Counter-argument: they are already winning, and will continue to win until the day they die. I think the obscenely rich can cope with a small ding to the ego every now and then.
My thoughts as well. Celebrity businessmen like Musk can't really win because no matter what they do there are people who dislike them, rightly or wrongly, because of other things they have done.
Personally I don't think Elon was doing this as a PR stunt. I believe he saw it was a very difficult problem with life and death time constraints and he has a bunch of the world's best engineers that build things for extreme environments.
It's also possible to just use a dangerous and potentially tragic situation for PR, as a distraction from your business issues and increasing criticism for unhinged behaviour on twitter.
They can, they just need to no interact outside their bubble, make sure they pay their taxes in a fair way (because, you know, the Panama is 100% legal), and do not show up when their not asked to.
Musk is great at building cool toys, but I'm not sure he's great at making humanity better. (hint: we don't need more battery, we don't need to go to Mars, we don't need more cars on the roads, and some people sure don't need a submarine). Now if Elon wants to go in the cave and bring oxygen bottle to those who need it, or explain the kids to never give up, well, that'd be nice.
On one hand it's nice to see the valley: 'let's solve this' attitude. On the other hand, it's common to see them blinded by hubris, resulting in problem solving approaches divorced from reality.
Weird to see comments like this. Elon Musk was asked to help, he agreed to come there and now people talk about "hubris" as if he had tried to force his help on them?
Can't famous people even help kids stuck in a cave without someone criticizing them for it?
He did nothing to be embarrassed about. He tried hard to quickly help out, using his own resources, asking nothing in return. They started getting kids out suddenly (after they already started on the sub), to take advantage of the lower water levels.
I see nothing here that would embarrass him. He tried to do a kind thing. His speed about it wasn't anything he had control over. To be honest though, they built that thing fast as hell.
Some comments I have read throughout the internet, tweets, etc, suggest that he was too slow to react and that they had over half the kids out already etc.
Reminder that he started this when they were expecting them to be stuck there possibly MONTHS. The rescue in action now was executed quite quickly and surprisingly (to me), as they had said it could be a long term ordeal. The sub too, was designed it to fit in the narrowest parts of the tunnel as well.
I think it's admirable he quickly got this put together and tested, and flew it over to them as fast as he could.
Likewise, he was respectful and didn't take too much of their time or resources when visiting.
I think he tried to do the right thing. He gave them an option that they didn't have previously. If it's not used, so be it. If they had no other options, then they would have another.
It might have been useful. A week ago they were talking about the boys being trapped for months. He'll get stick of course, but people suggested he might be able to help and that's why he got involved.
update: A tweet from Elon Musk (in response to a BBC article similar to the OP) showing his correspondance with one of the dive team about the subs development. As of a few days ago they were urging Musk to continue with the project because they though it might be needed.
Jiradette Kerdsri: I agree with @elonmusk , actually my team was asked from Thai authorities to design a capsule similar to his prototype. But our design is still on the paper while he already has a finish field prototype. Really admire your inspirationhttps://twitter.com/Jiradett/status/1016690284619599873
I just couldn't understand why he thinks the container should be made of hard metal. Sure maybe the current equipment like dry suit + full face mask has limitations. But shouldn't the natural path be building on top of that? Why is a hard long object that can't bend to fit through some narrow gaps, don't have power and don't use the power of the human it contains, and much heavier, be their go to solution?
Remember he didn't have the luxury of time here. He'd have surely designed something better if he had the chance to design, manufacture, and test it from the ground-up, but I doubt there was enough time to do such a thing. He probably tried to do the best with whatever he had at the time, on the off chance it'd still be useful. So he took the pre-designed parts of his Falcon rocket that could be useful and tried to use those.
Musk is a "technology can save problems"-guy and his team got something done in a short amount of time.
With all his involvements in the past years he likes to tackle complicated technical problems (SpaceX) or use modern technology to disrupt a segment (Tesla/Powergrid/Hyperloop).
Literal money quote: "Anuphong said the two spoke about helping the remaining people out of the cave. He said Prayuth encouraged Musk to invest in the country’s Eastern Economic Corridor. Musk then said he would return to Thailand in the future."
What procedure do they actually use? I'd guess SEALs allready have standard procedures for transpoting persons under water in difficult circumstances. Secret procedures probably, so we might never know exactly how they do it.
Although I see the hubris point of view people here have, if oxygen dipped or some other catastrophy and someone fell unconscious, they could have been in a situation where this contraption was Useful.
People like to jump to black and white but maybe it’s shades of grey, some hubris and also a chance of being genuinely helpful.
local Australian media is saying that the report that the kids cant swim was wildly inaccurate, they even showed photos of the kids swimming with their friends.
The "sub" was never really needed... but good on him anyway.
I’m torn on whether this was a publicity stunt or not. If it was, it’s an amazingly transparent one. That almost makes me think it was sincere, but absurd. I don’t see how Musk et al score points either way.
Just at the basic level of what the experience for these boys would have been like, sealed in a metal cylinder and towed through the cave system for hours - it seems a greater feat of endurance for them than being lead out - particularly with how traumatised by darkness and claustrophobia they must already be.
The boys were extremely weak and unhealthy. The trek was demanding and risky for experienced, healthy and prepared divers; there was a lot of doubt as to whether the boys would be able to make such an arduous journey.
This is the best outcome for Musk, as he gets the positive PR (and bolsters his supposed "Iron Man" image), but bears none of the risk of his half-baked idea failing and killing someone.
More generally, one should be wary of capitalists claiming they can solve all of your problems. They're likely just in it for themselves.
From the pictures I don't see how the "submarine" could have worked, when they say the cave is so narrow in places that you need to take off the scuba to get through. Also probably not cylindrical.
[+] [-] robryan|7 years ago|reply
If he was getting in the way or come uninvited would be one thing, but other than that nothing wrong with an extra option.
Rich and well known people can’t win really. They get criticised for helping and also criticised for not bailing out bad government policy.
[+] [-] untog|7 years ago|reply
Counter-argument: they are already winning, and will continue to win until the day they die. I think the obscenely rich can cope with a small ding to the ego every now and then.
[+] [-] satysin|7 years ago|reply
Personally I don't think Elon was doing this as a PR stunt. I believe he saw it was a very difficult problem with life and death time constraints and he has a bunch of the world's best engineers that build things for extreme environments.
[+] [-] s2g|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wiz21c|7 years ago|reply
They can, they just need to no interact outside their bubble, make sure they pay their taxes in a fair way (because, you know, the Panama is 100% legal), and do not show up when their not asked to.
Musk is great at building cool toys, but I'm not sure he's great at making humanity better. (hint: we don't need more battery, we don't need to go to Mars, we don't need more cars on the roads, and some people sure don't need a submarine). Now if Elon wants to go in the cave and bring oxygen bottle to those who need it, or explain the kids to never give up, well, that'd be nice.
[+] [-] lingz|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] antris|7 years ago|reply
Can't famous people even help kids stuck in a cave without someone criticizing them for it?
[+] [-] lingz|7 years ago|reply
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/10/elon-musk-queri...
[+] [-] kraig911|7 years ago|reply
I guess it's like automated cars maybe? It'd save million's of lives but we're so stuck on validating that it might not come in time.
[+] [-] jamesholden|7 years ago|reply
I see nothing here that would embarrass him. He tried to do a kind thing. His speed about it wasn't anything he had control over. To be honest though, they built that thing fast as hell.
[+] [-] jamesholden|7 years ago|reply
Reminder that he started this when they were expecting them to be stuck there possibly MONTHS. The rescue in action now was executed quite quickly and surprisingly (to me), as they had said it could be a long term ordeal. The sub too, was designed it to fit in the narrowest parts of the tunnel as well.
I think it's admirable he quickly got this put together and tested, and flew it over to them as fast as he could.
Likewise, he was respectful and didn't take too much of their time or resources when visiting.
I think he tried to do the right thing. He gave them an option that they didn't have previously. If it's not used, so be it. If they had no other options, then they would have another.
[+] [-] s2g|7 years ago|reply
No, why would he. He got what he wanted already.
[+] [-] codeulike|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emptyfile|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codeulike|7 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1016684366083190785
Also this is interesting:
Jiradette Kerdsri: I agree with @elonmusk , actually my team was asked from Thai authorities to design a capsule similar to his prototype. But our design is still on the paper while he already has a finish field prototype. Really admire your inspiration https://twitter.com/Jiradett/status/1016690284619599873
[+] [-] nichtich|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mehrdadn|7 years ago|reply
Also see this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17496684
[+] [-] spdy|7 years ago|reply
With all his involvements in the past years he likes to tackle complicated technical problems (SpaceX) or use modern technology to disrupt a segment (Tesla/Powergrid/Hyperloop).
[+] [-] ofrzeta|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonsen|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] satysin|7 years ago|reply
The people who dislike Musk will say he is using this awful event for PR and such.
[+] [-] Lambdanaut|7 years ago|reply
The truth in this case, and most similar cases, is "it's probabaly a little bit of both".
Its a joke to think elon is the pure saint many hope him to be. It's also a joke to think that he's just a rich selfish big-egoed businessman.
[+] [-] aplummer|7 years ago|reply
People like to jump to black and white but maybe it’s shades of grey, some hubris and also a chance of being genuinely helpful.
[+] [-] senectus1|7 years ago|reply
The "sub" was never really needed... but good on him anyway.
[+] [-] jf-|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Angostura|7 years ago|reply
There is touch of hubris, perhaps.
[+] [-] thisisit|7 years ago|reply
> His equipment is technologically complex and advanced, but we cannot bring it into the cave for this mission
[+] [-] NVRM|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baxter001|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DecoPerson|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] crumbshot|7 years ago|reply
More generally, one should be wary of capitalists claiming they can solve all of your problems. They're likely just in it for themselves.
[+] [-] ofrzeta|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Numberwang|7 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3qySXPJ2WE&feature=youtu.be