Not to knock your website at all, I think it is really well designed, neat and I think that affordable quality logo design is a very important service that many people need and do not know where to turn for help.
Unless you are outsourcing the designs, similar to 99designs and company, I wouldn't consider the business a startup by traditional definition.
When I read the description that PG gives to what it means to be a startup it really opened my eyes and was definitely a turning point in the way that I thought about designing products.
"A company has to be more than small and newly founded to be a startup. There are millions of small businesses in America, but only a few thousand are startups. To be a startup, a company has to be a product business, not a service business. By which I mean not that it has to make something physical, but that it has to have one thing it sells to many people, rather than doing custom work for individual clients. Custom work doesn't scale. To be a startup you need to be the band that sells a million copies of a song, not the band that makes money by playing at individual weddings and bar mitzvahs."
So if you are looking to be a startup, you will need think about how you can mass produce the designs. That being said not all companies are startups, and that is fine - sometimes it's just good to know the difference between the two...I know it helped me a lot. Again, think the website is great and I don't mean this as a negative.
EDIT: I didn't mean this to be a negative at all, I think anyone who takes the initiative to create something and has the drive to actually get it started has done something great. I wish there were more people who actually did shit like this rather than just talked about it.
[Updated. The first version of this comment didn't address some important points.]
Actually, I am outsourcing the designs. I've gathered a team of designers (five of them, currently) who design the logos for me on a commission basis, allowing me to scale my expenses as I make sales. The web platform I have set up allows clients to communicate with designers directly through the design process.
As this is the first version of my site, I am offering only a one-size-fits-all service to clients right now. As I work on marketing v1.0, however, I am also developing v2.0, a logo design marketplace.
One of the many good questions that has been raised in these comments is how to compete with established design marketplaces. Here are some of the ways I have considered.
- Offer equivalent services with a lower fee.
- Add additional services, such as an hour of brand consulting before the logo is designed, or assistance in placing the logo on the client website/etc.
- Providing a more complete branding package with letterhead, stationery, and website design.
In what other ways could I compete? Perhaps the most fundamental question is whether this market is so crowded and has such established/successful companies in it already that I should not attempt to direct in the logo market completely. In that case, what other niches have you seen that are similar but less crowded? I am not opposed to pivoting.
An open question is how I will be able to maintain customer satisfaction and also keep logo quality at a high level, while scaling my services.
-- This seems like a crowded space, how do you differentiate yourself? I was looking for an "About Us" section to tell me why you're different than 99 Designs, Logo Snap, etc.
-- The price point seems off compared to other options. For example, Logo Company offers logo, stationary and business cards at roughly the same cost. Do you offer better quality? Multiple designers? A more personalized experience?
-- Once you get off the ground, a few customer testimonials wouldn't be a bad thing. Also, the option to actually talk to a person about your logo design throughout the process is something attractive to those of us who would like to actually interact with a human being.
-- The site is fairly broken for me, but that is probably because I'm at work and we're forced to use IE7(!)
Just trying to help, not trying to dissuade you from doing this.
As someone who is in the market for logo design, what strikes me is this.
Currently, I if I go to 99designs or CrowdSpring or whatnot, I can get 30 something designers to submit ideas for basically the same price point. With your site, I get 6 versions from you. So roughly, I can get 5 times more submissions from other sites.
And since I don't know you (not meant to be offensive), it "feels" like I'm then paying a premium for your services, and it's not clear why I would want to pay a premium.
How would you respond? Keep in mind that lower price isn't necessarily the answer.
Great point about the testimonials. Here's the HN offer: 60% off for 1 week (until Nov. 4, 2010). That means $100 per logo. To get the discount, use the code "HNDiscount" in the referral field of the submission form.
Please don't get my review as negativity I may sound a little harsh but I'm genuinely trying to give helpful feedback.
1. Lose the free theme. I think some 'startups' can get away with a crappy generic design when they sell a good compelling product. In your case, your design skills are your product. So you are giving a really bad demo right away.
2. You're selling visuals, so go the simple visual route. Showcase your demo logos first in your page, maybe in a slideshow. Big beautiful crisp logos. Then a big, clear call to action: "Get a custom logo for $249".
3. Are you a trained designer? Please don't take this badly, but your demo logos are not as good as they can be. Take this advice from a 10-Year designer who has come to accept that he sucks at logos. I think the problem is with the typography, it looks odd-spaced and rushed. You need to spend more time refining your type skills.
4. Your characters and symbols are very good, though. The bear is funny and well-drawn and the cupcake is cute. I'll make a wild guess and say that's your strength. You should feature your strengths.
5. You really need to make a KILLER ZestyLogos logo. And make sure it's very Zesty (whatever that means).
1. I'm not that great at CSS. Do you have any suggestions for where I could get help with (1)?
2. Yes, I do need to have a killer ZestyLogos logo. That's my next priority.
Ignore the stuff about this not being a startup. It's you, striking out. Good for you.
That aside, what are you going to do to promote yourself over and above 99designs and co? It looks like a crowded market to me, so how will you make yourself stand out?
A couple of questions, if you don't mind me being very intrusive:
How many $249 gigs a month do you need to be profitable?
How will you maintain your margins as you (hopefully) grow?
Good questions. How many sales I need per month to be profitable depends on how much I spend on advertising, which is my main expense. If I can find a better advertising method (I'm currently using Trada.com for PPC), then I will be able to reach profitability faster.
As far as maintaining margins as I grow, there should not be a huge problem with dropping margins, unless I have to drop my price point. I will be hiring an account manager/customer service person once I have enough sales per month to make it worth it.
Perhaps I have missed some crucial details - please feel free to point these out.
1) the front page text is a little hard to read. i think the text color blends into the background too much.
2) your layout looks like a wordpress blog template. really really boiler plate. this is hardly the kind of site i want to pay $250 for a logo. you've got a todo list in the top right ("clean my deks", "feed the cat", "save the planet"), what does any of this have to do with logo design? it also takes up 20%! of the page.
3) your faq page is coming soon. either do it or get rid of it. this makes your website seem new and that's not the kind of website i want to be paying $250.
4) you have no logo yourself?
5) your order page is way too big/long. collect some small info first and then have a conversation with me that helps you answer all those questions.
There are some good sample logos on the page, but the overall design reads more as a vanity site/portfolio than as a marketing page.
Make every element on the page justify its presence. "Hey, coffee-stained TODO list in the top right corner, why do you exist? How are you helping me sell logos?"
Consider finding someone to do a thorough edit of your marketing copy. Lots of good ideas in there, but it's uneven.
1)i don't like the fact that you use a plain text instead of a AWESOME logo for your own brand ...
2)you are probably using (i bet you are) a stock theme, from somebody that supposed to sell me a unique logo i expect him to be capable to design a nice site ...
3)I liked 3 of the logos (candice jane cakes , bad news bakers , twarket) the rest didn't looked amateurish
[+] [-] tgriesser|15 years ago|reply
Unless you are outsourcing the designs, similar to 99designs and company, I wouldn't consider the business a startup by traditional definition.
When I read the description that PG gives to what it means to be a startup it really opened my eyes and was definitely a turning point in the way that I thought about designing products.
"A company has to be more than small and newly founded to be a startup. There are millions of small businesses in America, but only a few thousand are startups. To be a startup, a company has to be a product business, not a service business. By which I mean not that it has to make something physical, but that it has to have one thing it sells to many people, rather than doing custom work for individual clients. Custom work doesn't scale. To be a startup you need to be the band that sells a million copies of a song, not the band that makes money by playing at individual weddings and bar mitzvahs."
So if you are looking to be a startup, you will need think about how you can mass produce the designs. That being said not all companies are startups, and that is fine - sometimes it's just good to know the difference between the two...I know it helped me a lot. Again, think the website is great and I don't mean this as a negative.
from: http://www.paulgraham.com/startupfunding.html
EDIT: I didn't mean this to be a negative at all, I think anyone who takes the initiative to create something and has the drive to actually get it started has done something great. I wish there were more people who actually did shit like this rather than just talked about it.
[+] [-] chrishaum|15 years ago|reply
Actually, I am outsourcing the designs. I've gathered a team of designers (five of them, currently) who design the logos for me on a commission basis, allowing me to scale my expenses as I make sales. The web platform I have set up allows clients to communicate with designers directly through the design process.
As this is the first version of my site, I am offering only a one-size-fits-all service to clients right now. As I work on marketing v1.0, however, I am also developing v2.0, a logo design marketplace.
One of the many good questions that has been raised in these comments is how to compete with established design marketplaces. Here are some of the ways I have considered.
- Offer equivalent services with a lower fee. - Add additional services, such as an hour of brand consulting before the logo is designed, or assistance in placing the logo on the client website/etc. - Providing a more complete branding package with letterhead, stationery, and website design.
In what other ways could I compete? Perhaps the most fundamental question is whether this market is so crowded and has such established/successful companies in it already that I should not attempt to direct in the logo market completely. In that case, what other niches have you seen that are similar but less crowded? I am not opposed to pivoting.
An open question is how I will be able to maintain customer satisfaction and also keep logo quality at a high level, while scaling my services.
[+] [-] BTBurke|15 years ago|reply
-- The price point seems off compared to other options. For example, Logo Company offers logo, stationary and business cards at roughly the same cost. Do you offer better quality? Multiple designers? A more personalized experience?
-- Once you get off the ground, a few customer testimonials wouldn't be a bad thing. Also, the option to actually talk to a person about your logo design throughout the process is something attractive to those of us who would like to actually interact with a human being.
-- The site is fairly broken for me, but that is probably because I'm at work and we're forced to use IE7(!)
[+] [-] christopherslee|15 years ago|reply
As someone who is in the market for logo design, what strikes me is this.
Currently, I if I go to 99designs or CrowdSpring or whatnot, I can get 30 something designers to submit ideas for basically the same price point. With your site, I get 6 versions from you. So roughly, I can get 5 times more submissions from other sites.
And since I don't know you (not meant to be offensive), it "feels" like I'm then paying a premium for your services, and it's not clear why I would want to pay a premium.
How would you respond? Keep in mind that lower price isn't necessarily the answer.
[+] [-] jbail|15 years ago|reply
You could use some testimonials. Coupon for HN?
[+] [-] chrishaum|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] midnightmonster|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrishaum|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] armandososa|15 years ago|reply
1. Lose the free theme. I think some 'startups' can get away with a crappy generic design when they sell a good compelling product. In your case, your design skills are your product. So you are giving a really bad demo right away.
2. You're selling visuals, so go the simple visual route. Showcase your demo logos first in your page, maybe in a slideshow. Big beautiful crisp logos. Then a big, clear call to action: "Get a custom logo for $249".
3. Are you a trained designer? Please don't take this badly, but your demo logos are not as good as they can be. Take this advice from a 10-Year designer who has come to accept that he sucks at logos. I think the problem is with the typography, it looks odd-spaced and rushed. You need to spend more time refining your type skills.
4. Your characters and symbols are very good, though. The bear is funny and well-drawn and the cupcake is cute. I'll make a wild guess and say that's your strength. You should feature your strengths.
5. You really need to make a KILLER ZestyLogos logo. And make sure it's very Zesty (whatever that means).
Good luck pal.
[+] [-] chrishaum|15 years ago|reply
1. I'm not that great at CSS. Do you have any suggestions for where I could get help with (1)? 2. Yes, I do need to have a killer ZestyLogos logo. That's my next priority.
[+] [-] _b8r0|15 years ago|reply
That aside, what are you going to do to promote yourself over and above 99designs and co? It looks like a crowded market to me, so how will you make yourself stand out?
A couple of questions, if you don't mind me being very intrusive:
How many $249 gigs a month do you need to be profitable?
How will you maintain your margins as you (hopefully) grow?
Best of luck though with the site and service.
[+] [-] chrishaum|15 years ago|reply
As far as maintaining margins as I grow, there should not be a huge problem with dropping margins, unless I have to drop my price point. I will be hiring an account manager/customer service person once I have enough sales per month to make it worth it.
Perhaps I have missed some crucial details - please feel free to point these out.
Thanks!
[+] [-] ryanto|15 years ago|reply
1) your opening text gets right to the point.
the bad:
1) the front page text is a little hard to read. i think the text color blends into the background too much.
2) your layout looks like a wordpress blog template. really really boiler plate. this is hardly the kind of site i want to pay $250 for a logo. you've got a todo list in the top right ("clean my deks", "feed the cat", "save the planet"), what does any of this have to do with logo design? it also takes up 20%! of the page.
3) your faq page is coming soon. either do it or get rid of it. this makes your website seem new and that's not the kind of website i want to be paying $250.
4) you have no logo yourself?
5) your order page is way too big/long. collect some small info first and then have a conversation with me that helps you answer all those questions.
[+] [-] jbarnette|15 years ago|reply
Make every element on the page justify its presence. "Hey, coffee-stained TODO list in the top right corner, why do you exist? How are you helping me sell logos?"
Consider finding someone to do a thorough edit of your marketing copy. Lots of good ideas in there, but it's uneven.
[+] [-] asdfor|15 years ago|reply
2)you are probably using (i bet you are) a stock theme, from somebody that supposed to sell me a unique logo i expect him to be capable to design a nice site ...
3)I liked 3 of the logos (candice jane cakes , bad news bakers , twarket) the rest didn't looked amateurish
[+] [-] lachyg|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] duck|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iconfinder|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wccrawford|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] StanDarsh|15 years ago|reply