[wycx]

There is hardly any water and the cities were designed around cars far more than any city outside Los Angeles.

As a past/present resident of both LA and Melbourne, I would modify that to say that Syd/Mel are as dependent on cars as much as Los Angeles, but without the planning commitment to cars that LA has exhibited. Bring up maps of LA and Sydney/Melbourne on the same scale. LA has a grid of freeways with a cell-size of 10-15 km. Not so for Sydney and Melbourne, and their surface streets are much worse. Roads designed as two lanes each way made into 3 narrow lanes each way by turning the shoulder into a new lane. Nowhere to go when someone breaks down. Without a commitment to either a comprehensive transit system, or a decent freeway network, Syd/Mel have half-arsed implementations of both.

In LA I was comfortable cycling along PCH, Santa Monica Blvd, Sepulveda Bvd etc, but I would never consider cycling on their Melbourne equivalents.

[ak217]

> Without a commitment to either a comprehensive transit system, or a decent freeway network, Syd/Mel have half-arsed implementations of both.

Funny you say that - when I visited Sydney I thought the regional rail network was better than anywhere in the US outside the eastern seaboard.

[IForgotUsername]

This is true. Note that Sydney has fairly unique infrastructure. Sydney has extensive heavy rail that runs from a web of regional areas straight into the city via underground tunnels and this then becomes a circular underground subway system with numerous stops in the city itself. The Sydney system is great. I used to commute 90mins each way on Sydney trains but the fact that I didn't have to change trains to get to my inner city subway stop meant I took a seat, got my laptop out and it became no different to being at my desk at work. A few less distractions in fact. I might be gushing a bit because I now live in SF which has made me realise just how good Sydney was.

Melbourne is similar to SF. They love their above ground trams for inner city transport but those trams do nothing to get people into the city in the first place. The love is pure historical admiration and not rooted in reality. Being above ground is a flaw in terms of adding to congestion and different track gauges and thus train changes is a hassle we could all do without.

[MrMorden]

In a sane universe, both of these things would not be true.