SF General Hospital has been seeing many scooter-related injuries.[1] The chief of emergency medicine reported three scooter related emergency room visits on one Friday - two concussions, no helmet use.
Such injuries used to be tallied as "other", because they were rare. SF General has started keeping statistics on small powered vehicle accidents.[2]
The emergency medicine people are saying "helmet". They can fix most other injuries, but not brain damage.
The high-tech solution to this comes from Hovding.[3] They make an automatic inflatable helmet that inflates like an air bag if you fall. It's available in Europe and Japan, but not the US. €299. It's impressive, but not as good as a hard helmet. It fails US helmet tests.[4] Good idea, needs more work. Startup potential.
A large use case for scooters is that you're walking around and you just hop on and ride to your destination. Any helmet you have you bring from home. That means you have to plan your trip, and carry your helmet the whole time.
These two factors, planning ahead, and carrying the item for the entire time you're not home, still exist with a Hovding. Carrying is easier for a hovding, but the use case of spontaneous use is still not satisfied.
People would rather wear this giant ring around their neck instead of a helmet? As someone who rides motorcycles and bicycles I have never had an issue restyling my hair. I don't get it. More power if it means more people are safer but I don't get this.
Edit: And not a negative comment to OP. Just curious the market for this.
Riders ride on the sidewalk because it's far more dangerous to ride on the street... cars are already not paying attention to bicyclists/motor cycles, are we to expect them to pay attention to scooters?
I live in a city doing a scooter pilot with a few companies including Bird. My observation has been that many, many scooter riders are:
* Breaking traffic laws(blowing through stop signs)
* Riding in the streets and through intersections without paying attention to traffic
* Riding quickly through parking lots without paying attention to traffic
* Riding unsafely on sidewalks
* Riding without helmets
Generally, being oblivious to any safety responsibility. I witnessed a guy the other day riding down the sidewalk with one of those long skinny beer packs across the deck flopping around and sliding off with something else in his arms.
It's super stressful operating a vehicle around the hot spots with this erratic, illegal behavior going on however I have yet to witness a vehicle plow them.
Totally agree. I live in the South Bay and occasionally ride a Bird scooter between the work bus and home. There's no way I'm riding on the bike lane without a helmet and I can't carry a helmet with me everywhere on the off chance a scooter is available. If anything characterizes drivers in this town it's their inattentiveness.
It is often more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk than on the street. Crosswalks are created with enough visibility for someone crossing the street on foot, but not on a bicycle or scooter: https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/47021/is-it-rea...
The solution is better driving and riding training for both drivers and riders. Much of the riding skills taught in motorcycling classes are meant to increase the likelihood of drivers seeing the rider, and how to take percautions against inattentive drivers.
I doubt there are the resources to provide bicyclists and scooter riders the same training, and most probably don't want to shell out $50-$150 on a riding class. But that's really the only feasible solution.
This type of thinking would do humanity a lot of good if applied to cars & rules of the road. In my opinion using a public resource (roads) you should be compelled to follow the rules
This was my first thought as well. The article quotes a councilmember as saying:
"Can we make sure that if you’re going down a sidewalk and you’re going bump bump bump because you hit everything on the sidewalk — that the scooter knows you’re on a sidewalk and really compels you get off the sidewalk," Ward said.
It would be interesting to apply this technology to cars, as well. Driving or parking in the bus lane or bike lane? "Really compel the driver to get out of that lane." Speeding in a school zone? "Really compel the driver to slow down." It would be nice if public transportation was faster (the point of bus lanes) and if kids could get to school without being mowed down by speeding cars. A much bigger problem than scooters, however annoying they may be on boardwalks.
We have played with such technology in NYC from time to time. One state Senator's vehicle has been caught going 36+ mph in a 25mph school zone 10 times and the same Senator is responsible for renewing the speed camera trials. Needless to say, he is opposed and the state Senate took no action:
This article ended up making the state Senate look so bad that the Governor apparently unilaterally extended the "trial" of the speed cameras, so maybe progress is being made. It still tends to be widely opposed by those in power (police officers are the other loudest anti-advocates); people do not like perfect enforcement of laws that they can't weasel their way out of with "do you know who I am!?" It's unfortunate.
While I think applying this to scooters is one thing, I do not want to live in a world where my car is artificially limited to 15mph in a 15 zone.
Yeah maybe we could reduce accidents by 0.1% or whatever. But you just know the damn thing will go on the fritz at some point or gps will be wrong and you’ll be going too slow somewhere else, or you’ll be a rush in an emergency and be unable to get where you’re going...plus (and this May be unpopular) that world just sounds boring and crappy. I don’t want my life controlled by the cloud.
It would have to apply to all vehicles because any new vehicle which enforced either would be unmarketable to a large number of people. Honestly, as much as I hate the idea, I do like the fact that the value of my non-nanny vehicles would likely increase if such a thing were to be mandated in new vehicles.
Sure, as long as we remove the financial aspect of it. Right now enforcement is more about revenue, so we need to cut that link before we get wild with automating enforcement.
the goal for supporters of such approaches is not safety, but rather control. new things signal a changing of the guard (no matter how remote the possibility), and they oppose it by reflex. grousing about blocked sidewalks and people getting hit by scooters is largely the brain rationalizing the underlying instinct so as to provide ego coherence (i.e., "i am a good and safe person" rather than "i'm trying to preserve my status in the world").
many people want scooters (along with bikes and e-bikes). it fills an important missing middle between walking and driving. the better approach is to replace parking lanes on city roads with a grade-separated (from both regular roads and sidewalks) lane for these missing middle modes of transportation.
as for road safety, strict imposition of the kind of regulation noted in the article actually creates danger. the reason we have such powerful engines in our cars is to provide headroom to accelerate out of accidents (where braking out of them would be difficult or impossible).
i'd be all for much harder driving tests, where licensees show a mastery of control over the vehicle in difficult conditions, much like commercial pilots. i'd also support stricter enforcement of distracted driving laws (rather than speed enforcements). those would actually help reduce auto deaths.
[+] [-] Animats|7 years ago|reply
Such injuries used to be tallied as "other", because they were rare. SF General has started keeping statistics on small powered vehicle accidents.[2]
The emergency medicine people are saying "helmet". They can fix most other injuries, but not brain damage.
The high-tech solution to this comes from Hovding.[3] They make an automatic inflatable helmet that inflates like an air bag if you fall. It's available in Europe and Japan, but not the US. €299. It's impressive, but not as good as a hard helmet. It fails US helmet tests.[4] Good idea, needs more work. Startup potential.
[1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Injuries-are-the... [2] https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2018/08/411406/scooter-safety-ucsf... [3] https://hovding.com/ [4] https://www.helmets.org/hovdingcommenttocpsc.htm
[+] [-] koube|7 years ago|reply
These two factors, planning ahead, and carrying the item for the entire time you're not home, still exist with a Hovding. Carrying is easier for a hovding, but the use case of spontaneous use is still not satisfied.
[+] [-] infecto|7 years ago|reply
Edit: And not a negative comment to OP. Just curious the market for this.
[+] [-] GW150914|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] X-Istence|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Rapzid|7 years ago|reply
* Breaking traffic laws(blowing through stop signs)
* Riding in the streets and through intersections without paying attention to traffic
* Riding quickly through parking lots without paying attention to traffic
* Riding unsafely on sidewalks
* Riding without helmets
Generally, being oblivious to any safety responsibility. I witnessed a guy the other day riding down the sidewalk with one of those long skinny beer packs across the deck flopping around and sliding off with something else in his arms.
It's super stressful operating a vehicle around the hot spots with this erratic, illegal behavior going on however I have yet to witness a vehicle plow them.
[+] [-] dannygarcia|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] manfredo|7 years ago|reply
The solution is better driving and riding training for both drivers and riders. Much of the riding skills taught in motorcycling classes are meant to increase the likelihood of drivers seeing the rider, and how to take percautions against inattentive drivers.
I doubt there are the resources to provide bicyclists and scooter riders the same training, and most probably don't want to shell out $50-$150 on a riding class. But that's really the only feasible solution.
[+] [-] teagee|7 years ago|reply
- Speed Limits
- Stop Signs
- ...
[+] [-] jrockway|7 years ago|reply
"Can we make sure that if you’re going down a sidewalk and you’re going bump bump bump because you hit everything on the sidewalk — that the scooter knows you’re on a sidewalk and really compels you get off the sidewalk," Ward said.
It would be interesting to apply this technology to cars, as well. Driving or parking in the bus lane or bike lane? "Really compel the driver to get out of that lane." Speeding in a school zone? "Really compel the driver to slow down." It would be nice if public transportation was faster (the point of bus lanes) and if kids could get to school without being mowed down by speeding cars. A much bigger problem than scooters, however annoying they may be on boardwalks.
We have played with such technology in NYC from time to time. One state Senator's vehicle has been caught going 36+ mph in a 25mph school zone 10 times and the same Senator is responsible for renewing the speed camera trials. Needless to say, he is opposed and the state Senate took no action:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/nyregion/marty-golden-sch...
This article ended up making the state Senate look so bad that the Governor apparently unilaterally extended the "trial" of the speed cameras, so maybe progress is being made. It still tends to be widely opposed by those in power (police officers are the other loudest anti-advocates); people do not like perfect enforcement of laws that they can't weasel their way out of with "do you know who I am!?" It's unfortunate.
[+] [-] clay_the_ripper|7 years ago|reply
Yeah maybe we could reduce accidents by 0.1% or whatever. But you just know the damn thing will go on the fritz at some point or gps will be wrong and you’ll be going too slow somewhere else, or you’ll be a rush in an emergency and be unable to get where you’re going...plus (and this May be unpopular) that world just sounds boring and crappy. I don’t want my life controlled by the cloud.
[+] [-] X6S1x6Okd1st|7 years ago|reply
Many speed limits are unreasonably low.
Many stop signs should really be yield signs.
[+] [-] patcheudor|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dsfyu404ed|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xfitm3|7 years ago|reply
I think raising the barrier to get a driving license would be much more effective in reducing MVAs.
[+] [-] rootusrootus|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gwbas1c|7 years ago|reply
Judges throw certain speeding tickets out of court for being unreasonable. (Speed limit too low, fine too high.)
[+] [-] clairity|7 years ago|reply
many people want scooters (along with bikes and e-bikes). it fills an important missing middle between walking and driving. the better approach is to replace parking lanes on city roads with a grade-separated (from both regular roads and sidewalks) lane for these missing middle modes of transportation.
as for road safety, strict imposition of the kind of regulation noted in the article actually creates danger. the reason we have such powerful engines in our cars is to provide headroom to accelerate out of accidents (where braking out of them would be difficult or impossible).
i'd be all for much harder driving tests, where licensees show a mastery of control over the vehicle in difficult conditions, much like commercial pilots. i'd also support stricter enforcement of distracted driving laws (rather than speed enforcements). those would actually help reduce auto deaths.
[+] [-] teagee|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nraynaud|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lucasmullens|7 years ago|reply