The purpose of the Vitality program has almost nothing to do with the advertised improvements in health but act as a 'land grab' of healthy lives from other insurers. Its almost entirely to do with selection despite what they may advertise.
Established insurers that dont start their own incentive program to keep these healthy lives are in for a very rough time as Vitality will spread like a cancer.
An alternative solution is to buy enough of a policy or have a savings account to just cover funeral expenses and drop the life insurance extra payouts.
Bet John Hancock would hate that solution. I mean, once you've covered your expenses, everything else is just luxury and hubris.
A few insurance providers in the U.K. give out Apple whatches and gym memberships that need to be used for a “discount” the discount is them essentially not charging you the cost of these “gifts” not sure if they are collecting any data or not.
No. In fact, Hell no. I’m not wearing a fitness tracker so my life insurance company can keep tabs on me. That is utterly ridiculous. Give me a physical and charge me more if you have to, but none of this big brother stuff
You have not done your treadmill quota this week so we will up your premium.
Yup, sign me out as well.
Did somebody made an analysis of life costs in the USA vs Europe ?
I am in my thirties so the money I am making since I have moved here is pretty great (I also could have gotten higher paying jobs in Europe though) but it sure looks like a lot of factors are counterbalancing this, including the shameful health care system (or its absence really), so even if I was not already planning on moving somewhere else in a couple of years, this would make me consider it.
Many employers already require fitness goals and activities as part of the health insurance plans they offer. If you don't wish to participate, your premiums are much higher.
You can just not wear your band and not exercise and pay the increase in premium. It seems like the bands come regardless to drag the horse to the water. If you don't want to drink,
they won't compel you to. What's wrong with that?
It sounds like a voluntary discount at the moment--including some manual data entry--but after they make it tighter and more mandatory, I predict a new industry: gaming exercise programs.
At first, in order to spoof daily steps, maybe you can just throw the tracker into a clothes dryer or rock tumbler, or maybe inside your hubcap. If they want to see heartrate also, then I predict a device that you place against the tracker's IR sensor and blinks IR back at it, simulating a heartbeat. This would cost a few dollars in parts.
The next step of course is to simply spoof the tracker and upload directly to the company's internal API.
Well as all insurance companies do, when it comes for them to repay you (or in this case those you asked to be paid when you die), if the amount is big they’ll try to verify that you haven’t cheated.
That’s where it will be hard for your loved ones to find out that they’ll finally get nothing.
Same, I also just find them uncomfortable. When I run stairs I hold my phone in my left hand to track my time and laps, and my wallet in my right hand just for symmetry. I don't like strapping things to myself nor having one thing on the left but not right (and vice versa).
>"In theory, everybody wins, as policyholders are incentivized to adopt healthy habits and insurance companies collect more premiums and pay less in claims if customers live longer."
If someone is not incentivized to adopt healthier habits due to the benefits of actually being healthier or feeling better are they really going to by a "incentivized" by their life insurance premiums?
It's also laughable to think one could ever be "winning" when they have agreed to wear a corporate tracking device.
I am a senior software engineer with John Hancock. I can say with quite a bit of certainty that the Orwellian conspiracy is just paranoia. I can't tell you how many boring but necessary meetings I've sat through around what data we can cache on user's devices and ensuring we don't collect more geolocation data than necessary.
It's not just the project I'm on. It's a company attitude that it can't afford the problems that arise from bad data collection policies. My gut says this is sensational journalism.
JH offers two types of plans, Vitality Go and Vitality Plus. The latter offer these incentives, but apparently (I just spoke with a JH rep) cost $2 more per month.
This changes the math a bit, and makes it clear that the "free" incentives aren't actually free. You're just paying for them in a different way (especially if you don't hit the activity targets). Maybe you come out a little ahead if you hit all the targets, but not as far ahead as you think.
This isn't a new idea, Virgin Pulse has been providing a service just like this for companies to integrate into their health-insurance and benefit plans for years.
I knew that you could get a free Apple Watch Series 3 if you hit certain targets. I emailed to find out if they were going to have the same offers for Series 4, but have not gotten confirmation one way or the other. I just got an email saying "we couldn't find you in our customer database, so we can't help you".
I'd love to be one of their customers, if I can get a Series 4 out of it. Not just to have the watch, but also the incentive to stay active.
EDIT: this is my most downvoted comment ever, and I have no idea why. I assumed others reading this article might also wonder if their programs apply to the new Apple Watches. Apparently I was wrong?
I have not downvoted you but I am guessing that most people find the idea of giving up so much of your personal data in exchange for a shiny pebble silly at best.
[+] [-] safgasCVS|7 years ago|reply
Established insurers that dont start their own incentive program to keep these healthy lives are in for a very rough time as Vitality will spread like a cancer.
[+] [-] drivingmenuts|7 years ago|reply
Bet John Hancock would hate that solution. I mean, once you've covered your expenses, everything else is just luxury and hubris.
[+] [-] dogma1138|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Simulacra|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] on_and_off|7 years ago|reply
Yup, sign me out as well.
Did somebody made an analysis of life costs in the USA vs Europe ?
I am in my thirties so the money I am making since I have moved here is pretty great (I also could have gotten higher paying jobs in Europe though) but it sure looks like a lot of factors are counterbalancing this, including the shameful health care system (or its absence really), so even if I was not already planning on moving somewhere else in a couple of years, this would make me consider it.
[+] [-] tejaswiy|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bryan11|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sushid|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] imglorp|7 years ago|reply
At first, in order to spoof daily steps, maybe you can just throw the tracker into a clothes dryer or rock tumbler, or maybe inside your hubcap. If they want to see heartrate also, then I predict a device that you place against the tracker's IR sensor and blinks IR back at it, simulating a heartbeat. This would cost a few dollars in parts.
The next step of course is to simply spoof the tracker and upload directly to the company's internal API.
[+] [-] robertely|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomjen3|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JeanMarcS|7 years ago|reply
That’s where it will be hard for your loved ones to find out that they’ll finally get nothing.
This big brother stuff is outrageous by the way.
[+] [-] njarboe|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pmlnr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Broken_Hippo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MiddleEndian|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] navs|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bogomipz|7 years ago|reply
If someone is not incentivized to adopt healthier habits due to the benefits of actually being healthier or feeling better are they really going to by a "incentivized" by their life insurance premiums?
It's also laughable to think one could ever be "winning" when they have agreed to wear a corporate tracking device.
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] njarboe|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drharby|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iratewizard|7 years ago|reply
It's not just the project I'm on. It's a company attitude that it can't afford the problems that arise from bad data collection policies. My gut says this is sensational journalism.
[+] [-] gnicholas|7 years ago|reply
This changes the math a bit, and makes it clear that the "free" incentives aren't actually free. You're just paying for them in a different way (especially if you don't hit the activity targets). Maybe you come out a little ahead if you hit all the targets, but not as far ahead as you think.
[+] [-] mreome|7 years ago|reply
https://www.virginpulse.com/use-case/reduce-healthcare-costs...
[+] [-] Sujan|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] champagnepapi|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cushychicken|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bcoates|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] champagnepapi|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gnicholas|7 years ago|reply
I'd love to be one of their customers, if I can get a Series 4 out of it. Not just to have the watch, but also the incentive to stay active.
EDIT: this is my most downvoted comment ever, and I have no idea why. I assumed others reading this article might also wonder if their programs apply to the new Apple Watches. Apparently I was wrong?
[+] [-] on_and_off|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] privacypoller|7 years ago|reply