I'm saddened by all of the negativity in these comments. So many people falling back on the old stereotypes of the South and Midwest, people who have clearly not spent time in these places. I live in a small city in Kansas and have worked remotely for SFBA tech companies for over 10 years. I moved here from the Seattle area. I can tell you that life is amazing when you make Bay Area money and live in a small Midwestern city. You can build a beautiful, new house with lots of space and spend far less than rent on a SF 1 bedroom apartment. You can walk to work--drivers are friendly out here--at a coworking facility (we have two in my little town alone) and eat lunch for less than $10 no problemo. You can find almost anything you need locally and if you can't find it here, you'll have plenty of spare cash to book a five-star hotel room in the big city for the weekend and go shopping.
People are super friendly and contrary to what so many of you mistakenly believe, not judgmental. Gay couples live openly and happpily here. I've never met a racist or seen anything racist; indeed, nearly half of the houses on my block here in the affluent side of town are either black or mixed-race families. Kids play in the streets together every day and they can walk to the bus stop without the parents worrying about an Uber driver running them over.
I hope that someone here takes Kaiser/Tulsa up on their offer and reports back. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
It's gotta be judged city to city. Charleston, south Carolina is chock full of straight Jim crow racism, and I'd hazard to say that's the majority there.
It's not fair to apply that stereotype to Tulsa without going there and checking it out, but I think it's a reasonable concern.
Overall Rank Out of 50: #43
Health Care #48
Education #39
Economy #36
Opportunity #38
Infrastructure #31
Crime & Corrections #34
Fiscal Stability #22
Quality of Life #17
Those aren't great incentives for people with families to want to move. Might be more tolerable for younger folks?
Of course, getting fresh tax revenue etc may be important towards getting those various things improved, and Tulsa might be significantly better than the rest of the state.
But where are they ranked in BBQ? I moved to North Carolina from SF Bay Area and NC has much going for it ... but North Carolinians think NC BBQ is like top-3 (Lexington style, Eastern style, etc.) -- but I don't see it. I much prefer Louisiana or Texas BBQ. I'll say other aspects balance out the mediocre NC BBQ.
If Oklahoma / Tulsa BBQ is in the top-3 that might make up for a few of the deficits.
This reminds me a lot of patio11’s fascinating write up about Japanese Hometown Tax. It makes total sense for small cities to pay for high earning remote workers to move there. Perhaps this will become a trend. https://www.kalzumeus.com/2018/10/19/japanese-hometown-tax/
Spent 6 months on a project in Tulsa. I’m a big fan of the place. I was in the downtown area and ended up staying in the Mayo hotel most weeks. The incredible thing was that I was in a ~1500 square foot apartment style 2 bedroom with full kitchen and was paying on average 129/night. These rooms were 5-600 a night on weekends but the place was a ghost town during the work week. It was right next to the blue dome and bands like Pearl Jam, rob zombie, Katy perry all stayed in the place while I was there. Downtown becomes a ghost town at 5pm but there is a decent night life as well. I would totally live there.
I've been working remote for 7 years, more recently as a software developer consultant. I showed this to my wife about two hours ago and she got really excited. Neither of us like where we are living now, and have been eyeing a relocation to Texas, notably Austin or possibly Dallas. But this is definitely worth a look, based on what we've seen so far.
I'm curious if others in the tech crowd are considering the same. If you are please post your story. It would be encouraging to see other interested this offer. Heck we could be neighbors.
Just got back from Austin and Dallas. Your options are going to be a lot deeper in both of them. And if you have a family, nothing in OK, sounds very encouraging on the education front.
Financial relocation incentives don't appear to be anything new, but the alternatives never seemed to ring any bells for me. Hard to pin down precisely, but I think part of it was the fact that a lot of them were asking you to settle down in what might as well be the frontier in terms of urban density and amenities, or maybe the city in question was a burnt-out husk of its former self (a different kind of frontier almost), or maybe the incentive wasn't so much cash as much as loan assistance or some other thing that doesn't sound as sexy.
Looking at the website, pretty obvious that they're not asking me to settle in a small town or a burnt-out husk of a city. Despite my biases against Oklahoma, I get the sense that this is a pretty exciting place to be. On top of that, the incentives actually seem very practical. It's cash, plain and simple.
maybe the city in question was a burnt-out husk of its former self
As a joke, I'd say that the actual choice is between a less populated burnt-out husk of its former self, a heavily populated burnt-out husk of its former self, or some degree of truly nowhere.
Have a friend who went on tour recently and they mentioned how much they liked Tulsa. They live in San Diego right now and definitely can't afford a house in the area. Weird to see this post after talking to them about it.
It really depends on your definition of normal and comfortable, and how able you are to entertain yourself when you are not working or shacking up in your tornado shelter (which you will probably have to dig yourself.)
I mean this with all possible sincerity, but what gives you the impression that Tulsa would be an exciting place to be? I’ve never been to Tulsa, but my grandfather is from the state. My impression is that outside of OKC and maybe Tulsa, Oklahoma is basically a burnt out husk of a state.
I mean WOW the comments here are snotty against Tulsa. Relatively little discussion of the incentive itself, the fact that a single private individual is paying for the incentive (!!), or other dynamics of relocation to cheaper, easier towns for remote work.
I visited Tulsa a few months ago to just check it out. I enjoyed it greatly. The Tulsa Gathering Place is absolutely unreal for a free public park. There is enough going on there to make it a worthwhile place to move to for a few years. A considerable amount of very high end architecture and art there.
I am doing a multifamily development with similar (not nearly as generous) relocation incentives tied in through a medical district. Very interesting way to move the needle and encourage shifts in living. For most cities, this is a much cheaper way to approach affordable housing as well.
I grew up in Tulsa as a minority. Went to Jenks Public schools.
Two students in my graduation class got accepted to Harvard, and others to MIT, U Penn, and Duke. They have gone on to become successful tech entrepreneurs and professors. The graduating class after my year had 4 students accepted to Stanford.
Non est ratio ad gustum ... Über Geschmack lässt sich nicht streiten ... Les goûts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas ...
There is a reason why almost every language has an idiomatic expression to express the same idea.
Tulsa may be a great place for you, it may be a not so great place for you. But dismissing an idea based on no real experience and innate prejudices is pretty stupid.
> I mean WOW the comments here are snotty against Tulsa
If there was an article about paying remote workers to move to SF, you'd get the exact same thing. I mean, obviously the specific complaints themselves would be different, but you'd still get the same rough tone and criticism.
I was born in Tulsa and left before my teens (to us, Oklahoma was the South West/South as opposed to Midwest). Lived elsewhere in the United States, Germany, and now live in Switzerland.
I have a lot of fond memories of the place, but returning there after 25 years completely shattered my romantic childhood feelings. The city was not doing great when I lived there, but it felt far worse now (husk comment earlier). You want to know where MAGA came from? All you need to do was live in Tulsa 25 years ago and compare it to today: the rust and rot. The place is sprawling; you’ll need a car. Summer is oppressively humid against biking. It is far more diverse than it was, but I have doubts about the true level of comforts minorities (all stripes from ethnicity to political) feel. I felt somewhat insulated from religion with Unitarian parents, but the prevailing religion runs strong here. I don’t think they’d accept me if they really knew what I thought today. Infrastructure is laughably in poor shape. My father tells me corruption/nepotism/patronage still drives most appointments in OK civil service. I recall fondly of the — can’t believe I am saying this — sweet smell of crude oil refinement from West Tulsa that permeates the entire town and ambient sounds of the pump jacks (yes, sporadically in the neighborhood).
Food is certainly better than what it was. Folks in their early 20s seem to be pushing for more. I actually had a respectable bowl of ramen there. Growing up, there were two Chinese restaurants only. That tells you a lot!
I always appreciated how direct the people were — zero pretense or two-faced behavior. A lot of small talk. You’ll have to be OK with the provincialism. Miss the intense Thunderstorms a whole lot.
My parents were not especially political or conveying of class or social consciousness. I recall a few trips to Arkansas when I was young and crossing the border from OK into AR and wondering what the hell was wrong with that place. It seemed like that much of a step down.
Tulsa has — or had — it’s quirky charm. Everyone knows about the South Park episode about that Mexican restaurant Casa Bonita. Well, guess what, that one in Colorado it parodied is based on an original in Tulsa. Also: in that same strip mall (yep, you’ll love Tulsa if you love sprawling one-story drags of strip malls), there was Starbase 21, a store dedicated to Star Trek franchise paraphernalia, which I think closed recently (sadly). Let’s not forget the world’s largest McDonalds in Vinita that spanned an interstate. These days, the place feels dreadfully big-boxed.
I am a parent now. While nature access is OK (not great but not terrible), certainly faster to reach than in the Bay Area (sorry), I would be concerned with the schools. They have been starved to death and the school day largely cut to four days.
I realize this won’t satisfy anyone’s claims for empirical remarks, but it is just the perspective of someone who knew the place intimately and returned recently. My feelings are textured.
I don't qualify for this offer, and I wouldn't accept it if I did. I have a ragweed allergy. I was horribly ill when I lived in Kansas, probably at least in part because it is ragweed central. Oklahoma is also ragweed central. So that doesn't work for me.
I liked Oklahoma when I went through there. I spent a few years kind of wishing I could live in Oklahoma. I am a homebody who spends a lot of time online. I need a few decent places to eat and shop, but I can kind of make my own fun.
I mostly don't understand complaints that a city is "boring." I mean, if it has 500 people, okay, I can see that. I need a certain amount of city fabric. But I don't really get it when that gets said about big cities. Tulsa is 400k people.
I have a sister who recently bought a house in Tulsa.
Their house is so large it's got rooms she's forgotten about...
Pretty new, pool, nice neighborhood. Cost less than $300K.
I don't know about the school district (Jenks).
I'd sure like to see some progressive voters move down there.
Both Oklahoma and Vermont have close to a 5% state income tax on the first 100k of income, so for many on HN, this is more like a rebate on state income taxes over the first 2 years. I guess if you always dreamed of moving to these places this could be that little nudge to finally try it out.
This means that states without income tax (WA, NV, TX, TN etc) are yet still more enticing for most high-earning professionals. I agree with other commenters saying this doesn't do much except help the people who always were considering moving to OK/VT.
I predict this is going to start a trend. For a whole lot less than the $48,000 a job municipalities paid to attract Amazon why not spend a fifth of that and draw in thousands of remote workers?
@soared pointed out that Vermont is also offering $10,000 to move and work remotely.
I can see this remaining a quiet movement. If it's successful I can see states competing for people the same way they compete for tourism (or on the last page of the travel brochure: "You came, you saw. Want $10,000 and are willing to relocate? Call XXX")
Remote workers already know they can live anywhere, and $10K is nice but for a professional software engineer it's not that great. So while I'm not looking to move, I'm curious what they're using to entice me to want to live there.
What I see is ... a whole lot of drinking-related activities. "Experience" Oktoberfest, "Toast" at lots of bars, "Hang Out" at lots of other bars, "Brew" more beer. I wonder if this is more a reflection of what's in Tulsa, or who their target audience is.
One thing to note, the state income tax rate in Tulsa is 4.44%, so if your business makes $100,000 a year in profit, expect to pay around $4,500 in state taxes. I live in the great state of Tennessee with zero state income tax, and I'd much rather be in Nashville than Tulsa.
I was in Oklahoma for several years of my childhood. Would not recommend for anyone who isn’t a white Christian. Granted, I was in Stillwater, but OKC and Tulsa are only a little better.
This is very cool, great website too. I actually looked up Tulsa while reading this. Well done. When I search Tulsa in Google maps the default street view is a desert looking place though. I wonder if they could affect that.
you'd be real close to one of tulsa's best features: https://www.youtube.com/svseeker -- dude's building a giant scientific research boat in his front yard and will host just about anyone that wants to help him work on it. i've been out there twice and it's awesome!
They don't necessarily want more remote workers, they want to attract workers that already have out-of-state jobs so they can collect the easy income tax and income from you living there.
[+] [-] chrissnell|7 years ago|reply
People are super friendly and contrary to what so many of you mistakenly believe, not judgmental. Gay couples live openly and happpily here. I've never met a racist or seen anything racist; indeed, nearly half of the houses on my block here in the affluent side of town are either black or mixed-race families. Kids play in the streets together every day and they can walk to the bus stop without the parents worrying about an Uber driver running them over.
I hope that someone here takes Kaiser/Tulsa up on their offer and reports back. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
[+] [-] komali2|7 years ago|reply
It's not fair to apply that stereotype to Tulsa without going there and checking it out, but I think it's a reasonable concern.
[+] [-] Twirrim|7 years ago|reply
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oklahoma
Those aren't great incentives for people with families to want to move. Might be more tolerable for younger folks?Of course, getting fresh tax revenue etc may be important towards getting those various things improved, and Tulsa might be significantly better than the rest of the state.
[+] [-] davidw|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] damon_c|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nwatson|7 years ago|reply
If Oklahoma / Tulsa BBQ is in the top-3 that might make up for a few of the deficits.
[+] [-] legohead|7 years ago|reply
If you're religious, right-wing, and don't care about having outing options, then Oklahoma is the place for you.
[+] [-] romed|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Finbarr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skrebbel|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] atomical|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] S_A_P|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joeax|7 years ago|reply
I'm curious if others in the tech crowd are considering the same. If you are please post your story. It would be encouraging to see other interested this offer. Heck we could be neighbors.
[+] [-] ramanujank|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yardie|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] itomato|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Bjorkbat|7 years ago|reply
Financial relocation incentives don't appear to be anything new, but the alternatives never seemed to ring any bells for me. Hard to pin down precisely, but I think part of it was the fact that a lot of them were asking you to settle down in what might as well be the frontier in terms of urban density and amenities, or maybe the city in question was a burnt-out husk of its former self (a different kind of frontier almost), or maybe the incentive wasn't so much cash as much as loan assistance or some other thing that doesn't sound as sexy.
Looking at the website, pretty obvious that they're not asking me to settle in a small town or a burnt-out husk of a city. Despite my biases against Oklahoma, I get the sense that this is a pretty exciting place to be. On top of that, the incentives actually seem very practical. It's cash, plain and simple.
I like it, if you couldn't already tell.
[+] [-] zumu|7 years ago|reply
> Looking at the website, pretty obvious that they're not asking me to settle in a small town or a burnt-out husk of a city.
In reality Tulsa is somewhere in between a "small town" and a "burnt out husk of city".
> Despite my biases against Oklahoma, I get the sense that this is a pretty exciting place to be.
It is not.
Its main benefits are being cheap and not super cold.
[+] [-] knightswhosayni|7 years ago|reply
Just because this website says it is exciting doesn't mean it is. They are throwing money at the issue of a brain drain and lagging economy.
Tons of people who "went to school in Tulsa" don't live there now because it is the opposite of exciting.
[+] [-] stcredzero|7 years ago|reply
As a joke, I'd say that the actual choice is between a less populated burnt-out husk of its former self, a heavily populated burnt-out husk of its former self, or some degree of truly nowhere.
[+] [-] almost_usual|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] itronitron|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0xffff2|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ethagknight|7 years ago|reply
I visited Tulsa a few months ago to just check it out. I enjoyed it greatly. The Tulsa Gathering Place is absolutely unreal for a free public park. There is enough going on there to make it a worthwhile place to move to for a few years. A considerable amount of very high end architecture and art there.
I am doing a multifamily development with similar (not nearly as generous) relocation incentives tied in through a medical district. Very interesting way to move the needle and encourage shifts in living. For most cities, this is a much cheaper way to approach affordable housing as well.
[+] [-] Cambridge_Man|7 years ago|reply
Two students in my graduation class got accepted to Harvard, and others to MIT, U Penn, and Duke. They have gone on to become successful tech entrepreneurs and professors. The graduating class after my year had 4 students accepted to Stanford.
Non est ratio ad gustum ... Über Geschmack lässt sich nicht streiten ... Les goûts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas ...
There is a reason why almost every language has an idiomatic expression to express the same idea.
Tulsa may be a great place for you, it may be a not so great place for you. But dismissing an idea based on no real experience and innate prejudices is pretty stupid.
[+] [-] TulliusCicero|7 years ago|reply
If there was an article about paying remote workers to move to SF, you'd get the exact same thing. I mean, obviously the specific complaints themselves would be different, but you'd still get the same rough tone and criticism.
[+] [-] matttproud|7 years ago|reply
I have a lot of fond memories of the place, but returning there after 25 years completely shattered my romantic childhood feelings. The city was not doing great when I lived there, but it felt far worse now (husk comment earlier). You want to know where MAGA came from? All you need to do was live in Tulsa 25 years ago and compare it to today: the rust and rot. The place is sprawling; you’ll need a car. Summer is oppressively humid against biking. It is far more diverse than it was, but I have doubts about the true level of comforts minorities (all stripes from ethnicity to political) feel. I felt somewhat insulated from religion with Unitarian parents, but the prevailing religion runs strong here. I don’t think they’d accept me if they really knew what I thought today. Infrastructure is laughably in poor shape. My father tells me corruption/nepotism/patronage still drives most appointments in OK civil service. I recall fondly of the — can’t believe I am saying this — sweet smell of crude oil refinement from West Tulsa that permeates the entire town and ambient sounds of the pump jacks (yes, sporadically in the neighborhood).
Food is certainly better than what it was. Folks in their early 20s seem to be pushing for more. I actually had a respectable bowl of ramen there. Growing up, there were two Chinese restaurants only. That tells you a lot!
I always appreciated how direct the people were — zero pretense or two-faced behavior. A lot of small talk. You’ll have to be OK with the provincialism. Miss the intense Thunderstorms a whole lot.
My parents were not especially political or conveying of class or social consciousness. I recall a few trips to Arkansas when I was young and crossing the border from OK into AR and wondering what the hell was wrong with that place. It seemed like that much of a step down.
Tulsa has — or had — it’s quirky charm. Everyone knows about the South Park episode about that Mexican restaurant Casa Bonita. Well, guess what, that one in Colorado it parodied is based on an original in Tulsa. Also: in that same strip mall (yep, you’ll love Tulsa if you love sprawling one-story drags of strip malls), there was Starbase 21, a store dedicated to Star Trek franchise paraphernalia, which I think closed recently (sadly). Let’s not forget the world’s largest McDonalds in Vinita that spanned an interstate. These days, the place feels dreadfully big-boxed.
I am a parent now. While nature access is OK (not great but not terrible), certainly faster to reach than in the Bay Area (sorry), I would be concerned with the schools. They have been starved to death and the school day largely cut to four days.
I realize this won’t satisfy anyone’s claims for empirical remarks, but it is just the perspective of someone who knew the place intimately and returned recently. My feelings are textured.
[+] [-] microcolonel|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] DoreenMichele|7 years ago|reply
I liked Oklahoma when I went through there. I spent a few years kind of wishing I could live in Oklahoma. I am a homebody who spends a lot of time online. I need a few decent places to eat and shop, but I can kind of make my own fun.
I mostly don't understand complaints that a city is "boring." I mean, if it has 500 people, okay, I can see that. I need a certain amount of city fabric. But I don't really get it when that gets said about big cities. Tulsa is 400k people.
[+] [-] prestonbriggs|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] byproxy|7 years ago|reply
Related to this, I wonder what the born&raised locals would think of this incentive. (gentrification?)
[+] [-] mrkurt|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dougmwne|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xvedejas|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jupiter90000|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aj7|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rmason|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Forge36|7 years ago|reply
I can see this remaining a quiet movement. If it's successful I can see states competing for people the same way they compete for tourism (or on the last page of the travel brochure: "You came, you saw. Want $10,000 and are willing to relocate? Call XXX")
[+] [-] Matthias247|7 years ago|reply
I would appreciate it if both things become a trend.
[+] [-] buboard|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] soared|7 years ago|reply
https://qz.com/work/1289727/vermont-will-pay-you-10000-to-mo...
[+] [-] ken|7 years ago|reply
What I see is ... a whole lot of drinking-related activities. "Experience" Oktoberfest, "Toast" at lots of bars, "Hang Out" at lots of other bars, "Brew" more beer. I wonder if this is more a reflection of what's in Tulsa, or who their target audience is.
[+] [-] dgllghr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nodesocket|7 years ago|reply
One thing to note, the state income tax rate in Tulsa is 4.44%, so if your business makes $100,000 a year in profit, expect to pay around $4,500 in state taxes. I live in the great state of Tennessee with zero state income tax, and I'd much rather be in Nashville than Tulsa.
[+] [-] magd|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] SteveNuts|7 years ago|reply