It’s 2018 and I still see people walking around with Windows laptop lids open because they presumably have no confidence in Windows’ ability to sensibly preserve state after closing the lid. Software matters, and how it integrates with hardware.
And I keep waiting for them to fix just the basics in Windows 10. Not utterly losing both the sizes and positions of all windows just because the laptop was undocked. Not failing to recognize the external display upon docking, despite the display working a few minutes earlier. Not completely failing to find files and apps based on how I typed them (“A” brings up “abc” but typing “ab” makes “abc” go away!?). Such a long list.
Not spying on me and not transmitting unknown to me personal information to unknown parties would be a killer feature.
I treat any windows machine as if it has a keylogger and submits all my activity to all major governments (maybe only one today and “all” in a few years when my data gets sold, shared or stolen).
> It’s 2018 and I still see people walking around with Windows laptop lids open because they presumably have no confidence in Windows’ ability to sensibly preserve state after closing the lid.
At my workplace it's about 60:40 Windows to Mac user ratio. Regardless of the machine, nobody closes the lid when moving in the office between desks and meeting rooms. So, I'd say it's probably not that.
> Not failing to recognize the external display upon docking, despite the display working a few minutes earlier.
Now that you mention it... I have exactly the same problem with rMBP since upgrading to 10.13.5. Just this monday morning I've spent 20 minutes checking all the cables and why it doesn't work, until I rebooted the machine and then it suddenly worked.
The first thing I always do on a new laptop (or install) is go into Power Settings and change the Closing Lid action from putting the computer to sleep to just turning off the screen.
It's surprising how many people never change the settings on their computers. Whenever I saw someone with the taskbar icons combined, I always asked them if they liked it that way, and they would say "No." So I always offered and they always accepted me going into the settings for them and changing it to 'never combine'.
> It’s 2018 and I still see people walking around with Windows laptop lids open because they presumably have no confidence in Windows’ ability to sensibly preserve state after closing the lid. Software matters, and how it integrates with hardware.
Interesting. I've never seen or even heard of this. Windows didn't do a great job at this in general like a decade ago and the Surface Pros had a bug that was eventually fixed relating to it but I've never heard or seen an issue beyond those. I have multiple Windows and Mac machines and they both do great at preserving state when closing the lid.
Yeah, I saw a dude in the elevator (this year) because his Windows 10 started installing updates when he shut it down, but he needed to leave the office.
I get so much crap when I say this online, but Windows is a complete shit show. Yeah, there are issues with macOS, but it is lightyears better. Yeah, I know Apple has dropped the ball on hardware, but my 5 year old MBP is just fine.
These are fair criticisms, but I don't think anybody has this nailed. I use a mix of Windows, Mac, and Linux, and have found myself walking around with the lid open in all three. Mac seems to handle what you describe better than everyone else, but it's far from perfect.
I have one monitor that used to work fine on Windows and Mac. After a software update the Mac only recognizes it about 1 in 20 tries of plugging and unplugging.
> Not completely failing to find files and apps based on how I typed them (“A” brings up “abc” but typing “ab” makes “abc” go away!?).
It's the 'basic' stuff like this and bizarre feeling UI pauses at blank windows that make it unbearable to work with. It's the opposite of snappy and constantly interrupts a productive workflow making me wonder 'why is it doing this' rather than thinking about my work. It's like having an essentially perfect phone that inexorably buzzes every 1-5 minutes (at random), you would throw it against the wall in less than a day.
I use Windows 10 at work and at home, and in my experience it's been more stable than Windows 7, which I similarly used at home and at work for years. Annoying mandatory updates aside (and now less annoying since you can control when they happen), Windows 10 is pretty much the same Windows experience as before, in a slightly different skin.
One thing I noticed that was fixed with Windows 10 that was a problem in Windows 7: my laptops now handle state properly after the lid is closed (assuming you use hibernate or sleep rather than just screen-off).
I have literally this same list of problems on MacOS. Connecting to external screens is apparently hard. MacOS also ignores commands to lock the screen until it’s done changing screens. :(
That's funny because I'm pretty sure Windows has a setting that you can set it to NOT go to sleep at all when you shut the lid, but MacBooks DO NOT have this feature.
> And I keep waiting for them to fix just the basics in Windows 10. Not utterly losing both the sizes and positions of all windows just because the laptop was undocked. Not failing to recognize the external display upon docking, despite the display working a few minutes earlier.
I use and seriously like OS X but...those are two of my biggest pet peeves with the OS. I constantly need to re-arrange my windows every time it notices that an external display had been added or removed, and it frequently (maybe 2 per week) will inexplicably refuse to recognise an external display until I go through a little dance of power cycling things, unplugging them, plugging them in, and trying again.
Worse, it also periodically stops working with my (bog standard USB) keyboard and mouse until I unplug them and plug them back in. It's amazing how confusing it can be trying to debug why a UI element isn't working when clicked until you determine that the computer has decided a modifier key is stuck down.
The Apple ecosystem was fantastically stable and reliable a few years back, but things are changing, sadly.
Mac has similar issues. Keeps losing bluetooth connections with mouse & keyboard, sometimes have to restart to recognize the display. Still does not have simple way to hide icons on desktop or to dock multiple windows and resize them without using a third party solution.
I’ve used windows since 3.11. Sure I’ve had a stint of Linux here and there, especially when I was young enough not to be bothered by the configuration.
I’ve never not liked windows, though I did skip both ME and 8, but windows 10 has been such an awful experience that I bought a mbp late 2015 version last year, and I doubt I’ll ever use windows as my main OS again.
I still use it at work, and while you avoid a lot of the shit, like auto-installed pre-installers for Facebook styled games in an enterprise setup, it still lowers the brightness of my screen when I undock it, even though I’ve specifically told it not to in every setting I’ve been able to find.
That’s just the tip of the iceberg, windows 10 is quite frankly the worst OS I’ve ever used.
This and other similar things are so often and easily ignored. I see people talking about Macs not supporting pro use. But hey, tell me, how am I going to power my 6 external displays on a Surface product of any kind?
I get that people want some more variety and excitement, and maybe feel like the Thunderbolt port thing is problematic (despite absolutely enabling my most “pro” setup I’ve ever had on my ’17 13” TB MBP) and obviously the keyboard design has issues.
But as a whole package it’s still the best commercial product you can buy in its space, and considering actual size, has no real competition even if you ignore the many, many software issues one faces when leaving the warm, design-loving embrace of the macOS software ecosystem.
I’ll reconsider this situation after Microsoft releases a Surface product that isn’t almost guaranteed to require one or more returns to the store and oh, yeah, has Thunderbolt 3 support so I can plug in 2 cables to get: 6 external displays (1 4k, 5 2560x*), NVMe speeds to external storage, gigabit ethernet, digital audio, SD card reader, spare ports, etc. etc. (aka OWC TB3 Dock with nearly every port in use.)
There are a few non-MS laptops that might handle the hardware requirements I meet with my current setup, but, nothing that couples the hardware with the Software. Show me even one single app that matches the care and design of Things for macOS + iOS, for example. These are things I use every. single. day. for nearly every. single task.
Frankly, I look forward to Apple fixing some of their issues with the MBP line and hopefully by then the situation with mobile processors will be improved enough to allow for some bigger memory footprints and the like, though, honestly, despite running minikube based workflows locally, I’ve never ran out of RAM at 16GB. I guess it’s because I don’t use Slack.
The instantaneous system wide search is my number one favorite thing about Mac OS. I wonder how many hours of my life I have spent waiting for a Windows explorer search to complete only to accidentally click on one of the results, hit back, and have it start the search all over.
Not utterly losing both the sizes and positions of all windows just because the laptop was undocked. Not failing to recognize the external display upon docking, despite the display working a few minutes earlier.
Both of my MacBook Pros (2015 and 2018, Sierra and High Sierra, respectively) exhibit this exact behavior.
I deliberately avoid letting my laptops go to sleep, and try not to unplug them from their monitors because I don't want to spend time re-positioning every single window and tool palette. It really defeats the purpose of having a laptop.
I used to leave my (very old) laptop lid open not because I didn't think it would restore properly but because it took much longer than I liked to come back from suspension. My new Thinkpad X1 Carbon restore quickly (much quicker than my much more powerful desktop even).
My understanding is that window size and positioning issues on Windows are a graphics card driver issue and it's up to the graphics card maker to finally fix it. I don't know the details though, that's just what I've read. It's obnoxious for sure.
People do that with both operating systems where I work and they’re both hit or miss which is why people do that. Am I exchanging messages from HN users through some kind of time portal to the Snow Leopard era? Apple has been dropping the ball big time with macOS for a while now and if you haven’t run into window rearranging, bizarre monitor connecting issues or kernel panics from docking I am insanely jealous.
Probably a moot issue with Connected Standby enabled laptops. It doesn't actually sleep - just puts everything in low power mode - my X1 consumes 0.3W in that mode and the desktop is right there as soon as I open the lid and place my finger on the FP reader!
That reminded me that I once had Windows XP and Vista RC1 installed as dual-boot. I was finishing slides in XP and closed the lid. When I opened it a few minutes later to give my presentation, it was running Vista.
I like to walk short distance with lids open to maintain wifi connection as I usualy keep remote connection to server. For longer walk distance, close the lid for easier walking.
Such articles always give too much importance to the hardware (which is somewhat important, no doubt) and not enough importance to the software.
Many people are looking for quality alternatives to Macbooks, Mac Mini, etc (myself included). Mac Mini hasn’t been updated for 4-5 years. So, I started setting up a Windows desktop as a Mac Mini replacement. But when it came to finding all the alternatives to the OS X software I was using, and when Windows started showing me notifications about “try Edge,” “give us your valuable feedback,” etc, I went back.
If only Ubuntu could have native MS Office (needed for docs from lawyers), Sketch / Adobe products (needed for working with our designers), etc!
The Surface Book also runs something I never want to deal with again: Windows 10.
I can't deal with a software that constantly gets in the way of my work. I gave Windows a lot of tries, but the latest edition was the last straw for me. Never going back.
Has anyone managed to get Linux booted on this thing and working well? I've been debating purchasing one, but I am afraid that I'll be stuck with Windows, which, for what I work on, makes hacking pretty difficult.
EDIT: Just as a note, I know about WSL (I use it at work), but I would greatly prefer to have Linux working on root. I have a lot of custom systemd setups, and I've become somewhat dependent on XMonad.
I hate MS, but this looks like a genuinely nice piece of hardware... I wonder if it can run anything other than Windows without being half broken, then I might be interested.
[Edit]
Looks like everyone is thinking the same thing :P Now who can we pay to invest a month hacking away at figuring out how to get all the bits of hardware working in Linux?
Following the link various others have posted here [1], it looks like the surface book 2 support isn't completely terrible, much better than i expected, but not amazing either... Broken things and things that require more effort are:
- Sleep S3 broken
- Video is dual nVidia GPU, requires bumblebee
- TouchPad and Pen broken, work with a custom Linux kernel
- PCI camera(s) not working
The touchpad is probably gona be the most annoying one.
I have to second this. We are an all Mac company, but service customers on Windows. For testing purposes, our company purchased a Surface Laptop (not a Surface Book), and I was blown away by the quality coming out of Microsoft.
As I use the Surface Laptop, I wish Apple would steal the design and apply it to a new MacBook Air.
The screen is excellent, and coming from the Mac world it is surprisingly how good having a touch screen is.
Battery life is great and smashes my 15” 2016 MacBook Pro. It reminds me of the good old days of MacBook Air (all day) battery life.
The keyboard has travel, but I had to swap around the “Windows Key” and “Ctl key” to stop going mad (I have 19 years of macOS shortcut muscle memory).
Microsoft reminds us that you can still have a USB-A port and SD Card Slot in a nice form factor. It is possible to escape the #DongleLife .
My only gripes are 1) Windows still pales in comparison to OS X 2) the power supply is proprietary (I really like USB-C chargers).
I guess as someone looking for a MacBook alternative within a small limit, doing PHP and design, this sounds great.
I recently moved from Linux to MacBook after 7(?) years of Linux an exploratory foray into Windows 10. I simply don't trust the Windows to get out of my way.
A simple problem in older Windows was trying to profile for speed. After going through the very slow startup, you gotta keep an eye on what's going to randomly start running. It's a pain, and not having to deal with this is a huge win for Linux and MacOS. In Windows, I turn off an item in startup and what do you know, it's still starting up, not because the machine started, but because I opened up a separate program, because clearly, a program I never use is now convenient because Windows says so.
I got this feeling like I don't have any ownership of my computer and OS. Sure, Windows looks nice and is usable, but it feels like I'm renting my operating system, and honestly, MacOS sort of feels the same. It's an odd feeling.
Windows 10 seems "good enough" for most people's common use-cases. There really isn't a good reason to spend 2x the money on MacOS over a Windows computer for 95% of users, and even many developers are just fine using Windows.
It was an interesting read, and I'm glad the author is enjoying the new computer.
I have a "good" Macbook pro (2015 Retina MBP) and a Surface Book and prefer the Surface Book for many of the same reasons the author does. (because I have poor impulse control I also have an iPad pro :-).
For development, the Surface with the Dock is just killer for me. On the road the iPad has the longest battery life and I use it in a consumption only mode but if I'm doing development I'll bring the Surface as well.
From a personal perspective it just feels like Microsoft is spending more of their attention to developers than Apple is over the last few years and their tools reflect that.
I looked at the surface book but ended up going with the T470P (i7-7700HQ/2560x1440) because it allowed me to put 32GB of RAM in it, 16Gb just isn't enough for my workflow (If I have a Win10 instance running in a VM for VS2017, a couple of vagrant instances and intellij open then I can eat 16GB in no time).
Also I've been a Linux user for development for >10 years and a mixed linux/windows user for another 10 or so before that, simply not giving up Linux at this point.
However pretty it was (and it was) 16Gb just isn't enough for me.
I don’t really understand the value of a touch screen on a laptop. Specially for a Software Developer. It is easier and quicker to move your hand (while typing) to the touch pad rather than to the display. I think TouchBar (which is underrated) makes sense because in that case you don’t need to move your hand up, it just is there along with the keyboard. Plus I really don’t like those huge touch-optimised buttons on Windows. A laptop is meant to be used with a mouse pointer which is much much more precise than a finger, hence allowing macOS to display smaller buttons maximising screen realestate.
> I’ve written about web development on Windows 10 before, but even since a year ago it’s come such a long way. The Bash on Windows environment is now so performant and well supported that you won’t even know the difference if you move from a MacBook, and Microsoft continues to improve it at an impressive clip.
> Unless you’re using Xcode, your workflow will almost certainly move from macOS to Windows as a non-event: it’s that good now, and I spend most of my time living in the Bash environment without any problems — even with complicated situations like Symlinks inside Bash now actually working fully.
[emphasis mine] Good for Microsoft if so, but I have to wonder if it's one of those situations where everything works well until you hit a brick wall and have to re-setup everything on Mac/Linux to stay productive.
This comment bothered me:
> Generally, the sticking point for designers is Sketch, which to date refuses to build a Windows client — a ridiculous, anti-user move that I hope eventually will cause people to reconsider it in their workflows.
Especially from a developer, that seems like a very uncharitable, demanding interpretation. Is there more to the story? Maybe the author being a web developer influences that view or he just loves Sketch and is bitter to have left it behind.
People don't consider reliability as much as they should when they buy a device. The Surface line has been known for poor reliability, with nearly a quarter of customers being affected for some products.
The time spent investigating an issue, arranging a repair, sending a device in, setting up on a backup device, and communicating with repairmen only to get an unfixed product back approaches a couple of days of lost productivity. Rules out the Surface Book 2 in my eyes.
I tried to switch from Mac back to PC and got the original Surface Book a few years ago. I really liked the detachable screen but otherwise I didn't find it very useable. The trackpad didn't register clicks a lot of the time and I had to press very hard when dragging so it didn't disengage. It was a bit too flimsy when typing on your lap. Also, all the weight is in the screen so touching the screen and using the keyboard means that you have to grab the back of the screen when pressing so you don't push the screen.
I wasn't happy with the performance either being that I needed something that could process RAW photos and do video editing. For general web browsing and coding I think it could work well.
I recently got the Dell XPS 15" and am working on converting my programming and photography workflows to Windows. So far everything seems to be going smoothly. Windows Subsystem for Linux really makes a difference and most stuff I've tried works flawlessly without change.
It really isn't everything the MacBook Pro should be. It's got an underpowered CPU due to thermal/power constraints of most of the computer being in a tablet form factor, and you're still limited at 16GB of RAM which really blows for a $3000 laptop in the age of Electron.
The thing that is consistently keeping me tied to the Mac is iMessage (and Xcode, but that can be more easily solved). Yes, I have my iPhone, but writing on Messages for Mac is just so much easier because full keyboard.
I am also wondering how Linux runs on this. A Windows-only machine is out of the question for me, but the hardware looks pretty solid. I'll consider buying one if I can get Fedora to play well with it.
[+] [-] makecheck|7 years ago|reply
And I keep waiting for them to fix just the basics in Windows 10. Not utterly losing both the sizes and positions of all windows just because the laptop was undocked. Not failing to recognize the external display upon docking, despite the display working a few minutes earlier. Not completely failing to find files and apps based on how I typed them (“A” brings up “abc” but typing “ab” makes “abc” go away!?). Such a long list.
[+] [-] andrei_says_|7 years ago|reply
I treat any windows machine as if it has a keylogger and submits all my activity to all major governments (maybe only one today and “all” in a few years when my data gets sold, shared or stolen).
This is a serious issue for me.
[+] [-] martin_ky|7 years ago|reply
At my workplace it's about 60:40 Windows to Mac user ratio. Regardless of the machine, nobody closes the lid when moving in the office between desks and meeting rooms. So, I'd say it's probably not that.
[+] [-] vetinari|7 years ago|reply
Now that you mention it... I have exactly the same problem with rMBP since upgrading to 10.13.5. Just this monday morning I've spent 20 minutes checking all the cables and why it doesn't work, until I rebooted the machine and then it suddenly worked.
[+] [-] Casseres|7 years ago|reply
It's surprising how many people never change the settings on their computers. Whenever I saw someone with the taskbar icons combined, I always asked them if they liked it that way, and they would say "No." So I always offered and they always accepted me going into the settings for them and changing it to 'never combine'.
[+] [-] BinaryIdiot|7 years ago|reply
Interesting. I've never seen or even heard of this. Windows didn't do a great job at this in general like a decade ago and the Surface Pros had a bug that was eventually fixed relating to it but I've never heard or seen an issue beyond those. I have multiple Windows and Mac machines and they both do great at preserving state when closing the lid.
[+] [-] e40|7 years ago|reply
I get so much crap when I say this online, but Windows is a complete shit show. Yeah, there are issues with macOS, but it is lightyears better. Yeah, I know Apple has dropped the ball on hardware, but my 5 year old MBP is just fine.
[+] [-] cornellwright|7 years ago|reply
I have one monitor that used to work fine on Windows and Mac. After a software update the Mac only recognizes it about 1 in 20 tries of plugging and unplugging.
[+] [-] alexbeloi|7 years ago|reply
It's the 'basic' stuff like this and bizarre feeling UI pauses at blank windows that make it unbearable to work with. It's the opposite of snappy and constantly interrupts a productive workflow making me wonder 'why is it doing this' rather than thinking about my work. It's like having an essentially perfect phone that inexorably buzzes every 1-5 minutes (at random), you would throw it against the wall in less than a day.
[+] [-] gamblor956|7 years ago|reply
One thing I noticed that was fixed with Windows 10 that was a problem in Windows 7: my laptops now handle state properly after the lid is closed (assuming you use hibernate or sleep rather than just screen-off).
[+] [-] wilde|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hammock|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Lazare|7 years ago|reply
I use and seriously like OS X but...those are two of my biggest pet peeves with the OS. I constantly need to re-arrange my windows every time it notices that an external display had been added or removed, and it frequently (maybe 2 per week) will inexplicably refuse to recognise an external display until I go through a little dance of power cycling things, unplugging them, plugging them in, and trying again.
Worse, it also periodically stops working with my (bog standard USB) keyboard and mouse until I unplug them and plug them back in. It's amazing how confusing it can be trying to debug why a UI element isn't working when clicked until you determine that the computer has decided a modifier key is stuck down.
The Apple ecosystem was fantastically stable and reliable a few years back, but things are changing, sadly.
[+] [-] perseusprime11|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eksemplar|7 years ago|reply
I’ve never not liked windows, though I did skip both ME and 8, but windows 10 has been such an awful experience that I bought a mbp late 2015 version last year, and I doubt I’ll ever use windows as my main OS again.
I still use it at work, and while you avoid a lot of the shit, like auto-installed pre-installers for Facebook styled games in an enterprise setup, it still lowers the brightness of my screen when I undock it, even though I’ve specifically told it not to in every setting I’ve been able to find.
That’s just the tip of the iceberg, windows 10 is quite frankly the worst OS I’ve ever used.
[+] [-] a_lieb|7 years ago|reply
To be fair, this one happens to me with Spotlight all the time.
[+] [-] ztjio|7 years ago|reply
I get that people want some more variety and excitement, and maybe feel like the Thunderbolt port thing is problematic (despite absolutely enabling my most “pro” setup I’ve ever had on my ’17 13” TB MBP) and obviously the keyboard design has issues.
But as a whole package it’s still the best commercial product you can buy in its space, and considering actual size, has no real competition even if you ignore the many, many software issues one faces when leaving the warm, design-loving embrace of the macOS software ecosystem.
I’ll reconsider this situation after Microsoft releases a Surface product that isn’t almost guaranteed to require one or more returns to the store and oh, yeah, has Thunderbolt 3 support so I can plug in 2 cables to get: 6 external displays (1 4k, 5 2560x*), NVMe speeds to external storage, gigabit ethernet, digital audio, SD card reader, spare ports, etc. etc. (aka OWC TB3 Dock with nearly every port in use.)
There are a few non-MS laptops that might handle the hardware requirements I meet with my current setup, but, nothing that couples the hardware with the Software. Show me even one single app that matches the care and design of Things for macOS + iOS, for example. These are things I use every. single. day. for nearly every. single task.
Frankly, I look forward to Apple fixing some of their issues with the MBP line and hopefully by then the situation with mobile processors will be improved enough to allow for some bigger memory footprints and the like, though, honestly, despite running minikube based workflows locally, I’ve never ran out of RAM at 16GB. I guess it’s because I don’t use Slack.
[+] [-] 0x00000000|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaysonelliot|7 years ago|reply
Both of my MacBook Pros (2015 and 2018, Sierra and High Sierra, respectively) exhibit this exact behavior.
I deliberately avoid letting my laptops go to sleep, and try not to unplug them from their monitors because I don't want to spend time re-positioning every single window and tool palette. It really defeats the purpose of having a laptop.
[+] [-] eco|7 years ago|reply
My understanding is that window size and positioning issues on Windows are a graphics card driver issue and it's up to the graphics card maker to finally fix it. I don't know the details though, that's just what I've read. It's obnoxious for sure.
[+] [-] brazzledazzle|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] krzat|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blinkingled|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dchest|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flamemyst|7 years ago|reply
I like to walk short distance with lids open to maintain wifi connection as I usualy keep remote connection to server. For longer walk distance, close the lid for easier walking.
[+] [-] JohnSully|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fortyseven|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dzhiurgis|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agentdrtran|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zumu|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sinatra|7 years ago|reply
Many people are looking for quality alternatives to Macbooks, Mac Mini, etc (myself included). Mac Mini hasn’t been updated for 4-5 years. So, I started setting up a Windows desktop as a Mac Mini replacement. But when it came to finding all the alternatives to the OS X software I was using, and when Windows started showing me notifications about “try Edge,” “give us your valuable feedback,” etc, I went back.
If only Ubuntu could have native MS Office (needed for docs from lawyers), Sketch / Adobe products (needed for working with our designers), etc!
[+] [-] throwawayqdhd|7 years ago|reply
I can't deal with a software that constantly gets in the way of my work. I gave Windows a lot of tries, but the latest edition was the last straw for me. Never going back.
[+] [-] tombert|7 years ago|reply
EDIT: Just as a note, I know about WSL (I use it at work), but I would greatly prefer to have Linux working on root. I have a lot of custom systemd setups, and I've become somewhat dependent on XMonad.
[+] [-] tomxor|7 years ago|reply
[Edit]
Looks like everyone is thinking the same thing :P Now who can we pay to invest a month hacking away at figuring out how to get all the bits of hardware working in Linux?
Following the link various others have posted here [1], it looks like the surface book 2 support isn't completely terrible, much better than i expected, but not amazing either... Broken things and things that require more effort are:
The touchpad is probably gona be the most annoying one.https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/comments/7kazwp/curren...
[+] [-] schappim|7 years ago|reply
As I use the Surface Laptop, I wish Apple would steal the design and apply it to a new MacBook Air.
The screen is excellent, and coming from the Mac world it is surprisingly how good having a touch screen is.
Battery life is great and smashes my 15” 2016 MacBook Pro. It reminds me of the good old days of MacBook Air (all day) battery life.
The keyboard has travel, but I had to swap around the “Windows Key” and “Ctl key” to stop going mad (I have 19 years of macOS shortcut muscle memory).
Microsoft reminds us that you can still have a USB-A port and SD Card Slot in a nice form factor. It is possible to escape the #DongleLife .
My only gripes are 1) Windows still pales in comparison to OS X 2) the power supply is proprietary (I really like USB-C chargers).
[+] [-] dizzystar|7 years ago|reply
I recently moved from Linux to MacBook after 7(?) years of Linux an exploratory foray into Windows 10. I simply don't trust the Windows to get out of my way.
A simple problem in older Windows was trying to profile for speed. After going through the very slow startup, you gotta keep an eye on what's going to randomly start running. It's a pain, and not having to deal with this is a huge win for Linux and MacOS. In Windows, I turn off an item in startup and what do you know, it's still starting up, not because the machine started, but because I opened up a separate program, because clearly, a program I never use is now convenient because Windows says so.
I got this feeling like I don't have any ownership of my computer and OS. Sure, Windows looks nice and is usable, but it feels like I'm renting my operating system, and honestly, MacOS sort of feels the same. It's an odd feeling.
Windows 10 seems "good enough" for most people's common use-cases. There really isn't a good reason to spend 2x the money on MacOS over a Windows computer for 95% of users, and even many developers are just fine using Windows.
It was an interesting read, and I'm glad the author is enjoying the new computer.
[+] [-] WesleyLivesay|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|7 years ago|reply
For development, the Surface with the Dock is just killer for me. On the road the iPad has the longest battery life and I use it in a consumption only mode but if I'm doing development I'll bring the Surface as well.
From a personal perspective it just feels like Microsoft is spending more of their attention to developers than Apple is over the last few years and their tools reflect that.
[+] [-] noir_lord|7 years ago|reply
Also I've been a Linux user for development for >10 years and a mixed linux/windows user for another 10 or so before that, simply not giving up Linux at this point.
However pretty it was (and it was) 16Gb just isn't enough for me.
[+] [-] timdorr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] madushan92|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ballenf|7 years ago|reply
> I’ve written about web development on Windows 10 before, but even since a year ago it’s come such a long way. The Bash on Windows environment is now so performant and well supported that you won’t even know the difference if you move from a MacBook, and Microsoft continues to improve it at an impressive clip.
> Unless you’re using Xcode, your workflow will almost certainly move from macOS to Windows as a non-event: it’s that good now, and I spend most of my time living in the Bash environment without any problems — even with complicated situations like Symlinks inside Bash now actually working fully.
[emphasis mine] Good for Microsoft if so, but I have to wonder if it's one of those situations where everything works well until you hit a brick wall and have to re-setup everything on Mac/Linux to stay productive.
This comment bothered me:
> Generally, the sticking point for designers is Sketch, which to date refuses to build a Windows client — a ridiculous, anti-user move that I hope eventually will cause people to reconsider it in their workflows.
Especially from a developer, that seems like a very uncharitable, demanding interpretation. Is there more to the story? Maybe the author being a web developer influences that view or he just loves Sketch and is bitter to have left it behind.
[+] [-] cncrnd|7 years ago|reply
The time spent investigating an issue, arranging a repair, sending a device in, setting up on a backup device, and communicating with repairmen only to get an unfixed product back approaches a couple of days of lost productivity. Rules out the Surface Book 2 in my eyes.
[+] [-] bcheung|7 years ago|reply
I wasn't happy with the performance either being that I needed something that could process RAW photos and do video editing. For general web browsing and coding I think it could work well.
I recently got the Dell XPS 15" and am working on converting my programming and photography workflows to Windows. So far everything seems to be going smoothly. Windows Subsystem for Linux really makes a difference and most stuff I've tried works flawlessly without change.
[+] [-] jrs95|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robbiet480|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dylrich|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] plandis|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] timdorr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] funwie|7 years ago|reply
Buy a PC with same price tag as a Mac. Use and then feedback.