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Bitcoin falls below $5,000

112 points| wil_I_am_27 | 7 years ago |bbc.com

163 comments

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[+] johnwheeler|7 years ago|reply
I wanted to get some bitcoin to buy some things off a website where bitcoin was the only thing accepted.

I was immediately turned off when a different, exchange website asked me to upload a photo of myself holding my driver's license in one hand and a paper with the name of the website and date in the other.

Just my experience. To me, it seemed like a joke.

[+] EliRivers|7 years ago|reply
I wanted to get some bitcoin to buy some things off a website where bitcoin was the only thing accepted.

I recall being asked by a keen young thing if his (completely legal) online business should take bitcoin only. I suggested that since he wanted people to give him their money, he needed to make it easier for people to give him their money; not harder. The website of which you speak, I can only imagine, didn't really want your business.

[+] cenal|7 years ago|reply
KYC is an awful thing for user experience.

Expect it moving forward.

[+] dawhizkid|7 years ago|reply
you're assuming that is the only way to buy bitcoin...when you use a site like coinbase you trade convenience for privacy. there are plenty of ways to receive and send bitcoin that don't require you to use or register an exchange wallet.
[+] the_clarence|7 years ago|reply
I honestly don’t know what to make of it. I’m surrounded by a lot of bankers, none of them believe in cryptocurrencies but all of them are focused on the price and have zero understanding of the technology. I’m also surrounded by a lot of blockchain people who are insanely hyped by the future of cryptocurrencies and who have little idea about their current prices.

Being in the middle I see 99% of bullshit blockchain stuff, but I’m really hyped by some cryptocurrencies and some of their tech. It is a really interesting field if you ignore the market, but there is also a lot to win/lose if you can predict where the tech will go.

Bankers and blockchain people are both the worst people to ask for an opinion. So I might be in the right position to make a guess.

There is value. This market might become as strong as the stock market is nowadays. As long as there is hype, there will continue to be a market. If it’s a scam/pyramid sheme/mlm, then it’s an international one and it’s probably not going to stop.

[+] buboard|7 years ago|reply
I 'm confused about the position of bankers. Our bank terminated our business account because they found out we ran a cryptocoin price aggregator (oh the horror!). I had to terminate the site (because it was making peanuts and i didn't have the time) to have the account reinstated but i didn't understand the hostility. And this came from a bank that in 2013 crashed and literally stole money from their customer's accounts. This weird situation actually made me a lot more optimistic about the future of crypto, because , you know, banks are thieves too.
[+] waynecochran|7 years ago|reply
The weird thing about it, as long as cryptocurrencies are volatile, folks are not going to buy/sell using them. Then what is the intrinsic value of it if no one buys/sells with them? Only value is speculation with nothing real supporting it. Bitcoin is not even shiny and pretty like Gold.
[+] mikenew|7 years ago|reply
When it comes to the general public adopting crypto as usable, cash replacement currency, I think there's two issues with adoption.

One is of course the network effect. I can't pay with (whatever)coin unless other people use it too. So unless I'm just really excited about crypto and want to pay with it, it's not very useful to me until more people start using it. And considering most of the crypt-hype has worn off, there's less and less people that are just dying to use it.

And the other is that people (and businesses) are not going to try things over and over until someone gets it right. Bitcoin is terrible as a currency. I tried paying a friend of mine for a sandwich once, just for fun, and it cost me $10 to send him $10, plus it took almost an hour. Of course it's less bad now, but it's still not great. Valve started accepting bitcion and later stopped. Lots of retailers did too. No one is going to jump on Bitcoin Cash or Monero or whatever, even if they're better, because they were burned pretty hard with Bitcoin.

Someone is going to have to genuinely nail it with a currency that is instant, costs almost nothing per transaction, is very easy to use, and they're going to have to make sure everyone knows it. And even then I think it's going to be uphill.

[+] buboard|7 years ago|reply
> No one is going to jump on Bitcoin Cash or Monero or whatever, even if they're better

I think they will, if it is better.

> going to have to genuinely nail it with a currency that is instant, costs almost nothing per transaction, is very easy to use,

There are such cryptos. stellar, nano and i m sure also others. And i think monero's anonymity promise is a big selling point too

[+] scj|7 years ago|reply
I think of it as the ice-cream currency test.

The transaction needs to occur before an ice-cream cone would melt, and it needs to cost less.

[+] dopamean|7 years ago|reply
$5000 still seems like an insane number for something that I have no idea how to judge the value of.
[+] nostrademons|7 years ago|reply
I felt the same about Facebook, and it's now worth $380B.
[+] Kaveren|7 years ago|reply
Amusing that the Bitcoin / Bitcoin Cash split is now even deeper with a split in Bitcoin Cash. Just keep on forking until everyone has their own cryptocurrency, I guess.

Aside from that, a point nobody seems to bring up is just how unproven most cryptocurrency technology is from a monetary safety standpoint.

It's not just about a 51% blockchain attack. In multiple cases of some of the most popular cryptocurrencies, we've seen danger [0] (these are not the only examples). Nobody talks about this though, so while you're worried about centralized banking, consider for a moment the threat of bad actors to the core of your system.

[0] https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/09/cryptocurrency-insecurity-...

Of course many fanatics (some of the same people who still treat John McAfee seriously) will blindly "hodl" by the logic that it's gone up after the post-2013 crash, it must surely skyrocket again. Some people can justify their belief, but many are just playing follow the leader.

[+] xiphias2|7 years ago|reply
Please don't confuse Bitcoin with any other cryptocurrency. Bitcoin Core is where developers who treat it responsibly as a multi-billion dollar system are concentrated. It's very hard to submit code to it for a reason (unlike ALL other crypto currencies so far). Just as an example Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency where you can see a page with all security vulnerabilities so far.
[+] nikk1|7 years ago|reply
The price of bitcoin is actually a pretty good metric to observe the Gartner hype cycle in action: from the rise, peak of inflated expectations, and slide into the through of disillusionment. I predict that in 2019 or 2020 the price of bitcoin will slowly begin to come back up once we hit the slope of enlightenment.
[+] scj|7 years ago|reply
That assumes Bitcoin is the ideal expression of the near-term cryptocoin. Perhaps Bitcoin will be surpassed for technical reasons to become "The Yahoo! of crypto-currencies" one day.

From a speculator's perspective, it'd probably be a riskier but more rewarding bet to make in the cryptocurrency space.

[+] yifanl|7 years ago|reply
"On Thursday, 15 November, Bitcoin Cash - an offshoot of Bitcoin - split into two different crypto-currencies, which are now in competition with each other"

Could someone explain why did Bitcoin Cash split again, were there technical reasons that couldn't be resolved by creating a new cryptocurrency?

edit: clarification

[+] dawhizkid|7 years ago|reply
By design the Bitcoin Cash network upgrades every 6 months. There were some proposed network upgrades that a certain influential mining group led by someone claiming to be the creator of Bitcoin disagreed with, and decided to band together with some other large miners to hard fork with their own protocol changes.

The changes were mostly around blocksize (the camp that disagreed wanted larger block sizes), how transactions are ordered in a block, and adding/removing certain functions.

[+] the_clarence|7 years ago|reply
It’s honestly probably not that interesting. Cryptocoins split all the time. Bitcoin has A dozen of forks, same for Ethereum, same for ...
[+] bwood|7 years ago|reply
The Bitcoin Cash folks didn't want to use a new cryptocurrency, they already had bitcoin and wanted to use it more like cash (i.e., low transaction fees). Basically, there was a large subset of Bitcoin users who did not agree with the development roadmap as set by the core Bitcoin developers. The core developers did not do enough to accommodate this subset of bitcoin users (there are technical reasons why they refused to do so, though their validity is debatable), so the codebase and blockchain were forked. It's a little confusing, but the most reasonable outcome since the community was at a political standstill for years and now both groups are free to do their own thing.
[+] nemothekid|7 years ago|reply
I _think_ the split came down to how to support the increasing rate of txn/s. The Bitcoin cash folks wanted to increase the "block size" which required a hard fork. The Bitcoin "board" wanted to implement a new "protocol" called lightning instead.
[+] johnwheeler|7 years ago|reply
So, it looks like this post got ripped off the front page.

Question: was the Bitcoin breaks $20000 post ripped off the front page last year?

[+] the_snooze|7 years ago|reply
I'm surprised it's that high, given that its biggest uses are just speculation, drugs, and ransomware.
[+] api|7 years ago|reply
I'm really shocked by the whole cryptocurrency experiment. We are now ten years in and it seems like literally nothing of value has come of it at all. Billions have been spent and we have absolutely nothing to show for it.

I've thought it was overvalued for a while but I still kept expecting the whole ecosystem to create something I or someone else might find useful in the real world. I've waited and waited and waited but no. Teams of brilliant people, tons of money, and nothing!

It started as a sort of crypto-libertarian critique of financial capitalism, but then it seems to have evolved rapidly into a "reductio ad absurdium" parody of financial capitalism.

Among other things I think this experiment proves that the excesses and absurdities of financial capitalism are not a technical problem. They are a social and political problem. The instant cryptocurrency got legs it became yet another speculative casino just like the rest of the financial system.

Edit: so prove me wrong. Does anyone actually use a cryptocurrency based system for anything other than cryptocurrency itself, speculation, or gambling?

[+] joefourier|7 years ago|reply
There are a number of real-world applications to which cryptocurrency has been proven to be useful outside of gambling and financial speculation, such as darknet markets, ransomware, donations to blacklisted organisations, paying international contractors sotto banco, transporting money illegally across borders... While you may notice a common pattern in their legality or lack thereof, they certainly have real needs that are fulfilled by cryptocurrency.
[+] 0x8BADF00D|7 years ago|reply
I don’t think mining will be profitable anymore at a certain point. As soon as mining becomes unprofitable, there will be a death spiral for the price of Bitcoin.
[+] newnewpdro|7 years ago|reply
When miners leave the network the difficulty drops automatically keeping it profitable for those who remain.
[+] jgladch|7 years ago|reply
There will be a whole spectrum of cryptos with different advantages over one another... like there already is.
[+] buboard|7 years ago|reply
This is good news, very good. I hope it psychologically affects people and that it lasts long enough that people will stop focusing on speculation and pumps, and instead focus on adoption and expansion.
[+] forthefuture|7 years ago|reply
I’d go even further: I hope it keeps falling until a better crypto currency is worth more. Bitcoin even existing proves the market is more speculative than functional.
[+] dajohnson89|7 years ago|reply
What's the momentum for adoption in places like venezuela?
[+] asdff|7 years ago|reply
Nowhere to be found. I kid you not, the government tried to start a nationalized crypto. Many are just using other currencies like the Colombian peso.
[+] newnewpdro|7 years ago|reply
There's a lot of posts here questioning the utility of cryptocurrency when we already have cash. I sometimes ask myself the same question, as none of my day-to-day transactions would benefit from cryptocurrency (or even offer it as an option). But I'm a cantankerous old man who just goes to the grocery store and gas station, not some malleable young whipper-snapper shaping the future, for better or worse, with what I participate in.

However, I recently listened to a Reply-All episode [1] where a young girl casually received $100 in bitcoin from an anonymous individual mid-episode, a sort of restitution for having her account stolen, while corresponding with the thief on discord.

It took practically no time, and gave me some pause to consider how this might be a glimpse of the future. The exchange could have been done through PayPal or something else with less anonymity, but it wasn't, they used bitcoin. Perhaps it was staged, perhaps she was primed to have a coinbase account already by the show hosts knowing this would happen, I don't know. If it was an authentically candid situation, it would be somewhat remarkable that she was already prepared to accept the payment with zero friction other than asking "It's super long, right?" when asked for her bitcoin address.

So clearly there's already utility/convenience for some people today, and the fact that this group includes youngsters could mean it's just be a matter of their becoming mature adults continuing to use cryptocurrency before it takes over in a big way.

Here's the excerpt from the transcript for the curious and lazy:

----8<----8<----8<----8<-----

ALEX: And then (clears throat) he was like, “Look, do you have a bitcoin account?” And she was like, “Yeah.”

KEVIN: I sold the Snapchat for 100 so I’ll just send that directly back to you. So um, you can do whatever you want with that since it is rightfully yours.

ALEX: Lizzie, do you have your Bitcoin account number handy?

LIZZIE: Yeah.

ALEX: Do you want to drop it into–

KEVIN: Yeah, let me–

LIZZIE: It’s super long, right?

KEVIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah no. Post it. Yeah, yeah. It starts, uh, it’s usually with a three. You have coinbase, right?

LIZZIE: Yeah.

KEVIN: Yeah, let me boot up my ledger. Okay. [typing] Alright I sent it.

LIZZIE: Yup.

KEVIN: Got it?

LIZZIE: Yeah, thank you.

KEVIN: Cool. Yeah, of course. Yeah you can do whatever you want with that. If you wanted to donate it, go for it. And if you want to keep it and buy groceries go for it.

LIZZIE: Awesome.

----8<----8<----8<----8<-----

[1] https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/130-lizard

[1.mp3] https://traffic.megaphone.fm/GLT8967905844.mp3?updated=15416...

[+] mxschumacher|7 years ago|reply
something that I think is commonly misunderstood about Bitcoin is that something can bring a lot of value, without being valuable in a market capitalisation sense. Think Wikipedia and Linux.
[+] rustcharm|7 years ago|reply
Shouldn't all the True Believers be mortgaging and leveraging everything and going all in?
[+] pamflemington|7 years ago|reply
Well the funny thing about the True Believers is that their numbers are strangely correlated to the price of bitcoin.