Man, 69, loses legal battle against temporal reality in effort to become 49

[schappim]

For a second I thought I was reading The Onion.

I do however like the philosophical nature of the question: If people can change their gender based on they feel, why can’t they change their age?

[tdb7893]

"Gender" is a social construct but while "old" or "young" is a social construct "69 years old" isn't really.

[nkkollaw]

You're right.

The answer to that is that people should not be able to change their gender--unless something gets invented that can change your chromosomes--but if they can then age and race should be allowed, too.

If anything, because by changing gender you can get all sort of advantages if you become a woman:

- tax cuts if you start a company - retire earlier - you win at sport competitions - about 1000 other things

If I feel like [insert minority], why can't I change my race and get the same benefits?

If we have to be abandon common sense, we should be coherent.

[panic]

“Age” and “gender” in this case are just entries in a government database somewhere. There’s no deep philosophy to it. Trans people wanted to be able to change their gender, so they fought hard for it—that’s what you need to do to get policies like this changed. If people want to be able to change their age, they’ll have to fight for that too.

[cbuq]

I agree that there is a philosophical discussion to be had, but the actual request was to change his official date of birth from March 11, 1949 to March 11, 1969 which is just ridiculous.

[noonespecial]

It's the difference between are and were. Age is an indication that you existed at some point in the past. It's a compacted record of reality. You cant change that arbitrarily even if you "feel younger".

Changing gender simply is a desire to change what you are currently. The whole notion of transitioning is to change from what you were to something that you feel more comfortable being.

[EpicEng]

Because neither of them actually work that way?

[ggggtez]

Because then he could be married before he was even born? Or a young person could "feel" like you are 65+, and start collecting retirement benefits early? Or they could "feel" 21+, so they could buy alcohol? Or if by changing your age, then a crime you committed when you were 18 was retroactively changed to when you were a minor?

Changing your gender doesn't actually have many legal implications (outside of, perhaps, marriage). Changing your age would throw your entire legal history into question.

[thinkingemote]

Indeed. Imagine someone exposed to fiberglass or coal dust whose health may be equivalent as a person twenty years older than them. Might not a stronger case be made that a person could be 69 rather than 49?

[JumpCrisscross]

> If people can change their gender based on they feel, why can’t they change their age?

One of these is subjective. The other is not.

[mindgam3]

+1 for Team Reality finally winning one. Feels like we’ve been getting shut out all season. A small victory to be sure but even those are worth celebrating in these dark times.

[prossercj]

This made me laugh, but unless I'm mistaken, he's quite serious. Luckily, however,

> An Arnhem court ruled in favor of the fourth dimension.

[ASalazarMX]

I wonder if he'll be remembered as a visionary of the age dysphoria trend: "I was born 69 years ago and identify as myself born 49 years ago."

[maerF0x0]

This brings up a valid point about health technology and "biological age". As (usually wealthy) people are increasingly able to delay the onset of senescence, the law is going to have issues with time defined "age" which represents capability.

For example having to retest every 5 years maybe unneeded if people are living to 125 and remaining healthy along the way.

[o_____________o]

Agree and was thinking that in the future, this snarky article will seem in poor taste, representing a time when fixed identity began unspooling.

[basicplus2]

He clearly has not thought through the consequences..

eg

turns up to pick up rented car..

Goes to bank to arrange a bank loan..

Tries to sell or buy land.. or anything for thar matter..

Tries get on an international flight...

Result..

sorry sir there is no way you are 49 years old you have obviously stolen someones identity just wait here while i call the police..

[LinuxBender]

If he looks as young as he feels, then he doesn't need to legally change his age to say he is 49 on Tinder.

[mikelyons]

That's a violation of the terms of service.

[throwawaywtfvjk]

people arguing, that temporal reality is absolute. what do you think about daylight savings?

[nkkollaw]

I don't see why one can change sex, but not change age, race, etc.

[Spooky23]

It's an issue of fact vs expression/perception. There was a moment in time when you started breathing outside of your mother's womb. There is usually a witness and time is a one-way metric.

Gender expression is a different, more complex matter. There has always been "grey" areas from an anatomy perspective and I think there is consensus that other factors affect this as well. Race, depending on context, is even more complex. Is it about nationality? Geography? Skin color? Religion?

Most things about people don't fit in neat boxes. Age is not one of those things.

[djohnston]

i think the important difference with age is that there are hard legal implications that go along with it, that SHOULDN'T exist over the dimensions of sex and race. The one that flies out at me is retirement or senior benefits. There may be some options only available to people of color, or women, but not as widespread as the implications of age. If this passed, could I become 65 and start withdrawing my 401k penalty-free?

[EpicEng]

Because words have meaning and none of those things are arbitrary.

[excalibur]

> Time is a constant.

Verifiably false, but pedantic.

[nkkollaw]

Scientists can prove someone's gender by looking at his/her chromosomes, can't they (if you take exceptions, there are people born with 4 arms, or even 2 heads: was a new species created, or it's just very rare exceptions?)..?

If you abandon common sense and gender is a construct, race and age should be a construct, or however you want to call it, people should be able to change it.

[helen___keller]

This legal battle was really about giving a platform to bigots who want to conflate gender with sex to invalidate transgendered people. Just look in the comments for proof.