I'm appreciative of somebody who also has OCD writing an article like this detailing how the disorder isn't at all like the stereotype of a neat freak. What's funny is, I myself am actually a terribly messy person with books and papers always strewn about (among clothes not quite in the hamper, &c).
What's interesting to me from a personal history viewpoint is that one of my earliest compulsions also centered around door knobs. However, in my case I had to cover the whole surface area of the knob (hah!) with my hand and yank it shut multiple times (the exact number was arbitrary; merely whatever "felt" right) until I was sufficiently satisfied that the damn door was indeed closed. I still do this when leaving my apartment.
Hell, reading this article and writing this comment has "caused" (ie, compelled me to) do some of my own compulsions multiple times already because just thinking about doing them means I need to. Once I get into my head that I "have" to do X, Y, or Z then it's much harder to ignore than if the trigger (or what have you) came up in everyday life. I hope you HNers learned something so me sitting here in my underpants counting powers of 2 and repeatedly moving my head back and forth like a confused pigeon wasn't totally for naught! :)
EDIT: For those more curious about this topic (all dozen of you) I wrote a short piece on my blog attempting to better illustrate the painful bizarrity of OCD through the vehicle of a fictional dialectic: https://salt.mattwie.se/essays/all-mad.html
I have the exact same compulsion with locking my door. If I leave my apartment and I don't do my little ritual then I'll either be worried all day, or some times I'll drive back to my apartment and "properly" close the door.
Thanks for sharing. The complexities of the human brain will never cease to amaze me. There should be a way, in all this neuronal maze, to escape those compulsions, but I bet it's really well hidden.
Would it help if you had a webcam pointed at the door so you could remotely verify it's closed and locked? Or do you need some the actual feeling of the door being closed to end the fixation?
I'm one of the "chronic checker" types. I used to be really bad about checking and rechecking door locks, particularly, but also the fridge and the garage. If I check absentmindedly and without intention, I'll have to do it all over again.
What really helped me get out the door in the morning, and still does, is actually to video myself doing it. When I got a Palm Zire 72, for the first time I could actually leave within a normal interval because I had a continuous, raw, time stamped record of everything I did from checking everything was off and secure to leaving the apartment and driving away. I refused to ditch the Zire until the iPhone 3GS because the 2G and 3G only did stills. To this day I still do it with my Pixel when I'm flying solo.
Which brings me to the other thing that helped: my very patient wife, who reminds me she saw me do it, you did it right, and get your butt in the car, darling.
The damnable thing about OCD is that a little is very valuable in my regular line of work (medicine). Without it I wouldn't be as careful, I don't think. It means it won't let me take shortcuts and it forces me to be thorough, and that's a very good thing in that business.
> The damnable thing about OCD is that a little is very valuable in my regular line of work (medicine). Without it I wouldn't be as careful, I don't think. It means it won't let me take shortcuts and it forces me to be thorough, and that's a very good thing in that business.
That's a really interesting take on the positive aspects of OCD and one that's not often discussed. Thanks for sharing. :)
OMG I too am a "chronic checker". When my first son was born and my OCD was aggravated by exhaustion, and living in a relatively unsafe part of baltimore, I would have these 10 "check loops". I just couldn't be 100% certain the door was locked. Even at the time some part of me realized the absurdity of it.
I'm a doctor of four years now and I completely empathise with you. The one thing I have learnt doing the job is not to fully trust anything but to check it yourself. That's how you get outstanding results.
It's unfortunate that it seems to take a toll on your private life. This past year I have developed a habit of double checking the front door even though I remember bolting it.
It's an interesting thing to ponder whether some mental disorders are extreme versions of adaptive behaviours that we all do from time to time.
Same here. I've always had some mild OCD but last year my car got stolen and that's when it really started. Before going to sleep I now have to know where exactly the car keys are, even though I'm both better insured and the lack of keys didn't really stop the thief last time.
What's worse is that while I've also always been a chronic key checker, last month I still managed to lose the keys. On top of that I didn't even lock myself out - either they're somewhere in the apartment(I'm at a loss here because I went as far as going through the trash - to no avail) or the single time my OCD didn't make me check if whether I left them in the lock I did just that and somebody took them.
There is still a _HUGE_ taboo around OCD and mental health in general. A lot of people still think it's all make believe.
In the last couple of months I've starting receiving professional help for a number of themes around OCD that have been traumatising me for most of my life. It's certainly helping, but also very comforting to hear from a professional the kind of issues his/her other clients might be facing.
Don't suffer in silence or try to fix it all by yourself. No matter how bizarre, how dark or how ashamed you are of your OCD you should know you're not alone. A professional therapist has probably heard it, or something very close to it, many many times before.
Mine is earthquakes and tsunamis. I live in Oregon, where we are due for a big one "some day", and I grew up on the Oregon coast, where there historically have been major inundations in some areas.
Every time I drive 101 on the coast, I'm constantly scanning and planning what driveway or what side road I'd go up to get away from a tsunami. "I could turn around and go back to that one road - oh wait here's a new one. OK that one."
If I'm driving across the Willamette Valley and I'm on the other side of the Willamette River from my home, I'm thinking, "OK if I make it across this bridge and then there's an earthquake, I can make it home. But if not then it might collapse and I'll have to figure out how to get across."
Ironically, I actually didn't develop this until I spent about 5 years working for seismologists, so I suppose it's kind of a rational, scientifically driven irrational behavior.
Do you commute a long way? Is it possible that it's just your mind keeping busy/creative while you commute? I find my mind playing out similar doomsday scenarios and solutions when I'm doing something repetitive for longer periods of time.
I was like ten years old when I had to even out things if I stepped on a crack in the pavement. If I brushed by something on one side I had to even it out. If I bumped into something, I'd have to go back and bump the other side evenly.
One day I saw a TV show or a movie where someone was like that and people treated them like they were retarded. So I tried really hard to stop it. Over the next few years, I just got rid of the compulsion. I guess it was weak enough.
Just lucky, I suppose. I still have one terrible one but it doesn't let me talk about it or bad things will happen.
I used to have little compulsions like this as a kid, and I know some others who did. Perhaps it's not uncommon? Probably rather different to full-blown adult OCD though
I still totally have the 'evening out' thing, in my late 30s. But it comes and goes -- I could mostly rid myself of it, I'm sure, if I set my mind to it, like you did. I guess I'm very lucky in that way. I have had times where it was more prominent (perhaps in times of higher stress or anxiety) but for the past decade or two its' just been a minor background thing with no real consequence.
I can imagine how debilitating it must be for those who truly suffer.
I have had a close family member experience and recover from severe OCD. This was at UCLA's child and adolescent OCD program (which was amazing). Let me share what worked:
1) The program first prescribed SSRIs in order to reduce the child's anxiety enough to do the difficult work required.
2) Intense ERP (exposure response prevention) solo and in a group setting. The social aspect of being with fellow sufferers was critical.
3) Coming up with rewards for successful ERP sessions (not food related due to potential overeating)
4) Starting treatment as soon as possible. OCD has a tendency to get worse and harder to treat over time. I clearly saw the difference in treatment efficacy based on how long it took for the child to start treatment.
I've been dealing with OCD for about 2 decades now (I was around the same age as the author when I got these compulsions).
A lot of it centers around health and death, it goes hand in hand with hypochondria and thanatophobia (fear of dying). It's related to my stress for sure, and I often get panic attacks because I can't let go of the thoughts of having become ill or dying.
It does affect my daily life, I have 'repetitive thoughts' almost the whole day. Not per se bad thoughts, sometimes just worrying about my eyes hurting from wearing lenses - I keep thinking that until it starts hurting.
I have some kind of 'pattern' when it comes to thinking and if I move outside of it, I start repeating myself. One of these is that, as a bilingual person, when I mix up languages in my thoughts that is 'wrong' somehow and I need to start the 'train of thought' again.
Sometimes - the moments I am most stressed - I end up in a cycle of causing more OCD moments by having stress, which causes OCD, ..
At times it just depresses me that my thoughts aren't "normal", I know it's not rational to keep repeating things to oneself, but if I don't do it I have a nagging feeling that just pushes me to do it.
I also think that OCD is not something only the person who has it suffers from, it surely does take a toll on the people around you at times - especially when it makes you seem stressed out all the time and like you're on "edge". At least from my experience.
My triggers tend to flare up most at night before I go to bed, or in the morning when I leave for work. Did I checked the hob is off, is the fridge closed, did I lock the door? Did I close the windows? What if I left the iron on and it falls over and starts a fire the house burns down with me inside it?
It's amazing how the mind can "catastrophize" mundane situations.
I live alone which probably makes it worse, but it doesn't affect me too badly during the day.
>"Did I checked the hob is off, is the fridge closed, did I lock the door? Did I close the windows?"
This is exactly me. I have to be consciously paying full attention when I lock my door, otherwise I'll get uncertain about it once I'm a few seconds out the door, and I'll have to go back and check.
I have never managed to actually leave my door unlocked by accident, but I have locked myself out of my apartment on three separate occasions, so I'm actually 3:0 on that, but I still have that uncertainty.
Is that necessarily OCD? I do that sometimes, but I think it's just regular worries coupled with a poor memory (and inattentiveness), that leaves me often unsure if I really did something like lock the car door.
Couldn't get rid of all the compulsions for quite a long time (a few years really), but after starting meditating every day I was able to nearly totally get rid of them.
I'm basically finally able to just let go of the thoughts that once seemed overwhelming.
EDIT: To quote the article "because deep down, the sufferer knows the thoughts and compulsions are irrational. However, despite this knowledge, there always remains a terrible “what if”.".
That's basically it, I'm able to finally rationally decide that letting go won't have bad effects, so I'm able to let it go.
Trigger warning for health anxiety folks. Nothing to see here.
I will never forget one day I opened Hacker News, and the top story was about a 30-year-old programmer named Jonathan (also my name, and I'm 29) who found out about his terminal cancer spreading throughout his body. This was one of many trigger moments in my life.
I struggle against health anxiety. Specifically, I am obsessed with dying young from cancer.
I am not diagnosed with OCD, but health anxiety presents very similar behaviors.
When I feel particularly vulnerable to a specific kind of cancer, I tend to research and wrap my head around probabilities, prevention, and everything I can to hedge myself against that cancer. I'm constantly checking in with small pains in my body.
I have chronic back issues (partially because of my posture while working). Pain exacerbates the anxiety.
For the first two months of this year, I couldn't hold my infant son without ending up on the edge of tears, because I was emotionally convinced I would die before I ever had the chance to see him grow up.
One understated effect of OCD and anxiety is the feeling of guilt you can foster because of your own behavior.
My wife's father recently went through a battle with pancreatic cancer. It was a complete rollercoaster. He ended up having the unlikely type, in a good way - he is now cancer free. But one moment stands out to me: when she came to tell me about what they had found. She started out by telling me, "I don't want to trigger your anxiety..." This both broke my heart and made me feel understood.
This is something that really has more influence on life than you expect. I feel for those of you who struggle with OCD, anxiety, and any other mental health issues. I don't have an answer, other than you are not alone. You're not isolated. You aren't the first to experience this, and you can live your life WITH the struggle, even if it feels impossible.
Seek help. Surround yourself with people who love you and want to understand and help. Don't seek reassurance; seek acceptance.
Hi. I have suffered from thinking about the future as something dangerous (a question of life or death) that is determined from each decision I make.
It has helped me a lot:
1) The faith: what is going to happen, what should happen. And that to receive it as learning.
A spiritual conception has let me not be so attached to life. Knowing that if death comes it has a meaning. And that there is a transcendence.
2) Do not manipulate with the intention of achieving my benefit. Giving meaning to the life of the common good.
3) Communicate: Talk about what happens to my family and friends. Do not keep it for me, expose me.
4) Put myself in the role that I should occupy: At work, as an employee. In my family, as a brother, as a son. With the doctor, as a patient ...
This order helped me to a better social development and a greater simplicity in my mind.
At the beginning, it cost me a lot to respect the treatment. I thought that I would not be able to develop professionally (I'm a systems engineer), and that I would lose intelligence. But with family help, with patience and learning to be more flexible, medication has been reduced to a minimum.
It's a process that has taken me years (and I'm still in process).
I appreciate everything that happened to me, because it has brought me many learnings.
It's interesting how contamination OCD seems to be one of the most relatable forms of OCD to those who aren't sufferers. I'm glad articles like this are being written (there are a few other good ones out there), but it's unfortunate that this subset of the disorder is the only one that gets attention.
There are hundreds of variations of OCD -- basically, a variation for each thing you might have a fear over -- as fear and anxiety are at the root of the behavior associated with OCD. If you can fear it, you can probably create an obsession over it.
Much like the author, I also suffered a "nervous breakdown" in my 20s (and I'm still in my 20s, so this wasn't that long ago...) and tried to get myself hospitalized for the sake of my immediate family, as taking care of somebody in that state is emotionally exhausting. Fortunately, I had terrible insurance at the time that didn't allow for "non-critical" inpatient hospitalization, so I ended up going back home. This ended up being the right decision, because as mentioned in the article, exposure therapy is the best way to treat OCD. Avoidance behaviors actually _reinforce_ the damn thing, only making you worse.
I've thought about writing in more depth about my particular form of OCD, which is a difficult one to treat as my compulsions are entirely mental (compulsions are just reassurance seeking behavior, and you'd be surprised at the mental gymnastics one can try to jump through to reassure themselves about a situation). I consider myself very fortunate for having lived in a city with one of the best OCD clinics in the country, as I went through a few months of clinicians and psychiatrists not really understanding what was happening to me, before ending up at the right place.
Writing about OCD is incredibly exhausting, because as many other people have related in this thread, even reading about OCD tends to be triggering to sufferers. Writing about it is basically saying, "hey, I don't mind exposing myself to old and new anxieties over and over and over, with the potential to make my next few weeks miserable", so the people that do it are admirable. Probably healthier for it, too, given it's basically therapy.
I can't imagine what it's like to write a novel, like John Green did with Turtles All The Way Down, while also being a sufferer. I'm sure medication must help. ;)
The main thing that has helped me has been meditation. I’ve also found labelling of thoughts to be very powerful. If you can realize what’s going on and label it as anxiety, it takes the sting out of it.
the fact that this article got upvoted so much probably also explains why there are always paper towels available and a waste basket near every restroom door in the bay area right?
I literally possess binary memory when it comes to "what is clean" and "what isn't clean (touched the floor, public restroom, etc)" for most of my things. Also used to have "San francisco shoes" and "South bay shoes"
>I literally possess binary memory when it comes to "what is clean" and "what isn't clean (touched the floor, public restroom, etc)" for most of my things.
after working in tissue culture where sterility matters (to put it lightly) i have developed a similar mentality. in the lab, it teaches you to be overly careful with things because a lot of the time you have to throw them out if they get dirty, and often the bar for "being dirty" can be as low as "was exposed to air while uncovered". it causes a lot of very wasteful carryovers into real life.
I had OCD (compulsive hand washing, obsessive food hygiene beyond normal, obsessive about which things touched my lips or hands)
It was tiring. Frustrating. Depressing. It felt like a disease that ruled my life.
A change in circumstances distanced me from unrelated stresses in my life and the OCD disappeared. It seemed that it was a manifestation of unrelated stresses.
This scene played out almost every night, except I learned
to be quiet so no one would know I couldn’t open the door
because of a mysterious feeling that if I didn’t do it
“right” something horrible would happen.
I didn't quite realize it, but how many people suffering from OCD are motivated by "something horrible" happening? Like I wonder how many people have compulsions that aren't motivated by something bad happen?
For most OCD sufferers, it's the "do this or you'll die" thing (at least, from what I've read).
> Like I wonder how many people have compulsions that aren't motivated by something bad happen?
I'm one. I have compulsions, and none of the obsessions involve me being certain of impending death if they aren't carried out just so.
For me, it's an extremely intense feeling of wrongness. Not like morality; just that there exists some "right" way to do certain things, and doing it any other way is somehow inherently wrong or incorrect. Why would I willingly do something the wrong way?
It makes my skin crawl if I do it wrong. Like there's a physical sensation of "You've screwed up; go back and do it again until you do it right." My stomach drops and I feel that one shiver you get when you're just a bit too cold.
Of course, I'm never compelled to do useful things the right way. My go-to example is from a few years ago. I eat cereal a lot, and historically have mostly always eaten Smart Start and Raisin Nut Bran. Maybe four years ago, I branched out and got some Cinnamon Life for the first time since I was a kid. I ate the bowl of cereal and all was well. Then I tried to put the box back on the shelf... and I couldn't. It was wrong. The box was printed wrong, and I didn't know what to do. You know how there's those interleaving flaps on the top? I like to put my boxes on the shelf such that the flap the goes on top is on the left and the nutrition information faces out (that way I can pick it up with my right hand and easily open the box and pour into the bowl — any other way of doing it would be wrong, somehow). But the Life box was printed such that the flaps and the nutrition information were at odds. I had to make a choice: either face out the nutrition information and have the flaps wrong, or put the flaps correctly and have the wrong side of the box face outwards.
I debated the best compromise for some thirty minutes, until my roommate came home and asked why I wasn't in class. I hastily shoved the box on the shelf (flaps correct, nutrition information be damned) and made some excuse about having missed my alarm. I was completely preoccupied with my decision for the rest of the day, and haven't bought Life since because I can't deal with the stomach-sinking feeling of having done something wrong.
One of my obsessions is that objects aren't the "right temperature", even if I intellectually know they should be.
This has led to many a burned hand throughout my youth as I would reach out and touch a hot stove or incandescent light bulb to make sure they were really hot like they should be.
I’m using a throwaway account and trying to keep personal details sparse to keep this as anonymous as possible. Also, despite my frustration with the situation, I’ll attempt to be as neutral as possible.
My significant other was always “germ conscious”; clean hands, no shoes in the house, etc. Nothing over the top or alarming. However, over the years, there have been huge shifts in behavior and routine in regards to keeping clean. This person has made the house the “clean zone”. All attempts are made to avoid contamination from the outside world.
The routines in the house start with the notion that you are dirty if you’ve been outside. “Outside” isn’t inherently dirty, so things like yard work and actual dirt are okay. Basically, if you’ve driven anywhere, you’re dirty. Anything that you or your clothing touches (while dirty) must be cleaned. If it’s the floor, it must be cleaned immediately to avoid tracking germs through the house.
The dirty rules apply to everything. Anything brought into the house from outside is dirty and must be cleaned before use.
Strictly speaking, the basement is dirty. Touching (nearly) anything means that your hands are now dirty. Shoes or slippers must be worn before going downstairs.
Shoes must be removed before coming in the house, but you can’t step where your shoes have been...otherwise your feet are dirty also. Sandal wearers must wear socks in the house.
We have guests over, but all walkways must be cleaned after they’ve left. Any surfaces they touched or sat on are cleaned as well.
Work days must end with a shower and change of clothing after coming home. It doesn’t have to happen immediately, but one can’t sit on furniture and should be careful not to contaminate anything.
The furniture, floors, cabinets, handles and counters see regular cleaning with either lysol wipes, alcohol wipes or lysol spray.
One larger issue stems from the fact that my spouse is a medical professional and is fearful of transmission of things like MRSA. While there is a real concern there, I’m of the opinion that the cleanliness routine is too extreme. This person does not typically do not work in a hospital, but when they do, they have a routine that must be followed.
- The car must be sanitized
- Shoes are removed outside and sanitized
- Clothing is removed in the basement and put into the wash immediately
- Person showers, which unfortunately means a naked stroll across the house from the basement all the way to the bathroom.
- Clothing is washed again
- The washer is now washed
After drying on the line, the clothing is washed again and the line is sanitized
All items on the person (jewelry, purse, bags, phone, pens, etc…) must be sanitized
This behaviour has slowly gotten worse since we started living together. The logic is consistent, but new behaviours are constantly being added. Where I’m really beginning to become concerned is that we recently had a child. I’m hopeful that this will encourage positive change, as some behaviors aren’t sustainable with a antsy child. But, I’m concerned that they will get worse and that the child will pick up on these behaviours.
Early signs of concern with the child: The showering rule applies to everybody. So, somebody has to hold the baby while the other showers. You can’t put the baby anywhere, because that would be dirty now as well. This has already become problematic now that the baby is almost three. Basically, somebody is stuck with a squirmy kid that you can’t put down for upwards of 20 minutes.
ANY attempt at discussing this has been met with extreme hostility, to the point where I’m afraid to mention or question the germaphobia.
I try to be very patient, but I believe that I've enabled too much of this behavior for fear of sacrificing a happy household.
This sounds very much like OCD. One of the nastier traits of OCD that I experienced with a partner was the tendency for the OCD to hide itself, by convincing the sufferer that they were just a terrible person, or that what they were doing was normal. And this was post-diagnosis. My interpretation was that accepting you have OCD is the first step to acknowledging that the repetitive behavior isn't necessary, which of course the disease fights against.
It was very hard at times and there was often hostility but it was always recognizable to me as a symptom of the disease and not an intrinsic quality of the person.
I met another person with OCD who didn't know they had it - 5 hrs of cleaning each day and they didn't know, they just knew things needed to be clean.
I strongly encourage you to do what you can to get to a diagnosis. What helped the person I was close to in the end was cognitive behavioral therapy and a lot of hard work, to get to a point where things were manageable.
Finally - the biggest mistake I made as a carer was not talking to others about it or recognizing and acknowledging the effect on me. Get support for yourself if nothing else.
I'm not a doctor, but I'm almost certain your SO absolutely needs to discuss these things with someone to have any chance of relieving, or reversing the trend you mentioned.
From my past experiences, I must unfortunately say that you might be just about the last person they want to, or can discuss it with (as strange as that sounds), but without them confronting their habits, it is unlikely it is going to get easier. Even with crippling forms of OCD, it is easier to just "comply" than to challenge it, the latter being "guarded" by great anxiety that feels much more intimidating than even the most time-consuming and difficult routines, even if they fully realize some of the irrationality. (That, too, may be hard to understand from another person's view.)
I understand where this comes from, and your resistance to trying to override your spouse. My partner works in a hospital, too. She tries to keep her 'hospital clothes' separate from everything else, which is probably wise. In her old car, basically nothing else could go in the trunk. Groceries, day-to-day supplies, all went in the back seat, because the trunk was the dirty place. Who am I to argue? I don't see the horrible effects of infection day to day, and I don't go through the procedures they have drilled into them.
Thankfully, it's not like your partner's. We share a car now, and there's just one basket in the trunk for the 'dirty' hospital shoes. She tries to change out of work clothes as soon as getting home and throws them in the laundry. Reasonable precaution, that's fine. She's more squeamish than I am about touching raw meat. But those are all preferences, and it's well under control. I don't think it's OCD related at all, it's just precaution.
In your case, it sounds like your SO has crippling OCD that's being fed/reinforced by rationality. Can you have some kind of intervention where other people who are impacted by this behavior are the loudest voices in the room? It's not good for her, it's not good for you, it's not good for your relationship, and it's not good for your child.
this might be medically unadvisable, but i have found that education goes a long way towards disarming the notion that anything can ever really be clean if it is in your house. i helped one of my friends be slightly less obsessed with cleanliness this way.
let's say you bleach down a perfectly smooth countertop in your kitchen. okay, it's clean, there's no bacteria there. for about two seconds. probably less, in reality. we can't see microorganisms with our naked eyes, but they are as much a part of our physical environment as the air.
put differently, you can't make them go away by cleaning compulsively. not even for a moment. not in your home, at least. sure, if you see mold growing on food, throw it out. but you aren't about to out-clean nature's ability to survive.
remember, nature has been playing the game of "gotta inhabit every potential niche, ESPECIALLY if nobody else is there, because then there will be more room for me!" for a few billion years. a lifetime spent applying cleaning products isn't about to make any headway, nor will it prevent disease beyond a certain minimal level.
>Most people still think having OCD means you’re a neat freak or like your shoes precisely lined up in the closet. Come to my apartment; I’ll show you that’s not true. OCD is not a personality or preference. It’s a mental illness that can have devastating effects on how you live and interact with the world.
Well, yes, but it can also manifest in being a "neat freak" (and not just of the mild kind).
i used to be plagued by worries who some might relate to all kinds of stress disorders or obsessive / compulsive disorders. Recently in my life i found actually, that these things are stress, and that (i finally managed for a short while to..) if i resolve this stress in my life, this whole background noise of worries and negative thinking just goes away. like it's not even actually my own thoughts or something...
Not trying to tell how the mind or psychology works, but after a few diagnoses of incurable mental problems, i found that actually these were all wrong, and the problem was just plain stress. it;'s very hard and painful to accept and resolve these things, costs a lot of self-reflection and self-acceptance of the dark side to put it simply, but i'd want to encourage anyone who suffers from these things, to the point of being depressed for years and years on end, that there is hope to grow beyong yourself, to places more calm and beautiful than you can even imagine.
Keep up hope and positivity, and look into yourself for positivity and you will find it.
[+] [-] _xlr2|7 years ago|reply
What's interesting to me from a personal history viewpoint is that one of my earliest compulsions also centered around door knobs. However, in my case I had to cover the whole surface area of the knob (hah!) with my hand and yank it shut multiple times (the exact number was arbitrary; merely whatever "felt" right) until I was sufficiently satisfied that the damn door was indeed closed. I still do this when leaving my apartment.
Hell, reading this article and writing this comment has "caused" (ie, compelled me to) do some of my own compulsions multiple times already because just thinking about doing them means I need to. Once I get into my head that I "have" to do X, Y, or Z then it's much harder to ignore than if the trigger (or what have you) came up in everyday life. I hope you HNers learned something so me sitting here in my underpants counting powers of 2 and repeatedly moving my head back and forth like a confused pigeon wasn't totally for naught! :)
EDIT: For those more curious about this topic (all dozen of you) I wrote a short piece on my blog attempting to better illustrate the painful bizarrity of OCD through the vehicle of a fictional dialectic: https://salt.mattwie.se/essays/all-mad.html
[+] [-] rndmwlk|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bpizzi|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Retric|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coderdude|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] classichasclass|7 years ago|reply
What really helped me get out the door in the morning, and still does, is actually to video myself doing it. When I got a Palm Zire 72, for the first time I could actually leave within a normal interval because I had a continuous, raw, time stamped record of everything I did from checking everything was off and secure to leaving the apartment and driving away. I refused to ditch the Zire until the iPhone 3GS because the 2G and 3G only did stills. To this day I still do it with my Pixel when I'm flying solo.
Which brings me to the other thing that helped: my very patient wife, who reminds me she saw me do it, you did it right, and get your butt in the car, darling.
The damnable thing about OCD is that a little is very valuable in my regular line of work (medicine). Without it I wouldn't be as careful, I don't think. It means it won't let me take shortcuts and it forces me to be thorough, and that's a very good thing in that business.
[+] [-] SmellyGeekBoy|7 years ago|reply
That's a really interesting take on the positive aspects of OCD and one that's not often discussed. Thanks for sharing. :)
[+] [-] dm03514|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sanotehu|7 years ago|reply
It's unfortunate that it seems to take a toll on your private life. This past year I have developed a habit of double checking the front door even though I remember bolting it.
It's an interesting thing to ponder whether some mental disorders are extreme versions of adaptive behaviours that we all do from time to time.
[+] [-] Tade0|7 years ago|reply
What's worse is that while I've also always been a chronic key checker, last month I still managed to lose the keys. On top of that I didn't even lock myself out - either they're somewhere in the apartment(I'm at a loss here because I went as far as going through the trash - to no avail) or the single time my OCD didn't make me check if whether I left them in the lock I did just that and somebody took them.
[+] [-] meguest|7 years ago|reply
There is still a _HUGE_ taboo around OCD and mental health in general. A lot of people still think it's all make believe.
In the last couple of months I've starting receiving professional help for a number of themes around OCD that have been traumatising me for most of my life. It's certainly helping, but also very comforting to hear from a professional the kind of issues his/her other clients might be facing.
Don't suffer in silence or try to fix it all by yourself. No matter how bizarre, how dark or how ashamed you are of your OCD you should know you're not alone. A professional therapist has probably heard it, or something very close to it, many many times before.
Good luck!
[+] [-] pugworthy|7 years ago|reply
Every time I drive 101 on the coast, I'm constantly scanning and planning what driveway or what side road I'd go up to get away from a tsunami. "I could turn around and go back to that one road - oh wait here's a new one. OK that one."
If I'm driving across the Willamette Valley and I'm on the other side of the Willamette River from my home, I'm thinking, "OK if I make it across this bridge and then there's an earthquake, I can make it home. But if not then it might collapse and I'll have to figure out how to get across."
Ironically, I actually didn't develop this until I spent about 5 years working for seismologists, so I suppose it's kind of a rational, scientifically driven irrational behavior.
[+] [-] glenneroo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] scarejunba|7 years ago|reply
One day I saw a TV show or a movie where someone was like that and people treated them like they were retarded. So I tried really hard to stop it. Over the next few years, I just got rid of the compulsion. I guess it was weak enough.
Just lucky, I suppose. I still have one terrible one but it doesn't let me talk about it or bad things will happen.
[+] [-] circlefavshape|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aeorgnoieang|7 years ago|reply
Fuck; you're being held hostage by a compulsion? That's tragic.
[+] [-] rconti|7 years ago|reply
I can imagine how debilitating it must be for those who truly suffer.
[+] [-] gator-io|7 years ago|reply
1) The program first prescribed SSRIs in order to reduce the child's anxiety enough to do the difficult work required.
2) Intense ERP (exposure response prevention) solo and in a group setting. The social aspect of being with fellow sufferers was critical.
3) Coming up with rewards for successful ERP sessions (not food related due to potential overeating)
4) Starting treatment as soon as possible. OCD has a tendency to get worse and harder to treat over time. I clearly saw the difference in treatment efficacy based on how long it took for the child to start treatment.
The link to the program is https://iocdf.org/clinics/ucla-child-adolescent-ocd-intensiv...
[+] [-] Insanity|7 years ago|reply
A lot of it centers around health and death, it goes hand in hand with hypochondria and thanatophobia (fear of dying). It's related to my stress for sure, and I often get panic attacks because I can't let go of the thoughts of having become ill or dying.
It does affect my daily life, I have 'repetitive thoughts' almost the whole day. Not per se bad thoughts, sometimes just worrying about my eyes hurting from wearing lenses - I keep thinking that until it starts hurting.
I have some kind of 'pattern' when it comes to thinking and if I move outside of it, I start repeating myself. One of these is that, as a bilingual person, when I mix up languages in my thoughts that is 'wrong' somehow and I need to start the 'train of thought' again.
Sometimes - the moments I am most stressed - I end up in a cycle of causing more OCD moments by having stress, which causes OCD, ..
At times it just depresses me that my thoughts aren't "normal", I know it's not rational to keep repeating things to oneself, but if I don't do it I have a nagging feeling that just pushes me to do it.
I also think that OCD is not something only the person who has it suffers from, it surely does take a toll on the people around you at times - especially when it makes you seem stressed out all the time and like you're on "edge". At least from my experience.
[+] [-] djhworld|7 years ago|reply
My triggers tend to flare up most at night before I go to bed, or in the morning when I leave for work. Did I checked the hob is off, is the fridge closed, did I lock the door? Did I close the windows? What if I left the iron on and it falls over and starts a fire the house burns down with me inside it?
It's amazing how the mind can "catastrophize" mundane situations.
I live alone which probably makes it worse, but it doesn't affect me too badly during the day.
[+] [-] KozmoNau7|7 years ago|reply
This is exactly me. I have to be consciously paying full attention when I lock my door, otherwise I'll get uncertain about it once I'm a few seconds out the door, and I'll have to go back and check.
I have never managed to actually leave my door unlocked by accident, but I have locked myself out of my apartment on three separate occasions, so I'm actually 3:0 on that, but I still have that uncertainty.
[+] [-] icebraining|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stephengillie|7 years ago|reply
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hob
Definition of hob
1 dialectal, England : hobgoblin, elf
2 : mischief, trouble —used with play and raise always raising hob
But your context describes some sort of appliance.
[+] [-] cube2222|7 years ago|reply
I'm basically finally able to just let go of the thoughts that once seemed overwhelming.
EDIT: To quote the article "because deep down, the sufferer knows the thoughts and compulsions are irrational. However, despite this knowledge, there always remains a terrible “what if”.".
That's basically it, I'm able to finally rationally decide that letting go won't have bad effects, so I'm able to let it go.
[+] [-] jcutrell|7 years ago|reply
I will never forget one day I opened Hacker News, and the top story was about a 30-year-old programmer named Jonathan (also my name, and I'm 29) who found out about his terminal cancer spreading throughout his body. This was one of many trigger moments in my life.
I struggle against health anxiety. Specifically, I am obsessed with dying young from cancer.
I am not diagnosed with OCD, but health anxiety presents very similar behaviors.
When I feel particularly vulnerable to a specific kind of cancer, I tend to research and wrap my head around probabilities, prevention, and everything I can to hedge myself against that cancer. I'm constantly checking in with small pains in my body.
I have chronic back issues (partially because of my posture while working). Pain exacerbates the anxiety.
For the first two months of this year, I couldn't hold my infant son without ending up on the edge of tears, because I was emotionally convinced I would die before I ever had the chance to see him grow up.
One understated effect of OCD and anxiety is the feeling of guilt you can foster because of your own behavior.
My wife's father recently went through a battle with pancreatic cancer. It was a complete rollercoaster. He ended up having the unlikely type, in a good way - he is now cancer free. But one moment stands out to me: when she came to tell me about what they had found. She started out by telling me, "I don't want to trigger your anxiety..." This both broke my heart and made me feel understood.
This is something that really has more influence on life than you expect. I feel for those of you who struggle with OCD, anxiety, and any other mental health issues. I don't have an answer, other than you are not alone. You're not isolated. You aren't the first to experience this, and you can live your life WITH the struggle, even if it feels impossible.
Seek help. Surround yourself with people who love you and want to understand and help. Don't seek reassurance; seek acceptance.
[+] [-] anibalfernando|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skytrue|7 years ago|reply
There are hundreds of variations of OCD -- basically, a variation for each thing you might have a fear over -- as fear and anxiety are at the root of the behavior associated with OCD. If you can fear it, you can probably create an obsession over it.
Much like the author, I also suffered a "nervous breakdown" in my 20s (and I'm still in my 20s, so this wasn't that long ago...) and tried to get myself hospitalized for the sake of my immediate family, as taking care of somebody in that state is emotionally exhausting. Fortunately, I had terrible insurance at the time that didn't allow for "non-critical" inpatient hospitalization, so I ended up going back home. This ended up being the right decision, because as mentioned in the article, exposure therapy is the best way to treat OCD. Avoidance behaviors actually _reinforce_ the damn thing, only making you worse.
I've thought about writing in more depth about my particular form of OCD, which is a difficult one to treat as my compulsions are entirely mental (compulsions are just reassurance seeking behavior, and you'd be surprised at the mental gymnastics one can try to jump through to reassure themselves about a situation). I consider myself very fortunate for having lived in a city with one of the best OCD clinics in the country, as I went through a few months of clinicians and psychiatrists not really understanding what was happening to me, before ending up at the right place.
Writing about OCD is incredibly exhausting, because as many other people have related in this thread, even reading about OCD tends to be triggering to sufferers. Writing about it is basically saying, "hey, I don't mind exposing myself to old and new anxieties over and over and over, with the potential to make my next few weeks miserable", so the people that do it are admirable. Probably healthier for it, too, given it's basically therapy.
I can't imagine what it's like to write a novel, like John Green did with Turtles All The Way Down, while also being a sufferer. I'm sure medication must help. ;)
[+] [-] Finbarr|7 years ago|reply
The main thing that has helped me has been meditation. I’ve also found labelling of thoughts to be very powerful. If you can realize what’s going on and label it as anxiety, it takes the sting out of it.
[+] [-] imlina|7 years ago|reply
I literally possess binary memory when it comes to "what is clean" and "what isn't clean (touched the floor, public restroom, etc)" for most of my things. Also used to have "San francisco shoes" and "South bay shoes"
[+] [-] cryoshon|7 years ago|reply
after working in tissue culture where sterility matters (to put it lightly) i have developed a similar mentality. in the lab, it teaches you to be overly careful with things because a lot of the time you have to throw them out if they get dirty, and often the bar for "being dirty" can be as low as "was exposed to air while uncovered". it causes a lot of very wasteful carryovers into real life.
[+] [-] bitblit87|7 years ago|reply
It was tiring. Frustrating. Depressing. It felt like a disease that ruled my life.
A change in circumstances distanced me from unrelated stresses in my life and the OCD disappeared. It seemed that it was a manifestation of unrelated stresses.
[+] [-] dm03514|7 years ago|reply
I didn't quite realize it, but how many people suffering from OCD are motivated by "something horrible" happening? Like I wonder how many people have compulsions that aren't motivated by something bad happen?
[+] [-] DonaldPShimoda|7 years ago|reply
> Like I wonder how many people have compulsions that aren't motivated by something bad happen?
I'm one. I have compulsions, and none of the obsessions involve me being certain of impending death if they aren't carried out just so.
For me, it's an extremely intense feeling of wrongness. Not like morality; just that there exists some "right" way to do certain things, and doing it any other way is somehow inherently wrong or incorrect. Why would I willingly do something the wrong way?
It makes my skin crawl if I do it wrong. Like there's a physical sensation of "You've screwed up; go back and do it again until you do it right." My stomach drops and I feel that one shiver you get when you're just a bit too cold.
Of course, I'm never compelled to do useful things the right way. My go-to example is from a few years ago. I eat cereal a lot, and historically have mostly always eaten Smart Start and Raisin Nut Bran. Maybe four years ago, I branched out and got some Cinnamon Life for the first time since I was a kid. I ate the bowl of cereal and all was well. Then I tried to put the box back on the shelf... and I couldn't. It was wrong. The box was printed wrong, and I didn't know what to do. You know how there's those interleaving flaps on the top? I like to put my boxes on the shelf such that the flap the goes on top is on the left and the nutrition information faces out (that way I can pick it up with my right hand and easily open the box and pour into the bowl — any other way of doing it would be wrong, somehow). But the Life box was printed such that the flaps and the nutrition information were at odds. I had to make a choice: either face out the nutrition information and have the flaps wrong, or put the flaps correctly and have the wrong side of the box face outwards.
I debated the best compromise for some thirty minutes, until my roommate came home and asked why I wasn't in class. I hastily shoved the box on the shelf (flaps correct, nutrition information be damned) and made some excuse about having missed my alarm. I was completely preoccupied with my decision for the rest of the day, and haven't bought Life since because I can't deal with the stomach-sinking feeling of having done something wrong.
[+] [-] nkzednan|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] somebodythere|7 years ago|reply
This has led to many a burned hand throughout my youth as I would reach out and touch a hot stove or incandescent light bulb to make sure they were really hot like they should be.
[+] [-] SpouseThrowaway|7 years ago|reply
My significant other was always “germ conscious”; clean hands, no shoes in the house, etc. Nothing over the top or alarming. However, over the years, there have been huge shifts in behavior and routine in regards to keeping clean. This person has made the house the “clean zone”. All attempts are made to avoid contamination from the outside world.
The routines in the house start with the notion that you are dirty if you’ve been outside. “Outside” isn’t inherently dirty, so things like yard work and actual dirt are okay. Basically, if you’ve driven anywhere, you’re dirty. Anything that you or your clothing touches (while dirty) must be cleaned. If it’s the floor, it must be cleaned immediately to avoid tracking germs through the house.
The dirty rules apply to everything. Anything brought into the house from outside is dirty and must be cleaned before use.
Strictly speaking, the basement is dirty. Touching (nearly) anything means that your hands are now dirty. Shoes or slippers must be worn before going downstairs.
Shoes must be removed before coming in the house, but you can’t step where your shoes have been...otherwise your feet are dirty also. Sandal wearers must wear socks in the house.
We have guests over, but all walkways must be cleaned after they’ve left. Any surfaces they touched or sat on are cleaned as well.
Work days must end with a shower and change of clothing after coming home. It doesn’t have to happen immediately, but one can’t sit on furniture and should be careful not to contaminate anything.
The furniture, floors, cabinets, handles and counters see regular cleaning with either lysol wipes, alcohol wipes or lysol spray.
One larger issue stems from the fact that my spouse is a medical professional and is fearful of transmission of things like MRSA. While there is a real concern there, I’m of the opinion that the cleanliness routine is too extreme. This person does not typically do not work in a hospital, but when they do, they have a routine that must be followed.
- The car must be sanitized
- Shoes are removed outside and sanitized
- Clothing is removed in the basement and put into the wash immediately
- Person showers, which unfortunately means a naked stroll across the house from the basement all the way to the bathroom.
- Clothing is washed again
- The washer is now washed
After drying on the line, the clothing is washed again and the line is sanitized
All items on the person (jewelry, purse, bags, phone, pens, etc…) must be sanitized
This behaviour has slowly gotten worse since we started living together. The logic is consistent, but new behaviours are constantly being added. Where I’m really beginning to become concerned is that we recently had a child. I’m hopeful that this will encourage positive change, as some behaviors aren’t sustainable with a antsy child. But, I’m concerned that they will get worse and that the child will pick up on these behaviours.
Early signs of concern with the child: The showering rule applies to everybody. So, somebody has to hold the baby while the other showers. You can’t put the baby anywhere, because that would be dirty now as well. This has already become problematic now that the baby is almost three. Basically, somebody is stuck with a squirmy kid that you can’t put down for upwards of 20 minutes.
ANY attempt at discussing this has been met with extreme hostility, to the point where I’m afraid to mention or question the germaphobia.
I try to be very patient, but I believe that I've enabled too much of this behavior for fear of sacrificing a happy household.
[+] [-] teahat|7 years ago|reply
It was very hard at times and there was often hostility but it was always recognizable to me as a symptom of the disease and not an intrinsic quality of the person.
I met another person with OCD who didn't know they had it - 5 hrs of cleaning each day and they didn't know, they just knew things needed to be clean.
I strongly encourage you to do what you can to get to a diagnosis. What helped the person I was close to in the end was cognitive behavioral therapy and a lot of hard work, to get to a point where things were manageable.
Finally - the biggest mistake I made as a carer was not talking to others about it or recognizing and acknowledging the effect on me. Get support for yourself if nothing else.
[+] [-] 8xde0wcNwpslOw|7 years ago|reply
From my past experiences, I must unfortunately say that you might be just about the last person they want to, or can discuss it with (as strange as that sounds), but without them confronting their habits, it is unlikely it is going to get easier. Even with crippling forms of OCD, it is easier to just "comply" than to challenge it, the latter being "guarded" by great anxiety that feels much more intimidating than even the most time-consuming and difficult routines, even if they fully realize some of the irrationality. (That, too, may be hard to understand from another person's view.)
[+] [-] rconti|7 years ago|reply
Thankfully, it's not like your partner's. We share a car now, and there's just one basket in the trunk for the 'dirty' hospital shoes. She tries to change out of work clothes as soon as getting home and throws them in the laundry. Reasonable precaution, that's fine. She's more squeamish than I am about touching raw meat. But those are all preferences, and it's well under control. I don't think it's OCD related at all, it's just precaution.
In your case, it sounds like your SO has crippling OCD that's being fed/reinforced by rationality. Can you have some kind of intervention where other people who are impacted by this behavior are the loudest voices in the room? It's not good for her, it's not good for you, it's not good for your relationship, and it's not good for your child.
[+] [-] cryoshon|7 years ago|reply
let's say you bleach down a perfectly smooth countertop in your kitchen. okay, it's clean, there's no bacteria there. for about two seconds. probably less, in reality. we can't see microorganisms with our naked eyes, but they are as much a part of our physical environment as the air.
put differently, you can't make them go away by cleaning compulsively. not even for a moment. not in your home, at least. sure, if you see mold growing on food, throw it out. but you aren't about to out-clean nature's ability to survive.
remember, nature has been playing the game of "gotta inhabit every potential niche, ESPECIALLY if nobody else is there, because then there will be more room for me!" for a few billion years. a lifetime spent applying cleaning products isn't about to make any headway, nor will it prevent disease beyond a certain minimal level.
[+] [-] classichasclass|7 years ago|reply
When you mention the hostility, what kind of things were said? How does your spouse justify their behaviour?
It sounds like there are attributes both of OCD and OCPD, and that makes for a very tough combination.
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] coldtea|7 years ago|reply
Well, yes, but it can also manifest in being a "neat freak" (and not just of the mild kind).
[+] [-] vectorEQ|7 years ago|reply
Not trying to tell how the mind or psychology works, but after a few diagnoses of incurable mental problems, i found that actually these were all wrong, and the problem was just plain stress. it;'s very hard and painful to accept and resolve these things, costs a lot of self-reflection and self-acceptance of the dark side to put it simply, but i'd want to encourage anyone who suffers from these things, to the point of being depressed for years and years on end, that there is hope to grow beyong yourself, to places more calm and beautiful than you can even imagine.
Keep up hope and positivity, and look into yourself for positivity and you will find it.
~peace