I've had my iPhone X replaced once after the screen went mental - a bright green line randomly appeared on one side of the screen - now the replacement drops > 50% of all calls :-(
On the MacBook Pro front I've had the sticking keys issue on the left command, C, B, G and 3 keys - so took it in finally after being tortured by this for months - 1 week later and I called them to see what was going on and they said that the whole top piece needed to be replaced, but when taking out the motherboard they have snapped the thing in two.
Making these machines difficult to repair doesn't just effect end users it seems.
Still, I'm glad that Apple are still the sort of company that replace the whole machine in these situations. I'm sure there are bean counters who will be thinking making it harder to get things fixed is the solution though.
> Still, I'm glad that Apple are still the sort of company that replace the whole machine in these situations
Huh, in Norway there are multiple cases of them refusing to follow the law when it comes to repairs. Norway has good consumer protection laws, better than the guarantee most companies provide, and Apple is known for not honoring this.
> On the MacBook Pro [2016] front I've had the sticking keys issue on the left command, C, B, G and 3 keys
I so want to buy the MacBook Air 2018 but am afraid the 3rd generation keys only delay the known problems until I’m out of warranty. I have to wait and see if there is a wave of defects in a year or two to judge its reliability. Why did Apple have to sacrifice reliability for thinness…
I buy high config apple devices regularly, and they're quite expensive here in India with import duty, rupee depreciation and ppp in mind.
If my products went bad like, I'd be genuinely too disappointed. Luckily I've always had damaged / out of warranty products replaced by apple by being a little persistent.
> On the MacBook Pro front I've had the sticking keys issue on the left command, C, B, G and 3 keys - so took it in finally after being tortured by this for months - 1 week later and I called them to see what was going on and they said that the whole top piece needed to be replaced, but when taking out the motherboard they have snapped the thing in two.
Still, I'm glad that Apple are still the sort of company that replace the whole machine in these situations. I'm sure there are bean counters who will be thinking making it harder to get things fixed is the solution though.
It is possible because customers pay for it. It sure as heck is not coming out of the profit for the shareholders...
I've just had the keyboard recall done on my 2017 mbp after the J key started failing/duplicating when being pressed.
The whole process, although annoying, was painless. The tech gave me the option of them trying to fix it by blowing dust out or just replacing the entire keyboard. I elected for the later given that it's a design fault. The repair took 1 1/2 days which I had done when I was out of town.
Since they glue everything together, getting a new J key also meant a new keyboard, touch bar, finger print reader, speakers, battery and touch pad. Which if there was no recall I can imagine would be a costly exercise. Hopefully after the recent recalls Apple engineers will be looking at making easier to service components.
It feels like Apple is caught in the classic "innovator's dilemma" described in Christensen's book. Constantly being pushed to higher margin products by competition which is focused on the low end market. The problem is, at some point, the "low-end" products become good enough, causing a sudden loss of sales.
The way out is to come up with entirely new products, which Apple has done remarkably well before. I think it's high time they do so again.
I think the drive to create high margin products is making Apple gravitate towards pushing out technologies that differentiate them from the rest, such as the touch bar, or these keyboards. But it may not actually be better.
I went into an apple store and tried the new MacBook Pro — keyboard had keys that didn’t work LOL. The Best demo I’ve ever had, really showcased the true issues I read about on these threads !
I've had my latest gen MBP (retina with touch bar, top spec'd) replaced twice, and on the latest replacement, the whole keyboard assembly - with whatever was attached to it - also replaced.
(Yes, I fully regret selling my previous gen MBP.)
Like another person on here said, these replacements & repairs hurt both the customer and the company.
I don't understand why Apple makes these drastic changes on major products without thorough, repeated, and lengthy QA processes.
I’ve invested heavily in the Apple ecosystem so it pains me to see these issues. It looks like my best bet is the Mac Mini and hook up higher quality externals. That or I’ll just hope my 2013 MBP lasts long enough for a viable replacement option to appear.
I’ve invested heavily in the Apple ecosystem so it pains me to see these issues.
Same here. I have a MacBook Pro 2016 with AppleCare, that I want to sell before the AppleCare runs out (with some margin) and definitely before the extended keyboard warranty deadline is in sight. I am worried that, since these generations are plagued by keyboard problems, the prices will drop quickly.
I used to buy a new MacBook every 1.5 to 2 years. However, I honestly do not know which model I would buy. I do not want a model with a touch bar (I don't like the touch bar and it is slightly expensive). The MacBook Pro escape wasn't refreshed, it still has the keyboard without the silicon membranes. And the new Air uses much less powerful CPUs. Even if I would go for the Pro with touch bar or Air, I would still be worried that the butterfly keyboard problems are not solved, just postponed.
I agree that the Mac Mini looks like the only reasonable machine, performance-wise and quality-wise. Of course, it's not that handy on the go ;).
I had a 2015MBP at work, upgraded it now... oh man, does the new one suck. I mean, the touchbar is such a spectacularly bad idea, I'm honestly surprised they kept it for so long. I thought my concerns were overblown, but as it turns out, they weren't - the touchbar really is that bad. I'm thinking of going back to my old computer for 3 more years, and giving this back to IT.
Same here. I have a mid-2012 MBPr. The keyboard is utterly fantastic.
I'm hoping sanity kicks in by 2020 and there is a better keyboard. But I am not holding my breath, I'm sure they'll double down and have version 4 of the butterfly keyboard.
I wish I could pay 50% more for a laptop, so even if it's just less fast, 300% thicker, could still survive for 5 years without fainting.
It seems thinkpads or some other dell laptops (or other brands?) have some kind of military grade requirements so they can sustain not only punishments and mistreatments, but also not have those faulty gimmicks that are caused by fragile designs.
It's the difference between wanting a fancy sports car and a good old military vehicle. There are designs that are well thought out, and are just more reliable in the long term. I don't want shiny, performant cool object, I want things to work. Not aiming at apple in particular.
Huh. My iPhone X failed that way a week and a half ago.
They can't repair it until "Find My iPhone" is turned off." Do you know how much fun it was to turn it off while my phone was sporadic in what it responded to?
About time Apple recognized this issue with the iPhone X. We’ve been replacing iPhone X displays nonstop for months due to this issue and the troubleshooting process to have Apple cover it has been a huge pain.
I'm waiting for the EU to finally pass regulations that require a certain level of repairability for electronics. Modern iPhones are almost impossible to take apart and I don't understand how that's okay from any point of view other than profitability. It's such a massive waste of resources on one-use devices.
If they buy an iCloud storage plan, iCloud will be their “backup”. If the device fails, their data lives on. Get a new device and all their data is “restored”. Of course it’s a sync service, not a backup service, so you can’t role back. For the average user though I guess this doesn’t matter.
(macOS takes local snapshots if unused disk space permits. So you could revert back some files if the change is recent.)
Most of my time on the computer takes place in the Browser, Office 365, and a few messaging apps. Everything else is in either one drive or iCloud. While I understand that not everyone feels comfortable with their stuff on 'the cloud', I have grown to appreciate the mobility this gives me as far as 'is my stuff backed up'
While probably not for the average user, my father is using a mac pro and mbp quite heavily for photo and video, and he's using a synology nas with time machine enabled. It's been working for a few years now without problems.
Great news that Apple is finally admitting what's been common knowledge and the butt of many jokes in the Mac community.
Armed with this knowledge I'm going to wait till my company gets decent stock of the 2018 MB Airs then report my reproducible but not urgent issue on my current 2017 MBP.
A year after iPhone X went on sale, they admit to a problem? And 1 more year before their performance throttling kills the usability if this model
What if they delayed admission to reduce repair costs, and minimize brand damage? I don't trust them to be transparent, I hope regulators are watching this pattern.
Is the new Air a safe bet? I'm looking to buy before the end of the year. Does anyone know or suspect whether Apple has or has not fixed their hardware problems?
[+] [-] andy_ppp|7 years ago|reply
On the MacBook Pro front I've had the sticking keys issue on the left command, C, B, G and 3 keys - so took it in finally after being tortured by this for months - 1 week later and I called them to see what was going on and they said that the whole top piece needed to be replaced, but when taking out the motherboard they have snapped the thing in two.
Making these machines difficult to repair doesn't just effect end users it seems.
Still, I'm glad that Apple are still the sort of company that replace the whole machine in these situations. I'm sure there are bean counters who will be thinking making it harder to get things fixed is the solution though.
[+] [-] ardy42|7 years ago|reply
Don't MacBooks have the SSD soldered onto the motherboard now, so motherboard damage == total data loss?
Edit: yep: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/11/touch-bar-mbp-teardo...
If you're going to make something almost totally unrepairable, you'd better make it almost totally reliable as well.
[+] [-] maaaats|7 years ago|reply
Huh, in Norway there are multiple cases of them refusing to follow the law when it comes to repairs. Norway has good consumer protection laws, better than the guarantee most companies provide, and Apple is known for not honoring this.
[+] [-] tqkxzugoaupvwqr|7 years ago|reply
I so want to buy the MacBook Air 2018 but am afraid the 3rd generation keys only delay the known problems until I’m out of warranty. I have to wait and see if there is a wave of defects in a year or two to judge its reliability. Why did Apple have to sacrifice reliability for thinness…
[+] [-] gtyras2mrs|7 years ago|reply
MKBHD's Pixel 3 also had a similar issue.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/9r0hsh/mkbhd_im_no...
[+] [-] r_singh|7 years ago|reply
If my products went bad like, I'd be genuinely too disappointed. Luckily I've always had damaged / out of warranty products replaced by apple by being a little persistent.
[+] [-] cududa|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] magnetic|7 years ago|reply
Is this on the 2018 MBP?
[+] [-] stevewodil|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dba7dba|7 years ago|reply
It is possible because customers pay for it. It sure as heck is not coming out of the profit for the shareholders...
[+] [-] jotm|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] aunty_helen|7 years ago|reply
The whole process, although annoying, was painless. The tech gave me the option of them trying to fix it by blowing dust out or just replacing the entire keyboard. I elected for the later given that it's a design fault. The repair took 1 1/2 days which I had done when I was out of town.
Since they glue everything together, getting a new J key also meant a new keyboard, touch bar, finger print reader, speakers, battery and touch pad. Which if there was no recall I can imagine would be a costly exercise. Hopefully after the recent recalls Apple engineers will be looking at making easier to service components.
[+] [-] czardoz|7 years ago|reply
The way out is to come up with entirely new products, which Apple has done remarkably well before. I think it's high time they do so again.
I think the drive to create high margin products is making Apple gravitate towards pushing out technologies that differentiate them from the rest, such as the touch bar, or these keyboards. But it may not actually be better.
[+] [-] abledon|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bitwize|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cfitz|7 years ago|reply
(Yes, I fully regret selling my previous gen MBP.)
Like another person on here said, these replacements & repairs hurt both the customer and the company.
I don't understand why Apple makes these drastic changes on major products without thorough, repeated, and lengthy QA processes.
What's happened?
[+] [-] vikingcaffiene|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] microtonal|7 years ago|reply
Same here. I have a MacBook Pro 2016 with AppleCare, that I want to sell before the AppleCare runs out (with some margin) and definitely before the extended keyboard warranty deadline is in sight. I am worried that, since these generations are plagued by keyboard problems, the prices will drop quickly.
I used to buy a new MacBook every 1.5 to 2 years. However, I honestly do not know which model I would buy. I do not want a model with a touch bar (I don't like the touch bar and it is slightly expensive). The MacBook Pro escape wasn't refreshed, it still has the keyboard without the silicon membranes. And the new Air uses much less powerful CPUs. Even if I would go for the Pro with touch bar or Air, I would still be worried that the butterfly keyboard problems are not solved, just postponed.
I agree that the Mac Mini looks like the only reasonable machine, performance-wise and quality-wise. Of course, it's not that handy on the go ;).
[+] [-] virgilp|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] roymurdock|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] no1youknowz|7 years ago|reply
I'm hoping sanity kicks in by 2020 and there is a better keyboard. But I am not holding my breath, I'm sure they'll double down and have version 4 of the butterfly keyboard.
[+] [-] dmolony|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jokoon|7 years ago|reply
It seems thinkpads or some other dell laptops (or other brands?) have some kind of military grade requirements so they can sustain not only punishments and mistreatments, but also not have those faulty gimmicks that are caused by fragile designs.
It's the difference between wanting a fancy sports car and a good old military vehicle. There are designs that are well thought out, and are just more reliable in the long term. I don't want shiny, performant cool object, I want things to work. Not aiming at apple in particular.
[+] [-] btilly|7 years ago|reply
They can't repair it until "Find My iPhone" is turned off." Do you know how much fun it was to turn it off while my phone was sporadic in what it responded to?
[+] [-] stevewodil|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sumedh|7 years ago|reply
Why not?
[+] [-] jbnorth|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] st3fan|7 years ago|reply
Why is it so special when this happens for a major hardware vendor like Apple? Is the expectation that hardware has no bugs? Is that realistic?
[+] [-] jplayer01|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geauxvirtual|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] herf|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrisweekly|7 years ago|reply
(Edit: dunno that I represent the "average" user, but this simple setup has served me well for years.)
[+] [-] tlrobinson|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tqkxzugoaupvwqr|7 years ago|reply
(macOS takes local snapshots if unused disk space permits. So you could revert back some files if the change is recent.)
[+] [-] duskwuff|7 years ago|reply
If it's been ~14+ days since your last backup, the computer will start displaying daily notifications reminding you to plug in the backup drive.
[+] [-] mlacks|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] microtonal|7 years ago|reply
https://www.arqbackup.com/
[+] [-] CharlesW|7 years ago|reply
In my case, Carbon Copy Cloner plus Time Machine backups to a local NAS.[1]
[1] https://www.qnap.com/en-us/how-to/tutorial/article/time-mach...
[+] [-] tyfon|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gnicholas|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wasdfff|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vmasto|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] r00fus|7 years ago|reply
Armed with this knowledge I'm going to wait till my company gets decent stock of the 2018 MB Airs then report my reproducible but not urgent issue on my current 2017 MBP.
[+] [-] nkkollaw|7 years ago|reply
Better late than never, I guess.
[+] [-] msie|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] writepub|7 years ago|reply
What if they delayed admission to reduce repair costs, and minimize brand damage? I don't trust them to be transparent, I hope regulators are watching this pattern.
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] curo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Eric_WVGG|7 years ago|reply