There's an interesting link to an analysis an (unaffiliated?) economist that suggests the study's methodology is flawed, in that it doesn't properly account for the simultaneous drop in gasoline prices (known to increase driving and therefore traffic deaths) as well as being unable to explain rises in death rates in both urban and rural areas (because Uber/Lyft are primarily urban)
Every time you see a claim like “study links X to Y” or “X is correlated with Y”, you should always always always remember that there are three possibilities: X causes Y, Y causes X, or some third factor Z causes both X and Y. I can’t understate the importance of thinking this way and not jumping to unwarranted conclusions. You should also exercise your imagination by trying to imagine why each of these three possibilities might hold.
Edit: There's also the possibility of spurious correlations, as mentioned in the comments below.
In my state, the phenomenon of attempting to drive while looking at and manipulating one's phone is absolutely epidemic. When a light turns green, the cars in front often don't move and the cars behind them often don't honk because they're engaged with their smartphones too. It's particularly disturbing when you're on a 50mph road with one lane in each direction and you pass a car by a few feet going the other way at a closing speed of 100mph and all you see is the other driver's eyelids and the top of their head.
The article mentions a 3% increase in deaths since 2011 despite cars getting safer, but 2011 correlates to the start of the total ubiquity of the smartphone as well.
On the other hand, I've had some very sketchy Uber/Lyft rides involving extremely late lane changes, almost missing turns/offramps and trying to dive in at the last second. The combination of often younger people who might end up driving for Uber/Lyft, often driving unfamiliar routes, relying on the instructions provided by a phone attached four feet away, while engaged in a conversation with passengers, is probably generally not as safe as you driving yourself along a familiar route.
But it would be quite a feat of analysis if anybody were able to disentangle the effect of Uber/Lyft from other changes since 2011.
I've had a lot of conversations with drivers that make me cringe. I've had a few tell me about how they've been away from home driving for 24-48 hours, sleeping in the car for a few hours at a time here and there. This article doesn't seem to mention this as a factor but I wouldn't be surprised if Uber/Lyft driver fatigue explains part of this study's findings.
My understanding is that the taxi medallion system originally came to be because there was too much competition in the taxi business, leading to corners being cut (e.g. maintenance) and overcrowding by taxis in certain places. Maybe we're learning this lesson again? This level of competition has brought a lot of convenience and comfort improvements over taxis. But from a big picture point of view, I'm not sure that this level of competition is a good thing. I almost wish Uber/Lyft were more expensive (and that money went to drivers). I'd use them less, but I'd be happier about using it when I did.
My impression is that the maintenance burden gets pushed onto drivers and they may not fully understand how to factor that cost into their income. However, there are new incentives to keep the cars well maintained, such as the ability of riders to rate the experience and leave comments, as well as the fact that these cars are also the driver's personal transportation.
The dynamic pricing and monitoring of supply and demand help avoid overcompetition, but that assumes that drivers really won't drive if they are losing money. I wonder if there's app functionality for the driver to plug in their fuel economy/depreciation to show what their actual profit is...
> almost wish Uber/Lyft were more expensive (and that money went to drivers). I'd use them less, but I'd be happier about using it when I did.
You can do this already using the tips on both platforms, which go entirely to the driver. Unless your wish is that it were more expensive on a macro level.
Yes I'm pretty sure corners are being cut on maintenance. Many of Lyft cars I've ridden in lately were displaying a warning on the dashboard about an overdue service interval or some sort of failure (check engine, ABS, TPMS, etc). Of course that's just my personal observation but I've ridden in enough to be confident that it's a real issue.
IMO society can solve cutting corners by bringing regulations and more competition, not less (more competition means service becomes a criteria when choosing).
In fact, I'd want those regulations regardless of uber/lyft/taxis. If individuals can lower road safety by cutting corners, that should be regulated, including lack of sleep.
The rating system seems like a much better answer than the Medallion system.
Every passenger (should be) effectively voting on the safety of the driver. No turn signals or engine light on? Subtract a few stars. If they violate a traffic law, 1 star and report for safety violation.
This can’t be a surprise to anyone. I frequently have a driver who is obviously different than the one pictured in the app. Some of the drivers I get have been in the country for a matter of weeks or even days, leaving me to wonder how Lyft or Uber verified their ability to drive to sufficient standards—I’m guessing they do virtually nothing beyond confirming the name matches a valid driver’s license.
> I frequently have a driver who is obviously different than the one pictured in the app.
Do you continue the ride? Do you inform the company?
> Talk about an industry that needs regulation!
I infer that you use Uber/Lyft/etc despite your concerns. Why not instead vote with your wallet, and use one of those nice, government-regulated taxicabs?
> I frequently have a driver who is obviously different than the one pictured in the app
Really? I've taken more than 1000 rides on both platforms combined and this has not happened to me once.
> Some of the drivers I get have been in the country for a matter of weeks or even days
How exactly are you inferring this information? I've never had a driver tell me this. Some of them have thick accents, sure, but so do some of my engineering co-workers who have been in the country for years.
I no longer use Uber or Lyft because I’ve had more rides with drivers who I would consider to be a “dangerous driver” than those I consider safe.
Many times the driver is in too big a rush to get their next fare, and they drive erratically and over the speed limit whilst using their phone. I even had a driver whose breath smelt like he’d been drinking. I just don’t feel safe, and I don’t think these companies regulate or check how safe their drivers are driving. I wonder whether there could be something in their driver app that monitors the speed or safety of the driver when they have a passenger in the car. I know that some insurance companies have apps like these.
I've not ever used Uber (Lyft isn't in my country I don't think) but I have noticed a surprisingly high number of really bad drivers with Uber stickers on their cars... I feel like the general standard of driving seems to have seriously decreased since I started seeing the stickers a year or so ago (before that Uber was technically illegal, so while it did operate, drivers didn't advertise so much).
On the flip side of the DUI experience (which I believe); you can easily ruin a driver’s source of income by simply accusing them of drunk driving. Best case scenario they have a dashcam and can demonstrate their sobriety with evidence, but worse case they’re deprived of their income and forced through a kafkaesque process to beg for their job back. I’ve heard this experience from half a dozen different drivers.
Add to this Uber Eats and Deliveroo. Here in London they are very popular, and most drivers use mopeds, which require very little training to get a license. I regularly see them driving through red lights, speeding, driving dangerously in general, and parking where they shouldn't.
Specifically they have a provisional license which means they took a 1 day course. They haven't passed their full driving test and still have L plates on their motorcycle. It's insane they are allowed to work based on a skill they officially don't have.
They have a direct financial incentive to break traffic and parking laws because that allows them to get paid for more deliveries. Uber Eats and other delivery services choose to turn a blind eye.
In China, approximately 100% of food delivery folks use electric mopeds, which (at least in Beijing) don't require a licence and don't require registration (although the latter is due to change soon).
They don't generally speed, and their adherence to other traffic rules, courteous parking etc. are indistinguishable from other vehicle users.
Uber and Lyft definitely put more shitty drivers out on the road constantly cruising looking to pickup or drop off their riders in most not suitable places with 0 regards to traffic, especially in NYC and suburbs. Uber and Lyft pays so little that most of their drivers are definitely not qualified to drive professionally but are doing it because they can't get any other job.
I forgot to mention that these drivers work for multiple ride-sharing companies (at least 2 but sometimes up to 4 in NYC) and have multiple smartphones docked to their dashboard constantly distracting them.
So is it the fault of Uber and Lift that the gig economy has become a thing?
I have a friend who fled Assad's genocide in Syria, has an accounting degree, and is currently looking for a job. Guess what he's doing in the meantime...
I would like to know how they eliminated confounding. Was there an increase in other risky behaviors at the same time, like texting while driving? How many of the deaths caused by accidents involved Uber or Lyft drivers? Maybe it's click-baity.
There’s also been an increase in smart phone use during the same period. I cringe at the number of drivers I see that are fully engaged in their phones while driving. It’s too bad that distracted driving has virtually cancelled out any gains in safety that modern technology has provided (auto breaking, blind spot assist, etc,) during the same time period.
Unsurprising as we know that Lyft and Uber increase the amount of cars on the road, and cars are dangerous and drivers kill people all the time.
We've known this for a century and yet we still do nothing about it.
The only way to make our cities safer is to reduce the amount of cars on the road by limiting road expansion and creating transportation alternatives to the car.
I wonder how many ridesharing deaths are related passengers not wearing seatbelts. I certainly didn't wear seatbelts when I first got in Lyft and Uber rides. I think was that because I never got into the habit of wearing seatbelts in taxis for some reason.
The world is a big complicated place and it seems to me very hard to lay a small shift in that metric on a specific companies doorstep. It's one of those extrordinary claims / extrordinary proof things, and as such I find it unproven.
When I'm crossing a street and a car flies through the intersection nearly hitting me, it's usually an Uber driver. Were taxi drivers so desperate to speed through cities and reach their next fare as quickly as possible?
Yes, Taxi drivers were much worse about this. This is a gross generalization but based on my experience Taxi drivers drive much more aggressively and have more disregard for traffic laws, but are also generally more skilled.
[+] [-] jonchang|7 years ago|reply
http://cityobservatory.org/unsafe-uber-lethal-lyft-were-skep...
[+] [-] antidesitter|7 years ago|reply
Edit: There's also the possibility of spurious correlations, as mentioned in the comments below.
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] pmcollins|7 years ago|reply
The article mentions a 3% increase in deaths since 2011 despite cars getting safer, but 2011 correlates to the start of the total ubiquity of the smartphone as well.
On the other hand, I've had some very sketchy Uber/Lyft rides involving extremely late lane changes, almost missing turns/offramps and trying to dive in at the last second. The combination of often younger people who might end up driving for Uber/Lyft, often driving unfamiliar routes, relying on the instructions provided by a phone attached four feet away, while engaged in a conversation with passengers, is probably generally not as safe as you driving yourself along a familiar route.
But it would be quite a feat of analysis if anybody were able to disentangle the effect of Uber/Lyft from other changes since 2011.
[+] [-] sitkack|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] creato|7 years ago|reply
My understanding is that the taxi medallion system originally came to be because there was too much competition in the taxi business, leading to corners being cut (e.g. maintenance) and overcrowding by taxis in certain places. Maybe we're learning this lesson again? This level of competition has brought a lot of convenience and comfort improvements over taxis. But from a big picture point of view, I'm not sure that this level of competition is a good thing. I almost wish Uber/Lyft were more expensive (and that money went to drivers). I'd use them less, but I'd be happier about using it when I did.
[+] [-] maccam94|7 years ago|reply
The dynamic pricing and monitoring of supply and demand help avoid overcompetition, but that assumes that drivers really won't drive if they are losing money. I wonder if there's app functionality for the driver to plug in their fuel economy/depreciation to show what their actual profit is...
[+] [-] majos|7 years ago|reply
You can do this already using the tips on both platforms, which go entirely to the driver. Unless your wish is that it were more expensive on a macro level.
[+] [-] nradov|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dorfsmay|7 years ago|reply
In fact, I'd want those regulations regardless of uber/lyft/taxis. If individuals can lower road safety by cutting corners, that should be regulated, including lack of sleep.
[+] [-] aeternus|7 years ago|reply
Every passenger (should be) effectively voting on the safety of the driver. No turn signals or engine light on? Subtract a few stars. If they violate a traffic law, 1 star and report for safety violation.
[+] [-] remote_phone|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drb91|7 years ago|reply
Talk about an industry that needs regulation!
[+] [-] rasteau|7 years ago|reply
Do you continue the ride? Do you inform the company?
> Talk about an industry that needs regulation!
I infer that you use Uber/Lyft/etc despite your concerns. Why not instead vote with your wallet, and use one of those nice, government-regulated taxicabs?
[+] [-] prepend|7 years ago|reply
I’ve done this a few times and gotten a personalized response from Uber every time.
[+] [-] seattle_spring|7 years ago|reply
Really? I've taken more than 1000 rides on both platforms combined and this has not happened to me once.
> Some of the drivers I get have been in the country for a matter of weeks or even days
How exactly are you inferring this information? I've never had a driver tell me this. Some of them have thick accents, sure, but so do some of my engineering co-workers who have been in the country for years.
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Symbiote|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jetcata|7 years ago|reply
Many times the driver is in too big a rush to get their next fare, and they drive erratically and over the speed limit whilst using their phone. I even had a driver whose breath smelt like he’d been drinking. I just don’t feel safe, and I don’t think these companies regulate or check how safe their drivers are driving. I wonder whether there could be something in their driver app that monitors the speed or safety of the driver when they have a passenger in the car. I know that some insurance companies have apps like these.
[+] [-] stephen_g|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drb91|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fyfy18|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lozenge|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nradov|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rahimnathwani|7 years ago|reply
They don't generally speed, and their adherence to other traffic rules, courteous parking etc. are indistinguishable from other vehicle users.
[+] [-] elvirs|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ralmidani|7 years ago|reply
I have a friend who fled Assad's genocide in Syria, has an accounting degree, and is currently looking for a job. Guess what he's doing in the meantime...
[+] [-] bougiefever|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] awakeasleep|7 years ago|reply
Instead they make other, unrelated claims about drunk driving safety increases.
[+] [-] m0dest|7 years ago|reply
The article makes extensive use of this acronym without defining it.
[+] [-] heydenberk|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bgutierrez|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EvilTerran|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rticesterp|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tiktaalik|7 years ago|reply
We've known this for a century and yet we still do nothing about it.
The only way to make our cities safer is to reduce the amount of cars on the road by limiting road expansion and creating transportation alternatives to the car.
[+] [-] PopeDotNinja|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Neil44|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] icotyl|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aeternus|7 years ago|reply