Apple maps is an odd sort of problem for apple to have taken on.
First, it's Google head on. This is exactly the stuff where Google is very hard to beat. For Apple, it's a little outside their strengths. Too fiddly. Every damned place in the world has their own little public transport issues, data sources. Apple are more of a clever solution with the right compromises bunch than a "slog our way through 10 million random issues until a pattern emerges" bunch.
I like the moxy, but there's always going to be an "are we the new Bing?" cloud hanging over projects like this, unless and until they "win." All that said, I'm glad there is something out there that isn't google.
Agreed, but... they've already "won". Winning doesn't mean driving Google Maps out of existence, it just means being good enough that Google can't squeeze concessions out of Apple by threatening to yank GMaps.
A few years ago Apple disclosed that Apple Maps has 75% marketshare on iOS. [1] Mission accomplished.
What choice do they have? Maps, location data, and the services they enable are critical to mobile devices today, and will only get more so with AR and devices without screens.
“Everybody but Google” isn’t good enough judging by the current state of affairs, and Google doesn’t play by the same privacy rules as Apple, so they seem to have few options.
Google is doing a great job of making their mobile app a PITA to use. I just want to see a map, not a persistent screen filling list that refuses to be dismissed. If Apple were smart they would make it cross platform and strengthen their data collection with Android users.
I always understood it as avoiding a complete dependency on Google, since (some form of) Maps is a must-have feature for any modern smartphone. After the Schmidt/Android thing I think the Apple leadership basically assumed Google would screw them over sooner or later if they could.
Apple doesn't have to "win". Apple just needs to have something good enough for them to tightly integrate into their other services. Bing's purpose for Microsoft is both to be a revenue generator and to not be dependent on Google for search. Apple's only motivation for Maps is not to be dependent on Google for Maps and for integration into iOS.
Every time someone doesn't use Google Maps, Google loses ad revenue. If people don't use Apple's maps, Apple has lost nothing but a few bragging rights.
Maps is to Apple as G+ was to Google. Apple doesn't want to do it, they have to do it. They're afraid that without that category of data (in this case location, in G+'s case social versus Facebook), their overall product line won't be able to compete.
When Apple started working on Maps Google was the only game in town and they were certainly using that advantage. They set the terms for using peoples location, both for location awareness using Wi-Fi access points and for live traffic tracking. Also the good features were Android only (vector maps, navigation).
Shortly after Apple Maps was introduced Google suddenly came through with these features but they lost access to peoples location and being the default app for locations on iOS.
Keep in mind before Apple maps, Google maps did not exist on iOS for turn-by-turn nav... once Apple released maps Google quickly followed suite with adding turn-by-turn nav to Google maps for iOS.
At this point maps are a platform hygiene factor. If you're going to be Apple, you can't rely on Google or any other 3rd party vendor for what is seen by users as a basic feature.
Maps is more than streets and driving directions too. Increasingly I use Google Maps to find & post reviews of local restaurants and cafes and to find interesting new places to go when I'm traveling. Google Maps is in a completely different class for this kind of thing than Apple Maps. Lately it even links to relevant web articles about the best places to visit in a local area. All Apple Maps has to offer here is a sort of half baked integration with Foursquare and TripAdvisor.
At least Apple doesn’t market to me based on places I visit. Tim Cook cares deeply about this, the folks at Google — privacy is contrary to their business model. “Security” is important at Google, but privacy definitely isn’t.
Apple wants to allow users to make map data requests anonymously using a random identifier that changes frequently.
Google wants to link the device requesting map data to a particular user account.
Google was playing hardball and refusing to provide turn by turn directions (as they did on Android) unless Apple stopped protecting their user's privacy.
Rather than give in, Apple decided to roll their own mapping service.
It's all about the difference between how the two companies make money. Google chooses to monetize their users' data. For instance, using their location data to tell it's advertising customers that a user has entered a store that sells their product. More recently, they have started buying credit card purchase data from third party data brokers so they can go farther and inform an advertiser that someone who saw their ad ended up buying the product advertised.
This was not the point of creating Maps at all. It was to be able to approach the negotiating table with Google over maps from a more favorable position. Google was making certain demands to add turn-by-turn directions to the original maps app that Apple didn’t want to concede to.
I think you've nailed this on the head. I can't help but feel the whole "random huge messiness" of maps data must drive Apple to distraction, they're dealing with something that they can't control when their entire ethos is about fine tuning products to the nth degree...
I really don't think Apple is either capable or comfortable with dealing with the kind of messiness maps data represents vs google, who is essentially an expert on wrangling such data.
Apple makes phones, what are phones used for? Messaging, phone calls, maps, and cameras. Everything else is noise.
Of those four things, which has the most potential to monetize? Maps.
People look for restaurants, for gas, for hotels, for rentals, for real estate, Etc. All of those things are being offered by a vendor who would love to know when you're looking and would love to be able to put their pitch in front of you when you are.
Maps is to phones what the browser window is to laptops.
Something that drives me nuts about Google Maps is how much of it leads you to non-spatial lists of data. We are spatial beings asking spatial questions. Don't make me do the work of linking a list of restaurants to dots on the map. This is a significant cartographic challenge but I think it's key to making map software a joy to use.
I don't have an iOS device so I can't comment on current state, but I hope this gets first class attention.
If Apple staff are reading this - please fix this ridiculous issue - the fact metro stations show up at arbitrary levels of zoom. Zome show up at level x, some show at x+1, and some dissapear at x+1, meaning at many levels, you see some, not others.
Also - an option to basically always show metro/subway locations.
You jam the map full of stuff I'm not interested in - when I'm basically trying to find the subway stop.
A lot of people use the metro in cities. Almost everyone.
It's like the absence of a subway in the Silicon Valley makes you oblivious to 'master use cases'?
Also - I want to get rid of the address taking up a chunk on the screen but I want the pin to remain. Can you get that? So simple. Maybe leave the last few things pinned.
More generally the ability to have 'default' filters for the kinds of things you show and don't that are perhaps relevant to what I'm looking for.
So many nuanced rough edges, I feel you're going to have to spend some time in the field and spend time with users in a very, very detailed way to capture these little things to take it to the next level.
Is the consensus that Apple Maps _still_ sucks? Sure, the launch was horrible, but it's seen years of progress and nowadays I find it perfectly usable. I use it over Google Maps without hesitation.
Now I'm scared they're gonna break it again by rebuilding it. If it ain't broke (any more), don't fix it.
As a long time Google user who, for privacy reasons, migrated most of my stuff away from Google I welcome this effort. I've been using Apple Maps for some time now and it's better than it was at launch, though not as good as Google.
I hope their renewed effort to improve Apple Maps pays off mainly because of their privacy-first mentality.
Also, I've noticed that whenever I submit a request for them to fix something, say, a business that's not listed I get a response and the item fixed within a day or two.
I have been using Michelin maps for traveling in Europe and while the app fails in many regards it's really so much better in terms of useful data visible on the map and the maps are so nice looking.
We really took a big step backwards with Google Maps and the maps that are trying to be Google Maps. The maps are garish and have no useful details. I have to scroll and zoom around until the name of the street I'm currently in decides to appear.
And then those huge swathes of nothing. Random stores being indicated. But you always get an incomplete set of data. Not every store on the block or nothing.
Labeling in general is incredibly problematic in Google Maps. It's amazing to me that I can do a search for restaurants, hover over a shopping strip that I know has 5 restaurants, and only one of them shows up no matter how far I zoom in. I'll wonder if Google just doesn't have data for the other four, do a direct search for one of them, and then find that it actually has loads of data, 100+ reviews, links to the menu, photos, etc.
This is a road through a forest [0]. Good luck seeing anything while using your phone outside in the sun. I use other maps when walking or biking, Google maps are almost never the best option.
> zoom around until the name of the street I'm currently in decides to appear.
This is especially bad if you're on a bus and want to see where the stops are, so you know when to ring the bell. GMaps makes you zoom so far in that you're constantly scrolling the map to keep up with the bus.
You've made me curious. I'll download it next time I go someplace.
This is totally off topic... Michelin have the same old school European thing for travellers that Guinness have for drinkers, a cause for those with a cause. I like the idea they pulled off an app that's good. I bet the Guinness app is shite.
Also check out Mapy.cz (for iOS, Android, web). I find it much better than Google Maps for the hiking / walking use cases. It sucks for the "looking for a nearby restaurant" use case though.
I honestly think this is a hidden gem that more people should know about.
One of my gripes with iOS is the ability to select a default maps app. It bothers me that when I try to share my location through iMessage, it forces me to view the information by opening apple maps and you cannot copy and paste the location into another mapping app. I believe this was a terrible strategy to get users to use apple maps.
The one view that both Apple and Google seem to promote is the 3D geometric view of buildings and other large fixed objects like trees. While the technical achievement of generating these views impressive, I don't find them useful, and frequently find that it makes viewing the satellite view more-difficult to perceive. Google still provides the "flat" satellite view, but it's somewhat buried in the menus. Bing Maps used to provide very high-resolution 45 degree shot photographed from airplanes, but this is no longer available.
>Bing Maps used to provide very high-resolution 45 degree shot photographed from airplanes, but this is no longer available.
Bing still has this feature, though they've updated it (made it less discoverable, I feel) and removed older photos. If you go to https://www.bing.com/maps and point at the "Road" menu on the upper right, you will see "We have updated Bird's Eye. Learn more", which gives you the following information:
>Bird's Eye has changed
> New and crisp Bird's Eye imagery is available in many metropolitan areas. There are two ways of viewing the new Bird's Eye.
>1. In cards
>2. Right-click on the map
>Note: Bird's Eye may not be available in your area as outdated imagery is no longer available.
If I go to central San Francisco or Seattle, I can right-click the map as indicated and select "View bird's eye", and the picture will show up.
Google and Apple are not the only players in this game.
As, relevant to this story is the announcement today that Microsoft / Bing has just released 125,000,000 building footprints as open data (i.e. suitable for OpenStreetMap)
Apple should really make a web version of maps. iProduct exclusivity is not going to help them with Maps. Having another web alternative to Google maps could even help with iProduct sales.
They just did. It’s called MapKit JS, though currently it’s only available for inclusion into third party websites. But Apple could offer their own website for it if wanted.
I'm very ready to move off of Google Maps, but as of yet, I can't emulate the biggest feature it has for me elsewhere: a spacial bookmarking system. My primary use of Google Maps is to remember places that I've been recommended by other people, and then when I go "I'm traveling to Portland, what places should I go?" I can check Google maps for everywhere I've tagged before.
If Apple Maps gives me that, especially if it syncs from a webapp to my phone, I'm in.
In order to satisfy my desire to rage against the machine, I like to set a destination in the opposite direction of where I'm driving, and listen to the voice navigation system desperately try to talk me into making a U-turn. It would be even more satisfying if the speech synthesizer's tone of voice grew increasingly frustrated and baffled, as I ignored its futile pleas while driving further away from my stated destination.
With Waze, the ubiquity of Google Maps, improvements in city traffic data and AI tech, I'm genuinely surprised Google still uses 1km as a measurement form versus prioritizing time in minutes.
In my urban driving experience I rarely consider distance over other factors, such as time and/or comfort of the drive.
In my city I will often make alternative choices not based on distance, but on the amount of effort I need to put into the ride itself. Right now I'm just waiting for my lady and when she gets in the car I'm not taking the fastest route at all, but the most leisurely route to our brunch.
Am I alone in feeling these are two different yet valid (more than just me) forms of user experience?
Will they finally create a map app that shows street names? Even Google can't seem to accomplish this without a ton of scrolling around and zooming in and out to get the name to show up.
These apps are really more for navigation than maps in my experience.
I'd love it if any of the map makers had a button for "I am on a bus", which then i) sent a ton of data to them to improve their maps and ii) provided a more useful map version.
one common comment is how the traffic data for google maps (and waze) trumps the quality of other map alternatives because it has the most users and therefore the most data for real-time traffic.
could anyone with map/traffic experience please comment on when data scale overshoots functional requirements? that is, what is the user threshold (e.g., 1,000 users in the same 5 mile radius) above which traffic accuracy stops improving?
[+] [-] dalbasal|7 years ago|reply
First, it's Google head on. This is exactly the stuff where Google is very hard to beat. For Apple, it's a little outside their strengths. Too fiddly. Every damned place in the world has their own little public transport issues, data sources. Apple are more of a clever solution with the right compromises bunch than a "slog our way through 10 million random issues until a pattern emerges" bunch.
I like the moxy, but there's always going to be an "are we the new Bing?" cloud hanging over projects like this, unless and until they "win." All that said, I'm glad there is something out there that isn't google.
[+] [-] cwp|7 years ago|reply
A few years ago Apple disclosed that Apple Maps has 75% marketshare on iOS. [1] Mission accomplished.
[1] https://apnews.com/df90458e58564f19b4b7c8510f9baa67/apple-ma...
[+] [-] macintux|7 years ago|reply
What choice do they have? Maps, location data, and the services they enable are critical to mobile devices today, and will only get more so with AR and devices without screens.
“Everybody but Google” isn’t good enough judging by the current state of affairs, and Google doesn’t play by the same privacy rules as Apple, so they seem to have few options.
[+] [-] kevin_thibedeau|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] biztos|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scarface74|7 years ago|reply
Every time someone doesn't use Google Maps, Google loses ad revenue. If people don't use Apple's maps, Apple has lost nothing but a few bragging rights.
[+] [-] munificent|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tinus_hn|7 years ago|reply
Shortly after Apple Maps was introduced Google suddenly came through with these features but they lost access to peoples location and being the default app for locations on iOS.
[+] [-] cpuguy83|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amazingman|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cageface|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] briandear|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GeekyBear|7 years ago|reply
Apple wants to allow users to make map data requests anonymously using a random identifier that changes frequently.
Google wants to link the device requesting map data to a particular user account.
Google was playing hardball and refusing to provide turn by turn directions (as they did on Android) unless Apple stopped protecting their user's privacy.
Rather than give in, Apple decided to roll their own mapping service.
It's all about the difference between how the two companies make money. Google chooses to monetize their users' data. For instance, using their location data to tell it's advertising customers that a user has entered a store that sells their product. More recently, they have started buying credit card purchase data from third party data brokers so they can go farther and inform an advertiser that someone who saw their ad ended up buying the product advertised.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/607938/google-now-tracks-...
[+] [-] drakenot|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DavideNL|7 years ago|reply
... because Google/Android abuses peoples privacy by following them everywhere, which gives them an advantage/much more data.
"Google admits it tracked user location data even when the setting was turned off" : https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/21/16684818/google-location...
[+] [-] dageshi|7 years ago|reply
I really don't think Apple is either capable or comfortable with dealing with the kind of messiness maps data represents vs google, who is essentially an expert on wrangling such data.
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|7 years ago|reply
Of those four things, which has the most potential to monetize? Maps.
People look for restaurants, for gas, for hotels, for rentals, for real estate, Etc. All of those things are being offered by a vendor who would love to know when you're looking and would love to be able to put their pitch in front of you when you are.
Maps is to phones what the browser window is to laptops.
[+] [-] eksemplar|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] forgot-my-pw|7 years ago|reply
Latest entry in Dec 2017: How far ahead of Apple Maps is Google Maps? https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat
[+] [-] Waterluvian|7 years ago|reply
I don't have an iOS device so I can't comment on current state, but I hope this gets first class attention.
[+] [-] sonnyblarney|7 years ago|reply
Also - an option to basically always show metro/subway locations.
You jam the map full of stuff I'm not interested in - when I'm basically trying to find the subway stop.
A lot of people use the metro in cities. Almost everyone.
It's like the absence of a subway in the Silicon Valley makes you oblivious to 'master use cases'?
Also - I want to get rid of the address taking up a chunk on the screen but I want the pin to remain. Can you get that? So simple. Maybe leave the last few things pinned.
More generally the ability to have 'default' filters for the kinds of things you show and don't that are perhaps relevant to what I'm looking for.
So many nuanced rough edges, I feel you're going to have to spend some time in the field and spend time with users in a very, very detailed way to capture these little things to take it to the next level.
[+] [-] Edd314159|7 years ago|reply
Now I'm scared they're gonna break it again by rebuilding it. If it ain't broke (any more), don't fix it.
[+] [-] beaconfield|7 years ago|reply
I hope their renewed effort to improve Apple Maps pays off mainly because of their privacy-first mentality.
Also, I've noticed that whenever I submit a request for them to fix something, say, a business that's not listed I get a response and the item fixed within a day or two.
[+] [-] dep_b|7 years ago|reply
We really took a big step backwards with Google Maps and the maps that are trying to be Google Maps. The maps are garish and have no useful details. I have to scroll and zoom around until the name of the street I'm currently in decides to appear.
And then those huge swathes of nothing. Random stores being indicated. But you always get an incomplete set of data. Not every store on the block or nothing.
[+] [-] nilkn|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sorenjan|7 years ago|reply
[0] https://i.imgur.com/IRJpNZZ.png
[+] [-] DanBC|7 years ago|reply
This is especially bad if you're on a bus and want to see where the stops are, so you know when to ring the bell. GMaps makes you zoom so far in that you're constantly scrolling the map to keep up with the bus.
[+] [-] nmeofthestate|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dalbasal|7 years ago|reply
This is totally off topic... Michelin have the same old school European thing for travellers that Guinness have for drinkers, a cause for those with a cause. I like the idea they pulled off an app that's good. I bet the Guinness app is shite.
[+] [-] dhruvarora013|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RivieraKid|7 years ago|reply
I honestly think this is a hidden gem that more people should know about.
[+] [-] 7ero|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joshe|7 years ago|reply
Can't find pricing after the free tier, maybe they'll announce it after the beta is over.
Once out of beta this would be a good choice if you have a lot of map views.
[+] [-] askvictor|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ksec|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] uptown|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hyperrail|7 years ago|reply
Bing still has this feature, though they've updated it (made it less discoverable, I feel) and removed older photos. If you go to https://www.bing.com/maps and point at the "Road" menu on the upper right, you will see "We have updated Bird's Eye. Learn more", which gives you the following information:
>Bird's Eye has changed
> New and crisp Bird's Eye imagery is available in many metropolitan areas. There are two ways of viewing the new Bird's Eye.
>1. In cards
>2. Right-click on the map
>Note: Bird's Eye may not be available in your area as outdated imagery is no longer available.
If I go to central San Francisco or Seattle, I can right-click the map as indicated and select "View bird's eye", and the picture will show up.
[+] [-] thinkingemote|7 years ago|reply
As, relevant to this story is the announcement today that Microsoft / Bing has just released 125,000,000 building footprints as open data (i.e. suitable for OpenStreetMap)
https://blogs.bing.com/maps/2018-06/microsoft-releases-125-m...
[+] [-] djsumdog|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jw1224|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BillinghamJ|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Juxtaposedwords|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skygazer|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noirbot|7 years ago|reply
If Apple Maps gives me that, especially if it syncs from a webapp to my phone, I'm in.
[+] [-] DonHopkins|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] misterhtmlcss|7 years ago|reply
In my urban driving experience I rarely consider distance over other factors, such as time and/or comfort of the drive.
In my city I will often make alternative choices not based on distance, but on the amount of effort I need to put into the ride itself. Right now I'm just waiting for my lady and when she gets in the car I'm not taking the fastest route at all, but the most leisurely route to our brunch.
Am I alone in feeling these are two different yet valid (more than just me) forms of user experience?
[+] [-] mulmen|7 years ago|reply
These apps are really more for navigation than maps in my experience.
[+] [-] growt|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DanBC|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] panabee|7 years ago|reply
could anyone with map/traffic experience please comment on when data scale overshoots functional requirements? that is, what is the user threshold (e.g., 1,000 users in the same 5 mile radius) above which traffic accuracy stops improving?