Dude, you had some unfortunate life events piled on top of each other causing turmoil. I sincerely don't wish that to happen to anyone and I congratulate you on feeling better, but..
I want to point out that your episode is not to be compared with actual sustained major depression, which will _eat you alive_. So utterly and completely will your soul be crushed that taking your own life will feel redundant, unnecessary. You have literally no idea of how deep this rabbit hole goes, thank god, but your advice trivialises the depth of depression and I have to wonder how this got so high on HN.. This is a blog with one post, one.
I completely agree, what the author of the posts describes is traumatic life events, which often can be confused with clinical depression. Clinical depression is frequently worsened with analytic thinking, as analytic thinking, when depressed, reinforces the depression and doesn't pull you out of it.
In clinical depression your brain chemistry is off in a way that doesn't rebound easily. Just "thinking about solving the problem" doesn't actually work and typically worsens symptoms.
There's a reason why mindfulness and meditation show great results when used to treat reoccurring clinical depression. It's expressly because it allows you to escape analytical thinking and "doing" modes of thought.
I suspect this climbed quickly on hacker news for two reasons. First the type of people that frequent here are intellectual types that believe "thinking about problems" is the best way to solve a problem and depression is just another problem to be solved. The second is the way that HackerNews ranks posts, where an upvoted post with a high/near equal number of comments rockets to the first page.
The blog post is purely anecdotal, lacks any scientific basis, lacks a medical diagnosis, and suggests an oversimplified solution to a complex problem that the author is not an expert on.
In essence it's a crap post promoting a rock climbing book.
I think his advice is garbage, but it doesn't trivialize depression at all. Depression is an umbrella term, he's speaking honestly about his own experience. It's still "depression".
There's always this sort of reaction anytime someone shares solutions, for severe depression or otherwise, casting it as patronizing and demanding more caveats and tip-toeing. You'd think they'd rather see wallowing in self-pity. In no instance are these meant to reflect personal failures.
Bizarrely, and maybe even unethically since we're talking about depression here, I think this blog post is a not too subtle way to sell their book on rock climbing.
"But your depression isn't /real/ depression^(tm)"
Stop it with the depression olympics nonsense. That doesn't help anyone. Your depression isn't an identity and it can't be appropriated.
Furthermore, while you think you're putting out a defense of those with /real/ deression^(tm), you may actually be doing harm, because you might cause those with depression to feel even worse as they could start thinking of themselves as impostors.
The recurring theme in almost all accounts of depression that I've read is the lack of will and/or care to get out of the state (and/or care for much of anything).
This guy had a real problem - several of them, actually, and I admire him for pulling himself by the bootstraps going up; and for avoiding paralysis which is indeed an issue in situations like this. But being depressed for specific reasons (marriage failure, financial problems), solvable or not, is very different from clinical depression - which may look similar on the outside, but doesn't have a good reason.
I don't want to belittle anyone or anything, but ... I've read countless descriptions of depression, and this one is unlike the others. The author may have suffered from real depression, but I don't believe his experience is applicable to other cases.
To each his own, but the reason I'm pointing this out is to (hopefully) stop HNrs who are unaware of this, who may show this to their clinically depressed friends or family and say "see, you just need some analytical thinking". It may work - some people manage to overcome schizophrenia with analytical thinking - but they are AFAIK a tiny minority.
I know some people, who are in complete paralysis thanks to (overly) analytic thinking. On the other hand, from all the people I know having a major depression, nobody was able to advance simply by analyzing, deciding, acting, and without help. That said, it might worked for the author, but I doubt that it would work that smoothly for the majority of people with problem paralysis, let alone depression.
I wonder if it's not so much analytical thinking as opposed to just going out and doing something. Several forms of depression are exacerbated by ruminative thinking [1]. I'm not sure many depressed people would be able to successfully navigate the steps involved for analytical thinking without falling back into rumination.
Rather than attempting analytical thinking first, I think it'd be much easier to initiate a simple activity, walk around the block, see a happy movie, visit a bookstore. Once one gets out of this cycle of ruminative thinking can one have the wherewithal to begin analytical thinking.
Lest anyone take the advice in the OP to heart, there is no shame in obtaining a bankruptcy discharge - it's just another tool in your financial toolbox. Moreover, it's needlessly stressful and harmful to struggle under the burden of managing someone else's debt while also going through a divorce and suffering a serious illness. I marvel at the dude's strength and if he were participating in the comment thread I'd ask if in retrospect he'd change anything.
There is shame in breaking a promise. Bankruptcy breaks a promise. Being a tool in your toolbox, even being necessary some times, doesn't neutralize a shamefully act, to the extent that your choices contributed to it.
One of the most insidious aspects of depression is thinking that you can solve it easily on your own. Holding the idea of "if I just do x, y, and z then I'll be ok" in front of you, then consistently failing cements the feeling that it's "your fault".
My depression only lifted after I switched to keto, I've been depressed for 30 years. Low energy and everything was a drag until the switch... People(psychiatrists and psychologists) don't want to hear it, but food is connected to how we feel.
I think this is understated. I went a different direction, but all the same, I think self-experimentation / personal science is worthwhile to that end. Diet and exercise should be the first line of defense.
> My first real experience with depression occurred when I was 25. I had recently separated from my ex-wife, and our divorce was pending.
> My ex-wife had a tumultuous upbringing — her mother walked out on the family when she was eight, and her father died when she was 19, leaving her effectively the head of her household which included two younger brothers. She was at a time of great need, and we decided to get married because we were deeply in love, and I wanted to contribute to her stability.
Incredible amount of red flags here for a working marriage. I'm sorry this happened to OP, but I'm really surprised his parents didn't try to stop this way before it happened.
This corroborates how I got out of my own depression. No episode in particular caused it, just growing up around shitty people that mined my self-confidence and social skills.
How did I get out of it? Just like the author, a switch flipped. I could keep the status quo and be miserable, or I could do something about It. Read that again: We require a definition of "It".
I did therapy for years, which helped me learn how to organize my feelings and know myself better. What happened is that eventually I was able to identify all of what was making me sick - before that, I couldn't put it into words, I was simply miserable.
In my particular case it stemmed from spending my early childhood in a first world country and moving back to our third world country when I was 7. Dealing with the aggressiveness and irrationality of my native culture is something that left me unable to successfully integrate in that society. This in turn of course means I had few friends, trouble finding a girlfriend and difficulty entertaining myself. I had to find a way out. Moving out of course would be difficult. Third world salaries, family didn't support my decision to leave the country, no good way to insert myself in a first world society with security.
Fast forward 10 years: I managed to immigrate back into the first world through an education visa and convert it into a work visa. Have stable work with good pay, like-minded friendships, amazing girlfriend.
I still have "scars" from back then: some social awkwardness is still there, and sometimes I have blue days. But I know how to manage myself and work to identify and attend to what's bothering me.
The takeaway for me (not a doctor) is that some forms of depression manifest themselves in a healthy nervous system that's exposed to an adverse environment. We have some control over the environments we're in and that's where we should act.
Standard disclaimer - still look for a doctor. Therapy was enough for me, but it may be the case you needs drugs. Seek help. While you don't have to do this alone, you can take ownership and try to solve your problems, even though it might take years. It's worth fighting for.
Depression is an umbrella term that covers a wide range of experience, and includes different types of illness.
That makes a clumsy title -- "I solved the particular sub-type of depression I was experiencing with analytical thinking". We don't need that cumbersome language if we just remember that the word depression covers different stuff.
chicken and egg, are you in depression because of the problems you have ? Then solving them one by one will eventually end up removing depression (that was the case for me)
[+] [-] drinfinity|7 years ago|reply
I want to point out that your episode is not to be compared with actual sustained major depression, which will _eat you alive_. So utterly and completely will your soul be crushed that taking your own life will feel redundant, unnecessary. You have literally no idea of how deep this rabbit hole goes, thank god, but your advice trivialises the depth of depression and I have to wonder how this got so high on HN.. This is a blog with one post, one.
[+] [-] devinjflick|7 years ago|reply
In clinical depression your brain chemistry is off in a way that doesn't rebound easily. Just "thinking about solving the problem" doesn't actually work and typically worsens symptoms.
There's a reason why mindfulness and meditation show great results when used to treat reoccurring clinical depression. It's expressly because it allows you to escape analytical thinking and "doing" modes of thought.
I suspect this climbed quickly on hacker news for two reasons. First the type of people that frequent here are intellectual types that believe "thinking about problems" is the best way to solve a problem and depression is just another problem to be solved. The second is the way that HackerNews ranks posts, where an upvoted post with a high/near equal number of comments rockets to the first page.
The blog post is purely anecdotal, lacks any scientific basis, lacks a medical diagnosis, and suggests an oversimplified solution to a complex problem that the author is not an expert on.
In essence it's a crap post promoting a rock climbing book.
[+] [-] Causality1|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slothtrop|7 years ago|reply
There's always this sort of reaction anytime someone shares solutions, for severe depression or otherwise, casting it as patronizing and demanding more caveats and tip-toeing. You'd think they'd rather see wallowing in self-pity. In no instance are these meant to reflect personal failures.
[+] [-] mykowebhn|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rezeroed|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RandomInteger4|7 years ago|reply
Stop it with the depression olympics nonsense. That doesn't help anyone. Your depression isn't an identity and it can't be appropriated.
Furthermore, while you think you're putting out a defense of those with /real/ deression^(tm), you may actually be doing harm, because you might cause those with depression to feel even worse as they could start thinking of themselves as impostors.
[+] [-] beagle3|7 years ago|reply
This guy had a real problem - several of them, actually, and I admire him for pulling himself by the bootstraps going up; and for avoiding paralysis which is indeed an issue in situations like this. But being depressed for specific reasons (marriage failure, financial problems), solvable or not, is very different from clinical depression - which may look similar on the outside, but doesn't have a good reason.
I don't want to belittle anyone or anything, but ... I've read countless descriptions of depression, and this one is unlike the others. The author may have suffered from real depression, but I don't believe his experience is applicable to other cases.
To each his own, but the reason I'm pointing this out is to (hopefully) stop HNrs who are unaware of this, who may show this to their clinically depressed friends or family and say "see, you just need some analytical thinking". It may work - some people manage to overcome schizophrenia with analytical thinking - but they are AFAIK a tiny minority.
[+] [-] blastbeat|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mykowebhn|7 years ago|reply
Rather than attempting analytical thinking first, I think it'd be much easier to initiate a simple activity, walk around the block, see a happy movie, visit a bookstore. Once one gets out of this cycle of ruminative thinking can one have the wherewithal to begin analytical thinking.
[1] https://psychcentral.com/blog/why-ruminating-is-unhealthy-an...
[+] [-] howard941|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hirundo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sammycdubs|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] aszantu|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slothtrop|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stiff|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] antisthenes|7 years ago|reply
> My ex-wife had a tumultuous upbringing — her mother walked out on the family when she was eight, and her father died when she was 19, leaving her effectively the head of her household which included two younger brothers. She was at a time of great need, and we decided to get married because we were deeply in love, and I wanted to contribute to her stability.
Incredible amount of red flags here for a working marriage. I'm sorry this happened to OP, but I'm really surprised his parents didn't try to stop this way before it happened.
[+] [-] rmellow|7 years ago|reply
How did I get out of it? Just like the author, a switch flipped. I could keep the status quo and be miserable, or I could do something about It. Read that again: We require a definition of "It".
I did therapy for years, which helped me learn how to organize my feelings and know myself better. What happened is that eventually I was able to identify all of what was making me sick - before that, I couldn't put it into words, I was simply miserable.
In my particular case it stemmed from spending my early childhood in a first world country and moving back to our third world country when I was 7. Dealing with the aggressiveness and irrationality of my native culture is something that left me unable to successfully integrate in that society. This in turn of course means I had few friends, trouble finding a girlfriend and difficulty entertaining myself. I had to find a way out. Moving out of course would be difficult. Third world salaries, family didn't support my decision to leave the country, no good way to insert myself in a first world society with security.
Fast forward 10 years: I managed to immigrate back into the first world through an education visa and convert it into a work visa. Have stable work with good pay, like-minded friendships, amazing girlfriend.
I still have "scars" from back then: some social awkwardness is still there, and sometimes I have blue days. But I know how to manage myself and work to identify and attend to what's bothering me.
The takeaway for me (not a doctor) is that some forms of depression manifest themselves in a healthy nervous system that's exposed to an adverse environment. We have some control over the environments we're in and that's where we should act.
Standard disclaimer - still look for a doctor. Therapy was enough for me, but it may be the case you needs drugs. Seek help. While you don't have to do this alone, you can take ownership and try to solve your problems, even though it might take years. It's worth fighting for.
[+] [-] luckylion|7 years ago|reply
Rather: you're getting out of your depression and that allows you to tackle problems.
[+] [-] DanBC|7 years ago|reply
That makes a clumsy title -- "I solved the particular sub-type of depression I was experiencing with analytical thinking". We don't need that cumbersome language if we just remember that the word depression covers different stuff.
[+] [-] 1337shadow|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]