Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

[ramblerman]

> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence.

This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning.

My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results.

disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the pseudo-scientific explanations just get to me...

[ska]

Agree on the limits of post-hoc reasoning.

In my limited experience, these kids may reacting positively not due to anything specific about chess or the program, rather to the fact that people seem to care about their development and options. Plus the fact they are being put through a non-antagonistic and less dangerous program than juvie.

I also think it's a great idea.

[projectramo]

Yes, if this had backfired I wonder if people would talk about how chess "Makes you see everything in black and white. You win or lose, or rarely draw. There is no team work!"

It would be interesting to know if chess is more effective than, say, reading or making movies. There is something intellectual about it.

[dalbasal]

To bring it full circle...

any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to result in philosophical statements like "everything I know about life, I learned playing rugby" or "In life, like chess, every move has a consequence."

[omeid2]

How is making an analogy for action and consequence is hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning?

[JumpCrisscross]

I work in an industry which encourages ADD. Chess is one of the ways I maintain my attention span. My game tells me when I’m tired, stressed, inattentive or missing forests for trees.

[everdev]

Reminds me of the NBA ads claiming life and basketball are "so similar".

These creative sentences are great when they work, but are there any checks and balances on this? What if a judge thinks religious studies are the best way to reform a child? Are they obligated to participate, or is it an option for the kid to go to juvenile hall instead?

[bitwize]

It's not that every move has a consequence, it's that chess requires you to think about the long-term ramifications of each move. Petty criminals often become so because they lack the capacity for such long-term thinking ability, or so goes the popular psychological theory, in which case chess may be an easy way to develop it.

[sametmax]

Besides, if we skip science, the tetris analogy seems way more accurate than chess.

[ada1981]

I’ve been exploring the idea of an alt-prison startup.

I imagine things like nature, skills, community, art, trauma healing, etc. could all be a big part of it.

[Florin_Andrei]

> > In life, like chess, every move has a consequence.

> This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning.

Sure, but OTOH it is literally true.

[binarymax]

When I was a teenager (in the 90s) I was a chess teacher/coach. I won't quote cliches and metaphors which I believe are trite and gloss over the point.

While we had a large group of behaved kids, some parents would send their troublesome children to learn chess as a way to socialize in a healthy intellectual environment with a strong value and ethics system. As a coach it was very difficult, especially since I was socially awkward and troubled myself as a teen. We wouldn't just play chess though - which can get very competitive and one sided. We also enjoyed team activities like the chess variants bughouse and kriegspiel, and we'd get outside and play soccer and kickball too - I found those to be the most helpful (I love those two variants I mentioned much more than chess).

In short, the rewards were real and long-lasting. Chess helped turn me around personally, and gave me an exposure for responsibility (and I fucked up a couple times but that's part of learning from mistakes in life). I know many of the children in our club went on to have responsible and successful lives, and while it wasn't really our goal (we were just playing games!), it makes me happy that it was a side effect.

[toomanybeersies]

In Australia, they have (or were) using flying lessons to try and rehabilitate drug addicts [1]. Apparently the idea was to stall the plane and have the patients recover from the stall, as a way of teaching them about taking control of their own life. I don't know what the long term results are, and it's part of a longer term rehab program so it would be hard to narrow it down specifically.

Regardless, it's an interesting approach. It's good to see that authorities are realising that the traditional approaches to addiction and criminal rehabilitiation are ineffective and trying other options.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-australia-43369891/austral...

[J-dawg]

I've noticed people often object to these types of schemes because they see them as rewarding people for bad behaviour.

I'm not usually one of those people (If it works, it works, right?). But I feel like giving out flying lessons (a lifelong and unaffordable goal for many people) would be a pretty tough idea to sell to the tax paying public.

[sandworm101]

Having stalled aircraft many times, I don't see how this would be linked. Un-stalling is the easiest thing in the world (assuming you aren't close to the ground). Doing it perfectly to military standards takes practice, but simple recovery is a nothing task. Either way, it is done and over in seconds. It's a little scary if you haven't done it before, but after the first time it's nothing. Recovery from drug addiction takes years, requiring many thousands of difficult decisions.

[jazoom]

I can imagine the board meeting where they were discussing an alternative "high" they could offer the drug addicts.

[omeid2]

Slightly off topic but I would like to mention that if you play chess online, the best one is lichess.org. It is free and opensource: https://github.com/ornicar/lila.

I am unaffiliated but really like lichess.

[fernandopj]

They are indeed a great example of an OSS success. Their website is great, apps run smoothly, great community and a very active founder - he insists on the project being open and adfree forever, supported by patrons: https://lichess.org/patron

I'm also unaffiliated, just a user.

[c12]

Quite serendipitously you reminded me that lichess.org exists. Thank you for that.

[local_yokel]

Can also recommend lichess. Been playing there for a couple years now. They're a registered non-profit, and none of the features are hidden if you choose not to donate.

[simplify]

And written in mithril.js, no less! :)

[implements]

Season 1, episode 3 of "The Wire" has a pretty inciteful scene featuring Chess as a metaphor for the criminal life ("Pawns get capped early."):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztc7o0NzFrE

[SubiculumCode]

As much as I love the Wire, it should have mentioned that collectively pawns are the most powerful. A good pawn structure controls the center and the game.

[psergeant]

I’d be interested to see its effectiveness vs any other activity involving high quality time with intelligent, motivated, caring adults.

[SubiculumCode]

Chess limits the blame game. You lost because you didn't think, son. Chess encapsulates an attitude that it starts and ends with yourself.

[mondoshawan]

I do wonder, what, exactly they mean by non-violent crimes. It's early in the morning and my brain isn't quite up to snuff yet, but all I can think of are vandalism, copyright violation, and stealing...?

[chriskanan]

Most property crimes, such as theft, embezzlement, receipt of stolen goods, vandalism, and arson of personal property

Fraud, tax crimes, other forms of white collar crime

Drug and alcohol-related crimes

Prostitution

Racketeering and gambling

Bribery

From: https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/non-violent-v...

[retsibsi]

It would include drug crimes as well. I think you can take the words at face value (with an implied 'physically' modifying 'violent'), except that crimes involving only the threat of violence may count as violent crimes.

[dschuetz]

"Every move has consequences" - That is absolutely brilliant! Is there any better way to explain such an abstract life concept to kids who can't see the consequences of whatever they do?

[icebraining]

I know a few "problematic" kids, from slackers to convicted violent robbers, and none of them deny the existence of consequences. What I see is overconfidence in their ability to predict them, or a fatalism about their lack of real options.

I can see chess helping with some aspects of their mental health (training calm logical thinking, coping with losing), but I don't think it actually teaches anything about consequences.

[omeid2]

At the wake of all these concerns around video games, I am gonna risk it still and say Video Games.

It teaches a lot about consequences. Perhaps not on par with chess, because, most popular games demands much less exercise in deliberation and strategic(/critical?) thinking.

[magicalhippo]

Not just direct consequences, but indirect consequences such as opportunity cost.

Yes you took that pawn, but now your knight is in a vulnerable position... maybe there was a better play.

[leanthonyrn]

X-COM 2 has the same effect.

[ca98am79]

The great thing about chess is that it does not discriminate. A child can beat an adult, poor can beat rich, uneducated can beat educated, etc..

When I played as a kid, it gave me a lot of confidence because I could beat a grown adult in a game of intellect. This had a huge impact on my life.

[forkLding]

I wonder if Go is a better game, it is quite easy to pick up (surround opponents with different colour) but also very long to play.

[kazinator]

Chess will teach the youth to be better strategists, to better evade the authorities when they become adult offenders.

[RickJWagner]

I bet they cheat. :)

Seriously, it seems like it would encourage discipline, a good thing.