Almost as important is the announcement that the current Apple JDK, 1.6, will still ship in Lion. Given the release cycle of Java 7, that's a big relief to Java users and given the HN crowd, budding Android developers. Moreover, it seems to quash the (ridiculous) rumours that OS X Lion will end up being some locked down antithesis of previous versions of OS X.
This is off-topic, but I'm amazed by the descriptions at the end of TFA (I know, I know, it's a press release, but still...)
Oracle is the world’s most complete, open and integrated business software and hardware systems company. (...)
Let's grant integrated and complete, but definitely not "open". Though this is dwarfed by Apple's incredible self-praise:
Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork, and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple is reinventing the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and has recently introduced its magical iPad which is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices.
Why? If you think your product is the best, say so. If you think your product is revolutionary, say so. If you think your product is magical, say so. If you think your product is defining the future, say so.
The only reason I can see to criticize a PR footer like that is if you think the company doesn't actually think of itself that way and is just trying to bullshit the reader.
Well, considering that whenever someone posts on a technical forum (such as HN) asking what laptop to get to run Linux, they receive a lot of recommendations that they get Macs, I don't think "best personal computers in the world" is too far out of line for Apple to claim.
iPods completely dominate portable music playback, and the iTunes store is one of the biggest sellers of music in the world (didn't they take #1 a while back?). That would justify "leads the digital music revolution".
Take a look at Android's UI design before the iPhone came out, and compare to after iPhone. Look familiar? Take a similar look at mobile app sales before and after iPhone. "Revolutionary" is an acceptable claim, considering how much the mobile phone industry changed in direct response to the iPhone.
That leaves the iPad, the only one on the list they may have overhyped in the press release. Sure, it blows away every other attempt at a tablet so far, but most of the other table makers trying to capitalize on the iPad's success seem to be aiming for smaller tablets, so we can't yet say the iPad is "defining the future".
You're using the wrong definition. "Open" in this context is the same as OpenVMS, Openstep, OpenLook, Openview, yadda yadda. Open standard, not open source.
Expecting humility from human beings is understandable. But why do you expect a company to be humble? Can you name companies that you think are humble?
The best way for our users to always have the most up to date and secure version of Java will be to get it directly from Oracle.
Contrast that with a recent quote from Bill Evans:
We're happy to continue to support Flash on the Mac, and the best way for users to always have the most up to date and secure version is to download it directly from Adobe.
It's like they're just toying with the tech press.
Or look at something like Chrome or Microsoft who says, all these application crashes point directly back to this product, we're going to write shims and provide auto-updaters, to get this problem under control.
I know Oracle is giving its back (not to say finger) to the Apache Foundation, but OpenJDK is a GPL-licensed version of the Java stack. Why is it bad (as in why so many complain) that Apple, Oracle and IBM cluster around OpenJDK? Why is the GPL not good enough?
It's not "clean", only JRE that have passed the TCK (Java Compatibility Kit) get the patent waiver, if you modify the JRE and don't get it re-certified then you lose the patent protection. And to get it certified you have to agree to a restrictive licence from Oracle. Sun promised Apache to make the TCK available under an open licence but this never happened.
IBM was previously putting pressure on Sun/Oracle to make the TCK available under the open licence to Apache that they had promised, since IBM have switched to OpenJDK, it removes that pressure and makes Java much more closed.
I don't think this has anything to do with that dispute (at least on Apple side). Rather, Apple wanted to lose the responsibility of bundling Java with Mac, but they couldn't abandon Java altogether.
"To set expectations, the first drop will be effectively a "SoyLatte"-level implementation, but is packaged as a Universal Mac OS X .jdk bundle that can be dropped directly into /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines. Over the coming weeks and months, we will be adding pieces and parts of our Java SE 6 implementation to the public project, and will cut over from using an X11-based AWT to a Cocoa NSEvent-based one with a new OpenGL-backed graphics layer.
There are several parts of our Java SE 6 implementation (like the AWT widgets) that are not contributable, in much the same way that several parts of Oracle's implementation are not. However, the vast majority of our Swing Aqua Look and Feel implementation is, as well as the eAWT/eIO API. We intend to host the legacy AWT widget set using lightweight peers, but that work is still in progress."
Mike Swingler (Apple Java Engineer) on the java-dev list
I wonder why they don't just release their existing AWT/Swing adaptations?
Either they are afraid of people using the Mac OS style on Windows, or that by open sourcing the style, they loose their copyright to it, or the code is such as mess that they'd rather not release it into the open.
Java will still be an "optional" install, much like Flash, Silverlight, et. al. Because Apple can't guarantee that it will be pre-loaded on every Mac, any apps listed in the Mac App Store that used Java wouldn't work on "factory" Macs. I'm guessing that's a deal-breaker for Jobs & co.
I expect it will be allowed only if you ship the JVM and runtime with your app. (And then I suppose Apple might reject you for your app being unreasonably large.)
The way people describe themselves in press releases is ridiculous:
"Oracle is the world’s most complete, open and integrated business software and hardware systems company. For more information about Oracle, please visit our Web site at www.oracle.com.
Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork, and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple is reinventing the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and has recently introduced its magical iPad which is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices."
"we will be adding pieces and parts of our Java SE 6 implementation to the public project, and will cut over from using an X11-based AWT to a Cocoa NSEvent-based one with a new OpenGL-backed graphics layer."
a) Even if it is only 5%, it is almost pure profit for Oracle. Many big companies would like to expand 5% for almost free.
b) The decision maker might run mac. No mac support, no sales. (One of my customers is like that). This is similar to the "American’s with Disabilities Act" which requires accesibility even though less than 5% of the users are disabled.
c) 5% is the average. Many companies aren't average, e.g. universities and research based companies.
You don't think that Apple has a bright future building computers? This deal wouldn't have made sense 5 years ago, but Apple is an important force right now and is poised to be a huge part of the future.
The fact that iPad and iPhone don't run Java right now isn't relevant. They very well might in the next 5 years. Things change fast!
My guess would be that that number is much higher for developers (at least not .NET developers). Just look around at conferences.
Heck, just look at this: http://james.gosling.usesthis.com/
It's actually closer to 10% if you look at the most recent numbers and discount machines that are not actually part of the market in any reasonable sense (e.g. nobody's going to be installing your software on their old cash register).
My personal hope is that they'll do enough work to make the OpenGL Swing backend actually work. When our web browsers are starting to have credible 3D acceleration on our platforms... it's pretty unacceptable that the Swing OpenGL pipeline is so broken.
[+] [-] archgrove|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swannodette|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pluies|15 years ago|reply
Oracle is the world’s most complete, open and integrated business software and hardware systems company. (...)
Let's grant integrated and complete, but definitely not "open". Though this is dwarfed by Apple's incredible self-praise:
Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork, and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple is reinventing the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and has recently introduced its magical iPad which is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices.
Woah there cowboy! A bit of humility maybe?
[+] [-] GHFigs|15 years ago|reply
Why? If you think your product is the best, say so. If you think your product is revolutionary, say so. If you think your product is magical, say so. If you think your product is defining the future, say so.
The only reason I can see to criticize a PR footer like that is if you think the company doesn't actually think of itself that way and is just trying to bullshit the reader.
[+] [-] tzs|15 years ago|reply
iPods completely dominate portable music playback, and the iTunes store is one of the biggest sellers of music in the world (didn't they take #1 a while back?). That would justify "leads the digital music revolution".
Take a look at Android's UI design before the iPhone came out, and compare to after iPhone. Look familiar? Take a similar look at mobile app sales before and after iPhone. "Revolutionary" is an acceptable claim, considering how much the mobile phone industry changed in direct response to the iPhone.
That leaves the iPad, the only one on the list they may have overhyped in the press release. Sure, it blows away every other attempt at a tablet so far, but most of the other table makers trying to capitalize on the iPad's success seem to be aiming for smaller tablets, so we can't yet say the iPad is "defining the future".
[+] [-] tertius|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brown9-2|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gaius|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xyi|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zmmmmm|15 years ago|reply
the project now has the backing of three of the biggest names in software
Hmm, who could they be?
[+] [-] stcredzero|15 years ago|reply
I think if they added "humility" to that list, it would've crossed a line.
[+] [-] samps|15 years ago|reply
The best way for our users to always have the most up to date and secure version of Java will be to get it directly from Oracle.
Contrast that with a recent quote from Bill Evans:
We're happy to continue to support Flash on the Mac, and the best way for users to always have the most up to date and secure version is to download it directly from Adobe.
It's like they're just toying with the tech press.
[+] [-] chc|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mey|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|15 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] rbanffy|15 years ago|reply
I know Oracle is giving its back (not to say finger) to the Apache Foundation, but OpenJDK is a GPL-licensed version of the Java stack. Why is it bad (as in why so many complain) that Apple, Oracle and IBM cluster around OpenJDK? Why is the GPL not good enough?
[+] [-] ig1|15 years ago|reply
IBM was previously putting pressure on Sun/Oracle to make the TCK available under the open licence to Apache that they had promised, since IBM have switched to OpenJDK, it removes that pressure and makes Java much more closed.
[+] [-] meemo|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vdm|15 years ago|reply
http://blogs.oracle.com/henrik/2010/11/oracle_and_apple_anno...
[+] [-] nwjsmith|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Hagelin|15 years ago|reply
There are several parts of our Java SE 6 implementation (like the AWT widgets) that are not contributable, in much the same way that several parts of Oracle's implementation are not. However, the vast majority of our Swing Aqua Look and Feel implementation is, as well as the eAWT/eIO API. We intend to host the legacy AWT widget set using lightweight peers, but that work is still in progress."
Mike Swingler (Apple Java Engineer) on the java-dev list
http://lists.apple.com/archives/Java-dev/2010/Nov/msg00104.h...
[+] [-] Nitramp|15 years ago|reply
Either they are afraid of people using the Mac OS style on Windows, or that by open sourcing the style, they loose their copyright to it, or the code is such as mess that they'd rather not release it into the open.
[+] [-] bradshaw1965|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ivanmantova|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mtinkerhess|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rcoder|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ianlevesque|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chc|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sudonim|15 years ago|reply
"Oracle is the world’s most complete, open and integrated business software and hardware systems company. For more information about Oracle, please visit our Web site at www.oracle.com.
Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork, and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple is reinventing the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and has recently introduced its magical iPad which is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices."
[+] [-] riobard|15 years ago|reply
Cocoa??
[+] [-] dekz|15 years ago|reply
http://lists.apple.com/archives/Java-dev/2010/Nov/msg00104.h...
[+] [-] yakisoft|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yakisoft|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tyrannosaurs|15 years ago|reply
This allows them to still be behind it without having to actually do the work.
[+] [-] Autre|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] silvestrov|15 years ago|reply
a) Even if it is only 5%, it is almost pure profit for Oracle. Many big companies would like to expand 5% for almost free.
b) The decision maker might run mac. No mac support, no sales. (One of my customers is like that). This is similar to the "American’s with Disabilities Act" which requires accesibility even though less than 5% of the users are disabled.
c) 5% is the average. Many companies aren't average, e.g. universities and research based companies.
[+] [-] cryptoz|15 years ago|reply
The fact that iPad and iPhone don't run Java right now isn't relevant. They very well might in the next 5 years. Things change fast!
[+] [-] rimantas|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chc|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonhendry|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonknee|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] haribilalic|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yoden|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Torn|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BonoboBoner|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aita|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] YooLi|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] technomancy|15 years ago|reply
"Not exactly. In this setting, the enemy of your enemy is still a floating, greasy, armored brain."
"Well, what about his enemy? Maybe you could be friends with him."
"No, because that guy is a mechanical horror in an undying battle shell. He sails from world to world in a flying tomb, serving gods who eat hope."
"So, probably not."
"Odds are low."
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/05/
[+] [-] blasdel|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chevas|15 years ago|reply