Can we update the title to reflect the research by adding "in mice" at the end of it?
The effect of calorie restriction on aging in rodents has been known since the 1930s. Which does not diminish the value of identifying the precise molecule that triggers this, but it does mean that this shouldn't necessarily be used as justification for a fasting diet.
"It has been known since the 1930s that reducing the number of calories fed to laboratory rodents increases their life spans. The life extension varies for each species, but on average there was a 30–40% increase in life span in both mice and rats.[30] In late adulthood, acute CR partially or completely reverses age-related alterations of liver, brain and heart proteins, and mice placed on CR at 19 months of age show an increases in life span.[78] "
It has been shown that longer lives occur in many species, from yeasts and c.elegans, to primates. Pubmed fetches lots of articles (arguing for both sides) given a search like 'caloric restriction aging'
I'm on a day 4 of a water-only fast and have completed a two-week medically supervised fast as well as many other shorter fast.
As an anecdote, I can say water-only fasting in combination with a high nutrient density plant-based diet has helped me overcome some serious allergies and other health conditions. As an added bonus, I've lost 65 pounds from my peak weight over the last few years and my weight has been stable. It's not a panacea, but I've found it to be a net benefit.
For those interested in a deeper dive on the benefits of water-only fasting and diets that try to mimic its benefits, as well as time-restricted feeding, see:
Valter Longo, Ph.D. on Fasting-Mimicking Diet & Fasting for Longevity, Cancer & Multiple Sclerosis [1]
Dr. Valter Longo on Resetting Autoimmunity and Rejuvenating Systems with Prolonged Fasting & the FMD [2]
Dr. Satchin Panda on Time-Restricted Feeding and Its Effects on Obesity, Muscle Mass & Heart Health [3]
Dr. Satchin Panda on Practical Implementation of Time-Restricted Eating & Shift Work Strategies [4]
Given that Dr. Longo promotes a diet that contains some calorie intake (~500 daily), why did you decide on water only fast? I am trying to choose between those two options myself.
I know it's just one data point, but I've been doing a very mild form of intermittent fasting (more time-restricted eating) since June, and have been very happy with the results. (I stop eating by 8pm, don't start again until noon, but haven't done much in terms of changing what I'm actually eating.) At 5'5", I went from 156lbs. to 143 (goal is 135), and it's been relatively easy.
Your mileage may vary, of course, but I feel great. This was inspired by a paper I read (I believe linked-to in this article, but I'll have to track it down later.)
I’m 55 6’1/2” I’ve always done weights but only about 1 hr per week because of family long work hours etc.
1 year ago I moved from UK to Portugal (brexit), I was 95 kg 209 lbs, was disgusted with my self and wanted to get beach presentable body back. So I tried one meal a day - results were astonishing lost 10kg in 6 weeks. I’ve kept it going with a few cheat days 1 or 2 days per week and kept at around 86 Kg 189lbs. By far the easiest diet i’ve tried, I find it much easier to just not eat than to eat small portions, low carb also worked for me before but so difficult to maintain.
I eat what I like now, inc pizza fries burgers etc though I try and eat lots of veg 4 meals a week. Just lots of black coffee lots off water and Himalayan salt rest of the time.
My colleague was in early stages of type II diabetes taking Metformin etc, he tried the same and it completely cured him with 8 weeks, his doctor couldn’t believe it.
Close your eating window to 4 hours and eliminate carbs. You'll drop weight incredibly fast. Delay lunch until 1-2pm and then have an early dinner if you can't bring yourself to eating just one meal a day.
I did this and it is amazing, but I failed to keep it up long enough to become my normal.
And they know it can be made in the body, free of charge, by changing eating schedule. Sounds like maybe convincing people to change their eating schedule is the way to go?
Can anyone read the study and actually tell how long or what kind of fasting did it take to gain those results? The article just quotes a scientist about fasting for 24 hours.
Well, the fast lasted for 72 hours, but it's important to note that the subjects were lab mice, not humans.
From the paper:
Mice strains
C57BL/6J mice were purchased from the Jackson Laboratory. All mice were housed in temperature-controlled rooms with a 12 h light-dark cycle and given free access to water and food. After starvation for 5 h, 8 weeks-old male mice were injected intraperitoneally with PBS, β-HB, or S-β-HB (1.5 g/kg body weight in PBS). In parallel, 8 weeks-old male mice were randomized and fed a regular chow diet or fasted for 72 h. Then, the mice were sacrificed. Tissues were collected for gene expression evaluation in various organs including the aorta, liver, heart, brain, adipose, and kidney (n = 6). All animal protocols were reviewed and approved by the Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee at Georgia State University.
Also note the slightly confusing setup of the study. Some mice were first fasted for a short time (5 hours) then injected with the tested molecules. Then a different batch of mice were fasted for a longer period of time (72 hours). The second batch where tested blindly and at random, the first one where not. To me, that sounds very strange, but I'm not a biologist, so.
All the other studies I’ve heard about said that the benefits of fasting kick in pretty quickly, with 24hrs being plenty to get quite a few benefits.
Edit: personal experience and some scant scientific evidence seems to point to there being a significant difference between men and women on this one. Men seem to accrue more benefits with longer fasts (diminishing returns though), women seem to get metabolically stressed earlier on. More studies are needed though.
Since the benefits seem to be linked to ketosis, I believe we’re talking about fasts longer than 1-3 days, since that’s typically how long it takes to reach ketosis. So anywhere from 1-14 days, I would think.
Peter Attia is an interesting person to listen to discussing ketosis and fasting; in [1] he only eats fat for a week followed by a 1 week fast and a further week of ketosis afterwards.
In [2] he specifically talks about the benefits of Ketosis in depth with one of the leading experts in this field.
I do fast once in a week and I have seen good benefits. I have been doing this since 2014. This is what I do: Dont eat breakfast, lunch or anything till dinner. (Some people skip breakfast and dinner). Though I do drink lemon juice once in the day.
I obviously lost some weight, but more importantly it developed habit to ignore temptations. I find my self more relaxed overall.
All these different supposed anti-aging molecules that our body already produces.. e.g. nad+ also
I would love if these could be used to slow or even halt aging but i would worry there is reason the body doesn't produce more of these. It's been said before but would we be leaving ourselves open to more cancer?
>> i would worry there is reason the body doesn't produce more of these.
It's starting to look like the reason is the modern diet. And by modern I mean what we shifted to with the advent of farming several thousand years ago. 3 meals a day with high carbohydrate content. This puts you into the mode of converting carbs to fat for storage and never gives the opportunity to go into a mode of retrieving fat for energy. One specific reaction to eating carbs is an insulin response, which can last several hours. It's looking like people weren't design (evolved) to live that way. Type II diabetes (insulin resistance) is looking entirely preventable and perhaps reversible if one goes keto. You're just not going to produce the chemicals needed for one mode of operation when you're telling the body to do something else. These diets are proving that you can get it to produce another set of chemical in clinically meaningful quantities.
Has the surge been all year, or only the past few days? The large Jewish fast, Yom Kipporim, starts tomorrow evening and people love to find scientific explanations for their strange habits.
If my comment sounds condescending, then be there no mistake: I'm Jewish and I'll be fasting.
It must be an up-and-coming Internet trend/meme (a la what color is the dress?) in the health community. One of my coworkers just transitioned from a ketogenic diet to intermittent fasting.
I am in a study by Stanford University to only eat during a ten hour period each day. So far, I am sleeping better but subjectively that is all I can say.
I do personally believe that in the past occasional 20 to 24 hour fasting and not eating after 6pm has increased my feeling of being healthy. My personal experiences don’t have much meaning so I am looking forward to more proper scientific studies in the future.
Looking up details of the study design, the molecule in question, β-Hydroxybutyrate, was tested in vitro on human tissue, and in vivo only on mice, so, as usual, wait patiently to see if there is any confirmation in, say, a large-scale study of a human population.
The researchers tested the efficacy of β-hydroxybutyrate against cellular senescence in vitro on human umbilical vein endothelial cells and human aortic smooth muscle cells, and they observed the beneficial effects of this molecule in vivo: by injecting β-hydroxybutyrate into fasting mice, the scientists were able to alleviate the senescence of the animals’ aortae.
[+] [-] fabricexpert|7 years ago|reply
The effect of calorie restriction on aging in rodents has been known since the 1930s. Which does not diminish the value of identifying the precise molecule that triggers this, but it does mean that this shouldn't necessarily be used as justification for a fasting diet.
"It has been known since the 1930s that reducing the number of calories fed to laboratory rodents increases their life spans. The life extension varies for each species, but on average there was a 30–40% increase in life span in both mice and rats.[30] In late adulthood, acute CR partially or completely reverses age-related alterations of liver, brain and heart proteins, and mice placed on CR at 19 months of age show an increases in life span.[78] "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_restriction
[+] [-] ransom1538|7 years ago|reply
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...
[+] [-] vlg|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] bodhibyte|7 years ago|reply
As an anecdote, I can say water-only fasting in combination with a high nutrient density plant-based diet has helped me overcome some serious allergies and other health conditions. As an added bonus, I've lost 65 pounds from my peak weight over the last few years and my weight has been stable. It's not a panacea, but I've found it to be a net benefit.
For those interested in a deeper dive on the benefits of water-only fasting and diets that try to mimic its benefits, as well as time-restricted feeding, see:
Valter Longo, Ph.D. on Fasting-Mimicking Diet & Fasting for Longevity, Cancer & Multiple Sclerosis [1]
Dr. Valter Longo on Resetting Autoimmunity and Rejuvenating Systems with Prolonged Fasting & the FMD [2]
Dr. Satchin Panda on Time-Restricted Feeding and Its Effects on Obesity, Muscle Mass & Heart Health [3]
Dr. Satchin Panda on Practical Implementation of Time-Restricted Eating & Shift Work Strategies [4]
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6PyyatqJSE
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGFWRXEzz8
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R-eqJDQ2nU
[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iywhaz5z0qs
[Edit to fix typos and formatting]
[+] [-] dpatrick86|7 years ago|reply
FYI: these episodes also have a transcript and show notes not available at the youtube URL. Here they are...
[1] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter-longo
[2] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter-longo-2
[3] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-panda
[4] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-round-2
This discussion may also be relevant to ketogenic diets where BHB is produced. See these two episodes focused on research on the ketogenic diet...
• https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/eric-verdin
• https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/dominic-dagostino
[+] [-] dimastopel|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] riffraff|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amacbride|7 years ago|reply
Your mileage may vary, of course, but I feel great. This was inspired by a paper I read (I believe linked-to in this article, but I'll have to track it down later.)
https://www.the-scientist.com/features/running-on-empty-3143...
[+] [-] garyclarke27|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phkahler|7 years ago|reply
I did this and it is amazing, but I failed to keep it up long enough to become my normal.
[+] [-] albertgoeswoof|7 years ago|reply
Sure about that? Pretty unlikely you’ll lose weight if you’re consuming the same calories
[+] [-] phkahler|7 years ago|reply
"we are working on finding a new chemical that can mimic the effect of this ketone body's function"
They know what the molecule is and it works in mice. I presume they want to find a patentable molecule to mimic the natural one.
[+] [-] ecolonsmak|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arcticbull|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Apocryphon|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] YeGoblynQueenne|7 years ago|reply
From the paper:
Mice strains
C57BL/6J mice were purchased from the Jackson Laboratory. All mice were housed in temperature-controlled rooms with a 12 h light-dark cycle and given free access to water and food. After starvation for 5 h, 8 weeks-old male mice were injected intraperitoneally with PBS, β-HB, or S-β-HB (1.5 g/kg body weight in PBS). In parallel, 8 weeks-old male mice were randomized and fed a regular chow diet or fasted for 72 h. Then, the mice were sacrificed. Tissues were collected for gene expression evaluation in various organs including the aorta, liver, heart, brain, adipose, and kidney (n = 6). All animal protocols were reviewed and approved by the Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee at Georgia State University.
https://www.cell.com/molecular-cell/fulltext/S1097-2765(18)3...
Also note the slightly confusing setup of the study. Some mice were first fasted for a short time (5 hours) then injected with the tested molecules. Then a different batch of mice were fasted for a longer period of time (72 hours). The second batch where tested blindly and at random, the first one where not. To me, that sounds very strange, but I'm not a biologist, so.
[+] [-] village-idiot|7 years ago|reply
Edit: personal experience and some scant scientific evidence seems to point to there being a significant difference between men and women on this one. Men seem to accrue more benefits with longer fasts (diminishing returns though), women seem to get metabolically stressed earlier on. More studies are needed though.
[+] [-] sgrytoyr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hartator|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andy_ppp|7 years ago|reply
In [2] he specifically talks about the benefits of Ketosis in depth with one of the leading experts in this field.
[1] https://peterattiamd.com/ama02/
[2] https://peterattiamd.com/domdagostino/
[+] [-] pbhjpbhj|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] abcd_f|7 years ago|reply
[1] https://news.gsu.edu/2018/09/10/researchers-identify-molecul...
[+] [-] zerop|7 years ago|reply
I obviously lost some weight, but more importantly it developed habit to ignore temptations. I find my self more relaxed overall.
[+] [-] lawlessone|7 years ago|reply
I would love if these could be used to slow or even halt aging but i would worry there is reason the body doesn't produce more of these. It's been said before but would we be leaving ourselves open to more cancer?
[+] [-] phkahler|7 years ago|reply
It's starting to look like the reason is the modern diet. And by modern I mean what we shifted to with the advent of farming several thousand years ago. 3 meals a day with high carbohydrate content. This puts you into the mode of converting carbs to fat for storage and never gives the opportunity to go into a mode of retrieving fat for energy. One specific reaction to eating carbs is an insulin response, which can last several hours. It's looking like people weren't design (evolved) to live that way. Type II diabetes (insulin resistance) is looking entirely preventable and perhaps reversible if one goes keto. You're just not going to produce the chemicals needed for one mode of operation when you're telling the body to do something else. These diets are proving that you can get it to produce another set of chemical in clinically meaningful quantities.
[+] [-] krtkush|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fabricexpert|7 years ago|reply
Unless someone sells fasting chewing gum or something.
[+] [-] Jedi72|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Apocryphon|7 years ago|reply
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/04/silicon...
[+] [-] dotancohen|7 years ago|reply
If my comment sounds condescending, then be there no mistake: I'm Jewish and I'll be fasting.
[+] [-] black6|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mirekrusin|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] restallus|7 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur
[+] [-] abraham_lincoln|7 years ago|reply
Is fasting with water less effective?
[+] [-] davidf18|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mark_l_watson|7 years ago|reply
I do personally believe that in the past occasional 20 to 24 hour fasting and not eating after 6pm has increased my feeling of being healthy. My personal experiences don’t have much meaning so I am looking forward to more proper scientific studies in the future.
[+] [-] YeGoblynQueenne|7 years ago|reply
The researchers tested the efficacy of β-hydroxybutyrate against cellular senescence in vitro on human umbilical vein endothelial cells and human aortic smooth muscle cells, and they observed the beneficial effects of this molecule in vivo: by injecting β-hydroxybutyrate into fasting mice, the scientists were able to alleviate the senescence of the animals’ aortae.
https://www.leafscience.org/molecule-appears-to-have-anti-ag...
[+] [-] ainiriand|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] silverdrake11|7 years ago|reply