If true, this suggests that previous articles about assange being 'practically free to go', and 'just staying in the embassy for attention' were misinformed.
> If true, this suggests that previous articles about assange being 'practically free to go', and 'just staying in the embassy for attention' were misinformed.
But those were always false even considering only the overt facts, and without the US issuing an extradition request (which there is still no indication it has, though there is an administrative error that seems to indicate that there is a sealed indictment); depending on the point in his flight from criminal process you examine, he was always either going to face the Swedish extradition request and/or the British bail jumping charges once he wasn't shielded from British authorities.
Without any opinion the merits of this case in particular, which seems like a total mess all around and I haven't been following, on the topic more generally I found "Demystifying International Extradition" [1] last year to be an interesting summary of the process. It introduced me to concepts that don't really tend to come up in local law. Amongst other pertinent aspects is that while the US generally wants to avoid binding its own hands it can do so if another nation demands it when it comes to the penalties it will seek. Lots of countries (I think including England?) will not extradite if the death penalty is on the table, but the US can apparently legally assure that it won't seek it (for capital crimes).
Lot of political considerations and such in high profile cases I guess when it comes to agreements between nation-states. Everyone can be prickly about their prerogatives and who gets justice and what it means for relations and public opinion and so on. Nothing guaranteed about it.
Ironically, the UK doesn't allow extraordinary rendition, and it was a big deal to even let those planes refuel or use UK airspace, but Sweden historically has allowed it.
This has come up between the US and Canada. When the US seeks extradition for a capital crime, Canada nearly always asks for assurances that the US will not seek the death penalty.
Insisting on no death penalty is required by all countries that have banned the death penalty on human rights grounds, not just the UK but all of Europe and much of the world.
Mexico is the same way, they won’t extradite if the country is seeking for the death penalty. I wonder if there was a negotiation around that with El Chapo
Americans (and I sadly speak for all 300mm+ of us) no longer give a flying fuck about illegal wars or mass murder.
There is no peace movement, there won’t be ever again. Citizens will ignore the wars and entertain them selves by rage posting about either the red or blue team
As I understand, Assange is not an US citizen. How can they prosecute him?
Wikipedia page [1] says:
> Opinions of Assange at this time [2010] were divided. Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard described his activities as "illegal," but the police said that he had broken no Australian law. United States Vice President Joe Biden and others called him a "terrorist". Some called for his assassination or execution.
That's ridiculous. American soldiers killing civilians are "good guys", and Assange is a terrorist?
There are more egregious cases. Kim Dotcom has never been to the US, yet is somehow facing extradition to the US. None of these cases are about justice, it's more like bullying.
Citizenship isn't usually relevant to prosecution, unless it's for something like treason. The US prosecutes foreigners for hacking crimes committed outside of the country as well.
By doing this the US is coming to the aid of the many dictators and despots whose crimes Assange has helped reveal.
Also, by ignoring the crimes revealed by the Iraq and Afghanistan war logs, the US makes it very clear that war-making cronies rule both parties and would never hold each other accountable for anything.
To be clear, the war logs revealed that the US classified information solely because it revealed that the official narrative about why we were involved in those wars was false. Regardless of what one thinks about Assange, it's pretty hard to argue that the crimes revealed by the war logs aren't highly worrisome.
Regardless of how one feels about Assange, it's hard to deny that WL was the most successful attempt by any journalist to unmask the widespread US war crimes that we've seen in many decades.
My statement above may be too strong... so be it, but surely a court should have been able to decide the fate of the propagandists who misused their power to classify information from the American people. Instead the war criminals just attacked Assange and everyone else including most journalists do as they are asked and turned on a fellow journalist who was willing to sacrifice his freedom for the cause of truth.
While some of the things that were exposed were certainly illegal and should be handled as such, it's hard to feel any empathy for a guy who is essentially a Russian asset. If you think of him as an extension of Russian military intelligence conducting propaganda wars against its adversaries then it becomes a lot easier to understand why prosecuting him is a genuinely good thing. Russia airing the dirty laundry of others is good for Russia. Now, don't get me wrong... I'm not defending the dirty laundry I'm just saying that the intent behind the messenger in this situation is not at all altruistic.
People will upvote this comment and complain about the system being broken then turn around and ridicule anyone who votes third party or claims large media companies are corrupt.
whatever happened to don't shoot the messenger anyway? I could understand if stuff was faked for political purposes but as far as I know everything wikileaks has ever put out is verified as true. It amazes me how people would rather live in ignorance, or have been brainwashed to want to live like that
I hope and pray that some smart lawyers come to his defense in both in England, Ecuador, and the USA. I hope that "we" are collectively smart enough to support him (and Snowden). He is probably not a Russian agent... all of that talk is a distraction (especially with Mueller).. if Russia left him out to dry then they would seriously curtail their intelligence operations... after all memes and fake news are far more effective.
If he is a Russian agent, the Prisoners Dilemma applies: Will Trump pardon or will Russia declare? Russia has more to lose here. Maybe there is a way out for Russia and the US but I doubt it. This is actually an interesting case.. a 3 party prisoners dilemma.. any ideas?
One of my biggest regrets is not supporting Aaron.. at the time it would not have been much but maybe collectively and everyone together. Maybe we were too late to recognize that he was ahead of his time... and maybe we still are.
Why so? He has shown himself over time to be someone who has constantly reneged on his responsibilities, made obtuse efforts to be "understanding" when he has no standing ("offering" to be interviewed via video from the embassy - who else gets to decide how, when, where and if they are interviewed on criminal charges?), and shown himself to be entirely partisan in his motives when it comes down to it.
Why should "we" be "collectively supporting him", precisely?
1. WL disclosed information to US population.
2. WL is accused of being "Non-state Hostile Intelligence Service".
3. Hostile intelligence services work for enemies.
4. US population is the enemy.
Wikileaks believed at the time that Clinton was ready to send a drone to get rid of Assange. Between due process and a drone attack, I take due process any day.
What someone's motivation is (in relation to the still unsubstantiated allegation that Assange is a "Russian asset" trying advance Russian foreign policy objectives) should be completely irrelevant to the legality of an action.
Is publishing leaked documents protected under the First Amendment?
Is publishing "propaganda" protected under the First Amendment?
I would say the answer to both of these questions is yes.
I never thought it would happen. He always seemed to stay a few steps ahead and he has plenty of of supporters and many countries that are hostile the US were willing to grant him asylum. I'm not sure how this would work. He would have to be kidnapped or given up.
How do they plan to get him out of the embassy without violating the Vienna Convention? He's been amazingly... immature and disruptive... in the embassy, but has there ever in history been a case of a refugee being remanded to their oppressor because of how annoying they are? To be fair, Assange seems to be really annoying.
I can't read the article. Does it mention what charges might apply?
If he conspired with the hackers, I can see where criminal charges might come in. If he merely published documents afterwards, I'm not sure what they could charge him with.
Let's leave all the war criminals from Iraq so we have repeats in Libya and Syria. Let's forgot about the bankers and fraud. Let's not do anything about the NSA and liars like Clapper. Let's instead get Assange. This makes a lot of sense, but only if you are a pretend democracy.
That should read the US regime is preparing to 'persecute' Julian Assange and should be a reality check for anyone remotely concerned about democracy, free press and dissent.
Who are these people who are 'familiar with the matter'? Look at the people 'familiar with the matter' regarding the apple/et al spy chip story. How can we, as consumers of news, ever know if there is any kind of truth from these anonymous sources, or if they are just trying to nudge either public perception, or key players(wikileaks, ecuador, etc) in a certain way?
I just bough a Quanta LGA2011 board off ebay. In the BIOS PXE settings were IP's that belong to Amazon.
So I have to wonder if Amazon even used SuperMicro hardware.
I know with great certainty that they used Quanta as a board manufacturer.
So who planted this story is my question. Who would stand the most at bringing down SuperMicro.
I would rule out the Chinese because they were made to look bad.
So who else in the US manufactures motherboards and would benefit from SuperMicro's demise.
Did the same people also drive SuperMicro stock down to a point of it being delisted?
I hated seeing a "Designed in the USA" motherboard manufacturer dragged through the mud.
I have used their affordable dual CPU motherboards dating back to BX chipset.
Ultra-reliable and feature packed.
I even made some negative Supermicro comments at the time.
Amazing how easily even intelligent people can be brainwashed.
The problem with the story is that all of the accusations are technically feasible.
We know TAO does this from Edward Snowdens wonderful truthfulness.
So we all wanted to have an Ahh-Ha moment. Too bad we were duped.
There is a real, if small, chance that there could be a general election in the UK soon and potentially a more favourable labour government. If I were Assange I would do whatever I could to hang in there at least long enough to rule that possibility out.
[+] [-] coding123|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] londons_explore|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dragonwriter|7 years ago|reply
But those were always false even considering only the overt facts, and without the US issuing an extradition request (which there is still no indication it has, though there is an administrative error that seems to indicate that there is a sealed indictment); depending on the point in his flight from criminal process you examine, he was always either going to face the Swedish extradition request and/or the British bail jumping charges once he wasn't shielded from British authorities.
[+] [-] slededit|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foldr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matchagaucho|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nl|7 years ago|reply
Unclear what article you are referring to in the 'staying for attention' reference.
[+] [-] xoa|7 years ago|reply
Lot of political considerations and such in high profile cases I guess when it comes to agreements between nation-states. Everyone can be prickly about their prerogatives and who gets justice and what it means for relations and public opinion and so on. Nothing guaranteed about it.
----
1: https://www.arnoldporter.com/en/perspectives/publications/20...
[+] [-] monocasa|7 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition
Ironically, the UK doesn't allow extraordinary rendition, and it was a big deal to even let those planes refuel or use UK airspace, but Sweden historically has allowed it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an...
[+] [-] braythwayt|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] justincormack|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rem7|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anarazel|7 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/SeamusHughes/status/1063232297674162176
Which the WaPo just corroborated:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/julia...
[+] [-] anoncoward111|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] armenarmen|7 years ago|reply
There is no peace movement, there won’t be ever again. Citizens will ignore the wars and entertain them selves by rage posting about either the red or blue team
[+] [-] codedokode|7 years ago|reply
Wikipedia page [1] says:
> Opinions of Assange at this time [2010] were divided. Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard described his activities as "illegal," but the police said that he had broken no Australian law. United States Vice President Joe Biden and others called him a "terrorist". Some called for his assassination or execution.
That's ridiculous. American soldiers killing civilians are "good guys", and Assange is a terrorist?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange
[+] [-] Joakal|7 years ago|reply
Before the extradition, he had never set foot in USA before.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hew_Raymond_Griffiths
Labor/Liberal are USA stooges.
[+] [-] guitarbill|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lazyasciiart|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] raverbashing|7 years ago|reply
So if I go to any country I'm not a citizen of I'm free to commit crimes?
That's obviously not how it works. Not being a citizen is a nonissue
[+] [-] resters|7 years ago|reply
Also, by ignoring the crimes revealed by the Iraq and Afghanistan war logs, the US makes it very clear that war-making cronies rule both parties and would never hold each other accountable for anything.
To be clear, the war logs revealed that the US classified information solely because it revealed that the official narrative about why we were involved in those wars was false. Regardless of what one thinks about Assange, it's pretty hard to argue that the crimes revealed by the war logs aren't highly worrisome.
Regardless of how one feels about Assange, it's hard to deny that WL was the most successful attempt by any journalist to unmask the widespread US war crimes that we've seen in many decades.
My statement above may be too strong... so be it, but surely a court should have been able to decide the fate of the propagandists who misused their power to classify information from the American people. Instead the war criminals just attacked Assange and everyone else including most journalists do as they are asked and turned on a fellow journalist who was willing to sacrifice his freedom for the cause of truth.
[+] [-] hnmonkey|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] StavrosK|7 years ago|reply
I.e. themselves.
[+] [-] staplers|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foxylad|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wannabeeanon|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] uabstraction|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] oh-kumudo|7 years ago|reply
Well, Trump surely likes Xi/Kim the 3rd/Saudi Prince/Russia Czar dearly...
[+] [-] sjg007|7 years ago|reply
If he is a Russian agent, the Prisoners Dilemma applies: Will Trump pardon or will Russia declare? Russia has more to lose here. Maybe there is a way out for Russia and the US but I doubt it. This is actually an interesting case.. a 3 party prisoners dilemma.. any ideas?
One of my biggest regrets is not supporting Aaron.. at the time it would not have been much but maybe collectively and everyone together. Maybe we were too late to recognize that he was ahead of his time... and maybe we still are.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484
[+] [-] FireBeyond|7 years ago|reply
Why should "we" be "collectively supporting him", precisely?
[+] [-] 0x8BADF00D|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kuwze|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tempz|7 years ago|reply
1. WL disclosed information to US population. 2. WL is accused of being "Non-state Hostile Intelligence Service". 3. Hostile intelligence services work for enemies. 4. US population is the enemy.
[+] [-] Apocryphon|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eeks|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] visibly-visible|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryanlol|7 years ago|reply
That choice was beyond obvious.
[+] [-] a10022|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CryptoPunk|7 years ago|reply
Is publishing leaked documents protected under the First Amendment?
Is publishing "propaganda" protected under the First Amendment?
I would say the answer to both of these questions is yes.
[+] [-] paulpauper|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tootie|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scythe|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amanaplanacanal|7 years ago|reply
If he conspired with the hackers, I can see where criminal charges might come in. If he merely published documents afterwards, I'm not sure what they could charge him with.
[+] [-] throw2016|7 years ago|reply
That should read the US regime is preparing to 'persecute' Julian Assange and should be a reality check for anyone remotely concerned about democracy, free press and dissent.
[+] [-] parrellel|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oh_sigh|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] frankharv|7 years ago|reply
So I have to wonder if Amazon even used SuperMicro hardware. I know with great certainty that they used Quanta as a board manufacturer.
So who planted this story is my question. Who would stand the most at bringing down SuperMicro. I would rule out the Chinese because they were made to look bad.
So who else in the US manufactures motherboards and would benefit from SuperMicro's demise.
Did the same people also drive SuperMicro stock down to a point of it being delisted?
I hated seeing a "Designed in the USA" motherboard manufacturer dragged through the mud.
I have used their affordable dual CPU motherboards dating back to BX chipset. Ultra-reliable and feature packed.
I even made some negative Supermicro comments at the time. Amazing how easily even intelligent people can be brainwashed.
The problem with the story is that all of the accusations are technically feasible. We know TAO does this from Edward Snowdens wonderful truthfulness.
So we all wanted to have an Ahh-Ha moment. Too bad we were duped.
[+] [-] qume|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] liveoneggs|7 years ago|reply