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Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

338 points| kragniz | 7 years ago |sqlite.org | reply

281 comments

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[+] chippy|7 years ago|reply
Discussion on the sqlite-users mailing list:

http://sqlite.1065341.n5.nabble.com/Regarding-CoC-td104277.h...

From Richard:

"Yes. Clients were encouraging me to have a code of conduct. (Having a CoC seems to be a trendy thing nowadays.) So I looked around and came up with what you found, submitted the idea to the whole staff, and everybody approved."

[+] simias|7 years ago|reply
Leaving aside the religious aspect of the CoC which are probably going to be controversial the other rules are actually fairly common sense. A few that caught my eye:

> Do not give way to anger.

> Do not nurse a grudge.

> Do not entertain deceit in your heart.

> Do not give a false peace.

> Do not swear, for fear of perjuring yourself.

> Utter only truth from heart and mouth.

> Do not return evil for evil.

> Be not a grumbler.

> Be not a detractor.

> Hate no one.

> Be not jealous, nor harbor envy.

> Do not love quarreling.

> Shun arrogance.

> Respect your seniors.

> Love your juniors.

> Make peace with your adversary before the sun sets.

Good rules to live by IMO.

[+] SonOfThePlower|7 years ago|reply
Best CoC I have ever seen! I do not think that it is joke. From sqlite's source code:

The author disclaims copyright to this source code. In place of a legal notice, here is a blessing: May you do good and not evil. May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others. May you share freely, never taking more than you give.

[+] qbaqbaqba|7 years ago|reply
Was it sqlite that had a special clause allowing redhat users to use it for evil purposes?
[+] finnthehuman|7 years ago|reply
I am surprised at how dismissive and intolerant the comments here are of this code of conduct. And I say this as an atheist that still harbors a lot of resentment against my family's religion.

Do you have so little empathy that you can't possibly image someone adopting The Rule of St. Benedict in good faith (no pun intended)?

[+] Sprign|7 years ago|reply
I don't think that the problem is adopting in bad or good faith; personally I am saddened because the CoCs are meant to be there to protect people that are usually in a weaker position and in our development communities that usually identifies with a few categories: women, LGBT+, disabled people etc.

Now if you look at it from this point of view I think that you can at least see the irony of using a religious text in this context; to be more clear, quoting their webpage:

> This code of conduct has proven its mettle in thousands of diverse communities for over 1,500 years

Those "thousands of diverse communities" include the ones who were using their religion as a pretext to burn heretics/witches, torture homosexuals and in general oppress the weak and the diverse as well as the ones that today are still trying to infuse young people with their toxic shame when they are non-conforming.

This is what really grinds my gears: some people would do anything to NOT take responsibility and hide themselves behind nice words with little to no real content.

[+] stephenr|7 years ago|reply
> so little empathy that you can't possibly image someone adopting The Rule of St. Benedict in good faith

I think it's more that the wording suggests the author pushing his own faith onto others.

[+] DanielBMarkham|7 years ago|reply
Agnostic here.

Sure, why not? Group codes of conduct are a form of mutually-enforced morality. Why not pick up a template that seems to have worked in the past and reuse parts of it?

It all won't fit, of course, but why re-invent the wheel? I'm really much more interested in the track record of how various of these items worked out (or not) than I am in impeaching the source. Who cares about that stuff?

[+] mikeash|7 years ago|reply
Can I imagine it? Sure. Can i accept it? Hell no.

I can imagine someone adopting in good faith a code of conduct that says “no colored people.” That doesn’t mean I’ll be happy about it.

[+] stupidbird|7 years ago|reply
This says more of "we're lazy and don't actually care to do this seriously" more than it says anything in good faith.
[+] O2F2|7 years ago|reply
Yes, it's meant as a joking stab at those who seemingly cannot live without having a CoC everywhere. Especially in projects they do not actually participate in. Now watch as this gets blown out of proportion, because this will make some people really, really angry. Id be very surprised if this stays up actually.
[+] caiocaiocaio|7 years ago|reply
I don't think so. The CoC prohibits joking in clause 54.
[+] joshberkus|7 years ago|reply
It's not a joke. Dr. Hipp is a genuinely religious person, and he means this seriously.
[+] drb91|7 years ago|reply
As an atheist, how could this possibly make someone mad?
[+] mikeash|7 years ago|reply
Religious discrimination isn’t ok and being annoyed by it isn’t blowing things out of proportion.
[+] stephenr|7 years ago|reply
Given that the lead of the SQLite project's personal website has references to an organisation that translates religious Scripture, I'm not sure it really is a "joking stab".

> this will make some people really, really angry

Suggesting that a text written by Christians is a good basis for an OSS project's CoC, when Christianity has a pretty fucking horrific track record when it comes to most of the people who, without Codes of Conduct are pushed out of or never welcome in OSS projects, and you're surprised that people might be angry?

[+] runjake|7 years ago|reply
Right in the first section, people:

"However, those who wish to participate in the SQLite community, either by commenting on the public mailing lists or by contributing patches or suggestions or in any other way, are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that honors the overarching spirit of the rule, even if they disagree with specific details. Polite and professional discussion is always welcomed, from anyone."

Edit: I am not religious at all.

[+] vor_|7 years ago|reply
If the religious details won't be enforced, there's no reason for them to be in the CoC. This CoC exists in its current form solely because Richard Hipp is very religious.
[+] mrweasel|7 years ago|reply
People seem to be upset about the religious parts of the code of conduct, just read the overview, it's in no way intended to force religion onto people.

If the religious bits was to be deleted, it would be hard for anyone to disagree.

I see it as no less good or bad than any other code of conduct I've seen. Most of them could be used to throw anyone out of any project, if you chose to do so. The code of conducts for a lot of projects are so selectively enforced that is ridiculous.

[+] caiocaiocaio|7 years ago|reply
Leaving aside everything else, using the rule of St. Benedict and pointing out its influence on medieval thought seems like poor choice. Benedictine monasteries were often notoriously corrupt. There were frequent attempts at Benedictine reform, but it was almost always that case that in a few decades, the reformers would become more corrupt than those they were initially criticizing.

And, of course, is medieval government actually something to aspire to? Medieval European governments were extremely unstable, collapsed frequently (often due to assassination), rarely went a decade without civil war/armed rebellion, their legal systems were patchy and inconsistent, and almost all of them had laws which separated punishments for commoners and noble-born. The fact that medieval law was influenced by the Benedictine rule seems like a reason to reject it.

[+] thrower123|7 years ago|reply
I do get a little joy on my monday morning that there are still people out there doing good work who can just tell people in a pig's eye when they are pressured to do stupid things.
[+] mikl|7 years ago|reply
An interesting mirroring of the popular CoCs these days. While they enshrine what one could call "San Francisco Democrat" values, this CoC enshrines christian conservative values.

If you think value-based CoCs are fine, you shouldn't have a problem with this.

[+] joshberkus|7 years ago|reply
They're certainly Christian values, but they're not "conservative", at least not by the American definition. I'll point you to these tenets:

* Relieve the poor. * Clothe the naked. * Visit the sick.

... those seem like "liberal values" to me, at least on the American spectrum.

[+] archagon|7 years ago|reply
If you are equivocating this CoC to Republican conservative values, you are laughably wrong.
[+] drngdds|7 years ago|reply
Because I'm not a complete moral relativist, I think there is a difference between good values and bad values
[+] stupidbird|7 years ago|reply
Of course value-based CoCs are fine. The problem with this isn't the content, it's the fact that they're using the content because they fundamentally disagree with codes of conduct.
[+] drb91|7 years ago|reply
What values are you referring to?
[+] roguecoder|7 years ago|reply
By "San Francisco Democrat" do you mean "gay people exist and are fine"? Or "women are an equal part of society"? I'm having trouble unraveling your dogwhistle here.
[+] idoubtit|7 years ago|reply
I don't understand the purpose of this. I hope it's an elaborate joke, but it is surprisingly unprofessional.

A few years ago I spent some time in their dev mailing list and proposed a patch. I doubt I'd still do this in this context. This code of conduct that requires members to honor th Christ, even as a joke, would make me reluctant to interact with SQLite.

[+] chippy|7 years ago|reply
> This code of conduct that requires members to honor Christ

Does it? It says that it requires developers to conduct themselves in a manner that honors the overarching spirit of the rule.

[+] lsd5you|7 years ago|reply
Yes, but when did professionalism become a requirement for open source software?
[+] HarryHirsch|7 years ago|reply
requires members to honor the Christ

The text does not permit this interpretation.

[+] stupidbird|7 years ago|reply
Having a code of conduct isn't about creating rules, it's about making a public commitment to enforce them.

Now that they've shown us that they clearly don't care about a code of conduct, I wouldn't trust them to ever handle any actual conduct issues in a reasonable way. Maybe they'd just send me a joke instead.

[+] apexalpha|7 years ago|reply
> Speak no useless words or words that move to laughter.

Aww here goes my entire social coping strategy.

That being said: this is a stab at Linux CoC? I can see the humour in it but... Seems unprofessonal for a project as SQLite?

[+] yakshaving_jgt|7 years ago|reply
> 39. Be not a grumbler.

Oh dear. That's basically all of us.

[+] kingofhdds|7 years ago|reply
Awesome. It's the first CoC for a FOSS project which sets the plank for good behaviour high enough!
[+] gonvaled|7 years ago|reply
Great! I can't wait for another project adopting an Islamic CoC (not to be enforced!), and read the comments.
[+] LawnDart1|7 years ago|reply
First, I never knew SQLLite was quite so religious,

Second 69. Love your juniors. Really? Won't HR get involved?

[+] AndriyKunitsyn|7 years ago|reply
Fascinating! Some folks really need a reminder of what "inclusiveness" means.
[+] sacado2|7 years ago|reply
Are there any studies proving the effectiveness of CoCs ? Like, more active contributors, or a bigger market share, on projects after they adopted their CoC?
[+] bluetomcat|7 years ago|reply
The ultimate CoC to put an end to this silly practice.
[+] rbanffy|7 years ago|reply
I had to read this as an elaborate joke around such codes. It'd be certainly amusing to see people trying to be in compliance.
[+] catawbasam|7 years ago|reply
Why? Seems to me more likely a sincere attempt to communicate the author's own code of conduct, and the spirit in which he has offered sqlite to his neighbors.
[+] manicdee|7 years ago|reply
What makes you think people being respectful to each other would be amusing?