizophrenia doesn't exist[1]. There are so many factors that lead into an unmanageable mental state, not the least of which is our bizarre modern environment. IMO it's a miracle most of us are able to pass as sane well enough to keep the trains running on time.
I just don't buy the "don't do it, you might go crazy" though. But if you feel like it's not for you, it's probably not for you. Thoughtful enthusiasm is so important. Also knowing what you're taking and where it came from.
If you or someone you know struggles with mental illness coupled with drug use, there is real help for it and free resources. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and it's Dialectical[2] cousin are showing amazing results. SmartRecovery[3] is a fantastic free resource. With free daily online chat groups (audio, video, and text) as well as in person meetups all over the world.
[1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psych-unseen/201603/...
[2] http://www.millercounselingserv.com/uploads/9/0/5/1/90518949...
[3] http://www.smartrecovery.org
[+] [-] pmoriarty|7 years ago|reply
Psychedelics have been used to treat schizophrenia and depression before. Here is an excerpt from a paper on "Treatment of Childhood Schizophrenia Utilizing LSD and Psilocybin"[1]:
The first patient we treated [with LSD] was an eleven-year-old girl who was dying of something akin to marasmus. Marasmus is a condition of wasting away of the body, where nutrients are not assimilated. It occurs in infants who have no human contact. They go into such an isolated mental state that not even intravenous feeding is effective..
The girl was actively suicidal and would make every attempt to destroy herself. She was in twenty-four-hour restraint. When let loose, she would batter herself: smash her eyes, smash her head against the rails. She looked like an old, wizened lady -- nothing but skin and bones, and battered black and blue.
So the psychiatrist said, 'Why don't you start with this girl. She's going to die anyway, so there is nothing to lose.' It was quite a challenge to take as my first patient someone who was in such a terrible situation. I was afraid that maybe she would die during the session. But I didn't have any alternative, because this was who I was given.
We didn't use low doses with any of the patients. My guess is that she got 300 or 400 micrograms [of LSD], and she weighed maybe fifty-five pounds. She was just skin and bones, and was totally incoherent. She screamed, babbled, and spat if you got near her. She was not in contact with anybody, nor had she ever been since she was hospitalized.
During the session she started wailing like a wounded animal -- it was the most chilling sound. Then she started screaming, and the pitch would increase and increase. We tried everything to make contact with her, to no avail.
After about seven or eight hours I was exhausted, and so frustrated that I just yelled at her, "Nancy! When are you going to stop screaming! I can't stand it anymore!" [laughs] She stopped and looked at me. This was the first time she had made eye contact with anybody, and said, "I have a long way to go, so just stay out of my way." That was the first thing she ever said to anybody. Then she went back to screaming. That was our session.
Hers was an amazing story, which we subsequently published. Once she started speaking, it was possible to work with her more effectively. She was a very intelligent girl, perhaps an ancient soul. She was a challenge -- conniving and manipulative -- and she gave us a run for our money. Her bottom line was always that she had control over hurting herself; this became her ace in the hole. As she improved, she would eventually just carry a Kleenex around, put it on her hand, and say that the Kleenex was stopping her from hitting herself. So we would grab the Kleenex and hide it, and she'd say: "Damn you! Damn you! Give me that napkin!" There was a whole power struggle that went on for months.
Of course, during this time she was no longer in restraints, and she could move about on the ward. She struck up a companionship with one of the other girls in the program, and she was in constant contact with the staff.
She must have had eighteen or nineteen sessions spaced apart by two or three weeks, and every session was productive. Between these sessions, we had to develop a whole treatment program for managing her, as she was extremely bright and incredibly manipulative. One time she said to me, "Well, I can't fool the day staff, but I can still fool the night staff." Then as soon as she said it, I could tell that she was thinking, "Oh my God! I've given myself away!" I looked at her and said, "That's not going to last very long, is it?" And she said, "Damn you!" So, that night I got together with the evening staff and clued them in on what to do, because she was still manipulating the hell out of them. Talk about a tough patient! But she was no longer hurting herself. And although she remained in the hospital, she got well enough to attend school.
[1] - http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v07n3/07318fis.html
[+] [-] cryoshon|7 years ago|reply
besides, in a clinical context, it's highly unlikely any kind of psychotic break could get too far out of hand; an astute clinician would recognize the patient spiraling out of their control and administer a correcting dose of an anxiolytic, or, failing that, a trip-ender like an antipsychotic.
[+] [-] GauntletWizard|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lalos|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexbeloi|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bookofjoe|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sakopov|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] misiti3780|7 years ago|reply
https://samharris.org/podcasts/127-freedom-known/
He wrote a book about it also: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594204225
[+] [-] rjurney|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rhcom2|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] nsedlet|7 years ago|reply
But I'm concerned about the subtler, not-obviously-harmful-but-not-necessarily-desirable ways in which they permanently alter the brain. Slate Star Codex has a few recent articles that are worth considering:
http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/06/06/hppd-and-the-specter-of...
http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychede...
[+] [-] Alex3917|7 years ago|reply
It's a risk that should be taken very seriously, but if you're just taking a low dose of mushrooms once a year or so it's not a huge risk.
[+] [-] beenBoutIT|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rbosinger|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gm-conspiracy|7 years ago|reply