> When Sandberg, Facebook’s COO, was asked by U.S. lawmakers in early September if WhatsApp still used end-to-end encryption, she avoided a straight yes or no, saying, “We are strong believers in encryption.”
Wow. That's rather troubling.
EDIT: WhatsApp still claims to use end-to-end encryption. It was probably just a case of Sandberg not knowing the answer.
WhatsApp (and Instagram) itself was an acquisition via surreptitious data harvesting through Onavo - the free VPN app meant to "protect" users browsing data [0, 1].
> Facebook uses an internal database to track rivals, including young startups performing unusually well, people familiar with the system say. The database stems from Facebook’s 2013 acquisition of a Tel Aviv-based startup, Onavo, which had built an app that secures users’ privacy by routing their traffic through private servers. The app gives Facebook an unusually detailed look at what users collectively do on their phones, these people say. The tool shaped Facebook’s decision to buy WhatsApp and informed its live-video strategy, they say. Facebook used Onavo to build its early-bird tool that tips it off to promising services and that helped Facebook home in on Houseparty.
Apple has now forced Facebook to remove it from the App Store [2]. I'm not sure if data harvesting has stopped. It might have even increased.
Just pointlessly trying to exist way past its date of expiry.
Facebook reminds me of Edison pushing his DC power distribution model on everyone. Telling the world nothing else will work. Trying to get them to build an Edison Power station every second block. Coasting on momentum built and wasting everyone's time. Spending huge resources buying out/maligning/litigating the competition. But it all fails. Few people ever needed DC power distribution. At the end of that story Edison says after a series of humilations in public and finally loosing control of his company "I have come to the conclusion that I never did know anything about Electricity".
That moment for Mr.Zuckerberg is fast approaching.
I'm impressed by Acton and Koum. They built a $22bn company, scaled to hundreds of millions of users, became the dominant chat app in the world... all with a tiny team of engineers. Before Facebook acquisition, they were laser-focused on quality and infrastructure instead of gimmicks.
Maybe they made a mistake by selling, but I wouldn't have turned down total financial freedom for me and my family forever.
Whatever. I'll switch to Signal, and watch out for the next thing that these guys work on.
No doubt, A small team can sometimes accomplish amazing things when they don’t have oversight. It’s too bad that the quality will probably stay stagnate.
It would not be difficult to argue that the billions of dollars they got from WhatsApp has the potential to do so much more good in the world than hanging on to WhatsApp just to protect the data of the relatively well off.
Let's not kid ourselves. Illicit data collection is frustrating. But it isn't as bad as world hunger or mass diseases, human trafficking, or a myriad of other important issues.
If you get the chance, by all means, "sell out". Just use some of the money to help alleviate some suffering in this world.
Anyone dissing Acton for 'selling out' is the biggest hypocrite imaginable. You. Would. Too. And even afterward, he fought as long as he reasonably could to keep the promises offered by FB a reality. Once that became too much of a burden for him, he finally gave up and walked away. I think he put in a great fight.
I hope not to see any moral policing here for selling out.
Well, one of the things "FU money" allows you to say "fuck you" to in addition to bad employers are the moral police that pretend they wouldn't do the exact same thing in the same situation.
Start a commune, help solve world hunger, do what you like with your "ill-gotten" gains, but don't pretend you'd be so quick to walk away on principle alone.
>Hope not to see indifference caused by false equivalencies.
I'll try to come up with a 'close equivalence'.
>Person makes Billions of dollars by giving his organization to a questionable company. This includes the personal information of users, the social infrastructure, and employees.
I am a 10%er who saves literally $60,000 USD/yr, let alone my wife is a Dr. with her own income. I cannot see myself selling out for petty money. Money cannot buy happiness when you can buy almost everything you want.
My side projects look to profit as profit as a capitalistic indicator of beneficial change.
So I dont understand, what is this person going to do with the money? If you sell out, you better be doing significantly better things with that money.
All of this is IMO, life philosophy, and the culture around me.
I just don't get the narrative. I can appreciate walking away from, and not being part of, something you don't like. But at that point the damage was already done. Seemingly they main thing that was achieved here was making the cost of the acquisition $850M cheaper for Facebook.
I read the $850m being well after acquisition. It was an attempt at hush money, and he didn’t sign on. He’s a multi-billionaire, and values being able to speak opening over a bit more money.
Always strikes me as somewhat amusing - or not really - how someone like mr. Doctorow apparently feels a pressing need to publish under full live Google supervision, here in the guise of amp, fonts, and gstatic.
Take the money and get criticised on HN for taking the money [1]. Don't take the money and get criticised by different people on HN for not taking the money [2].
My thoughts too. Get the money, and do something useful with it. It was an expensive and still pretty meaningless gesture. Now, maybe he didn’t want to spend more time at FB and bought his freedom with that money. Perfectly fine, but please don’t spin it like some morally applaudable act.
Yup, you sold out, made billions, secured your life, then bit the hand that feeds you and then pretend to stand for something. Donate the entire pay off from Facebook to privacy groups and then I will listen to you.
I have a theory: I believe tweeting #deletefacebook was a firable offense and, upon being fired, he lost whatever vesting remained. He didnt knowingly do this. Almost every company has similar terms in place. I certainly wouldnt hand over another billion dollars to someone who did that my company after I paid him $15bn.
[+] [-] josho|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dang|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] titanomachy|7 years ago|reply
Wow. That's rather troubling.
EDIT: WhatsApp still claims to use end-to-end encryption. It was probably just a case of Sandberg not knowing the answer.
[+] [-] kiallmacinnes|7 years ago|reply
I've shared that link with my "Family" WhatsApp group (there's no chance I'm getting them onto something else though..)
[+] [-] denzil_correa|7 years ago|reply
> Facebook uses an internal database to track rivals, including young startups performing unusually well, people familiar with the system say. The database stems from Facebook’s 2013 acquisition of a Tel Aviv-based startup, Onavo, which had built an app that secures users’ privacy by routing their traffic through private servers. The app gives Facebook an unusually detailed look at what users collectively do on their phones, these people say. The tool shaped Facebook’s decision to buy WhatsApp and informed its live-video strategy, they say. Facebook used Onavo to build its early-bird tool that tips it off to promising services and that helped Facebook home in on Houseparty.
Apple has now forced Facebook to remove it from the App Store [2]. I'm not sure if data harvesting has stopped. It might have even increased.
[0] https://outline.com/tkzkVb
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14970877
[2] https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/22/17771298/facebook-onavo-p...
[+] [-] kopo|7 years ago|reply
Facebook reminds me of Edison pushing his DC power distribution model on everyone. Telling the world nothing else will work. Trying to get them to build an Edison Power station every second block. Coasting on momentum built and wasting everyone's time. Spending huge resources buying out/maligning/litigating the competition. But it all fails. Few people ever needed DC power distribution. At the end of that story Edison says after a series of humilations in public and finally loosing control of his company "I have come to the conclusion that I never did know anything about Electricity".
That moment for Mr.Zuckerberg is fast approaching.
[+] [-] titanomachy|7 years ago|reply
Maybe they made a mistake by selling, but I wouldn't have turned down total financial freedom for me and my family forever.
Whatever. I'll switch to Signal, and watch out for the next thing that these guys work on.
[+] [-] ThetaOneOne|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] antisocial|7 years ago|reply
Hope not to see indifference caused by false equivalencies.
False equivalencies suck out oxygen and leave no room for nuances or discussions.
I am encouraging my social network to switch from Whatsapp to Signal, but I'll go cold turkey whether they switch or not.
[+] [-] jjeaff|7 years ago|reply
Let's not kid ourselves. Illicit data collection is frustrating. But it isn't as bad as world hunger or mass diseases, human trafficking, or a myriad of other important issues.
If you get the chance, by all means, "sell out". Just use some of the money to help alleviate some suffering in this world.
[+] [-] degenerate|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikestew|7 years ago|reply
Well, one of the things "FU money" allows you to say "fuck you" to in addition to bad employers are the moral police that pretend they wouldn't do the exact same thing in the same situation.
Start a commune, help solve world hunger, do what you like with your "ill-gotten" gains, but don't pretend you'd be so quick to walk away on principle alone.
[+] [-] bogomipz|7 years ago|reply
Let's be clear, it's probably not that hard after you've already pocketed the first two billion.
[+] [-] phjesusthatguy3|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MrEfficiency|7 years ago|reply
I'll try to come up with a 'close equivalence'.
>Person makes Billions of dollars by giving his organization to a questionable company. This includes the personal information of users, the social infrastructure, and employees.
I am a 10%er who saves literally $60,000 USD/yr, let alone my wife is a Dr. with her own income. I cannot see myself selling out for petty money. Money cannot buy happiness when you can buy almost everything you want.
My side projects look to profit as profit as a capitalistic indicator of beneficial change.
So I dont understand, what is this person going to do with the money? If you sell out, you better be doing significantly better things with that money.
All of this is IMO, life philosophy, and the culture around me.
[+] [-] mhjas|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wepple|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] interfixus|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Preshy|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] fipple|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelt|7 years ago|reply
It's a tough life being a tech billionaire.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18173181 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18201177
[+] [-] auggierose|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] garryterm|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lefstathiou|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] warp_factor|7 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Acton
[+] [-] claydavisss|7 years ago|reply