Bay Area man must pay $136,000 in tech-support scam against elderly

[ra1n85]

This judgement has no teeth:

>Under the settlement, Brar — who operated Genius Technologies and Avangatee Services and does not admit or deny the allegations, according to court documents — “is permanently restrained and enjoined from advertising, marketing, promoting, or offering for sale, or assisting in the advertising, marketing, promoting, or offering for sale of Technical Support Services.”

This guy is being made to pay 136,000 despite:

“The cost to consumers ranged between several hundred dollars to tens of thousands of dollars,” the FTC said of the scam, which appeared to begin in 2015.

This is not justice, and this judgement does not serve as a deterrent. This is grand larceny and needs to be accompanied with jail time for perpetrators.

[haspoken]

Paid to the FCC, and not the victims? It appears that the government is not interested in the victims, rather just wants a cut of the scam for themselves.

[javajosh]

It sounds to me like each individual he scammed also has a case. Which means there's hope for a more just outcome.

[degenerate]

Completely agree. These scum definitely need to go to jail, to send fair warning to would-be scammers that it's simply not worth the risk.

>The judgment was for $7.6 million, but it was partially suspended because of Brar's inability to pay the full amount, according to the FTC.

Pushover justice system, weak.

[justboxing]

If you hit the paywall, here's the story https://outline.com/GS6Yz8

[legohead]

Kitboga on twitch [1] calls these scammers and pretends to be various characters and waste their time. He puts funny moments on youtube [2].

At the "end" of his calls he confronts them and tries to talk to them about scamming old people. Most don't take it too well...

[1]: https://www.twitch.tv/kitboga

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm22FAXZMw1BaWeFszZxUKw

[deadmetheny]

There's a very interesting two part episode of the podcast Reply All[1] where they delve into one of these tech support scams. Worth taking the time to listen to.

[1] https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/long-distance

[bytematic]

These streams are great and kitboga is a great person. My theory on the matter is that many of these people go into phone support where they deal with very rude people (often westerners), so when they leave to do something else, the act of scamming people through tech support doesn't faze them as much.

[ddtaylor]

Not sure if he is part of it, but there is a large amount of people faking this kind of content on YouTube for those juicy views and clicks. Kind of amazing to be scamming with an anti-scamming vibe.

[afo]

Even with all these high profile settlements, it's still not stopping the problem.

Just today, we (Nomorobo) see 25 different numbers pushing Windows tech support scams. It's like that every. single. day.

This is an emergency call from Windows Microsoft. Your Windows license key have been expired all services are suspended on your computer. To renew call our toll free 1-877-231-6134.

https://www.nomorobo.com/lookup/844-805-7111

https://www.nomorobo.com/lookup/855-328-4888

https://www.nomorobo.com/lookup/844-517-8655

https://www.nomorobo.com/lookup/844-904-1444

https://www.nomorobo.com/lookup/972-441-0548

...

https://www.nomorobo.com/lookup/855-895-6786

(edit: formatting)

[forapurpose]

I hadn't heard of your service and just looked at it. If you're willing, a few questions I didn't see answered on the website:

From what I can tell, every incoming call rings simultaneously on the user's phone and Nomorobo's systems. If Nomorobo detects a blacklisted number, you pickup the call, play a 'you've been blocked' message, and hangup. Is that basically correct?

So Nomorobo ends up with a log of all my incoming calls. What happens with that data? Nomorobo is free for landlines (which I think means VOIP lines); is data collection the tradeoff?

Also, can I submit a whitelist, to prevent important numbers from being blocked? And is that list confidential?

Finally, do you work with old-fashioned POTS landlines? I'm interested in Nomorobo for an elderly couple who still have POTS.

[tjpaudio]

Pretty sure this guy got my mother. I remember her describing exactly this trying to get her computer fixed. I had to explain to her it was a scam, help her replace all her credit cards and wipe her machine to factory since computer was compromised with remote access. It was a huge headache, this guy deserves jail.

[vorpalhex]

I realize this is constrained somewhat by what the prosecutors can actually prove... but it seems like the person in question should go to jail for outright fraud and identity theft.

[icebraining]

I don't think the FTC can prosecute someone for criminal charges, regardless of proof. They would need the DoJ or an US Attorney to follow up on those. AFAIK, IANAL.

[ellatrue]

$136,000? He probably won'e even stop running his "business." Sounds like he was making bank - just pay the fine and keep going. The problem with a lot of illegal telemarketers/advertisers is its super easy for them to just pretend to be someone else after they get caught and continue on their way.

[Filligree]

$136,000 plus an injunction against ever practicing tech support again, whether legally or otherwise.

If he tries it again, and gets caught, then the next judgement will involve serious jail time.

[bruthafez]

Real talk. $136,000? That's just "the cost of doing business."

That fine is so small it's almost like, nice to the guy they're fining.

[keepper]

anyone find this a bit funny?

   "...and can never offer tech support again."

I've never heard of a non licensed profession being barred from "practicing"

  Brar Mom: Hey Brar, can you help me setup my new iPhone.
  Brar: Not under my parole conditions..

Does that mean that an illegal street food vendor can be barred from cooking, ever? hehe

[ddtaylor]

> The judgment was for $7.6 million, but it was partially suspended because of Brar’s inability to pay the full amount, according to the FTC.

Seems unlikely anyone else will be deterred from running these scams and I'll still have to be helping my grandparents every few months do chargebacks on scammers.

[pc86]

Agreed but to be fair if there is a judgment awarded that you cannot reasonably pay, the entire thing will get kicked out. It's better to hit them with a crippling amount that they can pay than to try to get what is actually owed but they end up paying nothing.

[monksy]

Why are they calling a scammer a "businessman"?

[bittercynic]

What else could that title mean?

[circa]

Slightly off topic, but the "Reply All" podcast did a great episode on the foreign IT phone support scams about a year ago.

https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/long-distance#episode-...

[nvr219]

This guy should be in jail though

[mulmen]

This misunderstanding of the US Legal system seems to come up frequently on HN. Most recently about Theraos I believe.

The FTC cannot press criminal charges which means they cannot put people in jail. Those types of charges fall to the Department of Justice who can continue pursuing these cases if they believe a criminal offense has taken place.

[no0e9nceo]

So I'm wondering if they did any work to find out who was on the India side of this so our law enforcement could work with theirs and maybe, I don't know, capture them, extradite them, and you know, punish them for their international crime? I can dream.

[RandomCSGeek]

Extradiction would be unlikely for such crime(even cases of terrorism can take years for extradiction, or may not even take place). But it would be possible to get them arrested in India.

That said, there are literally millions of people in India who have graduated with whatever degree/certificate, can speak English, and are willing to work in any kind of scam, as long as they get money to buy food. You can setup a office in Noida/Mumbai/Pune/Bangalore etc, and hire these people for dime a dozen. Things getting risky? Close everything and start anew in another city.

Problem lies in poor law enforcement in India, and lack of awareness among old americans.

[liveoneggs]

last year a family friend got her whole identity stolen and gave the guys a few hundred dollars.

Last week (!) my father ended up on the phone with someone before realizing he was being scammed. He is going to just throw his computer in the trash and buy a new one.

[toast0]

Get your father a chromebook -- the tech support scammers don't know how to work them yet, and it's easy to "powerwash" them back to stock if they do get taken over.

[srishtigupta]

Our measurement study on understanding the threat landscape of Tech Support Scam across multiple Online Social Networks (http://precog.iiitd.edu.in/pubs/shadow-sunshine-characterizi...)

[ryandrake]

This guy should get the max punishment, but come on—it’s 2018! Who on earth is still falling for this crap? If you haven’t yet had “the talk” with your parents and/or grandparents, consider taking a half hour today and doing it. End user education is the only way to stop these obvious (to us) scams.

[dingdongding]

You're on hacker news so it is easier for you to say that who falls for this crap. Ground reality is completely different. Lot of young and mature people can fall for this crap. It's like saying who falls for fake news these days. It is gonna be a learning curve for normal people to understand nuances of these scams.

[desireco42]

American prisons are scary places and I believe we lock people too easily. In this case however, this guy should serve the time and not get that easily off the hook.

[alsetmusic]

Unable to read article due to “ad-blocker.” Can anyone please summarize?

[driverdan]

Switch to uBlock Origin. The site loads fine with it.

[supermdguy]

https://txt.fyi/+/3777e84f/

[wcarron]

This is not an appropriate sentiment. Advocating the death penalty for what is essentially larceny is barbaric.