Meanwhile the hinge in my £600 Lenovo ideapad broke after 4 years of carrying it to university pretty much everyday. After a quick phone call they agreed to fix it free of charge (including return postage to Germany). This was because Lenovo had independently determined that my laptop model suffered from weak hinges. A year on, I am typing on that very same laptop. It is starting to show its age and its price. And you know what? When I do finally replace it, it is probably going to be another Lenovo. That is great customer service.
Meanwhile the richest company in the world fails to acknowledge a significant design flaw in their expensive, "Pro" laptop. Really, they should be willing, if not eager to replace the screens in every affected laptop free of charge. A laptop that fails after opening and closing the lid for a year or two is defective. There is should be no doubt about that.
I don't know how the laws stand in the US (it probably varies state by state), but in the UK with the 2015 Consumer Rights Act, customers have potentially up to five or six years to make a claim irrespective of warranty: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-...
I'll add that I have 3 T-series laptops. All are over 6 years old and still in great shape. The worst I've ever dealt with was a lose monitor cable after a drop. Build quality is only one of the reasons that I continue to recommend them over any other laptop.
I'm a web developer and lately I've been using less and less Photoshop, which was the sole reason I kept using a mac as my main dev platform.
I'm really wondering if my next machine is going to be a mac. I'm pretty sure I could be as productive with a beefy IBM Thinkpad or a Dell XPS running Ubuntu.
Everybody makes mistakes, and that's fine. The issue itself can be forgiven for a technical design flaw.
BUT, what is NOT fine is trying to censor customers who have paid a lot of money for these products, trying to voice their concerns. There is simply NO excuse for doing that.
I'm absolutely disgusted by how anyone can delete forum posts that have not violated forum rules simply for exposing the company's design fault. Why have an open forum in the first place then?
I can't believe what the morale amongst the Apple employees running these forums must be whose day job is to shut the voices of these customers on no valid basis. They probably got their orders higher up in their chain.
Absolutely appalling. I will NEVER recommend Apple products to anyone around me although I'm already invested with almost all of their computer products.
This has been going on with Apple for as far as I can remember. Apple puts out a new product, a significant number of people are affected by what seems to be a manufacturing defect, Apple suppresses mentions of it as much as they can, and a year or two later, they offer some kind of a remedy (usually free repairs) to whoever didn't rage sell or return their defective product. And because their machines are barely repairable, users can rarely fix the issue themselves.
This seems to work well for them, people keep clamouring for more overpriced apple hardware and are happy to run on Apple 's treadmill to buy the new iteration every year or two, while running the risk of getting a lemon yet again. So I'm guessing that's a valid strategic decision for Apple and that's why it continues unabated.
Man, how is it defensible that they delete forum posts talking about the issue? Same with denying keyboardgate, this firmly puts their products in my do-not-buy list, because they'll even deny being terrible product engineers when their products break and turn your money to paperweight.
Same thing happened during Radeongate, the GPU problem that affected thousands of 2011 MBP models.
My top of the line MBP 2011 died in 2013, 2.5 years after buying it. At that point Apple denied any problems.
Over a year later, with a couple of class action lawsuits on its back, Apple started a repair program. Of course I had already bought another machine to be able to work, so after repairing the 2011 I found myself with a very expensive MBP that was about 4 years old at this point. I didn't have a use for it and of course nobody wanted to buy it at a decent price because of its infamous problems. The expensive investment I made in 2011 went down the drain.
The repair program was just a dick move to avoid legal problems.
If Apple had wanted a fair compensation to their customers they would have taken those machines back and given 60% of the price paid in credit for buying Apple products, which is what a 3-4 year old Mac sells for.
After that I lost all faith in Apple and am much more careful with what I buy from them.
Probably close to a year ago, someone posted a cynical fictional example timeline of discovery of MBP problems, (deleted) threads in Apple's forum, Apples' (lack of and) eventual response and the fans' denials and acceptance throughout. It highlighted the stages of denial, censorship, acceptance, revision, etc. It was pretty snarky but would up being pretty on the nose given what happened in the subsequent months as it was more discussed, officially acknowledged and then somewhat addressed in a hardware revision.
I think about that comment every month or so when another MBP article pops up here. I'd be grateful for a link if anyone knows the HN comment I'm thinking of.
there's always been something odd about Apple's forums. You'll see that almost any post detailing a problem is immediately replied to by apologists telling the OP that somehow _they_ are at fault.
It’s defensible because people who have had a first gen of every new r/MBP for the last five years who experience no problems whatsoever (such as myself) do not take to the Apple support forums to post their counter anecdata, and Apple is a hardware vendor, and it would be terrible for people prior to sale to visit the Apple website (ie the support forums) and get a wildly inaccurate picture of hardware reliability from only seeing posts from a small fraction of people having problems. It's (self) selection set bias.
As a shareholder, I entirely support exercising this type of control of the message (on their own website). It is the right thing to do. Nobody has any right to have their words hosted on apple.com except Apple, and I would prefer that anyone with a sample size of less than ten not post negative things about their products on a site potential customers visit.
You may not agree with it, but this is a legitimate defense of what they are doing.
This is just awful. I would like to throw my hat into the ring with an anecdotal story that Dell was good to me in the past. It was a few days before the warranty gave out and a printer shorted the USB to 240V, a bang, flash of light and the magic smoke was gone. I contacted them asking whether the USB bus had poly fuses and they told me I had warranty (this was a second hand laptop and I wasn't aware of this). I sent it away, one week later a large number of components (motherboard, USB buses, sound board, webcam, etc) were replaced, as well as the keyboard that I hinted was unreliable.
My point is, something that was clearly accident and not a result of their product being faulty, they fixed the device for me with no questions asked. For that, a tip of the beanie and a future customer. I wish more customer-company relationships were like this and I hope that Dell don't change.
On a different note, can we please pass laws globally that:
1. Allow for the right to self/3rd party repair - where you can't sign an agreement to waiver those rights
2. Replacement parts at a sane price (markup), especially if the part to be fixed is the result of an engineering design fault
3. Prevent device manufacturers from making the process of dismantling a device a destructive one, i.e using glue, welds, etc
4. Internally used service materials should be freely available with the device (even if proof of ownership is required to access them) in the language of the Country being sold to
5. Increase the warranty for parts that shouldn't break quickly (modern laptops should last for at least 5 years) - i.e. the difference between a battery (expected to wear faster) and a CPU (not expected to wear)
6. Damage markers are not to be used to void warranty (i.e. Apple's water damage markers that can even be triggered by humidity)
What bothers me about Apple [since 2013] is the showboating about environmentalism in their corporate marketing, but the complete disregard for such things in their designs.
Their designs since 2014 have been the least environmentally friendly out of any company; encouraging consumers to throw heavy metals into the ecosystem without the slightest hope of repair. The 2012 Mac Mini was the same chassis as the 2014 but the repairability level is next to nil. The same story is on the current line of MacBooks.
E-Waste is the largest and most harmful stream of consumer waste an Apple is leading the way. It doesn't matter how many of your data centers are running on solar panels if all of that energy is being used to destroy the environment.
From what I understand they built special-purpose robots to disassemble the past several phone versions and recover most of the content. I imagine they can recover the glass and frame from laptops; not sure what happens to the microchips.
It would be interesting to see some data about how long a typical device from each manufacturer continues to see active use, and how often they get repaired. I am skeptical that e.g. the typical consumer-owned Dell/Asus/etc. laptop stays around any longer than typical Apple laptop. Anecdotally I know a bunch of people whose PC laptops were pieces of junk when they bought them, and didn’t last more than a couple years before they threw them out for a new model, and also some people who mostly buy used 3–4 year old Apple hardware.
There are lots of laptops which have better price/quality ratio than MacBooks. HP ZBook is one example, there are of course more. I've bought my previous HP EliteBook 6 years ago which was already in used condition, had better performance than MacBooks for fraction of their price. I had to switch to a newer HP model only because I've needed more than 8GB of RAM.
Some EliteBook/ZBook models have 2 slots for hard disks plus a DVD tray, which can be replaced to 3rd HDD slot. They can be plugged to a docking station that give them plenty of ports, even old ones like LPT or PS/2 should anyone need them. I really see no benefit of using a MacBookPro with 2 multifunction ports that requires buying expensive cable converters.
Enterprise-graded laptops (like EliteBooks) often allow upgrading the graphics card inside the laptop, because they often use the MXM slot.
I won't even mention the fact that RAM is never soldered in and can be replaced / extended if needed.
Keyboard is changable, so if a key will be damaged, user can buy a replacement keyboard and switch it after unscrewing 3 or 4 screws. Bought a laptop from Scandinavia? You can change the keyboard to your local one after buying it for $25.
Apple products quality is good, but they're overpriced to a level of ridicule.
Not to mention that the service manuals are public and very well written. The laptops are made to be serviceable. Not that one may need to, as the standard warranty is 3 years, on-site, worldwide. I was issued an elitebook at work. Liked it so much I bought my own, got stolen, bought a zbook. I cannot recomend them enough.
I am currently having issues with my 2018 Touchbar. The display has these quick, thin lines which flicker and appear. The anomalies are lines and checkered patterns composed of many different colours which appear for much less than a second and disappear quickly thereafter. I should note that the checkered patterns are across the whole display and uniform in colour, typically a shade of white or grey.
I have sent my Macbook Pro for repair three times now. Apple has replaced the board and display (as well as the keyboard for a different issue with the “E” key double-typing) and the issues are still present.
Apple told me to wait for a software update.
I bought a 2011 Macbook Air which I still use today. What are the odds that my 2018 laptop serves me until 2025?
The Pro I'm using right now is the 15" 2016 model, bought it brand new off the shelf, and had used several other models years prior to purchasing this one.
After less than 2 years of usage, the keyboard has hardly any buttons left that I haven't had to take out and clean out, and as a result -- break the clippings that hold them together.
There are also strange cracks below the screen area which makes me think the fabric is much cheaper this time around. And this whole touch bar thing... what a waste of my time and money. Absolutely unnecessary and horrendous.
If you watch Louis Rossmann's channel, who runs a component-level repair shop in NYC and campaigns/ed for Right to Repair, you'd know modern MacBook Pro's were poorly-designed, designed to wear out, and are expensive and difficult/impossible to repair. Memory: soldered in, SSD: soldered in, battery:
glued-in in several pieces, board diagrams: proprietary, test tools and utilities: proprietary, service knowledge-base and forums: exclusive, genuine parts: exclusive.
Older Macbook Pro were better but still have their issues. I have an A1278 MBP that sleeps spontaneously all the time because, in the palm rest by the HDD bracket, either the Hall effect sensor wore out or the bar above it (ferrous metal or magnet; magnets are around the screen) became too magnetized. Also, the screen hinges must be loosening or self-polishing, so the screen is getting floppier. I'll try tightening the set screws and maybe even Loctite them. https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup
Louis Rossmann spends countless hours talking about what he perceives as "design flaws" with Apple products but never offers anything resembling context. He is looking with a microscope—both literally and metaphorically—at tiny details on a circuit board which don't seem to be a problem for >99% of Apple's customers.
Are these points of failure really any more common on Apple devices than their competitors? Are other major manufacturers' products substantively better in any of these regards? Has he ever spoken to anyone who actually designs laptop circuit boards?
One of the interesting things I've noticed is that Apple product owners have a near-universal expectation of long life and durability, whereas owners of PC laptops are more likely to treat them as unfixable and/or disposable. I think this unspoken bias is playing deeply into the Rossmann perspective.
Now I don't doubt that a lot of what Louis says is technically correct, and if everyone in the independent repair industry was as competent as Louis is in 2019, he would probably have a point. But they're not, so he doesn't. Given the shoddy low standards that dominate the independent Apple device repair industry, it's unsurprising that Apple doesn't do anything to help them.
I have taken apart my 2018 MacBook Pro and there is no glue and it's no more difficult to repair than any of the other models. Provided you can get the parts of course.
Also the A1278 is at best a 6 year old machine. I would imagine it's pretty normal for there to be some wear/tear issues.
I mean I get it, it's popular to hate on apple because it makes money on youtube with the tech crowd. But what is most of the market facing?
Most of the market isn't upgrading ram. They aren't upgrading SSDs or batteries. They want their apple care to do it for them. I mean how many of these threads that self-select people with problems with their macs do we need? What are the real numbers?
It's not like Apple has a monopoly on laptops. There are plenty of other options. The competition is there. Yet Macbooks seem to be doing quite alright?
"Poorly-designed" seems to be the sort of thing that is incredibly subjective, and often declared with little objective truth. Even this stage light ribbon thing -- does anyone have any empirical numbers showing it's an actual problem? An anecdote is not data, and for any large scale manufacturing they generally test it for some huge number of activations/swings/opens/whatever before going with a design.
I don't want to be an Apple apologist -- their current laptops, one of which I purchased one week ago well into this stage light fiasco, are grossly overpriced (and AppleCare+ basically seems mandatory, so that was another $400 on my bill) and I wish they were more upgradable, but at the same time as much as we bemoan non-upgradability in practice extraordinarily few ever upgrade anything. At all. They just get their next laptop.
I just picked up the latest MacBook Air. I can literally see the display ribbon cables in the hinge area. They do not appear to be under as much tension as the Pro in the iFixit video, but I wonder if my Air will exhibit the same issue at 366 days after purchase...
The recent Macbook Pro's models are beginning to sound synonymous to "design flaw". How can such a super expensive highly sophisticated computer be unreliable that much. I guess that Apple now has hit the level-of-integration wall.
I love apple hardware and still have a $5000 latest-gen laptop from them and haven’t had any of the commonly described problems of the last half-dozen years... but I still find myself using my 16gb Pixelbook at least 5x more than my touchbar retina MBP while on the road. Something about the case, the keyboard, the aspect ratio... also ChromeOS is secure like iOS, and can run Real Linux in a VM. It’s an excellent machine. The only thing I super miss is iMessage and Facetime.
It seems to me the design flaw may actually be in the material of the ribbon cable itself; Apple has always been using slightly different plastics formulations (presumably for environmental or maybe cost reasons) than other manufacturers, and have had past issues with cracking and such.
I'm not sure what the material is, but the black cables they use don't look like regular (Kapton) ribbon cable to me. Ironically, it might be better being thinner, as then it can handle the same bend radius with less strain.
Edit: replacing the cable in the top half is very difficult yet probably still possible, judging by what the various Chinese phone repair shops have been able to do with glued-together screens.
I wanted a macbook pro but then keyboard issues stopped me. I was absloutely sure I would buy the new air, but I had seen some youtube videos where some keys would behave abnormally. So I'm still with my old air. Old one has served me well, and I guess I will just have to do without the retina display.
I was a mac user for 13 years - last year I switched away to Thinkpads. I really hope that the ones making decisions for the new mac mini are in charge of the next macbooks - maybe they become tenable again at some point. After all this, they still haven’t learned with the Air.
I love older thinkpads and have one as myback up/secondary device. However given the reapeated malware issues with Less, I would never purchase a new one.
“Stage light”! Thank you! I’ve been struggling to find help on that one.
I‘ve had that problem on a lot of my MacBook; I’d say most of the models 2012-2015. (I haven’t upgraded since.) I’m happy to pay for repairs: I just did on my power cable, the second time for that model, roughly every two years. Most of the time, I notice the problem at the peak of Summer, when I’ve been working like crazy, and internal temperature is likely far from bounds.
My biggest issue isn't design flaws (yes, you would expect fewer for a machine at that price) but findability. There is a ton of help online but it’s useless if I don’t know how to describe it in a search engine. I can’t take a screen capture; photos don’t show it well. Given the patterned look of the problem, the fact that I had it on several machines, I knew it was something explainable. I simply could not. Because it’s intermittent, bringing it to the Genius Bar is unhelpful.
If relevant posts are being deleted, that’s horrible. If Apple wants the problem (and the independent repairmen) to go away, offer a high-production description of the problem on your Help page; if you really feel the need to add some scaremongering that it’s too high-tech for independent shops to deal with it, but give that symptom a name.
From an environmental and ethical standpoint, I find it quite abhorrent how unrepairable these machines are. As iFixit said, this would be much less of an issue if the display cable could actually be changed.
Keyboard ( 2018 3rd Generation Butterfly keyboard Still have the same issues )
Now the hinge, or Flexcable.
Thunderbolt 3 / USB Port frying.
Just what more to come from these 2016+ MacBook Pro TouchBar.
I am typing this on a 2015 MacBook Pro with AppleCare running out next year. Not entirely sure what happens if this laptop have problem. I surely don't want any of the current MBP.
(Disclosure: I own a 2017 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar whose moving parts have not had any problem but whose sound/speakers [technically moving?] has been sent for warranty repairs twice.)
Another way of looking at the Touch Bar MacBook Pros is that the design of their moving parts is so flawed the entire product could probably be categorized as defective.
This is unacceptable and made even worse by their SOP of removing posts that expose them to liability.
Apple has not had hardware problems like this since the Sculley years and I'm very worried things will get worse for their general-purpose computing devices before they get better. (iPhones, for now, do not seem to have the same show-stopping usability issues.)
EDIT: add missing conjunction to first sentence. Replace closing parenthesis with square bracket.
[+] [-] consto|7 years ago|reply
Meanwhile the richest company in the world fails to acknowledge a significant design flaw in their expensive, "Pro" laptop. Really, they should be willing, if not eager to replace the screens in every affected laptop free of charge. A laptop that fails after opening and closing the lid for a year or two is defective. There is should be no doubt about that.
I don't know how the laws stand in the US (it probably varies state by state), but in the UK with the 2015 Consumer Rights Act, customers have potentially up to five or six years to make a claim irrespective of warranty: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-...
[+] [-] zcid|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fbnlsr|7 years ago|reply
I'm really wondering if my next machine is going to be a mac. I'm pretty sure I could be as productive with a beefy IBM Thinkpad or a Dell XPS running Ubuntu.
[+] [-] consto|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neya|7 years ago|reply
I'm absolutely disgusted by how anyone can delete forum posts that have not violated forum rules simply for exposing the company's design fault. Why have an open forum in the first place then?
I can't believe what the morale amongst the Apple employees running these forums must be whose day job is to shut the voices of these customers on no valid basis. They probably got their orders higher up in their chain.
Absolutely appalling. I will NEVER recommend Apple products to anyone around me although I'm already invested with almost all of their computer products.
[+] [-] adetrest|7 years ago|reply
This seems to work well for them, people keep clamouring for more overpriced apple hardware and are happy to run on Apple 's treadmill to buy the new iteration every year or two, while running the risk of getting a lemon yet again. So I'm guessing that's a valid strategic decision for Apple and that's why it continues unabated.
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] netsharc|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pier25|7 years ago|reply
My top of the line MBP 2011 died in 2013, 2.5 years after buying it. At that point Apple denied any problems.
Over a year later, with a couple of class action lawsuits on its back, Apple started a repair program. Of course I had already bought another machine to be able to work, so after repairing the 2011 I found myself with a very expensive MBP that was about 4 years old at this point. I didn't have a use for it and of course nobody wanted to buy it at a decent price because of its infamous problems. The expensive investment I made in 2011 went down the drain.
The repair program was just a dick move to avoid legal problems.
If Apple had wanted a fair compensation to their customers they would have taken those machines back and given 60% of the price paid in credit for buying Apple products, which is what a 3-4 year old Mac sells for.
After that I lost all faith in Apple and am much more careful with what I buy from them.
[+] [-] colemickens|7 years ago|reply
I think about that comment every month or so when another MBP article pops up here. I'd be grateful for a link if anyone knows the HN comment I'm thinking of.
[+] [-] vbuwivbiu|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] threeseed|7 years ago|reply
They offered an extended warranty and fixed the core issue in a subsequent design.
[+] [-] sneak|7 years ago|reply
As a shareholder, I entirely support exercising this type of control of the message (on their own website). It is the right thing to do. Nobody has any right to have their words hosted on apple.com except Apple, and I would prefer that anyone with a sample size of less than ten not post negative things about their products on a site potential customers visit.
You may not agree with it, but this is a legitimate defense of what they are doing.
[+] [-] bArray|7 years ago|reply
My point is, something that was clearly accident and not a result of their product being faulty, they fixed the device for me with no questions asked. For that, a tip of the beanie and a future customer. I wish more customer-company relationships were like this and I hope that Dell don't change.
On a different note, can we please pass laws globally that:
1. Allow for the right to self/3rd party repair - where you can't sign an agreement to waiver those rights
2. Replacement parts at a sane price (markup), especially if the part to be fixed is the result of an engineering design fault
3. Prevent device manufacturers from making the process of dismantling a device a destructive one, i.e using glue, welds, etc
4. Internally used service materials should be freely available with the device (even if proof of ownership is required to access them) in the language of the Country being sold to
5. Increase the warranty for parts that shouldn't break quickly (modern laptops should last for at least 5 years) - i.e. the difference between a battery (expected to wear faster) and a CPU (not expected to wear)
6. Damage markers are not to be used to void warranty (i.e. Apple's water damage markers that can even be triggered by humidity)
[+] [-] kwiens|7 years ago|reply
https://repair.org/stand-up/
There are hearings in three states on the topic this week: WA, SD, and NH. Get involved! Repair.org has a simple tool to write your legislator.
[+] [-] self_awareness|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] exabrial|7 years ago|reply
Their designs since 2014 have been the least environmentally friendly out of any company; encouraging consumers to throw heavy metals into the ecosystem without the slightest hope of repair. The 2012 Mac Mini was the same chassis as the 2014 but the repairability level is next to nil. The same story is on the current line of MacBooks.
E-Waste is the largest and most harmful stream of consumer waste an Apple is leading the way. It doesn't matter how many of your data centers are running on solar panels if all of that energy is being used to destroy the environment.
[+] [-] jacobolus|7 years ago|reply
From what I understand they built special-purpose robots to disassemble the past several phone versions and recover most of the content. I imagine they can recover the glass and frame from laptops; not sure what happens to the microchips.
It would be interesting to see some data about how long a typical device from each manufacturer continues to see active use, and how often they get repaired. I am skeptical that e.g. the typical consumer-owned Dell/Asus/etc. laptop stays around any longer than typical Apple laptop. Anecdotally I know a bunch of people whose PC laptops were pieces of junk when they bought them, and didn’t last more than a couple years before they threw them out for a new model, and also some people who mostly buy used 3–4 year old Apple hardware.
[+] [-] yoodenvranx|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AHTERIX5000|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] self_awareness|7 years ago|reply
Some EliteBook/ZBook models have 2 slots for hard disks plus a DVD tray, which can be replaced to 3rd HDD slot. They can be plugged to a docking station that give them plenty of ports, even old ones like LPT or PS/2 should anyone need them. I really see no benefit of using a MacBookPro with 2 multifunction ports that requires buying expensive cable converters.
Enterprise-graded laptops (like EliteBooks) often allow upgrading the graphics card inside the laptop, because they often use the MXM slot.
I won't even mention the fact that RAM is never soldered in and can be replaced / extended if needed.
Keyboard is changable, so if a key will be damaged, user can buy a replacement keyboard and switch it after unscrewing 3 or 4 screws. Bought a laptop from Scandinavia? You can change the keyboard to your local one after buying it for $25.
Apple products quality is good, but they're overpriced to a level of ridicule.
[+] [-] zubiaur|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dingo_bat|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] cced|7 years ago|reply
I have sent my Macbook Pro for repair three times now. Apple has replaced the board and display (as well as the keyboard for a different issue with the “E” key double-typing) and the issues are still present.
Apple told me to wait for a software update.
I bought a 2011 Macbook Air which I still use today. What are the odds that my 2018 laptop serves me until 2025?
Are the days of high resale values for Macs over?
[+] [-] hypochondria|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skilled|7 years ago|reply
After less than 2 years of usage, the keyboard has hardly any buttons left that I haven't had to take out and clean out, and as a result -- break the clippings that hold them together.
There are also strange cracks below the screen area which makes me think the fabric is much cheaper this time around. And this whole touch bar thing... what a waste of my time and money. Absolutely unnecessary and horrendous.
[+] [-] heyjudy|7 years ago|reply
Older Macbook Pro were better but still have their issues. I have an A1278 MBP that sleeps spontaneously all the time because, in the palm rest by the HDD bracket, either the Hall effect sensor wore out or the bar above it (ferrous metal or magnet; magnets are around the screen) became too magnetized. Also, the screen hinges must be loosening or self-polishing, so the screen is getting floppier. I'll try tightening the set screws and maybe even Loctite them. https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup
[+] [-] sjwright|7 years ago|reply
Are these points of failure really any more common on Apple devices than their competitors? Are other major manufacturers' products substantively better in any of these regards? Has he ever spoken to anyone who actually designs laptop circuit boards?
One of the interesting things I've noticed is that Apple product owners have a near-universal expectation of long life and durability, whereas owners of PC laptops are more likely to treat them as unfixable and/or disposable. I think this unspoken bias is playing deeply into the Rossmann perspective.
Now I don't doubt that a lot of what Louis says is technically correct, and if everyone in the independent repair industry was as competent as Louis is in 2019, he would probably have a point. But they're not, so he doesn't. Given the shoddy low standards that dominate the independent Apple device repair industry, it's unsurprising that Apple doesn't do anything to help them.
[+] [-] threeseed|7 years ago|reply
Also the A1278 is at best a 6 year old machine. I would imagine it's pretty normal for there to be some wear/tear issues.
[+] [-] ntsplnkv2|7 years ago|reply
Most of the market isn't upgrading ram. They aren't upgrading SSDs or batteries. They want their apple care to do it for them. I mean how many of these threads that self-select people with problems with their macs do we need? What are the real numbers?
It's not like Apple has a monopoly on laptops. There are plenty of other options. The competition is there. Yet Macbooks seem to be doing quite alright?
[+] [-] endorphone|7 years ago|reply
I don't want to be an Apple apologist -- their current laptops, one of which I purchased one week ago well into this stage light fiasco, are grossly overpriced (and AppleCare+ basically seems mandatory, so that was another $400 on my bill) and I wish they were more upgradable, but at the same time as much as we bemoan non-upgradability in practice extraordinarily few ever upgrade anything. At all. They just get their next laptop.
[+] [-] macbookcabler|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kzrdude|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dschuetz|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nicoburns|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xfitm3|7 years ago|reply
I use macbooks. The display is great and I do like that macos typically just works. No futzing. I'm on iOS because I trust Android less.
It's the lesser of two evils, unfortunately.
[+] [-] sneak|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] userbinator|7 years ago|reply
I'm not sure what the material is, but the black cables they use don't look like regular (Kapton) ribbon cable to me. Ironically, it might be better being thinner, as then it can handle the same bend radius with less strain.
Edit: replacing the cable in the top half is very difficult yet probably still possible, judging by what the various Chinese phone repair shops have been able to do with glued-together screens.
[+] [-] type-2|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] m_mueller|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] henripro|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chvid|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bertil|7 years ago|reply
I‘ve had that problem on a lot of my MacBook; I’d say most of the models 2012-2015. (I haven’t upgraded since.) I’m happy to pay for repairs: I just did on my power cable, the second time for that model, roughly every two years. Most of the time, I notice the problem at the peak of Summer, when I’ve been working like crazy, and internal temperature is likely far from bounds.
My biggest issue isn't design flaws (yes, you would expect fewer for a machine at that price) but findability. There is a ton of help online but it’s useless if I don’t know how to describe it in a search engine. I can’t take a screen capture; photos don’t show it well. Given the patterned look of the problem, the fact that I had it on several machines, I knew it was something explainable. I simply could not. Because it’s intermittent, bringing it to the Genius Bar is unhelpful.
If relevant posts are being deleted, that’s horrible. If Apple wants the problem (and the independent repairmen) to go away, offer a high-production description of the problem on your Help page; if you really feel the need to add some scaremongering that it’s too high-tech for independent shops to deal with it, but give that symptom a name.
[+] [-] willtim|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ksec|7 years ago|reply
Now the hinge, or Flexcable.
Thunderbolt 3 / USB Port frying.
Just what more to come from these 2016+ MacBook Pro TouchBar.
I am typing this on a 2015 MacBook Pro with AppleCare running out next year. Not entirely sure what happens if this laptop have problem. I surely don't want any of the current MBP.
[+] [-] mistersquid|7 years ago|reply
Another way of looking at the Touch Bar MacBook Pros is that the design of their moving parts is so flawed the entire product could probably be categorized as defective.
This is unacceptable and made even worse by their SOP of removing posts that expose them to liability.
Apple has not had hardware problems like this since the Sculley years and I'm very worried things will get worse for their general-purpose computing devices before they get better. (iPhones, for now, do not seem to have the same show-stopping usability issues.)
EDIT: add missing conjunction to first sentence. Replace closing parenthesis with square bracket.