[munchhausen]

Thank you for posting this article. It gave me pause for thought.

I have been taking a green tea supplement occasionally. I saw it in a vitamin store, and bought it because of the supposed benefits of antioxidants. I figured - I have a stressful job, I live in a polluted city and do drink alcohol - I probably need the antioxidants. Plus, something that's made out of green tea sounds safe, not likely do any harm, right?

Well. I am disposing of the supplement, obviously. More to the point, though, I have to revisit my whole thinking process around supplements. I take a bunch of them, and it's purely on the basis of "I read a study somewhere or other that this is supposed to be good for you" - and not because I have a specific health concern that I need to address.

This approach suddenly does not seem so sane anymore, and I need to take a step back and rethink what I am doing here.

It's amazing how easy it is to gradually lose touch with your common sense, simply because you read the "right" subreddits (in this particular case, /r/nootropics), and start to subscribe to the hype.

[Tor3]

The general rule is: You don't need supplements. Period.

That's because supplements provide (or are supposed to provide) trace elements that you need, but you only need a little bit of it. Like minerals and certain vitamins etc. The thing is - you basically need the same (trace) amount of it, whatever your lifestyle is. And you get it through eating a normal varied diet (e.g. a little meat, vegetables, some fish and seafood when you can, some (unprocessed) grains). So when do you not get enough of it? When you don't eat much food, or not enough of certain kinds of foods. Say, if you are a vegan with a sedentary life style. You're simply not getting enough of the trace elements through the restricted type of food you eat. If you're an athlete and you're also a vegetarian then you don't actually need food supplements at all - you're eating a lot of food due to the energy requirements and you'll get enough of it. Think Roman gladiator - they were vegetarians. No supplements needed.

For some reason a lot of people think that you need supplements if you excercise a lot, while it's in reality the other way around.

[tallanvor]

No, the general rule is: Talk to your doctor if you're wondering if you should be taking supplements.

Your generalization potentially puts people in harms way.

A varied diet is not always enough - some vitamins and minerals affect how others are absorbed and whether or not they are available to your body. And heavy exercise can cause deficiencies if your diet doesn't contain enough of the substances that you lose while sweating, even if you do eat enough to maintain your weight and muscle mass.

I've experienced this personally. There was a time in my life where I was exercising significantly more than the average person, although obviously not as much as a professional athlete. Even though I ate enough to maintain my weight, and had a fairly varied diet, I still ended up with an iron deficiency that was almost dangerously low, and this was only caught when I had some blood tests done to help rule out causes for my sleep issues.

Most supplements aren't needed, but vitamins and minerals such as B12, D, calcium, and iron (and others, although most of those are less frequent and can take much less time to build up the necessary quantities in the body) can end up at problematic levels even when you think you're doing everything right.

[raverbashing]

Oh yes, if only people ate a perfectly balanced diet and had time and resources to know how to get the exact quantity of every ingredient.

Saying "you don't need supplements" is naive idealism.

And here's the catch, "healthy people don't need supplements" but how many people are taking multivitamins and hence supplementing a dietary deficiency?

"Don't take vitamin D" until you have an issue and then have to go to the doctor?

> Think Roman gladiator - they were vegetarians. No supplements needed.

Suuuuure. Did you do a blood test on them? I'm not so sure the lion's diet was balanced in the end though.

[saiya-jin]

There are tons of edge cases where taking some supplements are much better than not taking them. Your argument about some gladiator is a laughable one - who knows what they ate 2000 years ago, what their actual health was? They needed to fight and often die, nobody cared if they have a healthy retirement.

I personally take multivitamin supplements, but the key to me is moderation - half a tablet on workout day, which has all the vitamins in 50% daily dose, and range of minerals of 15% daily dose, drank with lunch. No crazy doses of something specific. It helps with regeneration of muscles, joints and whatnot. Actually, my teeth got measurably harder according to my dentist after I started this regime.

The thing is, I work out these days 5x pretty hard during work week (weights, various running/cardio/intervals), mostly 1x climbing session on the evening, and 1-2 multihour hikes with 5-15kg backpack over weekend (or something similar). Those advices of daily dosages are for people smaller than me (188cm, 93kg), doing fraction of exercises compared to me. Could I do all of this without any supplement? Of course. But so far I haven't heard any solid reason why, because it measurably helps in many aspects of my health and wellbeing.

[bald]

Long-time swimmer here. Without extra magnesium, I will get spasms in my legs from time to time while exercising. With extra magnesium, I don't.

[Broken_Hippo]

" So when do you not get enough of it? When you don't eat much food, or not enough of certain kinds of foods."

The exception to this is Vitamin D... if you live in certain areas of the world. In general, the closer you live to the equator, the less you'll need this supplement during the winter. I wound up with a low level last winter - enough to go to the doctor for testing. My other nutrients were just fine: I'm mostly vegetarian and eat fish about once a week.

I have to take the supplements from September through May. The other months I have the choice to take them. If I do not take them, I'm supposed to be outside for at least 15 minutes daily with exposed skin. Minimally short sleeves. I still take the supplements because I wear long sleeves for a good amount of summer.

This is the only supplement I see generally recommended here (Norway) simply because the way the sunlight is in winter.

[vlan0]

>Say, if you are a vegan with a sedentary life style. You're simply not getting enough of the trace elements through the restricted type of food you eat.

I'm unsure what the sedentary life style has to due with not getting adequate nutrition. A balanced vegan diet generally will easily cover all your bases. The only worry is B12, and even that is easily overcome with fortified milk alternatives.

Just look at Jon's food plans for example. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE-LXXVl3u9yJO3WRGTrEoA

Hell, I eat a plant based diet, live a fairly sedentary life style while maintaining a balanced diet, and my full panel blood work taken at six month intervals comes back with no issues.

[baccheion]

You don't need anything... if lab results suggest nutrients and hormones are all in range.

[C1sc0cat]

Last year I was in a hospital renal unit and the guy next to me had had total kidney shutdown from taking to much Zinc - Interaction with other meds they thought.

[Amygaz]

How do you, or actually how does the OP knows that it is the green tea part of the supplement, and not everything else not otherwise on the labeled that is killing is liver.

The green tea industry is massive user of pesticide, herbicides, fungicide. Extraction process can be sketchy too using re-used solvents. Water in the process can also be contaminated.

“The content of this bottle may differ from its label.”

[neuralRiot]

Always get your nutrients/ antioxidants/ vitamins from its natural form, if you want the benefits of green tea then drink green tea that way you'll get all the benefits from it (water intake, refreshing and such) and will never risk overdose.

[edoloughlin]

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/more-trouble-for-antioxidan...

Growing evidence that antioxidants are not good for your immune system.

[baccheion]

NutrEval, a comprehensive hormone panel, a thyroid panel, and genetic testing. Keeping everything in the preferred range (for a 25 year old; can get more involved as time goes by) may be a better approach.

Iodine protocol. MSM lotion.