You have to admire someone trying to do better than just "a better EverQuest/Ultima Online" (which is basically what World of Warcraft is) or a better Quake (Half-Life, Unreal Tournament) or whatever, but it can also really backfire on you.
The micromanagement in Black and White was terrible. "Villagers need food!"
""70 percent of people will be good," he says. "20 percent will dabble with evil, then be good. Only 10 percent will choose to be evil all the way through. What's fascinating is that this is very regionally dependent. It's different from Germany to the U.K. to Asia.""
"The way games are made now is fundamentally flawed," he responds. "If I was a betting man, I’d imagine that in the future, this business of getting more than a hundred people together for three, four years will look really odd. It's so incredibly expensive. I predict that we'll see a core of deeply talented people working on games beforehand, then a big team comes together for a brief period of time."
So, I say -- game design is moving toward something sort of like a movie, with years of preproduction by a small team, then a big production with set designers and key grips that only lasts a couple of months?
"Yes, exactly."
If you can solve this problem, you will transform the face of the game industry and usher in a new era of creativity in the face of the current method of massive teams and budgets. Is it a good idea for a startup? Beats me. It's a large, open question. I don't have an answer as to how to approach a solution. Yet.
This morality thing was already done nicely in the early Ultimas (I think starting with IV, or V). I remember the one dungeon where you are attacked by a monster called "little children". Before you had been trained to never fight children because it immediately makes you lose your virtues.
I don't think Molyneux approach sounds very scientific, though. What is scientific about giving game figures an artificial idea of morals? Scientific for me would be to not make those inbuilt, but let them evolve and see why certain morals make for more successful societies than others.
Sorry to rant about this, but it is one of my pet peeves with games (like civilization). They claim to be simulations, but they are not - they are just projections of the game designers limited perspective and morals. Of course the same could be said for many books and movies, too. I don't like it there, either, but somehow I feel that with games it is another dimension. The pseudo-simulation somehow makes the opinions of the game creators seem more legitimate.
"What is scientific about giving game figures an artificial idea of morals?"
I got the impression that the "next" game he was talking about, the scientific achievement that would be on the cover of Wired, would be the one after Fable 2.
no matter how you do it there has to be some starting point, initiation. and whatever values you place there wont be neutral right? or can they?
it seems that even if you make it very basic they will still include some interpretation of the world from the designers and thus be more likely to evolve ina certain direction.
to be a perfect simulation would need the game designer to be some sort of a god no?
I once emailed Steve Jackson (UK, Games Workshop, worked on Black & White) about a signed copy of Warlock of Firetop Mountain (paperback first edition). It had a 'dedicated to' the best guest house in that region of Scotland, and he actually remembered it. It's a pretty cute treasure.
He really does love his work. I admire his enthusiasm and dedication to ideals. It's infectious and he tends to bring out the best in otherwise jaded gamers. His Achilles' heel is that nobody can completely live up to those ideals. His audience feels disappointed when they see the flaws in the final product.
We need someone like him to keep pushing us forward. Bright futures don't come, they are made.
[+] [-] henning|18 years ago|reply
The micromanagement in Black and White was terrible. "Villagers need food!"
[+] [-] motoko|18 years ago|reply
So, what is the regional dependence?
[+] [-] LogicHoleFlaw|18 years ago|reply
So, I say -- game design is moving toward something sort of like a movie, with years of preproduction by a small team, then a big production with set designers and key grips that only lasts a couple of months?
"Yes, exactly."
If you can solve this problem, you will transform the face of the game industry and usher in a new era of creativity in the face of the current method of massive teams and budgets. Is it a good idea for a startup? Beats me. It's a large, open question. I don't have an answer as to how to approach a solution. Yet.
[+] [-] as|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tichy|18 years ago|reply
I don't think Molyneux approach sounds very scientific, though. What is scientific about giving game figures an artificial idea of morals? Scientific for me would be to not make those inbuilt, but let them evolve and see why certain morals make for more successful societies than others.
Sorry to rant about this, but it is one of my pet peeves with games (like civilization). They claim to be simulations, but they are not - they are just projections of the game designers limited perspective and morals. Of course the same could be said for many books and movies, too. I don't like it there, either, but somehow I feel that with games it is another dimension. The pseudo-simulation somehow makes the opinions of the game creators seem more legitimate.
[+] [-] teamonkey|18 years ago|reply
I got the impression that the "next" game he was talking about, the scientific achievement that would be on the cover of Wired, would be the one after Fable 2.
[+] [-] schtog|18 years ago|reply
no matter how you do it there has to be some starting point, initiation. and whatever values you place there wont be neutral right? or can they? it seems that even if you make it very basic they will still include some interpretation of the world from the designers and thus be more likely to evolve ina certain direction.
to be a perfect simulation would need the game designer to be some sort of a god no?
[+] [-] zandorg|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Novash|18 years ago|reply
[+] [-] schtog|18 years ago|reply
he has done some remarkable games and always try to be inventive.
a true visionary and one of the great game designers.
[+] [-] LogicHoleFlaw|18 years ago|reply
We need someone like him to keep pushing us forward. Bright futures don't come, they are made.