This is an extraordinarily important and interesting “space” ripe for innovation.
A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives.
I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would look like. Location is a huge part of it. Texting, sending images and videos would also be on the timeline.
Consider how much real-time location info — and live HD video streams — can 1 mobile phone produce, and how close to none of that is available in an emergency situation.
Consider how 911 is but one service, and that this is a worldwide problem. And that smartphones are worldwide too, and that there’s hundreds of millions of them.
I’m starting to plan out next steps. Connecting smartphones and emergency responders. Being a worldwide emergency digital-first dispatch service.
I built this about 6 years ago with Lloyd's of London as the underwriter for medical evacuation and search & rescue services. We were way to early for smartphone market, but the GEOS response team behind FindMeSpot.com can be contracted by anyone. http://www.geosworldwide.com/
The challenge for any private company is that the solution needs to be completely integrated into both the device and behavioral patterns need to be re-learned. For most people (in the US), calling 9-11 has been engrained since they were a child. In a moment of panic, it's the first or second reaction... not loading a 3rd party app. While not impossible, convincing Apple or Google to let you own "SOS+" capabilities would be a tall order...
Spot has succeed in the adventure market by owning the device and behavior change being easy to manage with no cell service. Just about everyone I know who has a mountain home, sailboat, or frequently travels to remote places – has purchased Spot.
If I was a VC, I would be interested in a roll-up strategy... GEOS and Spot aren't the only solutions.
When you get to the stage of concrete work on this, please email us at [email protected] and maybe we can arrange an AMA-like discussion about it. I think the community would likely find that interesting.
I worked on 911 reporting software oh 6 or 7 years ago now, and I seem to remember talk about allowing SMS and MMS along with live-streamed video coming from mobile phones to the PSAPs ... but I guess there hasn't been much movement on that.
I think the trouble you'll run into is the various agencies involved (since it's been quite a while I don't really remember), e.g. the Sheriff's departments run the PSAPs and I believe the State requires reporting for funding. And since these are government contracts you have to deal with getting those contracts and whatever contracts they already have with incumbents.
Not only that but there's a ton of different equipment out there, and everybody is using different stuff.
Anyway not saying it can't be done and that it can't be done efficiently (because believe me it can), but it's 100% government so you're gonna need some patience, good sales guys, and lobbyists.
edit: congrats on the award BTW, that sounds like you did some great work.
A lot of what you are imagining is already a reality in many areas. Our company takes care of pretty much all of the services in a PSAP; call-taking, computer aided dispatch, map, and radio dispatch, plus records and jail management for law enforcement. All the systems work together and it is absolutely possible for a dispatcher to patch a caller into a radio talkgroup, individual call, or to a first responders cell phone... it just isn't very useful and it is hardly ever done in real life.
Mobile CAD and RMS are catching on as well so in many departments, first responders can see and hear everything going on in dispatch from their tablets or laptops if they want. They can see what calls are active, what units are assigned to them, and actually interact with the caller if it is allowed. Again, this isn't always that useful. Staff in dispatch almost always have a better understanding of what is going on big picture wise and are already on top of allocating resources and clearing information. Going around them is not all that helpful. Silent dispatch is nice for beat work. It's great when CAD automatically creates incidents in RMS that LE can easily pull into reports... including recordings of the 911 calls etc.
There are popular smartphone apps like active 911, Bryx911, edispatch ,and iamresponding that are great for first responders, especially volunteers. These apps sync with the CAD system in dispatch and offer alert/response, mapping, and messaging features.
The space changes slowly, but it is very much changing and adapting to the smartphone era. FirstNet will probably accelerate these kinds of changes, which is a good thing... but I am sure it will introduce its own set of problems.
I recently witnessed an intoxicated man collapse on the street in front of me, so I was first on scene and had to call our local version of 911 (I live in Australia).
Of course I am asked where I am, the address and street, and I had no idea.
I was at the bus stop I walk to everyday, surrounded by building with names I couldn't read very well at night, and no street signs near me.
I was eventually able to work it out, but that was precious moments we lost that could have made things significantly worse in a different case.
The man was passed out cold (he had hit his head very hard when he fell) and had a very weak pulse and weak breathing, I performed CPR until the ambulance arrived and he started to regain consciousness.
The ambulance took a very long time to arrive and then find us, I had to get other bystanders to stand out in the street to wave and shout.
When the ambulance left he was fully conscious and able to converse with the officers.
This whole thing of course seemed absurd, as we were all carrying smartphones equipped with HD cameras, GPS, and radios.
In another case, during the Christchurch earthquakes in New Zealand, I was lucky to be involved in a volunteer group which started offering free support services to those on the ground.
We ran a text information service where people could text in questions, including asking for the nearest help center based on their location (which they had to provide via text). We would likewise respond over text.
We were able to help people find the help they needed, by making it available over text we also were able to reduce the already overloaded cellular services (voice calls are much more expensive than text).
We helped dispatch appropriate emergency services to people in need, but it was still very much copying address information as text between various jury rigged systems (written by us during the incident).
I hope we can improve these systems in the coming years, it is especially important to improve them to be redundant to things such as cellular system overload (which is very common during major crisis).
Oakland needs this help so badly. Call 911 on a cell in Oakland, and you're going to wait on hold for 30 minutes, most of which will be you being transfered to the wrong departments over and over. You start at a call center somewhere in middle America with a person who does not know where Oakland is. They pass you to CA CHP, who don't know Oakland either, because their dispatcher on the line is out of Sacramento. Finally, you get dumped to the local 911, which is overwhelmed, has long hold times, and sometimes even hangs up on you.
Just FYI, if you are ever in Oakland and have trouble, DO NOT CALL 911. Call the police directly at 510-777-3333
This Oakland 911 problem is, I think, the biggest single technical problem with Oakland as a whole, and it's been this way for 20 years...
Sadly, this is not unique to Oakland. Several of the cities I've lived in have been plagued with 911 hold times of 10-20 minutes or more.
In one city, the mayor threatened to put a checklist on the ballot so people could decide which types of emergencies would be responded to, and the top vote-getters would be funded.
In another, a city council member publicly told his constituents "the police are not here to protect you. If you want to be safe, get a gun and a dog."
In Las Vegas for several years recently, the police department stopped responding to traffic crashes unless someone was killed. The insurance companies put pressure on the city to reverse that.
Unfortunately, it seems that all of the "homeland security" money that the feds send to the locals goes into military-grade weapons, and not into basic services like 911 and police patrols.
I would like to see a city sell the tanks it gets from the feds and use the money for 911, and other needed services.
My friend Matthew Hanson died in Oakland. He was shot in his home and died because of the 911 problem. Appalling.
In my home area 911 picks up immediately and police and EMS would have been there in under 15 minutes.
This story below (headline about how the shooter subsequently died) explains that there were two alterations. My friend (the victim) called 911 during the first altercation, 40 minutes before the second altercation where he was subsequently shot. He stayed alive for long enough to call 911 a second time. Sadly they didn't make it there in time. When the police arrived they couldn't get anyone to answer the door so they left. Matthew was found by a friend.
This is fucked. You should never have to wait for a 911 call to be answered. Our society needs to do better.
Can you share any insight into how things got so bad? What failure of politics or market forces led to this situation? What needs to change before everyone who needs help can get it when they need it?
Just FYI, if you are ever in Oakland and have trouble, DO NOT CALL 911. Call the police directly at 510-777-3333
I recommend that whatever city you are in, you have a shortcut to the police on your home screen (perhaps buried a little, so you don't accidentally butt dial it).
Let's say 911 there got staffed up and got resources to handle the call volume. Would this actually translate to better emergency services response? One assumes they're also all busy, all the time, no?
It seems like there oughta be an app that can make it easy to pick non-/emergency numbers for a given location, type of service and jurisdiction (highway/state,
unincorporated/county sheriff, incorporated/municipality, park ranger, tribal, military, etc.)
Where does all of the money in California go? I live in a low tax "poor" state and have never had any issues with police/fire/ems answering promptly and arriving in time
I work in 911, Telematics, alarm, PERS space. We are a PSAP (Public Safety Answer Point)
The device might send a Geocode, but reverse geo-coding (turning a long/lat into a human readable place) is a highly inaccurate thing. Secondly, most responders have no means of turning a long/lat into a point on the map, short of using their personal phone. Next, altitude is not factored in. Imagine being in a downtown office building. If nobody is downstairs to guide responders, or if the caller was unable to speak, they will have a really difficult time determining just which building/floor you are in.
Its all gotten much worse with the advent of mobile/VOIP and now, WIFI phone systems where your phone can move. Its a system ill equipped to handle it.
I have been deploying e911 call taking systems for more than 10 years. All the areas that I service have been getting pretty accurate location data on mobile callers since I started.
Initially, the providers send the location of the tower they are on and the triangulation data with the call. A couple of seconds later they will send more accurate GPS coordinates for most calls, which are usually pretty good.
Sometimes there are issues where a provider will send a call to the wrong PSAP because the users location is unclear. This is usually fixed if the 911 operator rebids the call... it will be routed correctly almost 100% the second time and is generally quicker than a manual attended transfer.
I am not saying that they couldn't do better, but this article insinuates there is some kind of major problem where there isn't.
All that being said, people with specific risk situations (an elderly parent they care for or a disabled child for example) should call the business line for your local 911 public safety answering point and have them add specific information to the file associated with your number.
Good for Apple for helping to save lives. As someone who's had to wait for an ambulance while someone is dying I understand how horrible that wait is and how desperately you want them to get to you as quickly as possible. The second part of this however is to ensure it's not open to abuse (by criminals or the government) for non emergency calls.
I had to make a 999 call a few years back because I saw a woman faint and bang her head on a concrete pavement. Although I was in the local area which I know very well, it was really difficult - when put on the spot in an emergency - to describe my exact location.
Will it be possible to make an anonymous 911 call?
There can be scenarios, I think, where we (society) do not want to deter someone from reporting an emergency due to fear of being identified. Off the top of my head, consider a situation involving organized crime taking place, where call centre staff (or law enforcement) may be compelled to leak the identity of a witness.
Cell phones have been sending gps coordinates since 1997 as part of the e911 project. Support for it was a hardware requirement in GSM phones in '98 and was supposed to be in all phones shortly after that. Who dropped the ball?
> The approach developed by Apple and RapidSOS sends location data from an iPhone to a "clearinghouse" accessible to emergency calling centers. Only the 911 calling centers will be able to see the data during the call, and none of it can be used for non-emergency purposes, according to Apple.
How long until this information is available to law enforcement?
In order of increasing sophistication of argument:
- Your phone sends your broad location to your provider constantly, and your precise location (when enabled) to tons of applications. If you are worried about LEO having your location, 911 services is not the first battleground I would choose.
- There could be a legal argument, I assume, that calling 911 acts as consent of the precise tracking of location for the purposes of emergency response, while blanket collection without a warrant would be a violation of civil liberties.
> How long until this information is available to law enforcement?
Well in this case that's entirely the point, people are calling law enforcement. But if you were concerned that someone could just pull up your location at any time, their system only gets your location data when you call 911:
> When this feature is made available later this year in an iOS software update, Apple phones will send fast and accurate device location to the NG911 Clearinghouse when a user dials 9-1-1.
That said, law enforcement can already look up where your phone is based on tower triangulation. This is just about getting more detailed information to first responders more quickly.
You don't understand, they aren't actively looking at the data so it's not spying. It's just being archived at our central servers for important future use, and any access is subject to warrants (for now). We are working with Google to bring this important life-saving terrorist-defeating child porn-detecting feature to Android. Think of the Children!
(I really hope it only sends out the information exactly while the phone is calling 911. Maybe in the future we'll have big debates about whether people should be able to "walk dark" without a mobile tracking device in the streets.)
As an Australian it's horrifying to hear the US experience with 911. We dial 000, and the standard experience is that it's picked up straight away, you answer "Police, Ambulance, or Fire" and "State and Town" and you'll be speaking to a call-taker in less than half a minute. Every now and then something goes wrong (like a big cable gets cut) and the national Telco gets an appropriately huge flogging, but 99.9% of the time it's clockwork.
The accuracy and timing requirements are terrible and still use some combination of radio location and raw cellular data. Some extracts from the article you linked:
> Wireless network operators must provide the latitude and longitude of callers within 300 meters, within six minutes of a request by a PSAP.
> Code division multiple access (CDMA) networks tend to use handset-based radiolocation technologies, which are technically more similar to radionavigation.
> Mobile phone users may also have a selection to permit location information to be sent to non-emergency phone numbers or data networks, so that it can help people who are simply lost or want other location-based services.
Presumably Apple is going to share their Wifi-assisted data instead of raw GPS signal or radiolocation data.
Looking at my location in a dense urban zone, 300m would narrow my location down to roughly 300 houses. Good enough to get emergency services on the way, not nearly good enough to render assistance if the caller can't speak/doesn't know where they are.
No. It's possible that this information has been available, but the connection to the end operator depends on local, non-standard setups. I once called 911 to report a passed out individual in Central Park. I tried relaying landmarks, lamp post #s, etc. Eventually it turns out the operator needed "5th and 80th, but in the park" to clear their prompt and dispatch an ambulance. This is on a relatively new dispatch system, too, that for some reason doesn't support GPS coordinates.
I went to elementary school with the founder of RapidSOS and it's pretty cool to see one of us country boys making the front page of HN! If I'm being objective about this, I think it's a fairly good idea in the abstract but it will be very difficult to monetize. Where I grew up, there are still huge gaps in cellular coverage and this won't help people who can't even make a call. I do think there is a there there but it's fraught with peril. That said, best of luck to Michael! At the very least, his heart is in the right place.
How does this differ from the existing system? I thought your cell carrier would already use GPS if it was available to communicate your location to the 911 call center, and route it to the appropriate call center?
For anyone with the iOS12 beta, is there an opt-out for this system service in the Privacy -> Location Services -> System Services list?
What happens if "Location Services" has been disabled by MDM policy, or was never enabled since the device was setup?
On a new iOS11 device, if you decline to enable Location Services during setup, it stays disabled. Once enabled, it can no longer be disabled, and the system service "Share My Location" cannot be disabled, even if all other app and system services are blocked from accessing Location data.
It would be quite useful in a general sense to develop a technique to transfer modest amounts of data over a voice call - location, obviously for 911, but also for plenty of other applications where installing an app (never mind developing it) is overkill. Such a technology could also be used for automatically transferring reservation/membership numbers when calling customer service, or even enabling some kind of secure challenge/response for calling your bank.
I suppose it could work with some kind of low-speed acoustic modem combined with an "intents"-style protocol. You'd hear a short sequence of beeps, your phone would vibrate and show a dialog "Caller wants to know your GPS location", and when clicking OK, your phone would send back your location. In the other direction, when initiating a call with metadata, the receiving party would play a beep when ready (like a fax) and your phone would play off the metadata for the call -- this would basically be implemented like query string parameters on the phone number URL.
Undoubtedly desperately needed tech, but I don't understand why the geolocation couldn't be embedded in the voice call itself (14.4k modem style). It's such a tiny amount of data, it wouldn't need to interfere with the call at all, or necessarily even be audible. Why the need for a "clearinghouse" and a third-party private company service lock-in by already stretched emergency services?
Today I had to call AAA to request a tow truck. I called from my cell phone and the automated system told me that it was determining my location from the cell towers and using that to route me to the best place. How does that work? I have worked with Twilio but I don't see any API for getting a caller's location. Is that something available with different providers?
[+] [-] gregsadetsky|7 years ago|reply
A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives.
I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would look like. Location is a huge part of it. Texting, sending images and videos would also be on the timeline.
Consider how much real-time location info — and live HD video streams — can 1 mobile phone produce, and how close to none of that is available in an emergency situation.
Consider how 911 is but one service, and that this is a worldwide problem. And that smartphones are worldwide too, and that there’s hundreds of millions of them.
I’m starting to plan out next steps. Connecting smartphones and emergency responders. Being a worldwide emergency digital-first dispatch service.
Imagine!
[+] [-] pxlpshr|7 years ago|reply
The challenge for any private company is that the solution needs to be completely integrated into both the device and behavioral patterns need to be re-learned. For most people (in the US), calling 9-11 has been engrained since they were a child. In a moment of panic, it's the first or second reaction... not loading a 3rd party app. While not impossible, convincing Apple or Google to let you own "SOS+" capabilities would be a tall order...
Spot has succeed in the adventure market by owning the device and behavior change being easy to manage with no cell service. Just about everyone I know who has a mountain home, sailboat, or frequently travels to remote places – has purchased Spot.
If I was a VC, I would be interested in a roll-up strategy... GEOS and Spot aren't the only solutions.
[+] [-] dang|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jgh|7 years ago|reply
I think the trouble you'll run into is the various agencies involved (since it's been quite a while I don't really remember), e.g. the Sheriff's departments run the PSAPs and I believe the State requires reporting for funding. And since these are government contracts you have to deal with getting those contracts and whatever contracts they already have with incumbents.
Not only that but there's a ton of different equipment out there, and everybody is using different stuff.
Anyway not saying it can't be done and that it can't be done efficiently (because believe me it can), but it's 100% government so you're gonna need some patience, good sales guys, and lobbyists.
edit: congrats on the award BTW, that sounds like you did some great work.
[+] [-] dbcooperlives|7 years ago|reply
Mobile CAD and RMS are catching on as well so in many departments, first responders can see and hear everything going on in dispatch from their tablets or laptops if they want. They can see what calls are active, what units are assigned to them, and actually interact with the caller if it is allowed. Again, this isn't always that useful. Staff in dispatch almost always have a better understanding of what is going on big picture wise and are already on top of allocating resources and clearing information. Going around them is not all that helpful. Silent dispatch is nice for beat work. It's great when CAD automatically creates incidents in RMS that LE can easily pull into reports... including recordings of the 911 calls etc.
There are popular smartphone apps like active 911, Bryx911, edispatch ,and iamresponding that are great for first responders, especially volunteers. These apps sync with the CAD system in dispatch and offer alert/response, mapping, and messaging features.
The space changes slowly, but it is very much changing and adapting to the smartphone era. FirstNet will probably accelerate these kinds of changes, which is a good thing... but I am sure it will introduce its own set of problems.
[+] [-] cjh_|7 years ago|reply
I recently witnessed an intoxicated man collapse on the street in front of me, so I was first on scene and had to call our local version of 911 (I live in Australia). Of course I am asked where I am, the address and street, and I had no idea. I was at the bus stop I walk to everyday, surrounded by building with names I couldn't read very well at night, and no street signs near me. I was eventually able to work it out, but that was precious moments we lost that could have made things significantly worse in a different case.
The man was passed out cold (he had hit his head very hard when he fell) and had a very weak pulse and weak breathing, I performed CPR until the ambulance arrived and he started to regain consciousness. The ambulance took a very long time to arrive and then find us, I had to get other bystanders to stand out in the street to wave and shout. When the ambulance left he was fully conscious and able to converse with the officers.
This whole thing of course seemed absurd, as we were all carrying smartphones equipped with HD cameras, GPS, and radios.
In another case, during the Christchurch earthquakes in New Zealand, I was lucky to be involved in a volunteer group which started offering free support services to those on the ground. We ran a text information service where people could text in questions, including asking for the nearest help center based on their location (which they had to provide via text). We would likewise respond over text. We were able to help people find the help they needed, by making it available over text we also were able to reduce the already overloaded cellular services (voice calls are much more expensive than text). We helped dispatch appropriate emergency services to people in need, but it was still very much copying address information as text between various jury rigged systems (written by us during the incident).
I hope we can improve these systems in the coming years, it is especially important to improve them to be redundant to things such as cellular system overload (which is very common during major crisis).
[+] [-] nashashmi|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] VonGuard|7 years ago|reply
Just FYI, if you are ever in Oakland and have trouble, DO NOT CALL 911. Call the police directly at 510-777-3333
This Oakland 911 problem is, I think, the biggest single technical problem with Oakland as a whole, and it's been this way for 20 years...
[+] [-] reaperducer|7 years ago|reply
In one city, the mayor threatened to put a checklist on the ballot so people could decide which types of emergencies would be responded to, and the top vote-getters would be funded.
In another, a city council member publicly told his constituents "the police are not here to protect you. If you want to be safe, get a gun and a dog."
In Las Vegas for several years recently, the police department stopped responding to traffic crashes unless someone was killed. The insurance companies put pressure on the city to reverse that.
Unfortunately, it seems that all of the "homeland security" money that the feds send to the locals goes into military-grade weapons, and not into basic services like 911 and police patrols.
I would like to see a city sell the tanks it gets from the feds and use the money for 911, and other needed services.
[+] [-] ryanmarsh|7 years ago|reply
In my home area 911 picks up immediately and police and EMS would have been there in under 15 minutes.
This story below (headline about how the shooter subsequently died) explains that there were two alterations. My friend (the victim) called 911 during the first altercation, 40 minutes before the second altercation where he was subsequently shot. He stayed alive for long enough to call 911 a second time. Sadly they didn't make it there in time. When the police arrived they couldn't get anyone to answer the door so they left. Matthew was found by a friend.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/06/15/oakland-slaying-suspe...
[+] [-] nxc18|7 years ago|reply
Can you share any insight into how things got so bad? What failure of politics or market forces led to this situation? What needs to change before everyone who needs help can get it when they need it?
[+] [-] gnopgnip|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] e40|7 years ago|reply
I recommend that whatever city you are in, you have a shortcut to the police on your home screen (perhaps buried a little, so you don't accidentally butt dial it).
[+] [-] philip1209|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] core-questions|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] himom|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] frockington|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Aloha|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drewmol|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chefandy|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bungie4|7 years ago|reply
The device might send a Geocode, but reverse geo-coding (turning a long/lat into a human readable place) is a highly inaccurate thing. Secondly, most responders have no means of turning a long/lat into a point on the map, short of using their personal phone. Next, altitude is not factored in. Imagine being in a downtown office building. If nobody is downstairs to guide responders, or if the caller was unable to speak, they will have a really difficult time determining just which building/floor you are in.
Its all gotten much worse with the advent of mobile/VOIP and now, WIFI phone systems where your phone can move. Its a system ill equipped to handle it.
[+] [-] monochromatic|7 years ago|reply
Why? That sure seems like it should be trivial.
> altitude is not factored in
Why not? GPS can tell you your altitude.
[+] [-] Terretta|7 years ago|reply
Three words for you ...
https://what3words.com
[+] [-] dbcooperlives|7 years ago|reply
Initially, the providers send the location of the tower they are on and the triangulation data with the call. A couple of seconds later they will send more accurate GPS coordinates for most calls, which are usually pretty good.
Sometimes there are issues where a provider will send a call to the wrong PSAP because the users location is unclear. This is usually fixed if the 911 operator rebids the call... it will be routed correctly almost 100% the second time and is generally quicker than a manual attended transfer.
I am not saying that they couldn't do better, but this article insinuates there is some kind of major problem where there isn't.
All that being said, people with specific risk situations (an elderly parent they care for or a disabled child for example) should call the business line for your local 911 public safety answering point and have them add specific information to the file associated with your number.
[+] [-] ajeet_dhaliwal|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rwmj|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emptybits|7 years ago|reply
There can be scenarios, I think, where we (society) do not want to deter someone from reporting an emergency due to fear of being identified. Off the top of my head, consider a situation involving organized crime taking place, where call centre staff (or law enforcement) may be compelled to leak the identity of a witness.
[+] [-] LinuxBender|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] craftyguy|7 years ago|reply
How long until this information is available to law enforcement?
[+] [-] unethical_ban|7 years ago|reply
- Your phone sends your broad location to your provider constantly, and your precise location (when enabled) to tons of applications. If you are worried about LEO having your location, 911 services is not the first battleground I would choose.
- There could be a legal argument, I assume, that calling 911 acts as consent of the precise tracking of location for the purposes of emergency response, while blanket collection without a warrant would be a violation of civil liberties.
[+] [-] jonknee|7 years ago|reply
Well in this case that's entirely the point, people are calling law enforcement. But if you were concerned that someone could just pull up your location at any time, their system only gets your location data when you call 911:
https://info.rapidsos.com/blog/bringing-apple-device-locatio...
> When this feature is made available later this year in an iOS software update, Apple phones will send fast and accurate device location to the NG911 Clearinghouse when a user dials 9-1-1.
That said, law enforcement can already look up where your phone is based on tower triangulation. This is just about getting more detailed information to first responders more quickly.
[+] [-] macNchz|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Spooky23|7 years ago|reply
This allows first responders to get the information from people calling 911. That’s a good thing!
[+] [-] abtinf|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Drakim|7 years ago|reply
You don't understand, they aren't actively looking at the data so it's not spying. It's just being archived at our central servers for important future use, and any access is subject to warrants (for now). We are working with Google to bring this important life-saving terrorist-defeating child porn-detecting feature to Android. Think of the Children!
(I really hope it only sends out the information exactly while the phone is calling 911. Maybe in the future we'll have big debates about whether people should be able to "walk dark" without a mobile tracking device in the streets.)
[+] [-] rando444|7 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1
[+] [-] GeekyBear|7 years ago|reply
911 service has gone through a few different capability upgrades.
Basic 911: You communicate the nature of the emergency and it's location by voice.
Enhanced 911: The call center receives your landline phone number and looks up your address from a database.
E911 Phase 1: The call center receives the mobile phone number and the location of the cell tower taking the call.
E911 Phase 2: The call center receives the mobile phone number and the phone's location.
http://www.marioncoks.net/Departments/EmergencyCommunication...
Apple is simply implementing the new standard here.
[+] [-] thomasfedb|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cstrat|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joecool1029|7 years ago|reply
Hasn't 911 location been shared via gps location in pretty much every cellphone for the past decade?
I remember shitty verizon kyocera clamshells advertising gps for 911 in like 2004.
[+] [-] scrooched_moose|7 years ago|reply
> Wireless network operators must provide the latitude and longitude of callers within 300 meters, within six minutes of a request by a PSAP.
> Code division multiple access (CDMA) networks tend to use handset-based radiolocation technologies, which are technically more similar to radionavigation.
> Mobile phone users may also have a selection to permit location information to be sent to non-emergency phone numbers or data networks, so that it can help people who are simply lost or want other location-based services.
Presumably Apple is going to share their Wifi-assisted data instead of raw GPS signal or radiolocation data.
Looking at my location in a dense urban zone, 300m would narrow my location down to roughly 300 houses. Good enough to get emergency services on the way, not nearly good enough to render assistance if the caller can't speak/doesn't know where they are.
[+] [-] jaxbot|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] npx|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ensignavenger|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] walterbell|7 years ago|reply
What happens if "Location Services" has been disabled by MDM policy, or was never enabled since the device was setup?
On a new iOS11 device, if you decline to enable Location Services during setup, it stays disabled. Once enabled, it can no longer be disabled, and the system service "Share My Location" cannot be disabled, even if all other app and system services are blocked from accessing Location data.
[+] [-] mseebach|7 years ago|reply
I suppose it could work with some kind of low-speed acoustic modem combined with an "intents"-style protocol. You'd hear a short sequence of beeps, your phone would vibrate and show a dialog "Caller wants to know your GPS location", and when clicking OK, your phone would send back your location. In the other direction, when initiating a call with metadata, the receiving party would play a beep when ready (like a fax) and your phone would play off the metadata for the call -- this would basically be implemented like query string parameters on the phone number URL.
[+] [-] bpowah|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chicob|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mcculley|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] austinshea|7 years ago|reply