Sometimes I feel that it can be a lucrative trap to become invested in a single person, and then accumulate expectations that far outweigh the responsible obligations of any friendship.
As I have gotten older, a pattern that is working much better for me is the campfire model - I just try to keep a metaphorical campfire going, for people traveling through this life to stop and warm themselves upon while I tend it. I cannot know which direction people are traveling from, or to, or how long their journey has been or will be. But all people need to warm their calloused hands and feet, and I can keep this fire with a bed of rosy coals.
Sometimes someone will stop at my fire and warm themselves without my ever having paid attention, but to them it may have meant all the difference in the world. By keeping this obligation in mind, to simply expect people to need a place to sit a spell, I can at least believe I am helping.
The campfire is a nice way for me to remember we're all suffering, that not a one of us is unique to loneliness. Because sometimes that person who sits down at your fire is the person you have been waiting for, and only by making a seat for them were you able to ever meet.
The skeptic in me is very wary of romanticizing the campfire model. For me it has generated a lot of short term happiness but very few lasting, deeply committed relationships. And if you look at human history, this model is the exception, not the norm; virtually all civilizations across time have relied primarily on enduring family networks for support. In the past couple hundred years workplace and university networks have become sources of enduring relationships as well. We have good reasons to believe that these relationships are important to health, longevity and happiness.
I would not hesitate to start a campfire and see what it yields but I also wouldn't expect it to yield what truly matters.
The modern (western) world provides very little bedrock for people to build a psychological foundation. We argue with our families, our employers can dump us at any time, we divorce our spouses, friends are always moving on or marrying off. Contrast that to the model of multi-generational family based ties which has endured throughout history and I have to wonder, is our society even going to last in its current form?
> Sometimes I feel that it can be a lucrative trap to become invested in a single person, and then accumulate expectations that far outweigh the responsible obligations of any friendship.
This fixation on the spouse is kind of a modern oddity as well. In many societies past and present, your spouse, your parents, your kids, and maybe even your grandparents and grandkids are all of roughly equal importance.
Could you elaborate more concretely about this campfire model?
edit: Asking because I'm having a hard time visualizing the metaphor applied to reality. Do you find/make friends ("campers"?) differently? Would they consider you a friend, or are these relationships more broad with less depth? How does maintaining the fire relate to maintaining friendships? Are you just a support person handing out favors with little expectation of reciprocity? If so does that feel fulfilling compared to deeply investing in a smaller number of people?
This is a very selfless way of living, and for that you have my respect. But the chief cause of loneliness for many people is the fear that the person they were waiting for will never come:
There is a fire which burns inside me, but no-one stays 'round long enough to warm themselves.
Knowing this, if you can truly remain steadfast in your positive outlook on life, then you have achieved true strength. Hard to do in an oversocialized world.
Having once experienced true deep friendship, like everything, it sets your standard perhaps irrevocably too high.
I've found the campfire model to produce a lot of mental distress and anguish, since no one is invested in anyone, there's no incentive to grow and as time passes, you start viewing these passing relationships as disposable.
Don't get me wrong, the campfire model is fine as an aspect of general hospitality, but to truly call these passersby your friends would not be correct. They don't contribute to your safety net, nor are you likely in turn to contribute to theirs.
Perhaps I'm not as selfless as you. I just want to be surrounded by people who have "skin in the game", because true friendship and a sense of camaraderie is only built through overcoming difficulties together.
> Because sometimes that person who sits down at your fire is the person you have been waiting for, and only by making a seat for them were you able to ever meet
It's a nice analogy, but a little too romanticized for me.
This is probably the most beautiful thing I've read on HN.
> Sometimes I feel that it can be a lucrative trap to become invested in a single person, and then accumulate expectations that far outweigh the responsible obligations of any friendship.
It's taken me a long time to realise that relationships are not symmetrical, and that they aren't supposed to be.
There are people who I feel very strongly towards (not necessarily romantically) who don't feel the same way back to me, and I'm certain that there are people who feel the same way towards me.
Relationships are also not permanent. People come in to your life, and sometimes fade from your life. This isn't a bad thing either, but just a reality. There are a lot of people who I was good friends with who I'm not really in contact with any more (generally because I moved to a different city/country or they did). We all have our own journey in life which intersects with others. Sometimes we run straight past each other and sometimes we run parallel for a while.
The quality of a relationship isn't measured in time. Some of the most genuine and meaningful interactions I've had have been with people I met only for a few days or even a few hours.
> Sometimes I feel that it can be a lucrative trap to become invested in a single person, and then accumulate expectations that far outweigh the responsible obligations of any friendship.
I don't meen this cynically, but isn't this the entire idea behind modern marriage. (Of course marriage adds an expectation of reciprocity, which is what keeps us from viewing it as exploitative; and an expectation of exclusivity, which seems orthogonal)
I like this idea a lot. It goes away from the regular though that you get a friend that is forever that is there for you for good and bad, and puts you into the driver seat. I also liked that it is in general a framework for being a good person.
Where did you learn this? My Google search didn't get that far
An anecdote supporting your first point: I became very close friends with a a guy about my age when I started college. We had lots of awesome adventures, moved in together, and lasted about 7 years together. Eventually I got a job that required me to move away. I started making great money and my life was changing. After only a few years I quit the job and moved back home to be closer to my family and friends, specially this guy.
I seem to have forgotten the nasty, irrational and mean-spirited aspects of his personality. When I returned, I was reminded that our friendship and fun time was also dependant on his reckless and insensitive behavior, of which I've always resented, and tried to shed from my own life over the years.
Now that I'm back home, I'm remembering his full personality, and realizing what a chore it was putting up with sometimes.
Reminded of this bit from Carl Rogers’ “A Way of Being”.
“People are just as wonderful as sunsets if you let them be. When I look at a sunset, I don't find myself saying, "Soften the orange a bit on the right hand corner." I don't try to control a sunset. I watch with awe as it unfolds.”
thank you for writing this. It makes me reflect. As I grow older, I realize more and more than connections in life come and go. Life is really a passing of many different people in your story. Some will stay for very long while some will only be there for a short bit of time.
I don't have any critique or anything to add. I just want to say that this resonates with me very deeply.
I'm very happy to have this complex feeling articulated in such a beautiful way.
> Sometimes I feel that it can be a lucrative trap to become invested in a single person, and then accumulate expectations that far outweigh the responsible obligations of any friendship.
Lately I feel like this about traditional romantic relationships as well. After a while many people start developing expectations of the other person and assume that they will or can meet all of your needs, when that's actually pretty unrealistic. I was in a six year relationship when I noticed that my partner wasn't meeting my needs anymore, and that my expectations of him which had grown over the years weren't really aligned with a healthy reality; this applied the other way around as well in terms of my partner's expectations of me as a person who's changed over the years. I recently left the relationship and am now re-examining my own outlook on the traditional relationship models.
Someone called this selfless but I see a very strong selfishness in this approach, sure you're at the center of your life but if we all stand by our own fires, nobody meets anybody and it is important to recognize when you go sit by someone else's fire because that part is dearly missing from your description.
On the days that weigh us down, we can remember our meetings (however brief) with people who are open and/or kind and/or thoughtful - as well as those who responded to a dilemma with a helpful solution and without expectations of gain.
Calling such meetings 'mere romanticism' is to be blind to the fact that there is much about the world that we cannot comprehend. Sometimes coincidences pile up far beyond what the numbers declare possible. It's all lost on those who scoff ... and they may indeed die unnoticed.
My mom (who lives alone and is approaching 80) and I have an agreement: she emails me every morning with "hey" in the subject and no body if she doesn't feel like it. If I don't get an email, I call.
Since we started doing this (years), I feel more connected to her, and we often have conversations that last a while. I can't remember the last time I got a blank email.
I make it a point to call my mom on my 15 minute drive home instead of popping on another podcast. After my father passed, it took me a few years to reflect on the loneliness that she could be feeling. She looks forwards to these calls and I know that they provide a good connection for both of us.
I am considering getting her an apple watch in the next year or two for the emergency call features and fall detection.
Sounds like a good agreement and happy that it works out for you. I seem to remain childless and worry sometimes for the time I am in your mother's age
I don't think it's the "notice" part here. It's the "caring" part. To know that if something happens to you all your relatives and friends won't care or feel anything for losing you is the part that hurts, as for noticing. For sure they'll notice.
I'm positive if I died no one would notice for at least 2-3 months, maybe more
I live abroad. I have no truly close friends. The closest friend has 2 kids so I see him maybe once every 2 months. My family is 7000+ miles away. I talk to them about once every 3-8 months. The biggest issue is the time difference. Those times when I think "I feel like calling" it's always the wrong time so it's usually only when I'm up at 3am and instead of going to sleep I tell myself "Ok, I guess I should stay up another hour to call".
I'm self employed. 80% of my expenses are automated. (should be 100% really)
So, if I died a couple of friends might think I was rude for not answering their messages on slack or fb messenger but it would be quite a while before someone came and checked. Unless there was a smell or something coming from the apartment there really is no one I can think of that would check up on me.
Yes, I want to fix this situation. Stupidly I don't know how. I'm > 50yrs old. When I go out most people are < 40yrs old. Of course we get along but being in different places in your life can make it hard to relate the same way that people in the same place in life relate. I go to meetups and know a few people's names but haven't made any "friends".
Loneliness is usually presented as a matching or communication problem: if only all the lonely people could find each other, and had the social skills to initiate contact, all would be well.
But what if it’s deeper than that? Could we be losing the life/personality traits that make people interested in us? Overstimulated by other sources so that friendships with ordinary people are not interesting uses of time?
For example, just because you yourself are overweight, does not mean you will be attracted to other overweight people. So we should expect a decline in sexual relationships as the prevalence of obesity rises.
> if only all the lonely people could find each other, and had the social skills to initiate contact, all would be well.
I'd say I have very good social skills, never have a problem getting to know people when I take the time. The problem is I'm simultaneously a bit lonely (not a desperation level though) - but also not interested (in meeting people). It's really weird. Note that the "not interested" does not come from a(ny) level of depression, there is none (I know because I used to have a noticeable level of it many years ago, so I know how it feels to be incapacitated by even a small bit of that affliction). I just don't find most people interesting enough. That's not a "looking down" kind of feeling, but merely a mismatch.
A big part of it is the way we all live our lives though, I think. I want (a larger) community and cannot find or even see it, no so much "the one" friendship, or even "just friends". Having superficial talks now and then just isn't enough for me, I'm looking for a larger purpose.
Currently, I have a friend (and in addition family & romantic relationships, a small number, maybe a total of 5 people I really care about). These "inner circle" relationships are the best use of my time I have ever found. However I have basically no interest in the "get to know you" small talk people engage in at parties or hobby groups. I don't like pretending or seeing other people pretend, so I never manage to actually make friends the normal way. All my platonic friends have come to me during a time of crisis where they were somewhat vulnerable and I was somewhat restless and it causes a sort of break where all kinds of things not normally allowed by polite society become possible, and that makes them interesting to me and they become my friend. (This is not a problem with family relationships because all families have dysfunction, and it's not a problem with romantic relationships because sex is great at generating intimacy and letting people off their masks.)
Is there a way to meet people (that doesn't involve sex, drugs or joining the army) where you can find out essential things about what they fear, want, etc in 1-5 encounters or do you have to put up with months of pointless lying if you want friends?
> So we should expect a decline in sexual relationships as the prevalence of obesity rises.
I don't have the numbers at hand, but AFAIK it's the case. People on average have less and less sexual relations, despite the so-called "hookup culture". Not sure it's a causality link, though.
Sure. I mean maybe a few people actually care.. your parents, siblings and family, maybe your colleagues if you are lucky. All real estate is local as is anything that happens to you. Look at how we as a society treat the least able, the poor and the homeless. It's no wonder that the lonely don't expect any help because we as a society expect someone to reach out by definition. We are too busy doing nothing to help anyone else outside of our small circle.
Is there anyone that suffered a sort of midlife crisis after university? I fortunately have a job as a developer doing what I set out, but find I'm lacking the social connections I once had, especially since moving to a new city with few connections, the ones which I have already I'm fortunate to have, but still the feeling of loneliness creeps into me when I feel like I have no excuse to me. I think I'm lacking the deep relationship where I can open up to someone about how I really feel, rather than the usual conversation of what I _think_. (overthinking infact being a reoccurring problem)
I'm not especially a lonely person, I have a job, I have hobbies almost every day of the week, but I live alone and sometimes wonder how long it would take for people to notice "hey, this is really strange, anybody got news?" if I had an accident.
we are living in a time that without noticing it we are focusing on the quantity, not the quality of our connections. how can we shift our thoughts and senses to the latter?
As I read the article, I was most puzzled as to how people could possibly be afraid of such a trifle as loneliness.
The answer is in the buried-lead at the end:
>According to the Campaign To End Loneliness, loneliness has been found to speed up cognitive decline in older people, with one study concluding that it can increase your risk of developing clinical dementia by 64 per cent.
>Increasing the risk of high blood pressure, coronary heart disease and stroke, as well as disability, loneliness has also been found to increase your risk of dying early by 26 per cent - that's as much as obesity and smoking.
> So this isn't just a social problem - it's a potential health crisis.
This results in the question: how can we re-engineer humanity so that our 22nd-century cousins' physical health isn't dependent on, well, dealing with people?
(On second thought, it maybe doesn't result in that question after all: because nobody alive today could actually benefit from such an effort.)
To all those that identify with feeling this way... Remember that it's statistically impossible that no one will notice. For better or worse, at least the mailperson will notice eventually.
That isn't so much your absence being noticed/cared about directly, though, as it is that your lack of carrying-out some expected duty of yours is impugning upon someone else's duties.
I don't find it very cheering to think that I'd only be discovered dead in my home because someone got angry that they couldn't fit any more mail in my mailbox, and complained to their manager about it. (Or because someone got grossed out by the scent of decay coming from my apartment, or because I never paid my bills and the repossessors attempted to visit me, etc.)
It's quite different in kind from even the most casual positive memory, e.g. a barista who makes note of the fact that a customer who they used to see every day at 3PM, isn't coming in any more.
A man I worked with many years ago died at some time after I had left the project. He did not come in to work, and did not answer his phone. After his family in another state had been unable to reach him for some time, they prodded the employer a bit. The project manager checked and found that the man had found dead on the street not far from his apartment. Since his wallet had been stolen, the police could not identify him, and the body was held as a John Doe at the morgue.
So yes, the county police noticed at once that the man was dead, the employer almost at once that the man was missing or at least incommunicado; but putting the information together was the problem.
When we say "no one will notice", we mean that they won't care, that they won't have to substantially alter their way of life, or even their routine to accommodate one's death.
It was a shock to me, some years ago, on leaving an office job to start a new business: I had a group of what I considered good friends, we spoke on many topics, shared lunches nearly every day, went out socially on occasions. Not one of them dropped in to my new work to see how I was getting on [the reverse was impossible, it was a closed site].
They noticed I wasn't there, but it clearly made no substantial difference to them.
Very few of us will leave a legacy that impacts beyond immediate family and friends, I think for those of us in that boat we have to come to terms with it and not let that thought cloud our enjoyment of the time we do have.
With 8 billion people the memory of good deeds quickly gets lost in the melee of daily life.
I'm not sure that level of "notice" gives such folks much comfort.
Decades ago I knew someone nearly homeless living in a downtown Chicago dive hotel, the kind of place you turned the bathroom light on just so the roaches would scatter before walking to the toilet.
They talked about the hotel management giving the younger and destitute tenants free months of stay in return for getting rid of the bodies and possessions of elderly tenants when they passed away.
Apparently it was somewhat common for poor elderly folks, alone in the world, to move into the hotel and have their government aid checks cashed for them by the hotel management.
By making them disappear after dying, the hotel continued to (illegally) collect the checks.
"For years, the payments went out of the woman's bank account. Nobody batted an eyelid. Bills were paid. And life went on as normal in the quiet neighborhood of Pontiac, Michigan. Neighbors didn't notice anything unusual. The woman traveled a lot, they said, and kept to herself. One of them mowed her grass to keep things looking tidy.
At some point, her bank account ran dry."
Your logic counters my observations during 2 years underemployer, 52 weeks unemployed, and 25 weeks homeless... after 15+ years in good standing with the professional world (aka. with things people envied).
That's not the point though, noticing here means caring, not merely being aware of.
Not to mention tons of people have been found after weeks or months being dead without anybody noticing, so "the mailperson will notice eventually" is hardly a comfort.
[+] [-] digitalsushi|7 years ago|reply
As I have gotten older, a pattern that is working much better for me is the campfire model - I just try to keep a metaphorical campfire going, for people traveling through this life to stop and warm themselves upon while I tend it. I cannot know which direction people are traveling from, or to, or how long their journey has been or will be. But all people need to warm their calloused hands and feet, and I can keep this fire with a bed of rosy coals.
Sometimes someone will stop at my fire and warm themselves without my ever having paid attention, but to them it may have meant all the difference in the world. By keeping this obligation in mind, to simply expect people to need a place to sit a spell, I can at least believe I am helping.
The campfire is a nice way for me to remember we're all suffering, that not a one of us is unique to loneliness. Because sometimes that person who sits down at your fire is the person you have been waiting for, and only by making a seat for them were you able to ever meet.
[+] [-] apatters|7 years ago|reply
I would not hesitate to start a campfire and see what it yields but I also wouldn't expect it to yield what truly matters.
The modern (western) world provides very little bedrock for people to build a psychological foundation. We argue with our families, our employers can dump us at any time, we divorce our spouses, friends are always moving on or marrying off. Contrast that to the model of multi-generational family based ties which has endured throughout history and I have to wonder, is our society even going to last in its current form?
> Sometimes I feel that it can be a lucrative trap to become invested in a single person, and then accumulate expectations that far outweigh the responsible obligations of any friendship.
This fixation on the spouse is kind of a modern oddity as well. In many societies past and present, your spouse, your parents, your kids, and maybe even your grandparents and grandkids are all of roughly equal importance.
[+] [-] waffle_ss|7 years ago|reply
edit: Asking because I'm having a hard time visualizing the metaphor applied to reality. Do you find/make friends ("campers"?) differently? Would they consider you a friend, or are these relationships more broad with less depth? How does maintaining the fire relate to maintaining friendships? Are you just a support person handing out favors with little expectation of reciprocity? If so does that feel fulfilling compared to deeply investing in a smaller number of people?
[+] [-] hnphillipj|7 years ago|reply
There is a fire which burns inside me, but no-one stays 'round long enough to warm themselves.
Knowing this, if you can truly remain steadfast in your positive outlook on life, then you have achieved true strength. Hard to do in an oversocialized world.
[+] [-] FiatLuxDave|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] antisthenes|7 years ago|reply
I've found the campfire model to produce a lot of mental distress and anguish, since no one is invested in anyone, there's no incentive to grow and as time passes, you start viewing these passing relationships as disposable.
Don't get me wrong, the campfire model is fine as an aspect of general hospitality, but to truly call these passersby your friends would not be correct. They don't contribute to your safety net, nor are you likely in turn to contribute to theirs.
Perhaps I'm not as selfless as you. I just want to be surrounded by people who have "skin in the game", because true friendship and a sense of camaraderie is only built through overcoming difficulties together.
> Because sometimes that person who sits down at your fire is the person you have been waiting for, and only by making a seat for them were you able to ever meet
It's a nice analogy, but a little too romanticized for me.
[+] [-] toomanybeersies|7 years ago|reply
> Sometimes I feel that it can be a lucrative trap to become invested in a single person, and then accumulate expectations that far outweigh the responsible obligations of any friendship.
It's taken me a long time to realise that relationships are not symmetrical, and that they aren't supposed to be.
There are people who I feel very strongly towards (not necessarily romantically) who don't feel the same way back to me, and I'm certain that there are people who feel the same way towards me.
Relationships are also not permanent. People come in to your life, and sometimes fade from your life. This isn't a bad thing either, but just a reality. There are a lot of people who I was good friends with who I'm not really in contact with any more (generally because I moved to a different city/country or they did). We all have our own journey in life which intersects with others. Sometimes we run straight past each other and sometimes we run parallel for a while.
The quality of a relationship isn't measured in time. Some of the most genuine and meaningful interactions I've had have been with people I met only for a few days or even a few hours.
[+] [-] gizmo686|7 years ago|reply
I don't meen this cynically, but isn't this the entire idea behind modern marriage. (Of course marriage adds an expectation of reciprocity, which is what keeps us from viewing it as exploitative; and an expectation of exclusivity, which seems orthogonal)
[+] [-] ricardo_ramirez|7 years ago|reply
Where did you learn this? My Google search didn't get that far
[+] [-] dgzl|7 years ago|reply
I seem to have forgotten the nasty, irrational and mean-spirited aspects of his personality. When I returned, I was reminded that our friendship and fun time was also dependant on his reckless and insensitive behavior, of which I've always resented, and tried to shed from my own life over the years.
Now that I'm back home, I'm remembering his full personality, and realizing what a chore it was putting up with sometimes.
[+] [-] glennericksen|7 years ago|reply
“People are just as wonderful as sunsets if you let them be. When I look at a sunset, I don't find myself saying, "Soften the orange a bit on the right hand corner." I don't try to control a sunset. I watch with awe as it unfolds.”
[+] [-] parf02|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stopyellingatme|7 years ago|reply
Thank you for sharing.
[+] [-] drakonka|7 years ago|reply
Lately I feel like this about traditional romantic relationships as well. After a while many people start developing expectations of the other person and assume that they will or can meet all of your needs, when that's actually pretty unrealistic. I was in a six year relationship when I noticed that my partner wasn't meeting my needs anymore, and that my expectations of him which had grown over the years weren't really aligned with a healthy reality; this applied the other way around as well in terms of my partner's expectations of me as a person who's changed over the years. I recently left the relationship and am now re-examining my own outlook on the traditional relationship models.
[+] [-] raws|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 8bitsrule|7 years ago|reply
On the days that weigh us down, we can remember our meetings (however brief) with people who are open and/or kind and/or thoughtful - as well as those who responded to a dilemma with a helpful solution and without expectations of gain.
Calling such meetings 'mere romanticism' is to be blind to the fact that there is much about the world that we cannot comprehend. Sometimes coincidences pile up far beyond what the numbers declare possible. It's all lost on those who scoff ... and they may indeed die unnoticed.
[+] [-] e40|7 years ago|reply
Since we started doing this (years), I feel more connected to her, and we often have conversations that last a while. I can't remember the last time I got a blank email.
[+] [-] nickthegreek|7 years ago|reply
I am considering getting her an apple watch in the next year or two for the emergency call features and fall detection.
[+] [-] mongol|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxxxxx|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agumonkey|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kiloreux|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] uberlonely|7 years ago|reply
I live abroad. I have no truly close friends. The closest friend has 2 kids so I see him maybe once every 2 months. My family is 7000+ miles away. I talk to them about once every 3-8 months. The biggest issue is the time difference. Those times when I think "I feel like calling" it's always the wrong time so it's usually only when I'm up at 3am and instead of going to sleep I tell myself "Ok, I guess I should stay up another hour to call".
I'm self employed. 80% of my expenses are automated. (should be 100% really)
So, if I died a couple of friends might think I was rude for not answering their messages on slack or fb messenger but it would be quite a while before someone came and checked. Unless there was a smell or something coming from the apartment there really is no one I can think of that would check up on me.
Yes, I want to fix this situation. Stupidly I don't know how. I'm > 50yrs old. When I go out most people are < 40yrs old. Of course we get along but being in different places in your life can make it hard to relate the same way that people in the same place in life relate. I go to meetups and know a few people's names but haven't made any "friends".
[+] [-] closeparen|7 years ago|reply
But what if it’s deeper than that? Could we be losing the life/personality traits that make people interested in us? Overstimulated by other sources so that friendships with ordinary people are not interesting uses of time?
For example, just because you yourself are overweight, does not mean you will be attracted to other overweight people. So we should expect a decline in sexual relationships as the prevalence of obesity rises.
[+] [-] ThrowMeDown01|7 years ago|reply
I'd say I have very good social skills, never have a problem getting to know people when I take the time. The problem is I'm simultaneously a bit lonely (not a desperation level though) - but also not interested (in meeting people). It's really weird. Note that the "not interested" does not come from a(ny) level of depression, there is none (I know because I used to have a noticeable level of it many years ago, so I know how it feels to be incapacitated by even a small bit of that affliction). I just don't find most people interesting enough. That's not a "looking down" kind of feeling, but merely a mismatch.
A big part of it is the way we all live our lives though, I think. I want (a larger) community and cannot find or even see it, no so much "the one" friendship, or even "just friends". Having superficial talks now and then just isn't enough for me, I'm looking for a larger purpose.
[+] [-] arandr0x|7 years ago|reply
Is there a way to meet people (that doesn't involve sex, drugs or joining the army) where you can find out essential things about what they fear, want, etc in 1-5 encounters or do you have to put up with months of pointless lying if you want friends?
[+] [-] sacado2|7 years ago|reply
I don't have the numbers at hand, but AFAIK it's the case. People on average have less and less sexual relations, despite the so-called "hookup culture". Not sure it's a causality link, though.
[+] [-] sjg007|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mankrik|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wintorez|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] sacado2|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] gigatexal|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Pica_soO|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] mmirate|7 years ago|reply
The answer is in the buried-lead at the end:
>According to the Campaign To End Loneliness, loneliness has been found to speed up cognitive decline in older people, with one study concluding that it can increase your risk of developing clinical dementia by 64 per cent.
>Increasing the risk of high blood pressure, coronary heart disease and stroke, as well as disability, loneliness has also been found to increase your risk of dying early by 26 per cent - that's as much as obesity and smoking.
> So this isn't just a social problem - it's a potential health crisis.
This results in the question: how can we re-engineer humanity so that our 22nd-century cousins' physical health isn't dependent on, well, dealing with people?
(On second thought, it maybe doesn't result in that question after all: because nobody alive today could actually benefit from such an effort.)
[+] [-] bitxbitxbitcoin|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] derefr|7 years ago|reply
I don't find it very cheering to think that I'd only be discovered dead in my home because someone got angry that they couldn't fit any more mail in my mailbox, and complained to their manager about it. (Or because someone got grossed out by the scent of decay coming from my apartment, or because I never paid my bills and the repossessors attempted to visit me, etc.)
It's quite different in kind from even the most casual positive memory, e.g. a barista who makes note of the fact that a customer who they used to see every day at 3PM, isn't coming in any more.
[+] [-] cafard|7 years ago|reply
So yes, the county police noticed at once that the man was dead, the employer almost at once that the man was missing or at least incommunicado; but putting the information together was the problem.
[+] [-] pbhjpbhj|7 years ago|reply
It was a shock to me, some years ago, on leaving an office job to start a new business: I had a group of what I considered good friends, we spoke on many topics, shared lunches nearly every day, went out socially on occasions. Not one of them dropped in to my new work to see how I was getting on [the reverse was impossible, it was a closed site].
They noticed I wasn't there, but it clearly made no substantial difference to them.
Very few of us will leave a legacy that impacts beyond immediate family and friends, I think for those of us in that boat we have to come to terms with it and not let that thought cloud our enjoyment of the time we do have.
With 8 billion people the memory of good deeds quickly gets lost in the melee of daily life.
[+] [-] 2muchcoffeeman|7 years ago|reply
Once the current generation gets old we could easily coast through life isolated without friends. We’ll all need dead man switches soon.
[+] [-] dmortin|7 years ago|reply
https://www.foxnews.com/story/womans-dead-body-lies-in-flat-...
[+] [-] newnewpdro|7 years ago|reply
Decades ago I knew someone nearly homeless living in a downtown Chicago dive hotel, the kind of place you turned the bathroom light on just so the roaches would scatter before walking to the toilet.
They talked about the hotel management giving the younger and destitute tenants free months of stay in return for getting rid of the bodies and possessions of elderly tenants when they passed away.
Apparently it was somewhat common for poor elderly folks, alone in the world, to move into the hotel and have their government aid checks cashed for them by the hotel management.
By making them disappear after dying, the hotel continued to (illegally) collect the checks.
[+] [-] sandworm101|7 years ago|reply
https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/07/us/michigan-mummified-body-fo...
[+] [-] empath75|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] harlanji|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giancarlostoro|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dmortin|7 years ago|reply
Well, how about this one? They noticed it after 5 months:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2515097/Oxfordshire...
[+] [-] coldtea|7 years ago|reply
Not to mention tons of people have been found after weeks or months being dead without anybody noticing, so "the mailperson will notice eventually" is hardly a comfort.