[jschuur]

If I read the article correctly, this wasn't about building a new 'Google campus' (i.e. a huge building to house a large number of Google employees as their main regional HQ). This was about building Campus Berlin, an incubator for startups like they pioneered first in London and then brought to other cities.

See https://www.campus.co/berlin/de and https://www.campus.co/london/en.

It's easy to misunderstand this because of what the term 'campus' is typically associated with. I live in London, and when I say 'I'm going to Google's Campus', I often need to qualify that I'm not going to their main office complex at King's Cross.

There may still be very valid reasons to protest Google in Berlin, but I wonder if the people objecting understood the distinction: that this wasn't a hub for all of Google's employees, but rather a place that would help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources.

The kind of smaller startups that would be home at a Campus style incubator would not be fueling high paid Google salaries and would be a lot less likely to drive up rents e.g..

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources.

Another way of looking at that, is "gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists". It's not new (1)

I don't necessarily agree with that framing, but it is understandable and coherent, not a misunderstanding

1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18282143

[pteredactyl]

The mutual exclusivity is naive at best.

To me, it shows haters' level of intellect. And perhaps explains why they feel left out. They're attached to an ideal of what 'art' (additionally, activism[1]) should be. An outdated, 20th century one.

I personally don't like Google. And I understand your framing is hypothetical.

But why is tech framed the opposite of art?

Why is tech equal to techbro?

Yea there are always bad apples. But I wonder what Da Vinci would think about holding art in the opposite category as tech?

I'd argue they're more synonymous than opposite. To me, there's creativity. Both art and tech are creative. Applied creativity pertains to both code or a paint canvas.

Either way, the best, most valuable work to society is often never been done before.

Can anyone name an art piece (or if I'm being generous, an art movement) in the last 15 years that's made the level of impact as Google? Or cryptocurrency?

Ultimately, to me, the 'artists' need to up their game. Big time.

[1] Protest city hall if you feel gentrified. Especially in SF where it's largely illegal to build housing. Also, regarding gentrification, you don't hear the positive stories of immigrant families whose businesses flourish because of increased capital in an area, or those who feel safer, or even those who cashed out and sold their 50k house for 1.2 million. Again you hear a largely misdirected, dated and one-sided argument.

[Xylakant]

The building was originally renovated by ID Media, one of the largest digital media/web development companies in Berlin at the end of the nineties. It’s been filled with IT companies ever since they went bankrupt and currently has an incubator as one of the renters. It’s never been full of artists for the last 20 years.

So while I’m not surprised (and very much not sad) that the plans didn’t work out for a host of reasons I really don’t think that the campus would have led to substantial gentrification in that region.

Disclosure: we (still) have our office in the complex.

[marcell]

Since when is a bunch of nerds “techbros”? I really hate this term. If I like programming and computers and databases, am I a techbro? Is this supposed to be a bad thing?

[malvosenior]

What makes "artists" better to live around than "techbros"? Having lived in my fair share of neighborhoods inhabited by both, I can say neither is better/worse than the other.

It's basically the difference to people living off their parent's money (artists) vs. people living off money they make themselves (tech workers).

[sonnyblarney]

"gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists"

Or bring very high paying jobs that Germany desperately needs, and allow great students to actually do something with their education, which would in turn enable a poor neighbourhood to thrive with ancilliary businesses, restaurants, taxis etc. etc..

[tomjen3]

If you can replace techbros with $MINORITY and the artists with white people, you can see why I have no sympathy for that argument, or the people who put it forth.

[aesh2Xa1]

The article lists that reason (gentrification) explicitly. The only other one given in there is that Google is evil (data collection, tax evasion, etc.). Someone else pointed out that the type of hosted campus would not lead to the same gentrification when the startups don't offer high salaries, but I think the point is still valid. At least, I do not know of another Google campus where this was not the case... I could be wrong.

As an aside, I dislike the term "techbro." It's obviously pejorative and I hardly ever see anything kind used to describe men working in the IT/CS sector. Just that and "neckbeard."

[dao-]

> There may still be very valid reasons to protest Google in Berlin, but I wonder if the people objecting understood the distinction:

Very much so. Been to a panel discussion organized by them.

The fear was that the incubator would accelerate gentrification. Doesn't matter whether the pay checks come from Google at the end of the day.

[badpun]

> The fear was that the incubator would accelerate gentrification.

Sort of understood, given that Germans are a nation of life-long renters (as opposed to home-owners). Gentrification is generally great for the owner and terrible for the renter.

[juloi]

The distinction between campus vs. incubator is within the current gentrification discussion in Berlin probably not too important.

They main issue to tackle for the Berlin government—from my point of view—is to find the right balance of luxury and affordable housing. People making above average salaries in the growing tech scene should/would pay the higher prices for luxury properties, while the art and counter culture scene would not need to be gentrified if there was a higher supply of affordable housing.

As a Berliner for the past 5 years, I really believe that most the unique vibe of the city comes from the art and left-oriented community here. A lot of us working in the tech world support it, enjoy it and even adapt to their ways (while keeping quiet about how much more money we earn). I really hope that the government makes an effort on affordable housing to keep the balance that makes the city special.

[lkrubner]

I think everyone, myself included, who loved Berlin up till (roughly) 2012 is horrified by the sudden increase in rents that has occurred since the tech industry started moving to Berlin. In 2010 I stayed with a friend who was renting a beautiful 2 bedroom apartment in Neukoln for 550 euros a month. That was common back then. 8 years later, it is impossible to find that kind of rent. The city was much more pleasant before the tech industry showed up.

[DanielleMolloy]

> There may still be very valid reasons to protest Google in Berlin, but I wonder if the people objecting understood the distinction: that this wasn't a hub for all of Google's employees, but rather a place that would help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources.

From what I know about the protest - reading public statements, how the protests began, how they now publicly celebrate their 'victory', and from having seen their early campaign websites - they almost certainly had no idea what a Google Campus is about. At some point certain parts of the campaign learned, but many never left the black & white painting behind for a more nuanced assessment.

What they are publicly exhibiting as "creative street art" may be very telling about their capability for nuance: https://fuckoffgoogle.de/2018/04/17/street-art-against-googl...

There is lots of criticism in Germany right now about these protests having chased away a startup campus.

[bartman]

This could have been a big factor.

I live in Berlin and have not followed this topic closely, and only heard about this not being a typical Google office days ago when Google changed plans. The talk on the street over the last months was always centered on Google wanting to create a big office and the residents not wanting any big corporations there.

[cyphunk]

This could be how the message was advertised by some but most people i met from the protestors understood googles plans were at least recently rather moderated. They all understood google was a symbolic target for a bigger problem.

[hknd]

Yes, this is so sad. I know so many start-up founders in London who spend nearly every day at the campus in London.

It's a free workspace with a lot of benefits, like wifi, cheap snacks/drinks and meeting other founders for kx.

[eropple]

How many of them lived and worked there before that? How many of them are making the community around them better for this? Look, I work for startups, I'm not remotely out of this myself, but most startups create net-negative externalities on the places around them (I'd say that most create net-negative externalities societally, and I refuse to work for those, but that's a different kettle of fish.) It isn't "sad" that a countercultural and art-focused area doesn't want techbros milquetoasting the community and causing CoL spikes--even if that means they don't want me around, either.

[mrzool]

Poor start-up founders! No wifi and cheap snacks for them. Instead, those spaces will be given to a non-profit donation platform and to an organization that supports children and young people in need.

This is incredibly sad :(

[seanhunter]

The tech ecosystem in Berlin is pretty diverse. It doesn't need an SV firm to come in to do that or to give access to facilities and other resources.

[DanielleMolloy]

By 'diverse' you mean dozens of embarrassing Rocket Internet copycats...?

This sort of arrogance is so typical for Germany.

[megaman8]

at the end of the day, what matters is the supply of jobs vs the supply of places to live. And if there's already too many jobs to residential areas, then I think it's quite responsible of them to say no to more jobs. It's better to put those jobs in areas that have enough housing. the bay area was not so smart and look where it got us.

[sonnyblarney]

"already too many jobs" this is really never the case.

[mrzool]

People around here understood what this was about very well. It was not a misunderstanding.

[joering2]

I don’t care what it is! Nothing good ever came out product-wise from Google other than search engine. Let Google search, period!

You can argue that we have second most popular operating system thanks to Google but you can’t argue that have not Google someone else would have filled in the void. And now that despicable news came out about Android founder and how Google covered for him, its akward looking at friends devices thinking to yourself: this has been invented by a total creep with a dream of slavery times being back so he can own people. Disgusting! I mean imagine if it came out that Jobs was a big fan of Hitler or enjoyed fantasizing about mass-blanket genocide! Would you still buy Apple products? And then there is that PR spin that it was fun kinky game of two. No it wasnt as she barely knew him! If I email 7 billion individuals with plan to own them and lease them, how many will come back defending me that it was okay because it was “only a kinky game.”

I applaud Germans for not being gullable when it comes to Internet. Germany amongst all European Union nations have the most strict rules and regulations protecting citizens first and foremost, not foreign entities that pay squad of taxes within German borders. Even on email protection alone you cannot email someone without double optins. We need similar protection laws in USA and Google needs to stick to search!