Stuff like this is pretty common in the military. When I was stationed at Camp Lejeune NC, my wife worked as a reporter for a local paper. One of her assignments was interviewing people at a town hall style meeting regarding chemicals in the base water supply. Children of people that lived in base housing had an abnormally high cancer rate, but the military denied that any of the contaminated water was leaking into the drinking water.
I also remember the barracks I lived in had old asbestos floor tiles and the walls were covered in lead paint. They eventually renovated the barracks, and instead of getting rid of the lead paint, they just painted over it. The asbestos tiles weren't dealt with, and all they said was "just don't use a floor buffer and you'll be fine". There was also a cleaning station where we'd clean our rifles, no safety warnings or instructions were given, and we thought it was just a cleaning solution. Later we saw a warning sticker on it that said to use full eyes, face, and hand protection because the cleaning solution could cause neurological damage. Just waiting for health probelms to crop up once I'm older :/
Asbestos tile and roofing aren’t really a big hazard. Usually the risky stuff that is still around is insulation in ceiling plenum and in concrete walls in 50-70s buildings.
Government buildings are always suspect, as they often are exempt from many building codes, including fire codes.
Former Navy officer here. The "privatized" housing was a complete farce. There's a natural monopoly on military base housing and turning that over to a for-profit private company nearly guarantees they're going to cut costs at every opportunity.
We lived on base for a number of years but after a while it seemed like a scam to siphon the service members' entire housing allowance. Maintenance was horrible, conditions were horrible, there were waiting lists just to get into the housing, and heavy penalties if you broke your lease early with no opportunity to negotiate out, even if the wait list was a mile long.
We ended up renting houses near the base out in town that were much cheaper and not infested with mice and cockroaches. Most people I knew who thought living in base housing was convenient and cheaper came to the same conclusion.
This was my experience as well. Not to mention, when you do move out, they are extremely anal with inspections and make you pay for "damage" even if you can prove that it was there before you (pictures, etc).
And not to mention the weekly inspections. There was a sergeant that used to come around the neighborhood with a ruler, measuring people's grass to ensure it was within regulated length. A friend of mine got in trouble with the first sergeant for not cutting his lawn often enough.
Military bases are some of the most polluted sites in America. Lots of soil/groundwater contamination from BTEX and other poorly handled chemicals. However, Military bases provide a lot of research for remediation engineering.
Well there's your problem. Old houses have lead. It should be assumed to be that way unless there's reason to believe otherwise.
It'll be another 50+yr before most lead paint is gone. The fact of the matter is that labor is expensive in this country so lead paint is rarely dealt with unless it's conveniently within the scope of other work.
I don't think this article very meaningful unless we have more data points. Is base housing more or less likely to contain lead than similiar quality housing in other cities?
I find the revelation that the military has failed to notify state health agencies of lead poisoning as reqired by law and refused to take effective steps to prevent further poisoning after the issue was brought to their attention to be extremely meaningful and newsworthy. The cost to properly remediate lead poisoning hazards is far less than the societal costs of lead poisoning, including additional healthcare and education costs and lost future economic contributions from brain-damaged children.
Sure, but when you're talking about a military house inside a military base owned and maintained by the military you have to assume that the military bears some responsibility for it.
Just waving your hands and walking away because it's old is a bit short sighted.
So I’ll accept that lead pipes are not great but how bad is lead paint really?
Specifically, if you have lead paint underneath several layers of more modern titanium paint, what is the lead poisoning risk? I thought the more significant risk with lead paint was from paint flaking into dust, especially for painted iron which comes off as the iron rusts.
I see a few outdated comments here about the water at Camp Lejeune. In 2012, a law (Camp Lejeune Families Act) was passed to pay for medical care for servicemembers and their families who were affected by the water quality. Additionally, veterans who were stationed at Lejeune during that time now receive "presumptive service connection" for many ailments. This means they automatically receive disability pensions and medical care if they develop one of the ailments; they don't have to prove that they developed it as a result of the water exposure.
I've lived in buildings that were condemned a year before I was living in them. I was then moved out of it because they were reclassified as condemned. Less than a year later I was moved back into it because we ran short of living space. All of this while there were huge patches of black mold on walls, in vents, and on the bed mattress themselves.
The guidance we received was to bleach everything. I'm not sure if this was done because of ignorance or more nefarious reasons. We ultimately took note of the worse rooms and avoided using them when possible.
It almost always takes the local news agency breaking a story about these condemned barracks before anything is actually done. Usually they just condemn the building again and the cycle repeats.
This was located in GA where humidity is a problem and almost entirely impossible to combat.
If I was hard pressed, I do have pictures of rooms I've lived in with patches of mold on the walls.
I keep seeing reclaimed wood with pretty peeling white paint in high end places. Every time, I wonder if it's lead paint placed by a niave interior decorator.
Most reclaimed wood doesn't have any character so much of it is enhanced with faux aging treatments so they can charge more and have better uniformity.
I don't know how much dust it takes, one can google 'lead oxide MSDS' though. Occupational limits are 0.05mg/m3.
What I've read is lead is really bad for neurological development. Isn't as bad for adult men. Acute toxicity isn't that bad. LD50 > 10000 mg/kg ( Rat ).
Two problems with lead paint is, lead is an insidious poison. The body doesn't clear lead that well and it has a long half life. So small repeated exposures cause harm.
And small children will happily eat lead paint chips. Which is an issue since lead is a neurotoxin and impairs brain development at very low levels.
Canada considers blood lead levels of less < 10 µg/dL as "safe", however there were measurable differences in IQ in children with blood lead levels even below this level. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235210/
It appears to me that no level of lead exposure is truly safe.
The article is mostly wrong about breathing in the home. The dust gets on things and the things get eaten. The danger is the oral route. It's particularly likely for kids because lead tastes sweet.
[+] [-] dx87|7 years ago|reply
I also remember the barracks I lived in had old asbestos floor tiles and the walls were covered in lead paint. They eventually renovated the barracks, and instead of getting rid of the lead paint, they just painted over it. The asbestos tiles weren't dealt with, and all they said was "just don't use a floor buffer and you'll be fine". There was also a cleaning station where we'd clean our rifles, no safety warnings or instructions were given, and we thought it was just a cleaning solution. Later we saw a warning sticker on it that said to use full eyes, face, and hand protection because the cleaning solution could cause neurological damage. Just waiting for health probelms to crop up once I'm older :/
[+] [-] jfim|7 years ago|reply
This is actually one of the correct ways to deal with lead paint, assuming the "paint" is actually a proper encapsulant. See for example https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/lead/renovation_repa...
[+] [-] Spooky23|7 years ago|reply
Government buildings are always suspect, as they often are exempt from many building codes, including fire codes.
[+] [-] drblast|7 years ago|reply
We lived on base for a number of years but after a while it seemed like a scam to siphon the service members' entire housing allowance. Maintenance was horrible, conditions were horrible, there were waiting lists just to get into the housing, and heavy penalties if you broke your lease early with no opportunity to negotiate out, even if the wait list was a mile long.
We ended up renting houses near the base out in town that were much cheaper and not infested with mice and cockroaches. Most people I knew who thought living in base housing was convenient and cheaper came to the same conclusion.
[+] [-] freedomben|7 years ago|reply
And not to mention the weekly inspections. There was a sergeant that used to come around the neighborhood with a ruler, measuring people's grass to ensure it was within regulated length. A friend of mine got in trouble with the first sergeant for not cutting his lawn often enough.
[+] [-] prions|7 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_Superfund_si...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016770120...
[+] [-] sambull|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gaahrdner|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] village-idiot|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dsfyu404ed|7 years ago|reply
Well there's your problem. Old houses have lead. It should be assumed to be that way unless there's reason to believe otherwise.
It'll be another 50+yr before most lead paint is gone. The fact of the matter is that labor is expensive in this country so lead paint is rarely dealt with unless it's conveniently within the scope of other work.
I don't think this article very meaningful unless we have more data points. Is base housing more or less likely to contain lead than similiar quality housing in other cities?
[+] [-] istjohn|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] crunchlibrarian|7 years ago|reply
Just waving your hands and walking away because it's old is a bit short sighted.
[+] [-] mapcars|7 years ago|reply
It tells me that we have no idea how dangerous things we use/make are. Killing ourselves with a paint, that's a degenerate way to live.
[+] [-] ra1n85|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tyingq|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dan-robertson|7 years ago|reply
So I’ll accept that lead pipes are not great but how bad is lead paint really?
Specifically, if you have lead paint underneath several layers of more modern titanium paint, what is the lead poisoning risk? I thought the more significant risk with lead paint was from paint flaking into dust, especially for painted iron which comes off as the iron rusts.
[+] [-] ars|7 years ago|reply
Lead paint was more expensive (it was whiter), so buy an old house that was cheap for its time :)
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] hudibras|7 years ago|reply
[0]https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/camp-lejeune/index...
[+] [-] clumsysmurf|7 years ago|reply
https://www.propublica.org/article/military-pollution-open-b...
[+] [-] tachang|7 years ago|reply
Reuters says "Yet it also “discourages” this type of lead-paint inspection" at the link https://phc.amedd.army.mil/topics/workplacehealth/ih/Pages/L...
[+] [-] brohoolio|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Duladian|7 years ago|reply
I've lived in buildings that were condemned a year before I was living in them. I was then moved out of it because they were reclassified as condemned. Less than a year later I was moved back into it because we ran short of living space. All of this while there were huge patches of black mold on walls, in vents, and on the bed mattress themselves.
The guidance we received was to bleach everything. I'm not sure if this was done because of ignorance or more nefarious reasons. We ultimately took note of the worse rooms and avoided using them when possible.
It almost always takes the local news agency breaking a story about these condemned barracks before anything is actually done. Usually they just condemn the building again and the cycle repeats.
This was located in GA where humidity is a problem and almost entirely impossible to combat.
If I was hard pressed, I do have pictures of rooms I've lived in with patches of mold on the walls.
[+] [-] gwbas1c|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kevin_thibedeau|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hammock|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Gibbon1|7 years ago|reply
What I've read is lead is really bad for neurological development. Isn't as bad for adult men. Acute toxicity isn't that bad. LD50 > 10000 mg/kg ( Rat ).
Two problems with lead paint is, lead is an insidious poison. The body doesn't clear lead that well and it has a long half life. So small repeated exposures cause harm.
And small children will happily eat lead paint chips. Which is an issue since lead is a neurotoxin and impairs brain development at very low levels.
[+] [-] somebodythere|7 years ago|reply
It appears to me that no level of lead exposure is truly safe.
[+] [-] dgacmu|7 years ago|reply
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning
[+] [-] swayvil|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] colek42|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dqpb|7 years ago|reply