Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

[ddoolin]

> “The actual and intended effect of these prohibitions is to bar Huawei from significant segments of the U.S. market for telecommunications equipment and services, thereby inflicting immediate and ongoing economic, competitive, and reputational harms on Huawei,” the company’s lawyers wrote in the suit.

This is incredulously ironic coming from a Chinese company. China, who sets up just about every barrier imaginable to foreign companies. Do they also lobby the Chinese government in favor of easing restrictions on those foreign businesses? I'm not saying we should follow their lead or really commenting on the merits at all, but I just find these times to be quite strange & humorous indeed.

[thetechlead]

You are confusing Chinese companies with Chinese government. In most areas, whatever restrictions/laws on foreign businesses, are also put on Chinese companies (private). Most foreign companies lost Chinese market due to fierce competition from local counterparts, not any imaginable barrier. Back in 2000s, Chinese government even gave green light when Huawei tried to sell [ref] itself to Motorola, but only been turned down by the American side, and in the past few months Huawei ascends from nowhere to the #1 target of US spy agencies. See the irony?

edit ref: https://www.ft.com/content/fa8e7ab4-3905-11e9-b856-5404d3811...

[rjf72]

Economic systems aren't built on benevolence. The reason the US has the economic system it does is because they believe it to be the most 'effective' system by various metrics. Incidentally that's the exact same reason that China has the system it does. As a comparable example the reason the founding fathers built freedom of speech deep into the US constitution was not because they liked people saying naughty or unpopular things, but because they felt that systems in which those in power could control what those out of power could say was counter-productive to building and maintaining a strong nation. We do these things not because they are 'good' but because they are optimal.

That's what makes this issue so interesting. On paper we've fully embraced globalism while China has embraced outward globalism and inward nationalism. In reality the US market is still completely dominated by US companies or by companies from 'friendly' nations. E.g. in smartphones South Korea and USA make up the vast majority of all sales.

But now 'unfriendly' nations are increasingly creating products that are becoming not only competitive but in some cases industry leading. So we find ourselves in the position of countries such as China. Do you allow companies from 'unfriendly' nations to setup and start on what may be a path to dominance, or do you give unfair preference to domestic/'friendly' products? We never had this issue before because final product competition from 'unfriendly' nations was negligible!

And this is before you get into all the intelligence intrigue going on behind the scenes. The NSA has stated they have access to "extensive, in-depth surveillance on live communications and stored information" [1] on the products of 'participating' companies including Google, Apple, Microsoft, and others. Suffice to say companies such as Huawei are less likely to 'participate' in such activities.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)

[pyrale]

I don't see what is ironic about a company playing along with international trade rules set by the US, a country that also defends their internal market (e.g. buy american act, recent tariffs on steel, etc.)

[ganoushoreilly]

It's definitely a case of using the somewhat fair US court systems to enforce a do as we say not as we do scenario.

I imagine the USG will envoke national security protections to limit exposure of any information as they have in the past.

I don't really see this case going anywhere, more so with EU countries making similar claims and allegations of their operating practices.

[plugger]

I also find Huawei's position quite rich given they built their product stack from stealing Nortel IP in the 2000s.

[ratling]

Yeah all of Huawei’s complaining is a joke. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re being strongly requested to push this line by Chinese intelligence.

If I am not doing business in China, Russia, Vietnam, or South America the first thing I do in any environment is block those countries and LACNIC. Instantly my production security alerts drop by 2/3 and I get to sleep at night.

[TaylorGood]

Is it me or has Huawei only appeared in media the last few months? All my years of reading HN, etc. and no recollection until recent controvery. Feels like they’ve managed to stir many waters in record time. For a company founded in 1987, what gave?

[rakoo]

Huawei, and the Chinese industry in general is at the forefront of 5G coming soon, and the West is mad that China can be more advanced than them and scared that all the equipment we use for deploying 5G is from them and, consequently, full of (not backdoors) spying capabilities.

As someone whose country isn't part of five eyes, the hypocrisy makes me quietly laugh.

(Edit: updated for less gratuitous accusations)

[mmanfrin]

Huawei made the Nexus 8P and has been in the news pretty regularly over the past few years. There has been a lot of recent media coverage because of this issue. You have been hearing more about them because there has been more newsworthy events, but they have been in the news for a while.

[CalRobert]

I think they've been bigger in Europe. I have a 3g dongle I got in 2013 in Ireland that's from Huawei. Every single "mobile broadband modem" that the providers here give you is from Huawei, annoyingly.

[grwthckrmstr]

How come nobody talks about the NSA or other US secret agencies to spy on people while simultaneously dissing Huawei for "allegedly" building backdoors to spy on the public?

Help.me.understand...

[rgbrenner]

None of the 5g infrastructure providers are American. The choice isn’t between Huawei and an American company.. it’s between Huawei and a European or Japanese company.

[techie128]

It is unbelievable that Huawei can do this in US and pretty much in any democratic country. The reverse is absolutely not true. The Chinese government has used every tool at its disposal to make life miserable for foreign competitors - see Google's exit, AWS, Apple, Uber and countless other companies were / are still being harassed. When was the last time a foreign company won a court case in China against its local competitor and Chinese government took any adverse action against the local company?

[TobbenTM]

So do you want us all to sink to their level, or actually be the democratic countries we pretend to be?

[zaphirplane]

The courts interpret the law, the government can pass a law to level the playing field

[stevefan1999]

And I believe westerners could start a class action on Huawei as well