I've been using one of these for about 6 weeks, and I find it is not very accurate, but the convenience that allows checking the readings very often nearly makes up for the huge error bars. The libre freestyle 14-day is usually within 15 mg/dl when the reading is between 80 and 100, but above that range, it is usually off by 20 to 30 percent of the correct value (not 20-30 mg/dl) and mine has never read much higher than the finger-stick test, only lower. The lower numbers make me inclined to believe it, but they are simply not true, the meter gives only about one significant digit of accuracy throughout its range, and it is pretty far off or refuses to produce a reading when my blood sugar goes below 60 mg/dl.
Still, being able to see at a glance whether one is 100 or 200 is quite useful. Medicare pays about $500/month for the attachable sensors, which are extremely convenient and non-problematic so far.
There is a far better wearable system ready to go but not in production, a combined sensor and automated insulin dispenser, that has passed human trials, but no one wants to go into production with it because of liability issues. Given that people are riding in self-driving cars and landing in aircraft on autopilot, each of which are also potentially fatal and involve a larger set of variables, I wonder if and how long it will take to progress in this regard.
The libre is meant for monitoring the trend of the glucose, used together with a fingerstick reader. You can calibrate the values if you use xDrip to get better accuracy.
If you're interested in using a closed loop, take a look into AndroidAPS or Loop, how to build one by yourself. It's all open source and works really well. Been a user for some years now. You just need to compile it by yourself and own the right hardware.
Are you sure that the reading were 20-30 percent off and not just delayed? Libre and other sensors measure sugar level in the extracellular fluid and it takes some time before glucose gets there from blood.
The delays make the comparison difficult. Also if it gets too high or low then people react and quickly change the slope of the graph, then the sugar level in the extracellular fluid would not reach the same extremum as the sugar in the blood.
i have the same experience, the Libre was very inaccurate for me as well.
> There is a far better wearable system ready to go but not in production, a combined sensor and automated insulin dispenser, that has passed human trials, but no one wants to go into production with it because of liability issues.
> The sensor is applied to the back of the upper arm with a simple, disposable device called an applicator. When the sensor is applied, a small (5mm) filament is inserted just under the skin, and held in place with a small adhesive pad.
'Inserted just under the skin' means it's still invasive, but that sounds nicer than regular needle-sticks so perhaps 'less-invasive' would be a more accurate description.
I wear a FreeStyle Libre every day, AMA. It's very good for T1s, of course.
It's reliable enough - the biggest downfall is that it's around 15 minutes behind real-time, ie, what you can measure with blood. Sometimes it can feel 'stuck' too, and change rapidly between a short amount of time.
The second model, which I am waiting to try, includes Bluetooth alerts if a trend high or low is detected. This may make it even more useful.
What do you mean by 'second model'? Like a new version of the FreeStyle Libre?
I just got my first CGM, FreeStyle Libre 14 day, 2 days ago :) The relief I've already experienced from not having anxiety about where my blood sugar is at has been incredible. That said, being able to set alerts for lows/highs and not having to manually scan the sensor would be huge improvements.
The way I was checking blood sugar before (finger pricks) it seemed like I'd gain relatively little by using a pump, but now I'm thinking a pump may be indispensable if used in combination with a CGM: Since I can now see how my blood sugar is changing in near real-time, if I have errors in dose size, I'm going to want to be able to make small correction...
I’ve been using my Libre with Miao Miao, Spike and Nightscout for getting a real time feed for a while now. It took some time to get a feel for how the sensors behave, but I’m happy with the setup - it’s certainly good enough for my goals.
I really like the real time data aspect which means I can access it easily on other devices.
I also still regularly use the official phone app to get a reading via NFC which suits certain circumstances for me and I find pretty accurate most of the time.
Are there any devices that track insulin levels directly?
That’s what I’d be most interested in. Folks conjecture that it’s your insulin response that causes weight gain rather than the blood sugar increase. They’re not as correlated as you’d expect!
Summary: I have no citation but my understanding is that measuring insulin levels needs to be done from a blood draw, so a Freestyle Libre-type device wouldn't work.
The Freestyle Libre and regular continuous glucose monitors measure glucose in the interstitial fluid under the skin - not blood. This is why the numbers can be wildly different to a blood glucose test done via finger-prick.
From what I've seen while researching very low carb diets, insulin levels are incredibly important and influence a lot of body chemistry. For example, someone without type 1 diabetes can have a normal blood glucose but only because they're producing an enormous amount of insulin. A large amount of insulin in the blood will cause fat to be stored, so the patient puts on weight.
No. In the US, all similar products require a prescription. This is by far the best available option (no fingerstick calibration, longest-lasting sensor, easy mobile app, etc.). Basically, get this one. It’s $80 including 1 month of sensors.
I believe the thinking is that people need a professional to discuss results with. I understand that perspective, but I don’t agree with it, and I definitely don’t agree that having someone to discuss results with should outweigh the increased access/adoption of over-the-counter sales. This is the first product that makes it practical - even easy - and completely painless for non-diabetics like me to track blood glucose informationally, so perhaps this will change. That said, the FDA has made other overly-conservative decisions, like disallowing fingerstick A1c tests (which don’t require fasting or a full venous blood draw) for first-pass screening of diabetes: http://www.onsitehealthdiagnostics.com/blog/a1c/, https://twitter.com/troyd/status/1018150306125758465.
Here in the UK, I don't have a prescription (despite being type 1 diabetic) but occasionally self-fund the devices directly from Abbott. I get a VAT excemption so it costs ~£45 per unit, which lasts 2 weeks.
If I'm not a diabetic but just want to track my blood glucose, will a doctor still prescribe me one? Will insurance balk at it? Any estimates as to final cost?
Unfortunately this means less than you'd think. See other comments on this thread on the subject of accuracy. Also, from my understanding, the current (still wanting) state of accuracy is the result of large improvements during just the past few years. Prior to that, CGMs were still prescription medical devices used by Type 1 diabetics to say alive.
And more unfortunately, it has been my experience that information about managing blood sugar given to diabetics by doctors is almost uniformly quite bad (I've received the same sort of overly simplistic, misguided instructions from 4 or 5 different doctors myself; now I just nod and let them finish speaking). As a result, nearly every other (non-engineer/scientist) diabetic I've been met has very bad numbers (A1C: three month average blood glucose)—as I would have too were I to follow my doctors' advice. Instead I have very good numbers which are a result of research and reasoning I had to do myself.
I'm curious about this. Theoretically healthy people shouldn't care about their blood sugar since your body normally regulates your blood glucose using insulin and other hormones.
If you're wondering if you may be pre-diabetic then wouldn't an A1C test (home tests available and are very accurate) be a better diagnostic test?
It is absurd that two (not one) doctor's scripts are needed to buy a sugar testing device. I've been trying to get this for my mother but it has been an awful experience in terms of their willingness to sell. I wish a company that actually wants to make money would soon offer an alternative.
They are opaque on pricing, do not answer questions about where to buy, do not clearly state what kind of prescription they need.
My mother had the Freestyle Libre and liked it. Now using a Dexcom which works with her Apple Watch. I just bought her a Dario finger-stick glucose meter for her birthday which plugs into iPhone lightning port ($40!).
I have the Medtronic MiniMed pump, which includes its sensor that the pump uses for automated basal dosing. Accuracy is similar to what others have described.
When I lived in Canada I used to occasionally see infomercials about blood sugar monitors that didn't require pricking fingers - are those considered to be any good or is it some kind of infomercial scam? If they are considered to be mostly accurate, why can't that technology be used instead of having a 5mm needle in your body, which probably feels uncomfortable, particularly for the elderly.
Monitors that don't need a finger stick can take blood from other body areas, usually the forearm. The theory is there are less nerves in places other than the finger.
The result is not considered as accurate compared to finger sticks but it's an option for people that can't really stick their fingers I guess.
They're mostly the more modern ones that don't need much blood. Also the ones I've purchased have a special attachment for the lancet device to accommodate the different location.
The ads do seem to imply that you don't need to use a lancet but that's just marketing and advertising. You still need to use a lancet to get a drop of blood.
My son use it since a year and measures are accurate for normal glucose concentration but not for higher ones. The device also includes a classic finger reader for double checks. The French healthcare reimburse 2 devices per month, which is perfect.
I tested my blood sugar with strips for a few days. One wierd thing I noticed for some meals is I’d be at 98 blood sugar or so before the meal but within 30 minutes after a moderate meal I’d be at 78 or so. Seemed really backwards.
I know someone who could benefit (either psychologically or medically) from a sort of holter monitor for her blood glucose levels. Are you the person who wrote this? If so how did you get your prescription?
I’m not the author, but the author simply asked their primary care doctor for one and I know others who have done the same. Next time you’re at the doctor, just explain that you want to be proactive about health and ask for one.
Over the next year or two, performing at least a few weeks of real-time monitoring per year will become standard practice among those who consciously monitor their health. With the Libre, doing a few weeks per year is no harder, and not much more expensive than a home blood pressure cuff. It’s not even all that expensive to do year-round.
(I don’t think this should require a prescription, but in the US it currently does.)
> Fasting glucose and A1C tests done over the past few years show me at low risk for diabetes. But these tests don’t necessarily capture how much blood sugar “spikes” after meals–something that may be a better predictor of disease risk.
It's hard to take the author's concern seriously when he is at low risk. A better take is that he's just curious.
I don't even know how I'd go about measuring stress levels, but I did notice that there were two instances where my blood sugar staid elevated for much longer than it should have after lunch, and both times there was a somewhat stressful/non-routine situation (an interview, and riding a scooter across town).
[+] [-] lucas_membrane|7 years ago|reply
There is a far better wearable system ready to go but not in production, a combined sensor and automated insulin dispenser, that has passed human trials, but no one wants to go into production with it because of liability issues. Given that people are riding in self-driving cars and landing in aircraft on autopilot, each of which are also potentially fatal and involve a larger set of variables, I wonder if and how long it will take to progress in this regard.
[+] [-] pimeys|7 years ago|reply
If you're interested in using a closed loop, take a look into AndroidAPS or Loop, how to build one by yourself. It's all open source and works really well. Been a user for some years now. You just need to compile it by yourself and own the right hardware.
[+] [-] zby|7 years ago|reply
The delays make the comparison difficult. Also if it gets too high or low then people react and quickly change the slope of the graph, then the sugar level in the extracellular fluid would not reach the same extremum as the sugar in the blood.
[+] [-] DavideNL|7 years ago|reply
i have the same experience, the Libre was very inaccurate for me as well.
> There is a far better wearable system ready to go but not in production, a combined sensor and automated insulin dispenser, that has passed human trials, but no one wants to go into production with it because of liability issues.
Well there's this, even if it's not a "100% pancreas replacement" yet: https://www.medtronicdiabetes.com/products/minimed-670g-insu...
"Automatically adjusts your basal (background) insulin every five minutes based on your CGM readings."
[+] [-] troydavis|7 years ago|reply
Blog post: https://richardsprague.com/notes/cgm/cgm_analysis/
Slides from presentation last week: https://www.slideshare.net/richardsprague/quantified-self-se...
He also tweets about it: https://twitter.com/sprague
[+] [-] gwern|7 years ago|reply
> The sensor is applied to the back of the upper arm with a simple, disposable device called an applicator. When the sensor is applied, a small (5mm) filament is inserted just under the skin, and held in place with a small adhesive pad.
'Inserted just under the skin' means it's still invasive, but that sounds nicer than regular needle-sticks so perhaps 'less-invasive' would be a more accurate description.
[+] [-] uncleberg|7 years ago|reply
It's reliable enough - the biggest downfall is that it's around 15 minutes behind real-time, ie, what you can measure with blood. Sometimes it can feel 'stuck' too, and change rapidly between a short amount of time.
The second model, which I am waiting to try, includes Bluetooth alerts if a trend high or low is detected. This may make it even more useful.
[+] [-] westoncb|7 years ago|reply
I just got my first CGM, FreeStyle Libre 14 day, 2 days ago :) The relief I've already experienced from not having anxiety about where my blood sugar is at has been incredible. That said, being able to set alerts for lows/highs and not having to manually scan the sensor would be huge improvements.
The way I was checking blood sugar before (finger pricks) it seemed like I'd gain relatively little by using a pump, but now I'm thinking a pump may be indispensable if used in combination with a CGM: Since I can now see how my blood sugar is changing in near real-time, if I have errors in dose size, I'm going to want to be able to make small correction...
[+] [-] pimeys|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] georgebarnett|7 years ago|reply
I really like the real time data aspect which means I can access it easily on other devices.
I also still regularly use the official phone app to get a reading via NFC which suits certain circumstances for me and I find pretty accurate most of the time.
[+] [-] mrfusion|7 years ago|reply
That’s what I’d be most interested in. Folks conjecture that it’s your insulin response that causes weight gain rather than the blood sugar increase. They’re not as correlated as you’d expect!
Source https://www.google.com/amp/s/optimisingnutrition.com/2015/05...
[+] [-] beardface|7 years ago|reply
The Freestyle Libre and regular continuous glucose monitors measure glucose in the interstitial fluid under the skin - not blood. This is why the numbers can be wildly different to a blood glucose test done via finger-prick.
From what I've seen while researching very low carb diets, insulin levels are incredibly important and influence a lot of body chemistry. For example, someone without type 1 diabetes can have a normal blood glucose but only because they're producing an enormous amount of insulin. A large amount of insulin in the blood will cause fat to be stored, so the patient puts on weight.
[+] [-] jwr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] troydavis|7 years ago|reply
I believe the thinking is that people need a professional to discuss results with. I understand that perspective, but I don’t agree with it, and I definitely don’t agree that having someone to discuss results with should outweigh the increased access/adoption of over-the-counter sales. This is the first product that makes it practical - even easy - and completely painless for non-diabetics like me to track blood glucose informationally, so perhaps this will change. That said, the FDA has made other overly-conservative decisions, like disallowing fingerstick A1c tests (which don’t require fasting or a full venous blood draw) for first-pass screening of diabetes: http://www.onsitehealthdiagnostics.com/blog/a1c/, https://twitter.com/troyd/status/1018150306125758465.
[+] [-] beardface|7 years ago|reply
Here in the UK, I don't have a prescription (despite being type 1 diabetic) but occasionally self-fund the devices directly from Abbott. I get a VAT excemption so it costs ~£45 per unit, which lasts 2 weeks.
[+] [-] playa1|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] westwooded|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Vekz|7 years ago|reply
Tracking Blood Pressure
Tracking Blood Sugar
Chocolate Popcorn
Panna Cotta
[+] [-] guiambros|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ng12|7 years ago|reply
I mean... yes. They're a prescription medical device used by Type 1 diabetics to stay alive.
[+] [-] westoncb|7 years ago|reply
And more unfortunately, it has been my experience that information about managing blood sugar given to diabetics by doctors is almost uniformly quite bad (I've received the same sort of overly simplistic, misguided instructions from 4 or 5 different doctors myself; now I just nod and let them finish speaking). As a result, nearly every other (non-engineer/scientist) diabetic I've been met has very bad numbers (A1C: three month average blood glucose)—as I would have too were I to follow my doctors' advice. Instead I have very good numbers which are a result of research and reasoning I had to do myself.
[+] [-] atomical|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SpikeDad|7 years ago|reply
If you're wondering if you may be pre-diabetic then wouldn't an A1C test (home tests available and are very accurate) be a better diagnostic test?
[+] [-] DavideNL|7 years ago|reply
But HBA1C can sometimes still be good, even for people who have high & low glucose peaks.
Maybe because the average value will still be good if you have equal peaks "up" as "down"? i don't know..
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] arihant|7 years ago|reply
They are opaque on pricing, do not answer questions about where to buy, do not clearly state what kind of prescription they need.
[+] [-] bbrian|7 years ago|reply
https://imgur.com/a/24FhAON
http://intro.mydario.com/DarioGlucoseMeter/about.php
[+] [-] FabianBeiner|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bdcravens|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dboy1612|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fareesh|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SpikeDad|7 years ago|reply
The result is not considered as accurate compared to finger sticks but it's an option for people that can't really stick their fingers I guess.
They're mostly the more modern ones that don't need much blood. Also the ones I've purchased have a special attachment for the lancet device to accommodate the different location.
The ads do seem to imply that you don't need to use a lancet but that's just marketing and advertising. You still need to use a lancet to get a drop of blood.
[+] [-] phililippe|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrfusion|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pjc50|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phonon|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ouid|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] troydavis|7 years ago|reply
Make sure to get the 14-day version: https://www.freestylelibre.us/system-overview/freestyle-14-d.... It’s about $80 (cash to a pharmacy, not through insurance) and includes 2 14-day patches.
Over the next year or two, performing at least a few weeks of real-time monitoring per year will become standard practice among those who consciously monitor their health. With the Libre, doing a few weeks per year is no harder, and not much more expensive than a home blood pressure cuff. It’s not even all that expensive to do year-round.
(I don’t think this should require a prescription, but in the US it currently does.)
[+] [-] mtgx|7 years ago|reply
https://www.pkvitality.com/ktrack-glucose/
It works the same way. It's 2x more expensive but it's a watch.
[+] [-] atomical|7 years ago|reply
It's hard to take the author's concern seriously when he is at low risk. A better take is that he's just curious.
[+] [-] thisisnotmyname|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ejain|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jogundas|7 years ago|reply