It feels important to emphasise that Ram Dass is not a guru by his own definition:
Unity of God, guru, and Self is the higher truth, and if your veil of attachment is very thin, you may be able, like Ramana, to penetrate directly to that essence in the heart.
But most of us, to get through our busy human incarnation and the profusion of forms we find in our lives, need guidance and help. Seeing the guru as separate from oneself is a way to approach it in steps of lesser truths. It’s a first step toward becoming the One. The reality of the guru or guide as separate from oneself is a method or vehicle for coming to God. It’s using a relationship with a separate entity, dualism, to get to the One, to the reality that the guru is identical with your inmost being.
However, of all the things Ram Dass has said and done, the mantra (from the article) is all we really need to remember:
“So I accomplish the move from head to heart, in part with mantra: I am loving awareness. I am loving awareness. I am loving awareness.” With each repetition of the mantra, Ram Dass slowly begins charting the daily process of moving his consciousness out of his thinking mind and toward his open, present, compassionate heart—from ego land to soul land.
“All the universe is love,” he continues. “And I'm loving all of the universe.… Everything—everything—has love in it.”
What does it actually mean to say that all the universe is love, and that everything has love in it? Is this more a way in which he is choosing to view things, or an actual statement of fact?
I have always enjoyed listening to recordings of Ram Dass at various points during his life (much more than I've enjoyed his writings). I have issues with a lot of his beliefs at various points, but his compassion always shines through and I feel like he is being honest with his listeners about his experience of his spiritual journey, even if sometimes he is seeing things through muddy waters. He is imperfect, and searching, and he is very generous and genuine in sharing his experiences. I don't usually feel like I am getting grand truths from him, other than the insight into one seeker's subjective (and powerful) experiences.
I agree that the message is beautiful. I do have reservations however about gurus, in that the ones I'm aware of tend to live in isolated places where they are worshiped. I feel like it's easy to love and support others when you have peace, quiet, love and support in abundance around you. I'd like to see how these individuals operate in higher stress situations and if they've really perfected the art of love or if it's more a product of their circumstances.
I've always been conflicted by these gurus, so let me play devil's advocate and present some things I found when I researched Ram Dass / Neem Karoli Baba a while ago:
Some interesting tales by Ram Dass about how Neem Karoli read his mind, ingested ginormous amounts of LSD without any effect, etc; here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb2BWvRN090
The specific story about the Baba reading Ram Dass' mind and informing him that he was thinking about his mother and that she had died of spleen failure stayed with me. Maybe he was informed the previous night that a Professor from the US was arriving whose mother died recently of spleen failure and the rest was about creating an illusion of omniscience?
In any case, a large number of these gurus turn out to be sexual predators, and it is absolutely crushing to those who follow them to discover this.
UG "masturbation is better than meditation" Krishnamurti was a much needed respite from these masters of bullshit for me, personally.
I'd certainly advocate a high level of skepticism.
Even in the article Ram Dass is saying that he gave LSD to the Harvard undergraduate at least in part because he found him attractive. It makes me wonder what else happened in that encounter, but it's certainly a large abuse of power to have a professor giving undergraduate kids LSD.
I also think any discussion about these sorts of western gurus must also include dialogues about race, class, and privilege. If he could afford a Cessna, a Mercedes, a sailboat, and multiple apartments, it certainly was not from just a professor's salary. It's a whole lot easier to take a bunch of drugs then go practice asana and pranayama in India with the sort of safety net it sounded like he had.
Yeah, these guys give off slimy vibes, but I wonder if this term is a little harsh. Women associate willingly with these men, and ostensibly enjoy doing so. If all participants are willing, what is the difference between predation and normal human interaction? Is it not normal for women to be drawn to power and influence?
> The specific story about the Baba reading Ram Dass' mind and informing him that he was thinking about his mother and that she had died of spleen failure stayed with me. Maybe he was informed the previous night that a Professor from the US was arriving whose mother died recently of spleen failure and the rest was about creating an illusion of omniscience?
I recommend learning about cold reading.
(A major component of it isn't just that it's quite easy to talk information out of you with vague prompts, it's that after the fact you will tend to remember that information as having originated with the cold reader. For instance, if the cold-reader just says "You are thinking about someone very close to you" and you say, "I was thinking about my mother", you will later remember the cold reader saying you were thinking about your mother.)
Never heard of UGK before, but I just looked into him and he's quite the interesting fellow. Definitely agree with his views on the "quest" for enlightenment or the aggrandization of medidation/awakening. From what I can tell the actual content of his philosophy seems to consist of a mix of nihilism and determinism
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2516424/ is an interesting documentary about the complicated, ambivalent relationship between Alpert and Leary, made when Leary was dying. Leary, characteristically, turned his death into a spectacle, but I find Alpert the more interesting of the two.
I highly recommend How To Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan. He convincingly illustrates how detrimental to serious research were Leary and his penchant for the spectacular.
That turning his death into a spectacle was something to witness. I remember going to various underground night clubs in the Los Angeles area around the time of his death, and he would be in the club, literally in a hospital bed. People would be doing a meet and greet type of procession line, where he'd share any drugs offered and was generally one of those "I can't believe it" head shaking moments, but repeated for months.
On a personal level I find detachment and neutrality to be helpful for reducing anxiety and stress, but on a societal level it sounds like a recipe for mass complacency in the face of oppression.
I had his Be Here Now book in University. I didn't know he had a podcast. I'll have to add it.
I had a friend I was tripping on acid with, back in grad school, and he picked up the Be Here Now book, read the intro and said, "Wait, did he seriously change his name to 'Rammed ass?!'" .. I've always wondered about his intent after that. :-P
Understanding and living his message (or any other non-dualist teacher) is the #1 to do if you want a successful startup.
(Really, it's the recipe for a successful life. In fact, when you've tasted what he's offering, you may find that stock options, sales funnels, and customer acquisition costs no longer excite you.)
The most effective rape drug ever, turning adults into children who can be exploited.
“I got dismissed from Harvard because I had given psychedelics to an undergraduate. We had agreed with the dean that we would not give psychedelics to undergraduates.” Ram Dass flashes a mischievous grin. “He was an attractive kid.” So do you suspect, I ask, that Maharajji had a hand in making you attracted to men because it would ultimately lead you to him? “I suspect,” he replies with a nod. “He's a rascal.” “Maharajji?” I ask. “Yeah,” Ram Dass says.
There are truths to be seen through the eyes of a child, but there's also the rape-facilitation, too.
> The most effective rape drug ever, turning adults into children who can be exploited.
LSD certainly is not. It's not the safest of psychedelics from the psychological point of view (give it to a kind loving person and they will become even more loving and enlightened, give it to a psychopath and they will become even more dangerous) yet it usually doesn't switch consciousness and reason off (quite the opposite) and doesn't stimulate sexual desire. At least when taken in reasonable doses.
Other than this article, I’m pretty much unfamiliar with Ram Dass, so I’m curious what leads you to believe some form of rape took place. Is there something in Ramm Dass’ past that the article doesn’t cover? I feel like I must be missing something, surely it’s not the drug use alone that has led you to believe this, right?
I think that quote is talking about Ram Dass being gay, and his friend having a theory that his guru (Maharajji) made him gay for Ram Dass to find him easier.
Oh, that guy. See this New York Times article from 1977.[1]
"Over the course of several years, Alpert claimed to have taken some 300 acid trips. Inevitably, the problem became one of facing the blandness of coming down.... Once, he says he and five others locked themselves in a building for three weeks and dropped 400 micrograms of LSD every four hours. Still; when the trip was over, it was over. Finished. Done. In “Be Here Now,” Ram Dass describes the pain: “It was as if you'd come into the kingdom of heaven and seen how it all is, and then you got cast out again.” Looking for a way to get up there and stay up there, maybe even without drugs ... Alpert split for India."
Today. tuned out, turned off, and dropped out of sight.
refset|7 years ago
Unity of God, guru, and Self is the higher truth, and if your veil of attachment is very thin, you may be able, like Ramana, to penetrate directly to that essence in the heart.
But most of us, to get through our busy human incarnation and the profusion of forms we find in our lives, need guidance and help. Seeing the guru as separate from oneself is a way to approach it in steps of lesser truths. It’s a first step toward becoming the One. The reality of the guru or guide as separate from oneself is a method or vehicle for coming to God. It’s using a relationship with a separate entity, dualism, to get to the One, to the reality that the guru is identical with your inmost being.
i.e. God=Guru=Self, see: https://www.ramdass.org/god-guru-self/
However, of all the things Ram Dass has said and done, the mantra (from the article) is all we really need to remember:
“So I accomplish the move from head to heart, in part with mantra: I am loving awareness. I am loving awareness. I am loving awareness.” With each repetition of the mantra, Ram Dass slowly begins charting the daily process of moving his consciousness out of his thinking mind and toward his open, present, compassionate heart—from ego land to soul land.
“All the universe is love,” he continues. “And I'm loving all of the universe.… Everything—everything—has love in it.”
<3
0db532a0|7 years ago
pahool|7 years ago
zafka|7 years ago
everdev|7 years ago
gawin|7 years ago
moretai|7 years ago
vijucat|7 years ago
http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/dass.html
Some interesting tales by Ram Dass about how Neem Karoli read his mind, ingested ginormous amounts of LSD without any effect, etc; here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb2BWvRN090
The specific story about the Baba reading Ram Dass' mind and informing him that he was thinking about his mother and that she had died of spleen failure stayed with me. Maybe he was informed the previous night that a Professor from the US was arriving whose mother died recently of spleen failure and the rest was about creating an illusion of omniscience?
In any case, a large number of these gurus turn out to be sexual predators, and it is absolutely crushing to those who follow them to discover this.
UG "masturbation is better than meditation" Krishnamurti was a much needed respite from these masters of bullshit for me, personally.
gurusarepeople|7 years ago
Even in the article Ram Dass is saying that he gave LSD to the Harvard undergraduate at least in part because he found him attractive. It makes me wonder what else happened in that encounter, but it's certainly a large abuse of power to have a professor giving undergraduate kids LSD.
I also think any discussion about these sorts of western gurus must also include dialogues about race, class, and privilege. If he could afford a Cessna, a Mercedes, a sailboat, and multiple apartments, it certainly was not from just a professor's salary. It's a whole lot easier to take a bunch of drugs then go practice asana and pranayama in India with the sort of safety net it sounded like he had.
fromthestart|7 years ago
Yeah, these guys give off slimy vibes, but I wonder if this term is a little harsh. Women associate willingly with these men, and ostensibly enjoy doing so. If all participants are willing, what is the difference between predation and normal human interaction? Is it not normal for women to be drawn to power and influence?
saalweachter|7 years ago
I recommend learning about cold reading.
(A major component of it isn't just that it's quite easy to talk information out of you with vague prompts, it's that after the fact you will tend to remember that information as having originated with the cold reader. For instance, if the cold-reader just says "You are thinking about someone very close to you" and you say, "I was thinking about my mother", you will later remember the cold reader saying you were thinking about your mother.)
8bitsrule|7 years ago
The news only talks about the maybe 5 predators, not the 2000 who haven't completely lost their Way.
Turns out The Church had the same problem, on steroids.
krackers|7 years ago
tomcam|7 years ago
trhway|7 years ago
Sexual predator may be not that bad considering the alternatives like "Thank you for the Kool-Aid, reverend Jim"
moretai|7 years ago
neonate|7 years ago
alexilliamson|7 years ago
bsenftner|7 years ago
empath75|7 years ago
unknown|7 years ago
[deleted]
djsumdog|7 years ago
I had a friend I was tripping on acid with, back in grad school, and he picked up the Be Here Now book, read the intro and said, "Wait, did he seriously change his name to 'Rammed ass?!'" .. I've always wondered about his intent after that. :-P
FraaJad|7 years ago
You might have known other people with similar last name (eg: Anil Dash).
The most common pronunciation is "Das"
dugluak|7 years ago
davebryand|7 years ago
(Really, it's the recipe for a successful life. In fact, when you've tasted what he's offering, you may find that stock options, sales funnels, and customer acquisition costs no longer excite you.)
reidjs|7 years ago
swayvil|7 years ago
moretai|7 years ago
FlyMoreRockets|7 years ago
Nomentatus|7 years ago
“I got dismissed from Harvard because I had given psychedelics to an undergraduate. We had agreed with the dean that we would not give psychedelics to undergraduates.” Ram Dass flashes a mischievous grin. “He was an attractive kid.” So do you suspect, I ask, that Maharajji had a hand in making you attracted to men because it would ultimately lead you to him? “I suspect,” he replies with a nod. “He's a rascal.” “Maharajji?” I ask. “Yeah,” Ram Dass says.
There are truths to be seen through the eyes of a child, but there's also the rape-facilitation, too.
qwerty456127|7 years ago
LSD certainly is not. It's not the safest of psychedelics from the psychological point of view (give it to a kind loving person and they will become even more loving and enlightened, give it to a psychopath and they will become even more dangerous) yet it usually doesn't switch consciousness and reason off (quite the opposite) and doesn't stimulate sexual desire. At least when taken in reasonable doses.
thebigspacefuck|7 years ago
toofy|7 years ago
lalos|7 years ago
Animats|7 years ago
"Over the course of several years, Alpert claimed to have taken some 300 acid trips. Inevitably, the problem became one of facing the blandness of coming down.... Once, he says he and five others locked themselves in a building for three weeks and dropped 400 micrograms of LSD every four hours. Still; when the trip was over, it was over. Finished. Done. In “Be Here Now,” Ram Dass describes the pain: “It was as if you'd come into the kingdom of heaven and seen how it all is, and then you got cast out again.” Looking for a way to get up there and stay up there, maybe even without drugs ... Alpert split for India."
Today. tuned out, turned off, and dropped out of sight.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/04/archives/confessions-of-a...
qwerty456127|7 years ago