I propose that we petition Congress to repeal this law:
"Tipping again changed in the 1960s, when Congress agreed that workers could receive a lower minimum wage if a portion of their salary came from tips. The minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13, which has not changed in over 20 years, as long as those workers receive at least $7.25 in tips per hour. Saru Jayaraman, author of Behind the Kitchen Door, explains that a minimum wage of $2.13 means that their full wage will go toward taxes and forces tipped workers to live off their tips." [1]
I'm not sure that has much to do with it. People don't become servers to make minimum wage.
Imagine if you receive an offer with $160k salary per year, $100k expected public RSUs per year, and $100k expected bonus per year. You'll be upset if you only make $160k salary even though that's above minimum wage.
I am frustrated with articles like this that keep pushing a higher and higher "acceptable" tip percentage.
20% is not normal. 20% is very high for very good service.
15 years ago, 15% was normal. Now the minimum on these pos pos's is 18.
I tip 15% and no more unless service was well above normal.
And I have no qualms about hitting 0 for anything that isn't sit down service, including Uber and Lyft.
We have to fight this tip creep or we will live in a world where every service employee is paid with 100% tips by those that feel guilty enough to pay it while all the cheapskates freeload.
Last time I went to a restaurant in the US, I got scolded because I refused to tip when the waitress brought my food out cold and never once gave me a refill. I'm apparently "supposed" to tip 25% these days.
When people do their job, I'm okay with tipping. But I'm not OK with tipping based on the price of the meal. A person who works at a $70/plate restaurant and keeps filling my glass of water up with ice before I can finish it, making it unbearably cold, really isn't doing anything better than an overworked waiter in a $7/plate dirty hole in the wall shack. The skills don't differ (and I'm honestly often impressed with how skill-less waiters are at high-end American restaurants--they're worse than typical servers in any other country) and they're not the ones making the meals.
Just bring me a drink that's at least 90% drink and not 90% ice, bring my food out before it's cold, and get me a refill within a few minutes of running out and I have no trouble dropping $10 or $20--the price of the meal doesn't factor into that. Fail to do that, and you're getting nothing--I don't care how expensive the meal is that the chef prepared, but you had zero involvement so you're not entitled to that cash.
But I'm glad I'm not living in a place with a toxic restaurant culture, so it's not my problem anymore. :)
If the 'default' tip on the app is 15% or 20%, then you need to make an affirmative choice to not tip. Yes, you can (usually) opt out, but the screen is telling you in no uncertain terms that tipping is probably a social norm here—if you choose to opt out, you are making the extra effort to break the norm.
Otherwise, why bother setting the default at all rather than force the user to enter an explicit amount every time, like on a restaurant bill?
Also, there's a whole subbranch of behavioral economics ('nudge' economics) that basically studies how to frame choices and set defaults to influence decision making [1]. Advertisers and politicians also take advantage of the power of framing and defaults.
So getting back to the ethics of the issue, it'd be interesting to see data on how much the default influences the actual tip paid, and how that incentivizes the actual business owner (e.g. set a higher tip rate, pay a lower wage?)
> Yes, you can (usually) opt out, but the screen is telling you in no uncertain terms that tipping is probably a social norm here—if you choose to opt out, you are making the extra effort to break the norm.
Yes, and that's ok when a tip is deserved, but apps that ask me to tip counter help are bullshit. Those people aren't paid less than kitchen workers because they're not expected to earn tips, and they don't do anything beyond the minimal expected work (fetching a donut, operating a cash-register).
As you suggest, the tip app is a way to get proprietors to invest in POS so they can substitute tips for wages.
No one makes out (again) except some silicon valley executive.
It's such an obvious ploy that it is actually offensive, and makes me feel like I want to tip less just to punish the system designer for their presumption.
I like when they set the defaults even higher than 20%. I went to a Sports Clips and the lowest default was $5 on an $18 haircut, with I think $10 being the highest. They spend probably 20 minutes on a basic haircut. I don't think that a 50%+ tip is reasonable.
I’m more annoyed about sit down restaurants that automatically add “living wage fees” or “aca coverage costs” to bills before tip.
How is this acceptable? What other industry quotes prices that don’t include wage costs, then bill for a higher amount.
It’s particularly bad because pulling the percentage out of the tip lowers the percentage of the amount I pay that would go to the server (vs baking the price into the menu cost), so it’s dishonest pricing and also convoluted tip theft.
I suspect the practices you describe are politically motivated advertising of prices (and related to price discrimination).
To add on a living wage fee is to imply that a lower price available at other restaurants does not pay a living wage. This is a left of center virtue signal: "Eat here, where we make sure our staff earn a living wage."
To add on an ACA coverage fee is to imply that, without mandatory healthcare, the restaurant could afford to give you a better price. This is a right of center nudge toward action: "You're in favor of mandatory healthcare, and here is what it's costing you."
Both fees are crass, tone-deaf choices but, unless the receipt literally says, "we take this out of the tip," it isn't theft. You're irritated (reasonably) but are choosing to tip less, which seems like picking out the wrong party to punish for restaurant policy.
Tip well, and then tell the owner that you won't be eating there again because of the politically motivated fees.
I've never seen such things, but unless it's stated clearly somewhere beforehand on the menu or elsewhere, I'm pretty sure you don't have to pay such bullshit costs. You should bring it up to the manager and ask why you're being charged for things you didn't order. Those restaurants are clearly run by greedy assholes, so they should be confronted.
I hate the tipping system ("tipping") in the US. It's so forced and only benefits the business owner. You should not have to rely on uncertain tips to make up a minimum wage that is just stupid. Both parties keep the system alive, someone has to break the cycle.
It's a mess but hard to fix. Customers can't unilaterally "break the cycle." They'd effectively just be underpaying for service.
Some restaurant owners have added automatic service charges or marked up prices to include service, but that's a mess too. If they mark up prices and customers don't realize service is included, they'll think the prices are too high and go elsewhere. If they add a mandatory service charge, customers might feel ripped off and will worry the fee doesn't really go to the servers or that they should still leave a tip.
Restaurant owners basically need to conspicuously state on the menu that service is included and the money will go to servers (and bussers, bartenders, etc.). But if you're a restaurant owner, do you want your menu dominated by a statement about your labor policies? There's a reason it's only really been tried by big name celebrity chefs, not your corner diner or Thai place.
It also benefits the tipped worker because they get to see more of that portion of their paycheck. Sales tax is never paid on tips and Income tax is rarely, if ever, paid either.
It's just a tax exemption that we've encoded into social behaviour.
The article explicitly addresses SF So this article is about a state which enforces a minimum wage above the US norm for workers in tip-heavy industries. US minimum wage is like $2.15 and federally mandated tip+wage rate is $7.25 and the Californian state wage is $10. This is functionally equivalent to federal minimum plus 30%.
I realize the transition moment here is confronting, and with family who work and depend on this class of labour I am completely aware of the immediate pay consequence, but even with this,
I think Californians should grab an opportunity to walk off tip culture, and walk into 'fair pay for work' culture.
The minimum wage is not fair? Lets support all workers for a fair minimum wage. End tip culture.
For the people saying that this would have unintended consequences, that may well be the case. Somehow, the rest of the world seems to get by without the same tipping culture.
Moving towards a fair pay for work culture may require more than just 'not tipping', but we already have many examples where it is the case. Prices may go up, or tax laws need to change, but just because there are thin margins in the industry doesn't mean that the only way to survive is to force workers to live off their tips. In so many cases it seems like tipping culture merely serves to hide the true cost of a meal or service.
Similarly, the odd practice of not including any taxes in the sticker price on goods. This one in particular feels anti-consumer, and seems to persist because sellers worry that their prices, if listed including taxes, would seem higher than the competition. I'm surprised more retailers don't buck this trend more often; realising that taxes were included in Cafe du Monde's list price for their coffee and biegnets made the experience even more enjoyable than it otherwise would have been, and definitely contributed to a few of the midnight treks I made to get that particular treat.
> I think Californians should grab an opportunity to walk off tip culture, and walk into 'fair pay for work' culture.
The minimum wage is not fair? Lets support all workers for a fair minimum wage. End tip culture.
It is far from clear that getting rid of tips is good for tipped workers, at the end of the day [1]. Basically, there may be unintended consequences.
Also, due to a quirk of tax law, getting rid of tips would result in higher total prices. This is because we don't pay sales tax on the tip currently. If this payment were built into the cost of the meal, sales tax would go up. Not a huge difference, but it adds up — and restaurants are low-margin businesses to begin with.
I like how you think.
I especially think you're in the right with the opportunity for Californians to walk off the tip culture. This would set a great precedent to reproduce this on a national level, if done correctly.
The minimum wage in San Francisco is $15 per hour. That's including tipped work: if you don't make that amount from wages and tips you're supposed to be paid extra.
I suspect distributing the cost of the money a restaurant makes from tips across all the customers would lead to many restaurants closing.
A quick absurdist example - if a restaurant has 10 customers and 1 gives a $1000 tip, increasing all the bills by $100 instead would mean the 9 customers who didn't tip would likely stop eating there.
These types of systems have pushed me toward carrying cash again. After feeling manipulated and/or guilty by the tip-requesting interface in situations where I would not normally tip or might throw spare change in a jar (vs the several dollars that's being solicited), I now pay in cash. It gives me the control over the transaction that I had previous to the interfaces' existence and I don't leave the situation with negative feelings.
Why feel guilty about it at all? Up here in Canada we have had pin validated transactions for a long time now, and the terminals have had tip prompts at least since we switched to chip and pin. It is just a reflex now when ordering at a counter to select "$ tip" and hit enter for zero tip. Annoying, but when every place seems to do it, it is easy to get over the feelings of manipulation and guilt.
I hate paying with square so much that I've sometimes paid cash or just lowered a given business' standing in my preference hierarchy so I have to deal with the hassle less often. Everything about it is awkward, not just the tipping. There's no consistency. Every place has a slightly different variation, sometimes you swipe the card on the pad, sometimes insert it into a detached device, sometimes you hand it to the cashier. Writing your name on the pad with your finger is annoying as hell. Pads and screens make some tasks worse in general.
Paying used to be so simple, now between chips and square it's become a hassle.
It seems to me that tipping has evolved from an incentive and reward for good service to a form of voluntary workfare where those who have something to spare decide to share with those still struggling in the low end of the service economy.
I think that the history of tipping is more complex than that. My understanding is that at high end restaurants back in the day waitstaff paid the house for tables, and their entire income was from tips.
That being said, I’d much rather society move towards the idea that every job pay at least a living wage
yes! tipping is like a naturally occuring form of redistrbution of wealth in capitalist countries :) I personally view the evolution of tipping culture as positive on the whole.
and also, I think people tend to tip a bit higher if they feel good about the service, so it still incentivizes good service. When I visit Europe, I am reminded how nice the service industry in America is.
I am confused as to why it's standard to tip some low-paid workers but not others:
* Fast-food workers do just as much work as coffee shop employees, why not tip them?
* Workers at clothing stores take the time to fold your clothes nicely and box/bag them for you - why not tip them?
* Grocery store checkout clerks in the city carefully bag up your goods so you can carry them with just two hands - why not tip them?
* The guy collecting trash from the streets to keep them clean is helping everyone, why not tip him?
It does seem at some point the tipping system will grow so large it'll collapse in on itself. Sadly though, places that have tried to move that direction, in NYC at least, seem to have struggled [0][1].
FWIW, tipped workers typically work for an hourly wage lower than the minimum wage, and are expected to earn the rest from tips. Most of the jobs you're talking about are not in the tipping wage category, and management just has to monitor carefully. Fast food has tons of computers to do exactly that, and even department stores have secret shoppers and cameras to observe staff. Grocery stores have crazy levels of cameras to monitor staff; I'd say about 70 percent of the cameras are pointed at the cashier (the remainder at you as you wander the store to calculate dwell time and deter theft). Trash collection I don't even know the company behind it let alone ever seen the driver. I assume they have GPS and cameras now that communities have moved to those machine arm trucks.
Tipping is a sort of economic hack; you the customer are responsible for evaluating service, and punishing inept or even just lazy service. You're the final buyer of the service, so in a way it's fair; just atypically lassiez-faire method versus the usual social hierarchy of companies paying managers to supervise service workers.
I figure if tipping dies, it will be because there's a separate economic hack undermining it. When you live somewhere where restaurants start and fail every month, the cost of a bad tipper reputation is pretty low. And if you adopt an upfront tip model to combat this, you're people's losing good faith as the fee-for-service model no longer applies -- which this article directly discusses.
All of which puts us in the awkward position of trying to figure out whether the lunch spot we visit is paying its staff a tipped wage without any actual service -- no bussing, no setting, and just a beeper to let you know you should grab your food.
I'm convinced that those systems have deliberately be made to push the customer to tip (more) and therefore increase the transaction fee for the payment operator (Square most of the time).
Most of the workdays, I go eat lunch at "order at the counter" places. The Square ipad is directly visible to everyone behind me in the line as they can all see that I put "No tip". More than once, I have seen people look back to check if other people in the line would see their choice, and subsequently change it to a "socially acceptable" tip of 15%.
I never tip at an order-at-the-counter restaurant. If I place my order at the counter, and get my own drink, find my own table, etc., I'm not sure what there is to tip for.
Shifting the burden of paying employees to the customer via guilt and coercion is what's wrong here. Customers should not be made to feel like an asshole for not appreciating seeing their quoted price go up 20%. Lobbying Congress? Start with not supporting dickheads who do this. Charge 20% more and pay your employees properly
Where I am there are a lot of restaurants with the Square tablets on a pivot, and what I've noticed is that with fast-food-type places the worker will turn their head away while you enter the tip amount. Or they'll preselect, "no tip"
I too am annoyed by the ubiquity of these tip prompts, but the manners haven't changed. (It's been on credit card slips forever.) People shouldn't feel obligated to tip just because, say, it's the owner serving cold brew from his food truck.
It feels like a dark pattern for sure. I tip for service and service only. I regularly hit the no tip button on the new interfaces. I wish I didn’t have to worry about tipping... I miss Uber when it abstracted that away. But alas it only works when they compensate drivers properly.
Tipping in general sucks. I feel like most of the time it’s manipulating customers into squeezing a little extra on the top. Just raise your prices.
Was in a restaurant recently, asked for the bill and when it came it already had a 10% tip included in it and a big spiel about how the company wanted to treat their staff right and that if you wanted to opt out, you could... What cheek. Never going back there again and I've spread the word to my friends of mine.
I'm UK based by and by. Keep that nonsense in the US.
Amazon Whole Foods delivery is the worst offender in this area. You finish your order and on the confirmation screen they add a tiny little line item for a preselected 10% tip. Suddenly your "free" delivery is now $15.
Lots of fast casual places now have a tip on their screens. I always choose 0.
I mean seriously the only interaction I'm having lasted 30 seconds, I'll never see this person again / they won't do anything more for me, no tip needed...
I hate tipping as it is (granted I do tip in non fast casual food situations). I'd rather just the cost be up front.
I used to feel the same, but then I started to appreciate just how fortunate I am to not have to work in retail. This isn’t because I’m better. It’s just because I was born into the right situation.
I always tip now and use the experience as a reminder not to take my fortune for granted. It’s also a reminder that everything I have might be taken away at any time.
I really don't like how this is moving from just food-service workers to pretty much everything.
The #1 reason I liked Uber/Lyft was you didn't have to tip. Then the margins didn't make sense and now they ask for it. I shouldn't have to subsidize those rides with tips because you're not paying the driver enough. Just charge me the price you need to charge me.
In this scenario, especially in SF as a tech worker, you should feel guilty if you can afford to spare a dollar for someone on minimum wage for a tip but are reaching for the zero button. Having the iPad highlight your stingyness is not a problem with the technology.
Couldn't agree more. Don't like tipping an extra dollar for a coffee once in a while? Make it at home. If you can't spare $15 a week to tip service employees when you're sporting a six-figure salary, shame on you.
If you're a regular at a coffeeshop/fast casual place, another perk of tipping is that you quickly become known as a tipper and employees will come to like you. If you need a selfish reason to tip beyond having the employees like you, sometimes they'll even hook you up with free/discounted stuff.
It's easy to just eat out one fewer time a week and redistribute the would-have-been-spent-anyway money as tips to service employees, regardless of how much you think they actually 'did' for you.
I live in either NZ, the UK or China, depending on work. None of these have a tipping culture. It's the cultural and psychological aspects that are fascinating, particularly the comments that list proof that in the US, if outlets show real prices, i.e. those that the customer will actually pay, including tax and gratuities, people go elsewhere, to outlets that give a false sense of economy.
Personally, I've found that when in the US I felt the food to be cheap, but when I pay the bill, the actual cost to be largely equivalent to other western countries. But, I still harbour the irrational feeling that the US is cheaper, even though the receipts I submit don't reflect this "feeling".
Tipping (and non listed taxes) is the 99c cost point writ large. To me it seems, all other considerations (discomfort, worker's rights, fairness, etc.) are overwhelmed by the lower price ticket.
[+] [-] dgzl|7 years ago|reply
"Tipping again changed in the 1960s, when Congress agreed that workers could receive a lower minimum wage if a portion of their salary came from tips. The minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13, which has not changed in over 20 years, as long as those workers receive at least $7.25 in tips per hour. Saru Jayaraman, author of Behind the Kitchen Door, explains that a minimum wage of $2.13 means that their full wage will go toward taxes and forces tipped workers to live off their tips." [1]
[1] https://www.tripsavvy.com/a-brief-history-of-tipping-1329249
[+] [-] matthewowen|7 years ago|reply
Wait staff etc must still receive full minimum wage in addition to any tips they receive.
[+] [-] vostok|7 years ago|reply
Imagine if you receive an offer with $160k salary per year, $100k expected public RSUs per year, and $100k expected bonus per year. You'll be upset if you only make $160k salary even though that's above minimum wage.
[+] [-] jjeaff|7 years ago|reply
20% is not normal. 20% is very high for very good service.
15 years ago, 15% was normal. Now the minimum on these pos pos's is 18.
I tip 15% and no more unless service was well above normal.
And I have no qualms about hitting 0 for anything that isn't sit down service, including Uber and Lyft.
We have to fight this tip creep or we will live in a world where every service employee is paid with 100% tips by those that feel guilty enough to pay it while all the cheapskates freeload.
[+] [-] fiblye|7 years ago|reply
Last time I went to a restaurant in the US, I got scolded because I refused to tip when the waitress brought my food out cold and never once gave me a refill. I'm apparently "supposed" to tip 25% these days.
When people do their job, I'm okay with tipping. But I'm not OK with tipping based on the price of the meal. A person who works at a $70/plate restaurant and keeps filling my glass of water up with ice before I can finish it, making it unbearably cold, really isn't doing anything better than an overworked waiter in a $7/plate dirty hole in the wall shack. The skills don't differ (and I'm honestly often impressed with how skill-less waiters are at high-end American restaurants--they're worse than typical servers in any other country) and they're not the ones making the meals.
Just bring me a drink that's at least 90% drink and not 90% ice, bring my food out before it's cold, and get me a refill within a few minutes of running out and I have no trouble dropping $10 or $20--the price of the meal doesn't factor into that. Fail to do that, and you're getting nothing--I don't care how expensive the meal is that the chef prepared, but you had zero involvement so you're not entitled to that cash.
But I'm glad I'm not living in a place with a toxic restaurant culture, so it's not my problem anymore. :)
[+] [-] smallnamespace|7 years ago|reply
If the 'default' tip on the app is 15% or 20%, then you need to make an affirmative choice to not tip. Yes, you can (usually) opt out, but the screen is telling you in no uncertain terms that tipping is probably a social norm here—if you choose to opt out, you are making the extra effort to break the norm.
Otherwise, why bother setting the default at all rather than force the user to enter an explicit amount every time, like on a restaurant bill?
Also, there's a whole subbranch of behavioral economics ('nudge' economics) that basically studies how to frame choices and set defaults to influence decision making [1]. Advertisers and politicians also take advantage of the power of framing and defaults.
So getting back to the ethics of the issue, it'd be interesting to see data on how much the default influences the actual tip paid, and how that incentivizes the actual business owner (e.g. set a higher tip rate, pay a lower wage?)
[1] http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/richard.thaler/research/pdf/...
[+] [-] ljw1001|7 years ago|reply
Yes, and that's ok when a tip is deserved, but apps that ask me to tip counter help are bullshit. Those people aren't paid less than kitchen workers because they're not expected to earn tips, and they don't do anything beyond the minimal expected work (fetching a donut, operating a cash-register).
As you suggest, the tip app is a way to get proprietors to invest in POS so they can substitute tips for wages.
No one makes out (again) except some silicon valley executive.
[+] [-] marssaxman|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AviationAtom|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hedora|7 years ago|reply
How is this acceptable? What other industry quotes prices that don’t include wage costs, then bill for a higher amount.
It’s particularly bad because pulling the percentage out of the tip lowers the percentage of the amount I pay that would go to the server (vs baking the price into the menu cost), so it’s dishonest pricing and also convoluted tip theft.
[+] [-] sfRattan|7 years ago|reply
To add on a living wage fee is to imply that a lower price available at other restaurants does not pay a living wage. This is a left of center virtue signal: "Eat here, where we make sure our staff earn a living wage."
To add on an ACA coverage fee is to imply that, without mandatory healthcare, the restaurant could afford to give you a better price. This is a right of center nudge toward action: "You're in favor of mandatory healthcare, and here is what it's costing you."
Both fees are crass, tone-deaf choices but, unless the receipt literally says, "we take this out of the tip," it isn't theft. You're irritated (reasonably) but are choosing to tip less, which seems like picking out the wrong party to punish for restaurant policy.
Tip well, and then tell the owner that you won't be eating there again because of the politically motivated fees.
[+] [-] mnm1|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Rainymood|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smelendez|7 years ago|reply
Some restaurant owners have added automatic service charges or marked up prices to include service, but that's a mess too. If they mark up prices and customers don't realize service is included, they'll think the prices are too high and go elsewhere. If they add a mandatory service charge, customers might feel ripped off and will worry the fee doesn't really go to the servers or that they should still leave a tip.
Restaurant owners basically need to conspicuously state on the menu that service is included and the money will go to servers (and bussers, bartenders, etc.). But if you're a restaurant owner, do you want your menu dominated by a statement about your labor policies? There's a reason it's only really been tried by big name celebrity chefs, not your corner diner or Thai place.
[+] [-] scarejunba|7 years ago|reply
It's just a tax exemption that we've encoded into social behaviour.
[+] [-] ggm|7 years ago|reply
I realize the transition moment here is confronting, and with family who work and depend on this class of labour I am completely aware of the immediate pay consequence, but even with this,
I think Californians should grab an opportunity to walk off tip culture, and walk into 'fair pay for work' culture.
The minimum wage is not fair? Lets support all workers for a fair minimum wage. End tip culture.
[+] [-] Cogito|7 years ago|reply
Moving towards a fair pay for work culture may require more than just 'not tipping', but we already have many examples where it is the case. Prices may go up, or tax laws need to change, but just because there are thin margins in the industry doesn't mean that the only way to survive is to force workers to live off their tips. In so many cases it seems like tipping culture merely serves to hide the true cost of a meal or service.
Similarly, the odd practice of not including any taxes in the sticker price on goods. This one in particular feels anti-consumer, and seems to persist because sellers worry that their prices, if listed including taxes, would seem higher than the competition. I'm surprised more retailers don't buck this trend more often; realising that taxes were included in Cafe du Monde's list price for their coffee and biegnets made the experience even more enjoyable than it otherwise would have been, and definitely contributed to a few of the midnight treks I made to get that particular treat.
[+] [-] gnicholas|7 years ago|reply
The minimum wage is not fair? Lets support all workers for a fair minimum wage. End tip culture.
It is far from clear that getting rid of tips is good for tipped workers, at the end of the day [1]. Basically, there may be unintended consequences.
Also, due to a quirk of tax law, getting rid of tips would result in higher total prices. This is because we don't pay sales tax on the tip currently. If this payment were built into the cost of the meal, sales tax would go up. Not a huge difference, but it adds up — and restaurants are low-margin businesses to begin with.
1: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/get-rid-of-tips-and-...
[+] [-] tvh|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mFixman|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] onion2k|7 years ago|reply
A quick absurdist example - if a restaurant has 10 customers and 1 gives a $1000 tip, increasing all the bills by $100 instead would mean the 9 customers who didn't tip would likely stop eating there.
[+] [-] corvallis|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] starky|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gdulli|7 years ago|reply
Paying used to be so simple, now between chips and square it's become a hassle.
[+] [-] blacksqr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pacaro|7 years ago|reply
That being said, I’d much rather society move towards the idea that every job pay at least a living wage
[+] [-] exacube|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] freditup|7 years ago|reply
* Fast-food workers do just as much work as coffee shop employees, why not tip them?
* Workers at clothing stores take the time to fold your clothes nicely and box/bag them for you - why not tip them?
* Grocery store checkout clerks in the city carefully bag up your goods so you can carry them with just two hands - why not tip them?
* The guy collecting trash from the streets to keep them clean is helping everyone, why not tip him?
It does seem at some point the tipping system will grow so large it'll collapse in on itself. Sadly though, places that have tried to move that direction, in NYC at least, seem to have struggled [0][1].
[0]: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/why-res... [1]: http://gothamist.com/2017/10/19/danny_meyer_no_tipping.php
[+] [-] jldugger|7 years ago|reply
Tipping is a sort of economic hack; you the customer are responsible for evaluating service, and punishing inept or even just lazy service. You're the final buyer of the service, so in a way it's fair; just atypically lassiez-faire method versus the usual social hierarchy of companies paying managers to supervise service workers.
I figure if tipping dies, it will be because there's a separate economic hack undermining it. When you live somewhere where restaurants start and fail every month, the cost of a bad tipper reputation is pretty low. And if you adopt an upfront tip model to combat this, you're people's losing good faith as the fee-for-service model no longer applies -- which this article directly discusses.
All of which puts us in the awkward position of trying to figure out whether the lunch spot we visit is paying its staff a tipped wage without any actual service -- no bussing, no setting, and just a beeper to let you know you should grab your food.
[+] [-] debt|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ironjunkie|7 years ago|reply
Most of the workdays, I go eat lunch at "order at the counter" places. The Square ipad is directly visible to everyone behind me in the line as they can all see that I put "No tip". More than once, I have seen people look back to check if other people in the line would see their choice, and subsequently change it to a "socially acceptable" tip of 15%.
[+] [-] ams6110|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] safgasCVS|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bdcravens|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tdurden|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GhostVII|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomc1985|7 years ago|reply
I too am annoyed by the ubiquity of these tip prompts, but the manners haven't changed. (It's been on credit card slips forever.) People shouldn't feel obligated to tip just because, say, it's the owner serving cold brew from his food truck.
[+] [-] lbotos|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edoceo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whalesalad|7 years ago|reply
Tipping in general sucks. I feel like most of the time it’s manipulating customers into squeezing a little extra on the top. Just raise your prices.
[+] [-] dev_north_east|7 years ago|reply
I'm UK based by and by. Keep that nonsense in the US.
[+] [-] trocadero|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] duxup|7 years ago|reply
I mean seriously the only interaction I'm having lasted 30 seconds, I'll never see this person again / they won't do anything more for me, no tip needed...
I hate tipping as it is (granted I do tip in non fast casual food situations). I'd rather just the cost be up front.
[+] [-] hoodwink|7 years ago|reply
I always tip now and use the experience as a reminder not to take my fortune for granted. It’s also a reminder that everything I have might be taken away at any time.
[+] [-] rahimnathwani|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] egypturnash|7 years ago|reply
Also: how much spit do you estimate you've consumed when eating at places where you're a regular who is known to never tip?
[+] [-] joelrunyon|7 years ago|reply
The #1 reason I liked Uber/Lyft was you didn't have to tip. Then the margins didn't make sense and now they ask for it. I shouldn't have to subsidize those rides with tips because you're not paying the driver enough. Just charge me the price you need to charge me.
[+] [-] maym86|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] plants|7 years ago|reply
If you're a regular at a coffeeshop/fast casual place, another perk of tipping is that you quickly become known as a tipper and employees will come to like you. If you need a selfish reason to tip beyond having the employees like you, sometimes they'll even hook you up with free/discounted stuff.
It's easy to just eat out one fewer time a week and redistribute the would-have-been-spent-anyway money as tips to service employees, regardless of how much you think they actually 'did' for you.
[+] [-] avastmick|7 years ago|reply
Personally, I've found that when in the US I felt the food to be cheap, but when I pay the bill, the actual cost to be largely equivalent to other western countries. But, I still harbour the irrational feeling that the US is cheaper, even though the receipts I submit don't reflect this "feeling".
Tipping (and non listed taxes) is the 99c cost point writ large. To me it seems, all other considerations (discomfort, worker's rights, fairness, etc.) are overwhelmed by the lower price ticket.
Thoughts?