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US citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021

218 points| daegloe | 7 years ago |cnn.com | reply

256 comments

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[+] rmind|7 years ago|reply
The article mixes two seaparate issues:

- EU is introducing ETIAS, an electronic authorisation system which is pretty much modeled after the US ESTA system (used by visa-free nationals). It will apply to all countries which currently enjoy the visa-free regime with the EU and that includes USA. So, technically it is not a visa, but your details will be pre-checked and it will cost €7 (compared to $14 for US ESTA). Ironically, after Brexit, this requirement will also apply to UK.

- There is a separate dispute between EU and US, because US imposes visas on five EU states (Bulgaria, Croatia, Poland, Romania and Cyprus). According the EU law, all EU countries should be treated equally or otherwise reciprocal measures should apply. There have been calls within the EU to respond tit for tat and impose EU visas on US citizens, if the issue does not get resolved soon.

As an EU citizen, I can just add that I support both initiatives.

[+] zaroth|7 years ago|reply
Tit for tat is a great model in pre-school. The more mature response is to investigate the underlying issues.

Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling “We are EU, you must treat us all the same” there could be some acknowledgement that travelers from those countries are disproportionately overstayers and there is a justifiable reason to need to more closely track them.

If US travelers are overstaying in any particular EU countries, I would expect and appreciate the same measures would be put in place.

Policy should be set based on the reality on the ground and not merely policital fantasy.

If those countries citizens are not in fact disproportionate over-stayers than the US should change their policy and apologize.

EDIT: This short brief [1] seems to imply there’s room for improvement on the US side. I don’t quite understand why the subjective visa refusal rate is so high for some of these countries when the overstay rate is so low. Unless you argue that the refusals are preventing the overstays, but that is very much unproven.

[1] - https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/2018-01/IB4812....

[+] zamfi|7 years ago|reply
As an EU citizen who wants for “EU countries should be treated equally”, you might want to start at home — Schengen doesn’t include (some of) the countries you listed and citizens of (some of) those countries don’t have the same work rights across the EU itself already.

It feels like major hypocrisy to ask the US to treat nationals from those countries equally when the EU itself does not.

[+] asabjorn|7 years ago|reply
If you try to look for a cause the countries in question seem to be in the EU block that is the source of much within-EU immigration tension. Immigrating to the US legally is hard, and for someone with few opportunities in their home countries the incentives are higher to find a way to work immigrate to the US. Legal or otherwise. Incentives are different in each direction because working illegally in the rich EU countries is almost impossible, while it is normal in the US.

If there is an underlying issue of overstaying when people come from some EU countries where there is an economic incentive to go to the US, then one can understand that the US will respond by imposing visa requirements to ameliorate that.

Therefore if overstaying is not a concern when going from the US to the EU then imposing the same requirement in reverse is more of an emotional concern, which might be the right choice if ones goal is to have the EU act as a whole emotionally.

[+] raincom|7 years ago|reply
Right now, US has a policy that allows no more than 7% of permanent residents from any country. Right now, every member state of EU can have no more than 7%. However, If they can present EU as an unified federation (just like USA), US should impose 7% rule on the EU as a whole.
[+] Tsubasachan|7 years ago|reply
Border control should be based on facts not petty politics.

What problems does the US have with travelers from Croatia or Cyprus? Explain it and maybe they can fix it and we can move on.

[+] benj111|7 years ago|reply
Why do you support the ETIAS initiative?

As a EU citizen I benefit from freedom of movement within the EU, why would I want extra barriers being erected between nations?

I struggle to see a benefit here, just downsides.

Edit: I don't seem to have been clear. I know intra EU travel will remain unencumbered, my point was to illustrate that both the parent and I have been benefiting from that unencumbered travel, so why go the opposite way with other nations.

[+] panarky|7 years ago|reply
> Ironically, after Brexit, this requirement will also apply to UK

If by "Ironically" you mean "Therefore".

[+] jdavis703|7 years ago|reply
As a US citizen who travels to the Schengen area frequently, I also support these measures. Our world needs more open borders and more freedom of movement. I hope this puts pressure on the US government to implement visa policies that support freedom.
[+] Havoc|7 years ago|reply
> There have been calls within the EU to respond tit for tat

Require everyone from Texas to obtain a Visa. Maybe then the message will sink in

[+] hartator|7 years ago|reply
The thing is EU is still not a country. It’s not as easy for a Bulgarian to go live in France and claim French citizenship compared to a Californian fully moving to Texas.
[+] SyneRyder|7 years ago|reply
This is really bad reporting. It isn't just US citizens, click here for a list of the 57 countries that will also require ETIAS in 2021:

https://etias.com/about-etias/who-needs-etias

It even includes the island of Palau and their population of 20,000 people:

https://etias.com/about-etias/etias-for-palauan-citizens

This has nothing to do specifically with the US.

[+] Scoundreller|7 years ago|reply
It’s funny to see the scam sites launch so quickly, just so they can charge 50 EUR in 2021 for sending in your 7 EUR application.
[+] runxel|7 years ago|reply
Well, the US has never been good in terms of caring of other countries. This also just applies when it comes down to reporting...
[+] Simulacra|7 years ago|reply
This is in response to security concerns for some EU countries, so it's really just a political tit for tat.

"The United States has been in a dispute with the EU's European Parliament and European Commission over visas for Bulgaria, Croatia, Poland, Romania and Cyprus. Travelers in those five countries are the only EU nations that the US requires to apply for a visa."

[+] Findeton|7 years ago|reply
The EU is acting as a single political body, that's good. The US requires a visa for visiting from the EU, thus the EU requires the same to USA visitors.
[+] cm2187|7 years ago|reply
To be honest it very much looks like the US ESTA which is a visa in disguise. This seems like a legitimate reciprocity to the measures the US have taken against Europeans.
[+] kashprime|7 years ago|reply
This is for an electronic travel authorization, which the US, Australia and Canada already require of all visitors. It's simple and takes minutes online, hardly a 'visa.'
[+] rwmj|7 years ago|reply
> It's simple and takes minutes online, hardly a 'visa.'

Except when it doesn't. If your visa waiver is refused then you have to visit the US embassy to get a "traditional" visa, and sometimes that's not even possible to get.

[+] wdb|7 years ago|reply
Yes, the ESTA and now the US citizens have to do something similar to enter the EU. I hope they also need to pay for it when they just have a stopover in the EU just like us in the US. I am fully on board with this as a EU citizen
[+] Youden|7 years ago|reply
Did the title or article change since this was posted? As of writing:

- The title of the article is "US citizens will need to register to visit parts of Europe starting in 2021"

- The article includes the quote "The [US State Department] official added that the "ETIAS authorization is not a visa.""

Where did the "visa" in the HN title come from?

[+] Scoundreller|7 years ago|reply
Tell that to the accidental Canadians or Americans (ie: born in Canada or US, but lived 99% of their life in Europe).

Then when they tried to get an authorization, they got rejected and told their EU passport is worthless and to get a Canadian/US one).

It’s a lot messier for the EU because of jus sanguine. Toooons of EU citizens that haven’t/won’t bother to get the passport.

I guess I’ll have to do it and waste the embassy’s time in a language I know 20 words of.

[+] dontbenebby|7 years ago|reply
>This is for an electronic travel authorization, which the US, Australia and Canada already require of all visitors

Canada does not require any visa for Americans tourists. All I need to do is bring a passport (or passport card if driving in)

[+] seanmcdirmid|7 years ago|reply
Australia ya, but Canada? The last time I visited Canada by car, I didn’t need electronic travel authorization, so there must be some exemption rather than all visitors.
[+] cm2187|7 years ago|reply
How do you define a visa then?
[+] throwaway2048|7 years ago|reply
The travel between the USA and Canada requires no authorization for citizens, ESTA or otherwise.
[+] geff82|7 years ago|reply
The elephant in the room is that between the EU and US, there should be no visa at all, ideally some kind of free move zone like the EU is itself (and befriended states like Switzerland)
[+] fiblye|7 years ago|reply
>there should be no visa at all

And why is that?

[+] obrisintor|7 years ago|reply
That is a shame. Whenever I would take a long trip that went geographically over the EU, I would usually buy a ticket that had a 8+ hour layover somewhere in the EU and tour around for a little while. I guess I will now have to find another country to take a layover in. Maybe I will start flying British Airway if the UK lets me visit visa free.
[+] Scoundreller|7 years ago|reply
Ugh, I hope their system avoids some real messes, but unlikely:

1) massive number of scam sites charging tons of money to submit your application (hopefully)

2) doesn’t crash on the first day

3) doesn’t exempt rich people that come by private plane (unlikely)

4) still allows EU nationals to get into EU with the Canadian or American passports. I’m technically an EU citizen by lineage, but havent bothered to get that passport since I don’t even speak the language.

It will probably still have to loophole if flying into a non-EU country and then driving in.

[+] dontbenebby|7 years ago|reply
It sounds like this e-visa is good for 3 years... does that mean hypothetically I could go digital nomad in Schengen Area as a US citizen?
[+] Scoundreller|7 years ago|reply
When scenario that really has really caused issues in the Canadian system is that they required Canadian permanent residents and Canadian work permit holders to travel with those permits.

They were ineligible for the Canadian ETIAS.

But if they lost their permits while overseas, it could take weeks for a new permit, meanwhile a Canadian passport holder could get a new one in 24hrs.

[+] mk89|7 years ago|reply
Completely useless response from our incompetent and overpaid European politicians two months before the elections. The world goes in one direction, and what do they do? They really think to increase security by applying these measures against countries like USA, Canada or Mexico... ? I must be living in a parallel universe.
[+] aaomidi|7 years ago|reply
Americans are usually extremely lazy about this stuff. I wonder what the effects are going to be on Tourism in Europe.
[+] ElBarto|7 years ago|reply
No, no visa will be needed.

The EU is introducing a system equivalent to the US's ESTA. (Most) EU citizens may travel visa-free to the US but must register (and pay) on ESTA.

It will be the same for US citizens to travel to the EU.

[+] anonu|7 years ago|reply
We are witnessing the breakdown of the world order established post WWII. The EU exists because of the US. Its security and trade routes are guaranteed because the US is an ally. No EU country has a military that compares to that of the US, especially in terms of naval power.

Hindering access to the EU may be a minor nuisance on the surface. But its a harbinger of worse things to come and undermines the unprecedented peace and stability we've seen in the world in the last 75 years.

[+] ElBarto|7 years ago|reply
The EU exists because of Europeans. The US do not want the EU to be a political power.

The US have had the 20th century, that great for them but it's high time for Europe to recover.

[+] Fjolsvith|7 years ago|reply
Preposterous! Central American citizens don't need a visa to visit the United States!
[+] tjbiddle|7 years ago|reply
This sounds amazing! When I first began traveling, I had to strategically time my time in the Schengen region to not overstay 90 days within a 180 day period. I ended up going to the Balkan region for a few months before circling back into the Schengen at the tail end.

This setup allows for 3-years multi-entry. That's insane! Well done, EU.

[+] ucha|7 years ago|reply
The 90 days within 180 days period restriction still applies. It's just that you will need a visa now and it will last 3 years whereas you didn't need one before.
[+] UnpossibleJim|7 years ago|reply
So, given that the ETIAS was only for 5 countries of the EU and the EU has reciprocated by enacting a union wide measure that, essentially requires the same thing (in school yard fashion); are we now going to "push back" and require an ESTA for all countries in the EU?
[+] arthurofbabylon|7 years ago|reply
Will visitors be permitted to stay longer than 90 days per 180 days?
[+] tapppi|7 years ago|reply
No, since the traditional visa waivers are only for stays of up to 90 days originally as well. So you'll still need a visa for longer stays, most likely either a work or student visa.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/

> You can enter the Schengen member states for as many times as you want, for as long as your ETIAS is valid, and you have not stayed more than 90 days in a 180 days period.

[+] christoff12|7 years ago|reply
“The Union said that the ETIAS visa is valid for three years and allows Americans to enter the Schengen Area as many times as necessary.”

> if I’m understanding this correctly, it’ll make things easier for nomads