CO2 shortage: Lessons learned from a storm in a pint glass?

[barbegal]

A better article about from an industry insider is https://www.gasworld.com/co2-shortage-lessons-learned/201500...

An interesting fact that he picks out is that coordinating shutdown periods between suppliers would be in breach of anti-competition rules.

The crisis has overall highlighted the fact that shared production can cause issues. Ammonia is worth about $50 billion whereas CO2 is worth about $7 billion worldwide. This makes the CO2 market about 7 times more inelastic in supply than ammonia.

[dang]

Ok, we changed the URL to that from https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/07/europes-.... Who can resist Gasworld magazine?

[upofadown]

>...that coordinating shutdown periods between suppliers would be in breach of anti-competition rules.

Is this likely to be true? My, perhaps limited, understanding is that collusion is only evidence of illegal anti-competitive behaviour and is not illegal in itself...

[jimnotgym]

I asked an expert in the beer trade about this recently and some of the big breweries (Molson Coors who make UK bestseller Carling, for instance) make their own CO2 for supply chain security.

[barbegal]

Technical details of this plant can be found at https://foodandbeverage.pentair.com/~/media/websites/food-an...

This is possible because Molson Coors has the largest brewery in the UK and can brew CO2 producing ales and CO2 consuming lagers on the same site. For other brewers this investment wouldn't be economical.

[yread]

Fermentation produces huge amounts of CO2 and some breweries collect it and sell it as a byproduct

[sandworm101]

I thought beer was naturally carbonated! Not being a drinker, I never gave it much thought.

[phillc73]

At least nitrogen powered Guinness draught is safe.

[morio]

Guinness is usually 25/75 (CO2/N2).

[cascom]

Not mentioned here but relative cost of transport is an issue for CO2 - It’s pretty cheap on a nominal basis ($/CF) so transport becomes an issue. Which means it’s a local market, also since it’s a small market - transportation infrastructure hasn’t been built for it.

Point being there is no shortage of CO2 - just a shortage in certain places of demand (at non-exhorbinant pricing).

[phyzome]

I hadn't quite caught that the manufacture of fertilizer is so carbon-heavy -- it's not just the energy sunk into cracking apart N2, but the H is also coming from fossil fuels. -.-

[softwarefounder]

The amount of foam in that beer makes me uncomfortable.

[lainga]

Don't go to the Yebisu brewery in Tokyo then - they pour a demonstration glass for you and let you watch as the head extrudes itself several inches past the top of the glass, like Arsenio Hall's haircut.

[N0RMAN]

Welcome to Schweizerhaus (https://www.schweizerhaus.at)

[electricslpnsld]

Why don't more people put their beers on nitro? A few local breweries have nitro IPAs which are freaking delicious.

[skittlebrau]

Beers on "nitro" are still carbonated with CO2. The nitro is used to achieve a higher serving pressure used to force it through a diffusing nozzle on the tap. N2 doesn't actually dissolve in liquid very easily compared to CO2. If you put the CO2 at higher pressure, it makes the beer more carbonated over time.

[cup-of-tea]

It might be nice but it's a completely different product and not desirable for many styles.

[wcoenen]

CO2 increases acidity, changing the taste. Nitrogen doesn't do this.

See "chemistry" section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonated_water

[toomanybeersies]

On the note of nitro craft beers, more often than not I find that nitro tap beers are a gimmick and that the beer would be better served be being conventionally carbonated.

It's the same story with cask ales. Some styles really don't work well on a handpull.

[cup-of-tea]

> It’s used to stun animals before slaughter

What? How? Carbon dioxide is well known to cause a painful death. Why the fuck are they not using nitrogen?

[barbegal]

Because it's significantly easier to engineer a system using carbon dioxide than one using nitrogen. This is because carbon dioxide is heavier than air such that the system doesn't need to be enclosed. With nitrogen you need sealed chambers which are more expensive and the process will take longer.

[aarongough]

I think this is poorly written in the article... Likely the Co2 gas is used to power bolt-guns which are in turn used to stun larger animals like cows before slaughter.

[outworlder]

I didn't know about this. This is outrageous. I don't care that animals are being raised for slaughter – our ancestors would chase and spear animals and that was likely to be very stressful and painful. We can do better today. To actually make animals feel that they are suffocating is beyond inhumane. Even carbon monoxide would be better.

We (humans and other animals) are specifically engineered to detect CO2 and trigger the suffocation response, and no other gas. Then the idiots will use exactly the only gas that causes suffering.

Is it possible to figure out which companies are doing this?

[delecti]

Because it's cheaper. The slaughter industry really doesn't prioritize animal comfort.

[roryisok]

When I started reading this article I thought it was a work of fiction, imagining a world in which there's a CO2 shortage rather than the famous over abundance which we're currently all aware of. It's odd and sad that there is a demand for the manufacture of carbon dioxide in a world absolutely choking on the excess of it.

[scythe]

It's like saying that you have access to several tons of gold because you live on the beach. Sure, there's plenty of gold in the ocean. But you can't do anything with it.

[dang]

Please don't do this here.

[rorski]

I sincerely hope you get the help you need.

[mockingbirdy]

> Bioethanol and chemical factories, for example, also produce carbon dioxide as a by-product.

You know what that means. Indirectly we drink that tasty cow fart. I hope they clean the filters.

[gowld]

Do you know what milk and meat are made of?