[natecham]

To reach utopia the ends always justify the means, which in the past has resulted in trying to fit a population to an ideology. It's next to impossible to reverse the two, engineering an ideology that fits us, but very likely a target that we never stop working towards no matter the consequences along the way.

We seem to believe that reaching utopia will satisfy some ultimate survival need or help us reach some higher unforeseen goal, otherwise why would we commit such damaging acts against our own species in pursuit of it?

[Gibbon1]

> ends always justify the means

Read The Prince in high school. Took me 15 years to come up with a short appropriate response.

In civil society the means are your ends.

If the means you use to bring your utopia into the world are violent and ruthless then your utopia is also going to violent and ruthless. Not much of a utopia.

[natecham]

Yes, I agree, this is the point I wanted to make, that trying to fit a population to an ideology will cause the means to be violent and ruthless because in the eyes of the ruling class it is justified.

This brings us back to the parent comment where they mentioned this modern idea that mastery over human nature is possible. I think our understanding of human nature is still naive, especially in this relatively new environment with a global level of instant communication. We'll see more flawed aesthetics come into popularity based off a false sense of human nature.