Congrats to that team for building a great product. I hope they see a lot of success. Long term, I hope plant based meat alternatives become commoditized. If there are a bunch of alternatives that taste just as good and importantly are cheaper than meat, most people will switch. That's a huge win for the environment (and also animal rights), and I can't wait to see it happen.
I love meat but I've always struggled to reconcile my love of eating it with my love of animals. I would be happy to pay a premium if it meant I could get meat-like taste without the guilt
I agree it is really positive outcome. It suffers patent risk like a number of technologies that were slowed significantly in their early life (like encryption and digital cash).
This is about the only kind of vegan proselytizing that I can stomach. If you can make food that tastes as good as meat, with nutrition similar to meat, and sell it at a lower price than meat, I will switch overnight, and never look back.
And it would be nice if it came in bulk forms, rather than just as pre-formed patties. I eat ground beef a lot more often than I eat burgers.
Until then, good luck with the test kitchen research. The results so far indicate that the developers understand the problem they need to solve.
Until the people currently destroying forests to grow cattle, start destroying forests to grow ingredients for these burgers. Soil depletion is also a thing. I still remember the argument for biofuel and where it ended up.
More options in the mix is always good, but trying to replace everything with vegetable stuff is not going to work in the long run.
That is interesting but I don't think that it would be healthy for people to eat beef burgers as their primary source of nutrition either. What annoys me about the fake meat is that in the dystopian future soymeat was supposed to be everywhere and cheaper where real meat was a sought after expensive delicacy but due to government subsidies and hding the costs of environmental externalities real meat remains much cheaper than the fake meats in general. Just saying.
That's really cool. Although I wish there were more vegan food that didn't try to replicate non-vegan textures and flavors. Imitation can only be playing catch-up. The best vegan and vegetarian food does its own thing.
I used to feel this way until I tried an impossible burger (1.0, I presume). I thought the only way to allow the more carnivorous of us to have a satisfying meal while eliminating animal suffering was to grow petri dish meat.
Impossible burgers seriously nail the taste and texture and nutritional proportions. It also seems like it will be much more cost effective to create them than the aforementioned petri dish burgers. When I tried an impossible burger it seriously made me excited for the future. The imitation meats from before had some serious problems, but just trust me, you need to try this one if you haven't already.
For context: I am a red blooded American meat eater.
Being born in India, I've had the privilege to eat vegetarian meals that can rival even the best meat based meal.
While I welcome 'impossible' meat replacements, it is funny that the meat reduction movement is looking at such impractical and immature products instead of simpler solutions such as bringing veg friendly cuisines to the fore.
I am opposed to advocating for cold-turkey veganism though. Milk products and eggs are great meat substitutes, and the lack of both makes entire cuisines inaccessible.
I say whatever sells more non-meat burgers is good. Telling a die-hard meat eater to just eat a mushroom or some eggplant is not going to be effective.
There was this one girl I was dating for a short while. She was vegan, for her own reasons, and so she'd eat her own meals. I asked if I could try some one time.
The tastes of the various kinds of meatballs she was have were interesting, at the very least. I'd never had anything like it. One particular kind – can't remember the name of the veggie it was made of – was so good I made my own later. A unique taste with its own unique texture: soft, dry, crumbly, yet condensing nicely after chewing.
I'm looking forward to meat imitations. I'd try one eagerly if I had the chance. I like the taste of meat, and it would let me have meat without the massive animal husbandry ecosystem required to support it. What's not to like?
In the meantime, I'm sure there are tons of things I'd enjoy, that I haven't tried yet, which are also completely vegan.
As a vegetarian that is a fairly picky eater, and (a decade ago) a big meat eater, I have a different perspective. When you don't enjoy, say, bell peppers, it is really nice to have some meat-like textures and tastes. As we get closer to having textures that do more than taste/feel like highly processed meat, it gets better.
Which doesnt contradict your point that veg/vegan options have taste and experiences that are worthwhile in their own right, but I shall forever be glad of the time I had pakora thatd recaptured the taste of KFC, as well as other chewy options to round out the relatively small set of options my tastebuds find palatable.
I certainly wish it was different, but from my perspective veggies are out there for anyone to find. Meat tastes/textures are not out there for the vegs/vegans yet.
Plus, the easiest way to reduce meat consumption is to provide drop-in replacements for those that are seeking that taste/texture in ways that done make them regret the choice.
I agree that the best vegan and vegetarian food does its own thing, but for me, a pescatarian, the idea of not having the delicious taste and texture of salmon slowly baked in a cast iron pan for four hours whilst being basted with oil every half an hour … my tongue just disallows it. It's not yet a sacrifice I'm willing to make until I encounter a viable alternative, and so efforts like these are a step further not just for people like me but for the general population.
Fortunately, fish is fairly easy to imitate with soy, but nothing quite beats that melt-in-your-mouth quality of slowly baked salmon. That's about the only meat I eat anymore, though I still experiment with substitutions. Usually some kind of tofu and a thick-but-viscous sauce of some kind, but even then it's flavoured with dashi.
Hear hear! These kinds of foods I think are handy for people transitioning to a more vegetarian/vegan diet, when they still crave "traditional" foods like hamburgers and hotdogs. But I think they also goof up public perceptions of what good veg* food is.
So, I'm a die-hard meat eater, and I categorically refuse to ever give up meat, but there is some seriously fantastic vegetarian food out there based on this exact principle.
There's a Beijing-style street food place in a suburb of Dallas. If you're ever in the area and want to check it out, it's called Fatni BBQ. My absolute favorite items on the menu are both vegetarian, and I would gladly go there and get only non-meat items because they're _that damn good_.
Item one is what the menu calls "hibachi tofu". It's a basket of tofu that's all been seared on the grill. It has all the wonderful tastes and textures I associate with fried cheese, except it's not quite as gooey. I'm lucky it comes in a giant basket, because I will devour that so fast.
Item two is what the menu calls "hibachi gluten", which is a skewer containing several pieces of fried wheat gluten. Most of the pieces are cut in a spiral pattern, but there's usually one end piece on each skewer that's shaped kind of like an arrowhead. I seriously feel sorry for the celiacs of the world, because this stuff is genuinely addictive. It tastes like it's made of both meat and fried dough at the same time. Each skewer is about $1, and I never order less than five. And I still leave wanting more but having to cut myself off because I can spend way too much there if I'm not careful.
Oh, and every single item on their menu is dipped in a cumin-forward mix of spices that's just amazing.
They're actually not a vegetarian place. They have lots of meat items on their menu, but honestly they're just not nearly as good as the tofu or the gluten.
What kind of vegan food are you thinking of? I mean, things like nuts, beans, etc. already exist. What requirements should "new" food fulfil? Providing the right nutrients?
I think this type of thing is more important to get non-vegan people to eat less animals than to provide options to vegans. Anyone who has been eating vegan or vegetarian for some time is already going to appreciate the nuances in foods, while a great meat substitute is important for the meat eaters who think they can't have a meal without some "protein" on the plate.
Just out of curiosity, are you vegan/veg? I hear this point of view a lot online but I’ve rarely heard it within the vegan community where people are usually pretty honest about craving junk food/burgers etc every now and again. Not trying to call you out, genuinely curious.
Then you will just create a new market, not directly replace an existing market.
The creater of the Impossible Burger said he could create new types of meat. I think of it as meat of animals that have never evolved. However that's not their focus.
Well in this case it allows you to eat a burger if you like burgers. Me personally I eat vegan, vegetarian and non-vegan / non-vegetarian foods so it doesn't bother me as much.
I'm really curious about the "fake meat" products that exist in other countries. In the Netherlands, there's been enormous growth both in the number of vegetarians and in the number of "fake meat" products that have become widely available, and the quality of the latter has improved dramatically. Before, these products were mostly useful for the non-vegetarians wanting to prepare a meal for vegetarians without having to relearn how to do it (with actual vegetarians preferably preparing vegetarian-first meals, e.g. with nuts and beans rather than fake meat). However, nowadays these products have become so good that they're actually of added value to a meal in terms of taste.
Interestingly, they do not appear to place as much focus on matching actual meat as much as the foreign products that are usually the subject of articles like these. Instead, they merely have to taste good and have good texture - it doesn't matter if it's still somewhat different from actual meat (sometimes they even taste better).
At the forefront of this has been the Vegetarian Butcher (that's a brand name). They've recently been acquired by Unilever and will likely expand internationally more aggressively. I have the feeling that the Netherlands is friendlier to vegetarians, on average, than other Western countries, and if that will give them an advantage. Time will tell!
In France I have seen a clear growth in the variety of products commonly available (which is great). Regarding taste it is still not clearly better than actual meat but I have tasted good supermarket-bought vegetarian burgers.
In Germany's supermarket, I found the kind of food I find in France's shops that specialize in healthy food.
There's been kind of a boom in vegetarian ready-made foods in Finland. I think it started with Pulled Oats (https://goldandgreenfoods.com ), but soon after that appeared in stores, several of the major food producers came out with their own vegetarian meat-substitutes, with varying degrees of emphasis on replacing meat and veganness etc. There's even a "healthier" ground pork that has carrots mixed in.
I'm not a huge fan of the new batch of products personally, although I see people buy them quite a lot. The products are usually roughly comparable to organic ground beef in price. Personally, I find cooking vegan from scratch is cheaper and tastier, but I guess it's not really a fair comparison - I also think homecooked meat is better than storebought patties.
Yves is really popular here in Canada. You can get it in just about every grocery store and some corner stores: http://yvesveggie.com/en/
That said, it's more traditional "fake meat", and probably not a close synthesis.
I'm actually more curious about the lab grown meat as an alternative. It almost seems like that could catch up by the time anyone gets a veggie burger actually tasting like meat.
We have a few available in the US, my favorite is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn#Production which is not vegan as it contains some amount of egg. But the majority of the product is made from soil mold protein, which is what makes it unique among the options I have available.
One of the smaller Asian grocers in New York City has made the best fake meat I've had by far, and I wouldn't be surprised if it sources for many of the vegetarian Asian restaurants in the city. http://www.maywahnyc.com/ I wonder how many other places exist in the world like it, and how much a little bit of marketing would do for them.
I'm disappointed they switched away from seitan / gluten protein to soy protein. I just like wheat protein better, it feels better to me. But there's tremendous--and unfounded--pressure to eliminate gluten. Sad.
It's not unfounded ... for whatever reason, it seems very few people are allergic to soy, whereas more than 1% of population (Americans ? not sure) have 'allergies' to gluten.
My daughter has diagnosed celiac disease, so I'm glad for any pressure to eliminate gluten :) I'm also amazed at how many things you wouldn't imagine have gluten :(
Whether accurate or not, lots of opinion swirls around the effects that eating soy has on testosterone levels in men. Even if these plant based "meats" are indistinguishable in flavor and texture, they might end up losing to lab grown meat in the long run because of concerns like that.
I wonder if they balanced the amino acid profile correctly, if this is not a complete protein then it wold detract from the main reason I eat meat, for simple exercise recovery. One of the problems I have with grain protein sources is they are rarely formulated in a way that allows for slow absorption and it forces me to look up what amino acids I need to supplement with.
Sort of interesting seeing this at the Consumer Electronics Show. Most food startups I've seen would never think of trying to exhibit at that kind of venue, but clearly it's an effective way for them to reach their target demographic with coverage like this. They're probably also exhibiting at food industry conferences, to get the restaurant & supermarket distribution deals, but CES gets them TechCrunch & HN readers.
I've tried Impossible burger a couple of times in the last few months. Both were in New York - one in Soho House and one in Lucky's in Chelsea. The former cost about $25, and the latter about $13 (a burger in Lucky's runs about $8 so this is hugely expensive).
The Soho House on was just about the most disappointing thing I'v ever eaten. It tasted like a bad veggie burger. The Lucky's one was fantastic, but whilst meatier, again didn't taste like meat. I think if you served me the patty by itself I'd be able to identify it as not being meat.
My extremely limited sample has led me to conclude that the cooking skill is critical, and that you can go a long way towards persuading someone of a patty's 'meatiness' by dressing it in burger sauce, cheese, etc.
I'm not quite sure that the mission here is something indistinguishable from a real burger, but if it is then it's not there yet. But a great mission and I'll continue to fork out absurd money for them whenever the urge for a beef burger strikes me.
Had one of these recently. I was shocked. The texture isn't 100% but very, very close and the taste was amazing. It was much flatter than photo; looked and tasted like Shake Shack.
They said 1.0 was "indistinguishable from meat" and yet when i was erroneously served it, i distinguished it quite easily. It had the texture of wet bread and the taste of stale wet bread soaked in rotting pig blood. Bring on the blind taste tests before claiming it tastes like meat.
Glad this version is made without gluten, unlike the current Impossible Burger. In the mean time, Beyond Meat has been my goto burger for a few months.
I'm curious if anyone else has stomach issues after eating the Impossible Burger, the Beyond Meat burger, etc.? Something about the protein isolate or who knows what else doesn't sit well with me. I've talked to others anecdotally about the same thing, but is this a widespread occurrence?
It reminds me a bit of when Frito-Lay tried to introduce Olean into their potato chips and it gave everyone the 3's...
The other thing I am not seeing in the comments is that most store bought meat from big chains like Vons, Krogers, Walmart, etc- doesn't really taste that good. When cooked, likely chewy, dry and tasting "off".
When we think of the "good burger" bite, we arnet thinking of discount ground meat from the market, we are thinking of a good burger from some restaurant.
Does anyone know what the retail pricing is likely to be? A restaurant owner I talked to says he pays $11/lb for the stuff. If they ramp up production then they may be able to lower the price a bit. Or they could just spend VC $ to subsidize the price and gain market share. Either way, I'm excited to try it out when it's available!
In the early 70s, my dad worked at a place that (as a side business I think) made a meat substitute called KESP. He used to bring samples home and mum would make pies from it. Tasted awful if I remember correctly but I'm surprised it's taken this long to get to a viable meat alternative.
[+] [-] nindalf|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] be-ez|7 years ago|reply
Impossible has an environmental mission first.
Checkout the sustainability report from 2017 http://www.ift.org/~/media/Food%20Technology/Weekly/IF_Susta...
Or the update from 2018 https://impossiblefoods.com/if-pr/2018-Impact-Update/
[+] [-] puranjay|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zornado|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] logfromblammo|7 years ago|reply
And it would be nice if it came in bulk forms, rather than just as pre-formed patties. I eat ground beef a lot more often than I eat burgers.
Until then, good luck with the test kitchen research. The results so far indicate that the developers understand the problem they need to solve.
[+] [-] toyg|7 years ago|reply
More options in the mix is always good, but trying to replace everything with vegetable stuff is not going to work in the long run.
[+] [-] nonbel|7 years ago|reply
This stuff has no cholesterol and (a small amount of) carbs while also containing way more salt, thiamine (vitamin B1), and folate (vitamin B9): https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/6205/2
http://livablefutureblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/impo...
FYI, both folate and thiamine over-consumption may be linked to cancer:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29529163
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4178204/
So while it is fine for people to eat it for "pleasure", it may be dangerous to trick the mind into thinking it is consuming a real burger.
[+] [-] devmunchies|7 years ago|reply
Yeah but processed meat IS linked to cancer.
https://www.cfs.gov.hk/english/multimedia/multimedia_pub/mul...
And last I checked, most Americans have a problem with high cholesterol, not low cholesterol. Americans eat too much meat.
[+] [-] robotbikes|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shafyy|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] danharaj|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] novia|7 years ago|reply
Impossible burgers seriously nail the taste and texture and nutritional proportions. It also seems like it will be much more cost effective to create them than the aforementioned petri dish burgers. When I tried an impossible burger it seriously made me excited for the future. The imitation meats from before had some serious problems, but just trust me, you need to try this one if you haven't already.
For context: I am a red blooded American meat eater.
[+] [-] screye|7 years ago|reply
While I welcome 'impossible' meat replacements, it is funny that the meat reduction movement is looking at such impractical and immature products instead of simpler solutions such as bringing veg friendly cuisines to the fore.
I am opposed to advocating for cold-turkey veganism though. Milk products and eggs are great meat substitutes, and the lack of both makes entire cuisines inaccessible.
[+] [-] picodguyo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MarsAscendant|7 years ago|reply
The tastes of the various kinds of meatballs she was have were interesting, at the very least. I'd never had anything like it. One particular kind – can't remember the name of the veggie it was made of – was so good I made my own later. A unique taste with its own unique texture: soft, dry, crumbly, yet condensing nicely after chewing.
I'm looking forward to meat imitations. I'd try one eagerly if I had the chance. I like the taste of meat, and it would let me have meat without the massive animal husbandry ecosystem required to support it. What's not to like?
In the meantime, I'm sure there are tons of things I'd enjoy, that I haven't tried yet, which are also completely vegan.
[+] [-] ergothus|7 years ago|reply
Which doesnt contradict your point that veg/vegan options have taste and experiences that are worthwhile in their own right, but I shall forever be glad of the time I had pakora thatd recaptured the taste of KFC, as well as other chewy options to round out the relatively small set of options my tastebuds find palatable.
I certainly wish it was different, but from my perspective veggies are out there for anyone to find. Meat tastes/textures are not out there for the vegs/vegans yet.
Plus, the easiest way to reduce meat consumption is to provide drop-in replacements for those that are seeking that taste/texture in ways that done make them regret the choice.
[+] [-] zapzupnz|7 years ago|reply
Fortunately, fish is fairly easy to imitate with soy, but nothing quite beats that melt-in-your-mouth quality of slowly baked salmon. That's about the only meat I eat anymore, though I still experiment with substitutions. Usually some kind of tofu and a thick-but-viscous sauce of some kind, but even then it's flavoured with dashi.
[+] [-] the_gastropod|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amyjess|7 years ago|reply
There's a Beijing-style street food place in a suburb of Dallas. If you're ever in the area and want to check it out, it's called Fatni BBQ. My absolute favorite items on the menu are both vegetarian, and I would gladly go there and get only non-meat items because they're _that damn good_.
Item one is what the menu calls "hibachi tofu". It's a basket of tofu that's all been seared on the grill. It has all the wonderful tastes and textures I associate with fried cheese, except it's not quite as gooey. I'm lucky it comes in a giant basket, because I will devour that so fast.
Item two is what the menu calls "hibachi gluten", which is a skewer containing several pieces of fried wheat gluten. Most of the pieces are cut in a spiral pattern, but there's usually one end piece on each skewer that's shaped kind of like an arrowhead. I seriously feel sorry for the celiacs of the world, because this stuff is genuinely addictive. It tastes like it's made of both meat and fried dough at the same time. Each skewer is about $1, and I never order less than five. And I still leave wanting more but having to cut myself off because I can spend way too much there if I'm not careful.
Oh, and every single item on their menu is dipped in a cumin-forward mix of spices that's just amazing.
They're actually not a vegetarian place. They have lots of meat items on their menu, but honestly they're just not nearly as good as the tofu or the gluten.
[+] [-] colordrops|7 years ago|reply
Isn't that most vegan food already? I.e. vegetables
[+] [-] Vinnl|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kraig|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leaf_house|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nickik|7 years ago|reply
The creater of the Impossible Burger said he could create new types of meat. I think of it as meat of animals that have never evolved. However that's not their focus.
[+] [-] giancarlostoro|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Vinnl|7 years ago|reply
Interestingly, they do not appear to place as much focus on matching actual meat as much as the foreign products that are usually the subject of articles like these. Instead, they merely have to taste good and have good texture - it doesn't matter if it's still somewhat different from actual meat (sometimes they even taste better).
At the forefront of this has been the Vegetarian Butcher (that's a brand name). They've recently been acquired by Unilever and will likely expand internationally more aggressively. I have the feeling that the Netherlands is friendlier to vegetarians, on average, than other Western countries, and if that will give them an advantage. Time will tell!
[+] [-] nestorD|7 years ago|reply
In Germany's supermarket, I found the kind of food I find in France's shops that specialize in healthy food.
[+] [-] rebuilder|7 years ago|reply
I'm not a huge fan of the new batch of products personally, although I see people buy them quite a lot. The products are usually roughly comparable to organic ground beef in price. Personally, I find cooking vegan from scratch is cheaper and tastier, but I guess it's not really a fair comparison - I also think homecooked meat is better than storebought patties.
[+] [-] 52-6F-62|7 years ago|reply
That said, it's more traditional "fake meat", and probably not a close synthesis.
I'm actually more curious about the lab grown meat as an alternative. It almost seems like that could catch up by the time anyone gets a veggie burger actually tasting like meat.
[+] [-] testvox|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sand500|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ebetica0|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MagicPropmaker|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] okaram|7 years ago|reply
My daughter has diagnosed celiac disease, so I'm glad for any pressure to eliminate gluten :) I'm also amazed at how many things you wouldn't imagine have gluten :(
[+] [-] ArthurBrussee|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] goda90|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Blinks-|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] propter_hoc|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gioele|7 years ago|reply
This vegetarian salami fooled many friends of mine in various double blind experiments: https://www.ruegenwalder.de/en/products/vegetarian-salami-cl...
[+] [-] georgespencer|7 years ago|reply
The Soho House on was just about the most disappointing thing I'v ever eaten. It tasted like a bad veggie burger. The Lucky's one was fantastic, but whilst meatier, again didn't taste like meat. I think if you served me the patty by itself I'd be able to identify it as not being meat.
My extremely limited sample has led me to conclude that the cooking skill is critical, and that you can go a long way towards persuading someone of a patty's 'meatiness' by dressing it in burger sauce, cheese, etc.
I'm not quite sure that the mission here is something indistinguishable from a real burger, but if it is then it's not there yet. But a great mission and I'll continue to fork out absurd money for them whenever the urge for a beef burger strikes me.
[+] [-] antidaily|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dmitrygr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shadyrudy|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adam|7 years ago|reply
It reminds me a bit of when Frito-Lay tried to introduce Olean into their potato chips and it gave everyone the 3's...
[+] [-] fashionrob|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gnicholas|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] searine|7 years ago|reply
I just want to make chili. Please let me give you money!
[+] [-] callumprentice|7 years ago|reply