Tried Haiku recently and was much impressed with speed and stability but without being able to scale to 1920x1080 and having no multi-user capacity it's hard to see how this fits into modern computing environment.. still, one can hope the project sees improvements - I've tracked Haiku along with ReactOS for potential real world usage for years now.. so.. any day now.
EDIT: congratulations with LibreOffice port, that does make a difference in terms of usability.
Probably because you're on the VESA driver, which can only use whatever resolutions are embedded in your GPU. The `radeon_hd` driver works best, and on those you can scale to a lot more resolutions; I know some users who run at 1440p.
> and having no multi-user capacity
That's not quite true; we have POSIX multiuser already, so you can `useradd`, `chown`, ssh in to other users, etc. The GUI does not support multiuser yet, but that's partially for BeOS compatibility (on 32-bit), and partially because nobody has had any time to work on it (all other platforms.)
> having no multi-user capacity it's hard to see how this fits into modern computing environment
Depends on what you mean by "modern computing environment". I mean, my computers are mine, an no-one else uses them. I know very few people that share their computer with other users (but maybe it's just my bubble).
Another story entirely for those who use a smartphone/tablet for their personal computing (the target use of Haiku).
I find multi user capability a mixed bag. On one hand, I'm sick of typing my password(*nix)/allow(NT) for every trivial thing on modern systems. If I'm going to run as administrator, I might as well run on a single user system.
On the other hand, when I let someone else use my PC (wife/child/friend), I would like them to run in another environment. Also when trying random downloaded applications. In this scenario, multi user makes sense.
Multiuser is on the agenda for Haiku R2, and seeing how well they resolved the package management system, I expect multiuser R2 will be a thing of beauty.
The use case for ReactOS is going to occur soon, or already is. And that's supporting older peripherals on new machines that cannot run Windows XP. Right now I've got a failing computer with an audio interface that doesn't have Windows 10 drivers. Upgrading to a new machine would require a new audio interface. But with ReactOS I'd probably be able to keep using the existing drivers. (As it is, the card is still supported on Windows 7 so I'm using that.)
Some day there will be a backlash against UX design that fetishizes minimalism, hiding features, and rearranging the deck chairs every six months. And on that day, when the masses go searching for a simple, organic interface that has logical menus and often used functionality exposed by buttons, I like to imagine that Haiku will be waiting there to salve the weary souls of my fellow travers.
If you don't like modern UIs, I'd recommend Linux today. The main Ubuntu has all the crazy UI changes that I stopped following long time ago, but all the old stuff is still in repos.
Almost 20 years later, the "blackbox" package is still around: https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/blackbox . You can install it, choose it in the dropdown from the login screen and start using it. Or get a version of Ubuntu with this stuff pre-configured (like xubuntu or lubuntu)
And the best part? You have all the modern software -- browsers, editors, compilers. You can be fully productive and enjoy the stable UI
This is a massive achievement. Being able to run a modern browser and an Office Suite makes it a viable desktop alternative in the coming future. I'm happy to see variety in the desktop OS space once again!
What makes Haiku better for personal computing, from the end-user perspective? Or to put it in another perspective, who is the eventual target user for Haiku? I'd like to find an excuse to test it out even knowing it's in alpha stages, but this seems to be missing from the FAQs. The only noteworthy statement is that it is fast, efficient, and easy to use. I'm not sure if those are sticking points for most users.
> Linux-based distributions stack up software – the Linux kernel, the X Window System, and various DEs with disparate toolkits such as GTK+ and Qt – that do not necessarily share the same guidelines and/or goals. This lack of consistency and overall vision manifests itself in increased complexity, insufficient integration, and inefficient solutions, making the use of your computer more complicated than it should actually be.
> Instead, Haiku has a single focus on personal computing and is driven by a unified vision for the whole OS. That, we believe, enables Haiku to provide a leaner, cleaner and more efficient system capable of providing a better user experience that is simple and uniform throughout.
In its time, BeOS (which Haiku intends to clone) was super fast and had a minimalistic UI that was very joyful to use compared to Windows and Linux back then.
I wasn't too familiar with C++ or filesystems to comment on the veracity of the claims, but my understanding is they also exposed some seriously good APIs for the time and a neat filesystem. But as an end-user I would raise that there were a few very avant-garde apps - to me at least.
But that was over 15 years ago... Everything has been moving forward fast since. Hardware (an iPhone 4 was as powerful as Deep Blue), software, languages, libraries, network speeds, computing paradigms, etc.
Put another way, it's basically ... cool, but meh.
As a former BeOS user for a while, I've been looking every now and then at Haiku out of curiosity, hoping it would soon come out and pick up momentum. But in all honesty, and as much as I respect the impressive work the team poured into it, progress has been so slow and there has been so much to catch up with since that I suspect it'll be too little too late to make any difference by the time there's a stable release. Then again, who knows...
I love it’s old school interface. It’s C++ API is old-school, for better or worse, so developing for it isn’t as nice as I would prefer, but for computing — documents, personal information management, and so on, I find it very enjoyable to use. And damned snappy, too.
Would I prefer a Linux distribution with a window manager/desktop based on Haiku/BeOS? Probably. A modern one that supported HiDPI would be amazing. One can dream...
If more and more software continues to be ported though, I’m not wedded to any one kernel. If I could do my entire job in Haiku, I would. It’s amazing to watch it get better and better as the years go on!
> What makes Haiku better for personal computing, from the end-user perspective?
It is a clone of BeOS which was much faster/responsive than Linux or Windows at the time (probably due to its use of multithreading).
It is an OS which target desktops, so it's a bit more integrated and coherent than the collection of software that Linux has.
But they decided to not use Linux/*BSD as their base kernel so they are in perpetual alpha/beta..
I think the UI is cool. I like the way that windows can dock together. The application APIs are (reportedly) very good. Still destined to be a curiosity.
I learned about the Haiku project in 2009, when I was in college. I was impressed by the community and I'm still a little sad that the hardware we wanted to use for prototyping (a tablet PC) got stuck in customs for a long time, so that we couldn't build the prototype we wanted (based on the Haiku OS).
I'm still very impressed by the community, and I wish you all the best!
So, I looked into NewOS, the kernel that Haiku is based off of. It hasn't been updated in 10 years (I gather that Haiku's fork has taken most of the attention, so that's neither here or there). That said, I found this amusing:
> The system currently can be built to run on the follwing systems:
> Intel IA-32 (x86) - Tested on desktops through 4-way servers
> Sega Dreamcast - Hitachi SH-4
> PPC based machines - G3/G4 Macs, Pegasos
> A big issue with Haiku is that there really isn’t a modern web browser available right now.
The web browsers available to Haiku are all based on a recent version of WebKit (As of now we have merged commits from upstream dating from 2018), the same engine in Safari and it also allowed QtWebKit-based apps to run, previously Otto browser and Qupzilla until they migrated to QtWebEngine (based on the Blink engine which we don't have yet). So to me, that seems to be modern for a web browser that has HTML5 and can also play YouTube videos.
Also, I have just replied to your comment on a recent 64 bit Haiku nightly in WebPositive.
Out of curiosity, does anyone run Haiku full time? I remember seeing a video on it a few years ago, but wasn't sure if it would do everything I wanted.
A few developers do, and I know of one company that deploys Haiku commercially (TuneTracker: http://tunetrackersystems.com/).
I haven't reached that point myself; I'm still missing WiFi support on my laptop (hence why there's so many commits from me working on that area of the system recently ;) But I'm getting close.
Haiku is a recreation of BeOS built on the NewOS kernel (not Linux). BeOS (and therefore Haiku) had some neat features like a database built into the FS, was designed to take advantage of multiprocessor systems, and put a lot of effort into providing great multimedia capabilities.
From my perspective, the project seemed to have been taken over by Linux Desktop people, introduced a package manager, and I completely lost interest in it. In that respect, it's basically a much less functional Linux distro.
Last time I heard about this OS was when it was mentioned in XKCD[0]. Out of curiosity I downloaded the image, installed it on a VM and played around a little. Later I forgot about it almost completely.
Nice to see that this project didn't die and is making some decent progress.
For context re: Haiku OS (I had not heard of it before)
From the project home page [0]:
> Haiku is an open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. Inspired by the BeOS, Haiku is fast, simple to use, easy to learn and yet very powerful.
From the wiki page [1]:
> Haiku is a free and open-source operating system compatible with the now discontinued BeOS. Its development began in 2001, and the operating system became self-hosting in 2008. The first alpha release was made in September 2009, and the most recent was November 2012; development is ongoing as of 2018 with nightly releases.
[+] [-] dingdingdang|7 years ago|reply
EDIT: congratulations with LibreOffice port, that does make a difference in terms of usability.
[+] [-] waddlesplash|7 years ago|reply
Probably because you're on the VESA driver, which can only use whatever resolutions are embedded in your GPU. The `radeon_hd` driver works best, and on those you can scale to a lot more resolutions; I know some users who run at 1440p.
> and having no multi-user capacity
That's not quite true; we have POSIX multiuser already, so you can `useradd`, `chown`, ssh in to other users, etc. The GUI does not support multiuser yet, but that's partially for BeOS compatibility (on 32-bit), and partially because nobody has had any time to work on it (all other platforms.)
[+] [-] klez|7 years ago|reply
Depends on what you mean by "modern computing environment". I mean, my computers are mine, an no-one else uses them. I know very few people that share their computer with other users (but maybe it's just my bubble).
Another story entirely for those who use a smartphone/tablet for their personal computing (the target use of Haiku).
[+] [-] smallstepforman|7 years ago|reply
On the other hand, when I let someone else use my PC (wife/child/friend), I would like them to run in another environment. Also when trying random downloaded applications. In this scenario, multi user makes sense.
Multiuser is on the agenda for Haiku R2, and seeing how well they resolved the package management system, I expect multiuser R2 will be a thing of beauty.
[+] [-] whoopdedo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] navjack27|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peatmoss|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] theamk|7 years ago|reply
For example, this is blackbox 0.60.0 window manager, released around 2000: https://www.linux.org.ru/gallery/screenshots/19788
Almost 20 years later, the "blackbox" package is still around: https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/blackbox . You can install it, choose it in the dropdown from the login screen and start using it. Or get a version of Ubuntu with this stuff pre-configured (like xubuntu or lubuntu)
And the best part? You have all the modern software -- browsers, editors, compilers. You can be fully productive and enjoy the stable UI
[+] [-] fmoralesc|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dragonquest|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matthiaswh|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] waddlesplash|7 years ago|reply
> Linux-based distributions stack up software – the Linux kernel, the X Window System, and various DEs with disparate toolkits such as GTK+ and Qt – that do not necessarily share the same guidelines and/or goals. This lack of consistency and overall vision manifests itself in increased complexity, insufficient integration, and inefficient solutions, making the use of your computer more complicated than it should actually be.
> Instead, Haiku has a single focus on personal computing and is driven by a unified vision for the whole OS. That, we believe, enables Haiku to provide a leaner, cleaner and more efficient system capable of providing a better user experience that is simple and uniform throughout.
[+] [-] ddebernardy|7 years ago|reply
I wasn't too familiar with C++ or filesystems to comment on the veracity of the claims, but my understanding is they also exposed some seriously good APIs for the time and a neat filesystem. But as an end-user I would raise that there were a few very avant-garde apps - to me at least.
But that was over 15 years ago... Everything has been moving forward fast since. Hardware (an iPhone 4 was as powerful as Deep Blue), software, languages, libraries, network speeds, computing paradigms, etc.
Put another way, it's basically ... cool, but meh.
As a former BeOS user for a while, I've been looking every now and then at Haiku out of curiosity, hoping it would soon come out and pick up momentum. But in all honesty, and as much as I respect the impressive work the team poured into it, progress has been so slow and there has been so much to catch up with since that I suspect it'll be too little too late to make any difference by the time there's a stable release. Then again, who knows...
[+] [-] girvo|7 years ago|reply
Would I prefer a Linux distribution with a window manager/desktop based on Haiku/BeOS? Probably. A modern one that supported HiDPI would be amazing. One can dream...
If more and more software continues to be ported though, I’m not wedded to any one kernel. If I could do my entire job in Haiku, I would. It’s amazing to watch it get better and better as the years go on!
[+] [-] renox|7 years ago|reply
It is a clone of BeOS which was much faster/responsive than Linux or Windows at the time (probably due to its use of multithreading).
It is an OS which target desktops, so it's a bit more integrated and coherent than the collection of software that Linux has. But they decided to not use Linux/*BSD as their base kernel so they are in perpetual alpha/beta..
[+] [-] cwyers|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mastax|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nallerooth|7 years ago|reply
I'm still very impressed by the community, and I wish you all the best!
[+] [-] cwyers|7 years ago|reply
> The system currently can be built to run on the follwing systems: > Intel IA-32 (x86) - Tested on desktops through 4-way servers > Sega Dreamcast - Hitachi SH-4 > PPC based machines - G3/G4 Macs, Pegasos
Sega Dreamcast!
[+] [-] smallstepforman|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Avshalom|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] projectramo|7 years ago|reply
LibreOffice is on Haiku
Haiku is complete
[+] [-] pingiun|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] navjack27|7 years ago|reply
https://navjack27.netlify.com/post/a-modern-os-haikuos-/
[+] [-] return_0e|7 years ago|reply
The web browsers available to Haiku are all based on a recent version of WebKit (As of now we have merged commits from upstream dating from 2018), the same engine in Safari and it also allowed QtWebKit-based apps to run, previously Otto browser and Qupzilla until they migrated to QtWebEngine (based on the Blink engine which we don't have yet). So to me, that seems to be modern for a web browser that has HTML5 and can also play YouTube videos.
Also, I have just replied to your comment on a recent 64 bit Haiku nightly in WebPositive.
[+] [-] bmn__|7 years ago|reply
https://cn.pling.com/img/hive/content-pre2/5965-2.png
https://discuss.haiku-os.org/uploads/default/original/2X/e/e...
[+] [-] badsectoracula|7 years ago|reply
[1] https://i.imgur.com/emP3Jk4.png (not my shot)
[+] [-] tombert|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] waddlesplash|7 years ago|reply
I haven't reached that point myself; I'm still missing WiFi support on my laptop (hence why there's so many commits from me working on that area of the system recently ;) But I'm getting close.
[+] [-] smallstepforman|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HappyFapMachine|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tr33house|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AnIdiotOnTheNet|7 years ago|reply
From my perspective, the project seemed to have been taken over by Linux Desktop people, introduced a package manager, and I completely lost interest in it. In that respect, it's basically a much less functional Linux distro.
[+] [-] waddlesplash|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] krylon|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rubyfan|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tade0|7 years ago|reply
Nice to see that this project didn't die and is making some decent progress.
[0]https://3d.xkcd.com/806/
[+] [-] fithisux|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chatmasta|7 years ago|reply
From the project home page [0]:
> Haiku is an open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. Inspired by the BeOS, Haiku is fast, simple to use, easy to learn and yet very powerful.
From the wiki page [1]:
> Haiku is a free and open-source operating system compatible with the now discontinued BeOS. Its development began in 2001, and the operating system became self-hosting in 2008. The first alpha release was made in September 2009, and the most recent was November 2012; development is ongoing as of 2018 with nightly releases.
[0] https://www.haiku-os.org/
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)
[+] [-] waddlesplash|7 years ago|reply
And see also our FAQ, since a lot of these questions wind up getting asked on these HN threads: https://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq/
[+] [-] jlebrech|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] klez|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DeathArrow|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] DominoTree|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Proven|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]