You can also find a bunch of video interviews that my half sister did when she found out by searching his name.
There are about 20 of us in contact now through 23&Me and Ancestry DNA tests, and at least 5 more that want no contact whatsoever. We get a new one nearly every month, and more so after holidays or sales on DNA tests. Estimations go into the thousands.
Luckily(?) my (real, not bio) dad was dead before he found out, but my parents had no idea.
Finding out was a serious trip. There were A LOT of implications with it, especially with meeting my half siblings. If anyone wants more details, I'm happy to talk about it.
Q1: What is your understanding of Thomas Lippert's motivations in doing what he did?
Q2: What physical & behavioral similarities do you observe between you and your half-siblings? Do you have any insight on the nature vs. nurture debate?
> But artificial insemination still requires an exchange of bodily fluids that can be procured only through sexual stimulation. (Consider: the stereotypical drawer of porn magazines at the fertility doctor’s office.)
This reminds me of the time I went to give my sample. I checked into the office, and the nurse looked at me, looked at my (Asian) wife, and then reached into her bottom drawer and pulled out a DVD of porn starting some Asian girls (I was not offered a choice or selection).
I was then given a cup and shown to my room. In the middle of the room was a very uncomfortable hospital chair covered in one of those pads that they put down that absorbs liquids to keep it sanitary. In the front of the room was a 20 inch tube TV/DVD combo (this was in 2013, long after the advent of flat screen TVs, so this TV was at least 10 years old). Hanging off the TV was a crappy pair of headphones.
To the left, a rack of about 25 porno mags of every kind of kink.
I was told to lock the door and then knock when I was done so the sample could be collected.
Not exactly the most conducive environment for producing that sample.
After I had my tubes tied, the office wanted a sample to verify the procedure, but as I recall they had me bring it in from home. Handing over a brown paper bag with a plastic container of your bodily fluids, whatever they may be, to the receptionist at a doctor's office is always an odd experience, but obviously they are used to it.
My children were conceived by IVF (in the 2010s). I'm not too worried that the doctor used their own sperm, since the doctor is a woman, and in fact I didn't see a single man working anywhere in the IVF clinic.
But one thing that's always on my mind is what if they accidentally switched the sample before conception? Since the conception took place outside of my wife's body, what's even better is that our children might be related to me but not her, if they switched the eggs around.
At some point we'll probably do a DNA test on them just for fun. The results won't matter at that point -- they're mine and I love them.
But you know, maybe they get a free college education out of the results. :)
I have 3 kids conceived by IVF as well. We donated the leftover fertilized eggs and a couple has now a 12 year old daughter. I have seen the pictures and my 3 kids know that they have a biological sister out there. It will be interesting to see if she will contact us once and if she finds out (We allowed for the option to contact us)
the Law and Order episode "Seed" in season 5 (1995) dealt with a similar case. I'm not surprised it's coming out in real life as genetic testing becomes consumer-accessible.
Honestly men probably shouldn't be put in a position to be able to tamper with things like this. The evolutionary advantageous temptation is too great.
Similarly, to solve a related problem, we should require mandatory paternity testing at birth so men don't unwittingly raise someone else's child.
In the end, does it really matter that much who provided the DNA? Family is mostly socially constructed anyway - just because half the children's DNA comes from someone else, doesn't mean they belong any less to the parents who raised them.
Of course it does. DNA plays a large role in a person's life including their health risks. You'd want to your doctor to be honest with you about what they're putting in your body, wouldn't you?
Which is great for people that can't have or don't want to raise their own DNA. But there's no way I'm signing up for that. The fact is that DNA matters a lot, and the linkage between DNA and behavior is only just starting to be unraveled. Parenting matters a lot too, but it's not the whole picture.
I don't disagree with this, but the children have the right to know - for example, are there inheritable medical conditions which they may be at risk for? or if not medical, what about inheriting other traits? I think this paragraph summed up this concern well:
"Ballard struggled with what it meant, existentially, to have inherited the DNA of a man who would lie to his patients and abuse his position as a doctor. Whatever made him do it, was that inside her, too? She knew the thought wasn’t entirely rational, but she couldn’t shake the feeling that a dark impulse might be lurking deep within her."
The quotes from the article seems to confirm this. To pile on to that anecodotal eveidnce, here's another quote from an adoptee I know:
"Just because I know I'm way better off being raised by [adoptive parents] doesn't mean I don't feel abandoned by [biological parents]"
[edit]
And at least from a biological standpoint, since your brain was evolved for the sole purpose of aiding in spreading the genes you posses, it makes sense that it would matter to your brain.
I think this depends on if you believe that personality and ability comes from nature or nurture. I assume some would like their children to have traits similar to their own which could include personality/mental health, IQ, physical health, etc. You're reasonably bounded by each parents family history.
On the other side, you may be using a donor to exclude one parents genetics, due to a known genetic issue.
Getting some random guys DNA eliminates any sort of ability for selection, which is what choosing a partner, or choosing to not reproduce with a partner, is.
It's fraud and it harms trust in the medical profession. It's like if you asked a tattoo artist to ink you with the Chinese symbol for "woke progressive" but instead they give you a tattoo that translates to "easily fooled."
In the case of switching the eggs, is it possible that the host mother would be more likely to reject it? Because in that case, I feel it's a fairly clear case in which you have directly affected one's ability to have a family by doing this.
I would say yes.... for example if heart disease doesn't run in your 'family' but it does in the doctor's, it would be good to know.... same is true for other diseases
[+] [-] elliotec|7 years ago|reply
You can also find a bunch of video interviews that my half sister did when she found out by searching his name.
There are about 20 of us in contact now through 23&Me and Ancestry DNA tests, and at least 5 more that want no contact whatsoever. We get a new one nearly every month, and more so after holidays or sales on DNA tests. Estimations go into the thousands.
Luckily(?) my (real, not bio) dad was dead before he found out, but my parents had no idea.
Finding out was a serious trip. There were A LOT of implications with it, especially with meeting my half siblings. If anyone wants more details, I'm happy to talk about it.
[+] [-] ericjang|7 years ago|reply
Q2: What physical & behavioral similarities do you observe between you and your half-siblings? Do you have any insight on the nature vs. nurture debate?
[+] [-] steve19|7 years ago|reply
How has the knowledge affected your life?
[+] [-] neonate|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jedberg|7 years ago|reply
This reminds me of the time I went to give my sample. I checked into the office, and the nurse looked at me, looked at my (Asian) wife, and then reached into her bottom drawer and pulled out a DVD of porn starting some Asian girls (I was not offered a choice or selection).
I was then given a cup and shown to my room. In the middle of the room was a very uncomfortable hospital chair covered in one of those pads that they put down that absorbs liquids to keep it sanitary. In the front of the room was a 20 inch tube TV/DVD combo (this was in 2013, long after the advent of flat screen TVs, so this TV was at least 10 years old). Hanging off the TV was a crappy pair of headphones.
To the left, a rack of about 25 porno mags of every kind of kink.
I was told to lock the door and then knock when I was done so the sample could be collected.
Not exactly the most conducive environment for producing that sample.
[+] [-] js2|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rlue|7 years ago|reply
I believe the colloquial term is "pee pad."
[+] [-] jedberg|7 years ago|reply
But one thing that's always on my mind is what if they accidentally switched the sample before conception? Since the conception took place outside of my wife's body, what's even better is that our children might be related to me but not her, if they switched the eggs around.
At some point we'll probably do a DNA test on them just for fun. The results won't matter at that point -- they're mine and I love them.
But you know, maybe they get a free college education out of the results. :)
[+] [-] minkeymaniac|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elliotec|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] js2|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nabla9|7 years ago|reply
Fertility doctor getting caught using his own sperm has happened several times before. It has been the plot in tv-series and SNL skit.
It's obvious solution if you want to improve the results of your clinic and perform miracles when all other doctors fail.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/the-fertil...?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5603323/Canadian-fe...
[+] [-] ghostbrainalpha|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rosser|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bhouston|7 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertold_Wiesner
[+] [-] _bxg1|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dbt00|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zxcvvcxz|7 years ago|reply
Similarly, to solve a related problem, we should require mandatory paternity testing at birth so men don't unwittingly raise someone else's child.
[+] [-] deogeo|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ZeroFries|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] denzil_correa|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bdamm|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dr_|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aidenn0|7 years ago|reply
- It matters a lot to some
- It matters a a bit to most
- It matters little to none to some
The quotes from the article seems to confirm this. To pile on to that anecodotal eveidnce, here's another quote from an adoptee I know:
"Just because I know I'm way better off being raised by [adoptive parents] doesn't mean I don't feel abandoned by [biological parents]"
[edit]
And at least from a biological standpoint, since your brain was evolved for the sole purpose of aiding in spreading the genes you posses, it makes sense that it would matter to your brain.
[+] [-] nomel|7 years ago|reply
On the other side, you may be using a donor to exclude one parents genetics, due to a known genetic issue.
Getting some random guys DNA eliminates any sort of ability for selection, which is what choosing a partner, or choosing to not reproduce with a partner, is.
[+] [-] vokep|7 years ago|reply
But the idea of this not mattering, of the DNA not being very meaningful, seems deeply, deeply wrong. A gut feeling that says "Absofuckinglutely NOT".
[+] [-] jerkstate|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] something2|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] minkeymaniac|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] onemoresoop|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Chris_Chambers|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] lsiq|7 years ago|reply
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