[bennyfreshness]

Just an anecdote of my personal experience, since there's generally a sense of uselessness for MBAs in tech and I held the same view until recently getting an MBA.

I was moving from engineering to product management and thought it would help my resume to get an MBA, but I was pleasantly surprised how useful in many other regards the process and learnings were.

For sure learning on your own, doing things, building product, is better than structured curriculum. But there's something to be said for being exposed to a broad set of business information. When heads down writing code and building businesses, it's hard to step out and learn this disparate knowledge unless you're forced to by wanting to graduate. Maybe you're more disciplined than I, but in my free time I wouldn't dabble in accounting for instance, just wasn't interested. The forcing function is surprisingly helpful.

I'm not claiming it's for everyone, but I got a ton out of my MBA and would recommend. My situation was moving from engineering to product, had full time PM job, trying to start a side business, which now has had significant growth that I attribute a lot to my learnings from the MBA.

[cosmie]

During my undergraduate program, I was a Teaching Assistant for a statistics department housed within a business school. The department was going through a re-branding from statistics and operations to "business analytics", and I got a lot of exposure to the inner workings of graduate education at the time.

Some students in our department were there for an MS in Statistics, others for a dual MS and MBA program. The single greatest indicator of whether or not an MBA was useless was whether the person was actively or passively choosing to get an MBA. About 70% of students were passively choosing to get a graduate degree. Either they had no idea what to do after their bachelors, they realized really quickly after their bachelors that what they thought was "adulthood" in college was not real and decided to run back to it, or they were following the trope of "bachelors -> 2-3 years in industry -> MBA -> ??? -> profit" with no idea of what "???" was except that they'd put in their 2-3 years already. For all of these students, they were passively choosing to get an MBA either to fill a checkbox or to avoid the alternative.

Then there were about 30% of students that actively chose to pursue an MBA. These students almost all had actual, real-world experience and actively chose to get an MBA because of specific needs or circumstances they had. In some cases it was to make a strategic career shift, in some cases it was to better orient themselves after making a career shift, in some cases it was to get over a ceiling in their industry where it was required to keep growing. But in all cases, if you asked them why they got an MBA, they could tell you without hesitation explicitly what prompted that decision, and the value they expected to derive from completing their MBA program (and why the MBA program was the right avenue for getting that value).

MBAs aren't useless. But a very sizable percentage of people graduate with them are useless[1], and would be equally as useless with or without the MBA. And the same holds true for most advanced degrees, from what I've seen.

[1] From the perspective of "hire a bunch of MBAs to solve problems". An incompetent worker without credentials is just as incompetent with credentials. And success in receiving an MBA from an academic environment does not denote success potential in applying the MBA in a business environment.

[datavirtue]

MBA is at best dangerous without real world operations experience. Business case studies and accounting are meaningful and a lot of fun once you have contributed to a business and have tried to run your own business or marketing effort. Jamming business training into somone who has never really analyzed an operation or contributed significantly is near futile...they just will not have anything to relate it to.

[zerkten]

> Then there were about 30% of students that actively chose to pursue an MBA. These students almost all had actual, real-world experience and actively chose to get an MBA because of specific needs or circumstances they had.

Coming from the UK my assumption was that MBA degrees were only open to those with some type of actual experience. That is based on my own research around 2002 where I found that Master's in Finance, Management, etc. were the only options for someone with limited real-world experience.

Is this a case where the entry requirements have shifted, or is this a regional thing? I went down the Master's path, but found an opportunity to come to the US on an H1B so I dropped out. I found what I've learned to be incredibly useful, but given how far I made it through I can't justify an MBA for reasons other than the credential or networking.

[platinium]

This is a great anecdotal argument -- I just want to note that it also applies very well, pretty much verbatim, to some other graduate school educations too, such as engineering or comp sci.

[opportune]

If those 2-3 years in industry were in management consulting or finance, then I wouldn't have put those people as the "no idea" group, that's a normal part of progressing within those industries if you've been promoted quickly

[scarface74]

I was moving from engineering to product management and thought it would help my resume to get an MBA, but I was pleasantly surprised how useful in many other regards the process and learnings were.

I went to graduate school to get an MBA from a decently, regionally respected program after one year working full time. I went the part time MBA route. I dropped out because of $reasons after almost finishing.

What I learned from my MBA didn’t have any immediate rewards during the early parts of my career as a software developer, but it really started helping a lot for more senior architect roles - “architect” by title or responsibility - and helped me talk to CxOs and punch above my titles.

I never put anything about graduate school on my resume.

The first time I thought about going back and either getting an MBA or MS in Comp. Sci, I realized that getting either wouldn’t get me an appreciable bump in salary over just self study in technology and aggressively job hopping in my local market.

In two years when things settle down and my youngest is in college and I could realistically think about doing it, it still wouldn’t make much financial sense. I’ll have the skillset, the resume, and the certifications along with my business knowledge to make more as an overpriced “implementation consultant” than I could with an MBA. Especially since I am not willing to move to any of the financial centers and I would basically have to slowly work my way up.

Most development managers are making much less than consultants in my market. Heck when I was a Dev lead, I was making less than ordinary software developer contractors that I hired.

[fma]

I'd be curious on your thoughts on this:

I have an undergrad in Computer Engineer, grad in EE from a big state university.

My employer is willing to pay for another Masters (nice perk...). I have 10 years working experience and work in Atlanta now - so I can do the Georgia Tech Executive MBA, or, their online Computer Science degree.

Assuming I have time (have a 2nd baby on the way so debatable)...and it's free. Is one more worthwhile than the other. And although the G. Tech online degree is available for free, the pressure of deadlines would actually ensure I complete the courses and not just watch a few hours and stop...like I've done already.

[autokad]

I am a Data Scientist w/ a MS in computer Science, but many of my CS classmates never become one despite desire to do so, while several of my MBA friends did so with ease (granted it is Wharton).

I think an MBA is more useful over a master in CS because many MBA's have great stats programs. In most CS programs you'd have to use up precious elective spots to take those. Also, business intelligence is a huge part of many ds roles. And if you really wanted to take that Machine Learning course in CS, just take it as an elective in your MBA.

I'd love to hear what others have to say on the topic

[wenc]

I am a data scientist who spent my early career doing lots of BI work before moving on to my current role (years ago). I don't have an MBA, only a quantitative Ph.D.

BI is more related to analytics than DS (broadly defined, DS deals with predictive, while BI deals with descriptive), and typically falls under the purview of data analysts. It also isn't really a prerequisite for DS work. Also, BI is a skill that is easily acquired in industry rather than in school.

I don't know if an MBA is necessarily more useful than a MSCS if you want to become a data scientist. On the hiring end, quantitative training is strongly preferred for true DS positions over qualitative. Given a pool of people with quantitative degrees vs MBAs, it is very likely the former will have an advantage.

The only exception is if the position isn't truly a DS one; many people advertise data analyst under a DS title to get a broader pool of candidates. It's common practice these days.

[huac]

I also am a data scientist, after attending Wharton. Understanding how businesses operate, both internally (which stakeholders are important to convince of a decision) and externally (what does the company need to do to succeed, big picture?) is really helpful for data scientists to drive impact.

[sushid]

Are you comparing CS undergrad + MBA to CS undergrad + CS masters?

I have a sibling working towards a business degree (concentration in statistics and DS) and looking to work as a SWE for a few years before going to grad school and working as a DS after getting a degree.

Would a stats focused MBA be more of a fit in your opinion vs a MS in CS?

[dman]

I think most criticisms I have seen of MBAs is not of the degree itself, but of the associated costs and the amount of debt the program leaves you with.

[johan_larson]

I've seems criticism of the idea that an MBA makes you ready to manage anything, without any particular domain knowledge.

The part I find unsatisfactory about MBA training is that it seems to be two degrees fused at the hip. Some people pursue one because they want to work in finance, whether as traders or analysts or some sort of deal-makers. Others pursue one because they want to be managers or executives in industry, running companies that are responsible for a wide variety of products or services. It seem like these two tracks should be disentangled.

[commandlinefan]

I wonder as well if it's not more valuable for somebody who's been in business for at least a few years and has some context to put the lessons into.

[bmpafa]

I run an MBA admissions site on the side and did some analysis on this.

tl;dr if you are confident an MBA can create a step increase in annual comp of even $10k, the cost is more than covered over the remainder of your career.

[brightball]

MBAs are great once you have real work experience in your field already. Duke’s MBA program won’t even admit you until you’ve been working for 10 years.

Without the experience, it’s a different perspective on the program.

EDIT: That was the Global Executive MBA program at Duke. Citation in comment.

[wenc]

From a career perspective, there's definitely a best-before date, after which an MBA does not buy you advancement. It seems that the optimal period for most people is after about 5-8 years of working experience.

Get your MBA too early, you come without practical perspectives.

Get it too late (once you reach senior management or about a decade of managerial experience), and you don't really need it anymore. Your real-life experiences have already exceeded what an MBA has to offer.

In most places, acquiring an MBA doesn't automatically lead to a pay increase or promotion. You still have to work for those. That said, an MBA may break some glass ceilings.

[Smirnoff]

Duke won’t admit without 10 years of experience? That’s a lie. Please cite sources because their admission stats beg to differ.

[sodafountan]

Your side business saw growth from what you learned from your MBA? Could you elaborate on that a bit more? What did you learn that you were able to apply to your business that lead to growth?

[tensor]

Can you give examples of things you learned that were useful? My own impression of the MBA is that it's more of a trade degree where you learn anecdotal "best practices" but little to no actual science. I don't put it in the same league as a science master's degree for that reason.

Maybe my impression is wrong though.

[bluedevil2k]

If you want to run a software company or lead a product, the things you learn in an MBA program are very worthwhile: how to measure clients' worth to a company, how to put together a cash flow statement, how to think like "marketing people", business applications of your product (e.g. I learned several new industries that would benefit from my product).

Outside of your specific job, one item I fall back on constantly is financial analysis. For example, you can say Tesla is a great company, if you learn how to read a cash flow statement and net income report you would see otherwise.

[matwood]

I went a bit of the opposite route. My undergrad was a BS in Computer Information Systems. Basically a CS degree where some classes like physics/high level math electives were replaced with business courses like stats, management, accounting, economics, etc... Later I went back to school and got my MS in Computer Science. I love doing the tech side of things, but I can say that almost without fail I have used business basics I learned (and continued to add to) every single day. I've debating doing an MBA because I enjoy the structure of school, but I just don't have the time right now.

One other non-obvious aspect of school I wished I had focused on more at the time was literature and writing. Communicating in a clear and concise manner becomes increasingly important the more senior you become.

[maxxxxx]

I think an MBA is great in addition to other training or you have some work experience. I think what most people object to is people who only have an MBA and immediately get into leadership roles. A leader should have some experience how things are on the bottom before they start to lead.

[gammateam]

Case Study education is extremely valuable and it is a shame that it is locked away in Ivy League curriculums.

It is valuable.

The opportunity cost (time, benefit, other opportunities) for people in tech is still too high. There becomes a time when it is worth it. The Executive MBA may be up people's alley, but even then the network itself is the most important.

For me, I ended up finding a cofounder who was a generation older than me, all of their connections have already done this stuff or floated to the top of the organizations they represent.

An MBA is not in the cards for me.

[ChrisCinelli]

This my experience with case study in business school:

It obviously depend on the case but, in general, the main advantage of a case study comes from making the learning experience more interactive and involving than the experience of solving a mere, abstract, exercise. It raises the interest like "based on a true story" does in movies.

You learn from a case, but you learn what the case author decided you should learn from it.

A real experience is a lot better. There are ton of pieces of data and things going on at once. Most of them are less relevant. Some situations look not very relevant but they are actually "the difference that make the difference." In a case for the sake of time, the author needs to focus only some aspects and write a plot around them.

[da02]

Can you provide some examples of how the MBA helped your business' growth? Was it accounting and statistics? Or development of product features via understanding customer needs?

(I don't have much experience with MBAs. So I'm always curious about the benefits.)

[BostonEnginerd]

Could I ask where you did your MBA? I’ve been going back and forth about getting it for a few years. Did you do a local school? Online?