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New Rails-like Framework from 37signals for HTML5 Mobile Apps

98 points| abraham | 15 years ago |thinkvitamin.com | reply

32 comments

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[+] sstephenson|15 years ago|reply
Hey folks, there's nothing to see here right now. We spent three weeks experimenting with some new tech to see what we could build, and ended up with something that looks a bit like Rails, but entirely client-side and written in CoffeeScript.

The project driving the framework—an HTML5 mobile UI for Basecamp—has been on hold for about a month now, and we're still a ways off from having anything to show. It just isn't a priority for us right now. When (or if) we do have something we'll be sure to post about it on our blog.

[+] kevinholesh|15 years ago|reply
Why not put it up on Github so we can help you finish it?

I'm currently a full time jQTouch developer, but I would much prefer a working environment like the one you're describing. I would certainly be willing to help develop it.

[+] flacon|15 years ago|reply
"It just isn't a priority for us right now" I think the number of upvotes your getting demonstrates a sincere interest in such a framework. Really look forward to seeing more from this project.
[+] zavulon|15 years ago|reply
> an HTML5 mobile UI for Basecamp

Oh man, that would be great! All Basecamp iPhone apps are terrible... If you don't mind me asking, is the "hold" temporary, so will the project be resumed at some point?

[+] petercooper|15 years ago|reply
For anyone interested in the idea of having multiple views in JavaScript (with their own URLs!), "Sammy" is a client-side JavaScript framework that's like Ruby's Sinatra: http://code.quirkey.com/sammy/

Indeed, what Ryan mentions sounds a bit like the ideas of Sammy, Backbone, and HTML5 local storage and offline caching blended together into a single tasty package.

[+] jashkenas|15 years ago|reply
If you'd like to browse an example Todos application (with annotated source code) that fuses Backbone.js and HTML5 local storage, here's a good place to start:

http://documentcloud.github.com/backbone/examples/todos/inde...

The particular Backbone/LocalStorage integration works quite well for this little app, despite being simplistic:

http://documentcloud.github.com/backbone/docs/backbone-local...

Edit: There seem to be a lot of folks who think that Sammy is the only way to get client-side routing -- nothing could be further from the truth. Sammy asks you to structure your entire app around an inappropriate faux-server-side API, and Sammy apps don't work correctly in Internet Explorer because Sammy doesn't use an iframe to set history in IE. Doing hashchange events yourself only takes about a page of code, and handling hash URLs is a relatively tiny portion of a client-side app:

https://gist.github.com/624773

That said, so many folks have asked for hashchange routing that perhaps it would be wise to build a Backbone plugin for it that smooths over the difference between pushState and hashchange...

[+] armandososa|15 years ago|reply
+1 one for Sammy. I find Backbone too complex, but I like how Sammy doesn't impose almost anything.
[+] pygy_|15 years ago|reply
After node, this is the second big project to endorse Coffescript (although this is still vapourware of course). And 37signals rock at marketting.

I' glad the language is getting traction.

[+] boucher|15 years ago|reply
Not really sure to what extent Node is embracing coffeescript, unless there's news I haven't read you could link to.
[+] Void_|15 years ago|reply
Why only mobile? We need something like SproutCore, but easy like Rails.

Backbone.js maybe?

[+] thibaut_barrere|15 years ago|reply
Why ? I would say: "Focus, focus, focus"!

After doing my experimentations with various mobile stuff, I tend to think I'd prefer investing time in something specific to mobile like this or sencha, and rely on a (Rails or other) app with JSON API for the site or back-end.

[+] chrisbroadfoot|15 years ago|reply
Doesn't sound very mobile-specific to me. Buzzword? But still, I'm interested to hear more.
[+] LaGrange|15 years ago|reply
The target seems very mobile-specific. HTML5 is better supported on mobile, and the proposed model sometimes fits "desktop" web apps, and almost always mobile web apps.

So yes, buzzword, but it fits.

[+] mhd|15 years ago|reply
Ah, Coffeescript, the Ratfor of a new generation…
[+] jrockway|15 years ago|reply
There is a need for Coffeescript; programming Javascript directly leads to cross-browser issues. Something like Coffeescript can abstract away the per-browser style issues. (The main annoyance I notice is the behavior of trailing commas in lists. In Firefox, it works. In IE, it silently breaks. Coffeescript avoids this issue, since the code you type never sees the browser.)

I would personally find a Javascript->Javascript compiler more compelling, as it would mean I wouldn't need a new editor toolchain. But that wouldn't be as fun to blog about, becuase you would still have to type $("DOM") instead of $ DOM!

[+] apl|15 years ago|reply
It's mildly annoying. Unlike Fortran, JS doesn't desperately need a preprocessor language. Adding another layer of "abstraction" and some syntactic sugar will make the process of developing good JS needlessly complex and fragile.
[+] jashkenas|15 years ago|reply
Googling around for Ratfor doesn't reveal the history -- mind sharing what happened with Ratfor in the end? From your tone, I'm assuming it ended in tears...
[+] yatsyk|15 years ago|reply
Own programming language, own templating engine - looks like NIH syndrome. But with 37signals' developers they could afford it.
[+] raganwald|15 years ago|reply
Own programming language

Is coffeescript from 37Signals? I thought it was written by Jeremy Ashkenas at DocumentCloud?

[+] thibaut_barrere|15 years ago|reply
The trick with NIH syndrome is balancing, as with any other syndrom. Once you know about it, you can also detect situations where it's worthy rolling your own (GitHub's Resque is another successful example of that).