Embarrassed to say that my wife and I were duped into purchasing tickets to the show. We had thought it would be a highly choreographed, theatrical re-enactment of significant events in pre-Mao China, and had not done any research on it.
Instead, it was horribly amateurish propaganda (the entire "set" was a projected CG image). Heavy-handed plays for sympathy and the demonization of the Chinese state culminated in a spiritual Armageddon where a Christ-like deity leads his followers out of a world-consuming conflagration.
The audience lapped it up (this was Arizona, by the way). There were no misgivings or complaints voiced as we shuffled out of the theater. We felt suckered, and, to this day, share knowing looks of sheepishness and incredulity when we see billboards around the country advertising the show.
Yeah I couldn't stand it either. For me the low point was a mediocre male tenor singing solo at the top of his lungs in his native Chinese, as the lyrics' English translation appeared on the screen behind him: "Denounce the heresy of evolution!"
Total waste of time and $.
It's quite interesting that there's a big gap between English only readers and those have access Chinese(meaning language,not nation) media. FLG and the behavior of the group is well known among Chinese. The are the last one of the three groups called "独运轮" which effectively cultivated many CPP supporters among oversea Chinese community who are otherwise neutral or don't care much about politics. FLG make many Chinese upset by insulting their intelligence with foolish lies. Your experience shows almost same thing other than you don't know many facts inside China like most English reader in HN who get most misinformation on Western media.
There's a conspiracy theory that FLG is a very smart way of CPP to get more supporters.i.e. it's a tool of CPP. Personally I don't believe it. It's different from so called "controlled opposition". "controlled opposition" is only helpful for keeping balance but can not create support.
interesting, i wasn't bothered by the propaganda at all. the fable they wove through the story was a bit simplistic but otherwise a fun diversion. the dancing was mostly good but not "the best". it wasn't all that different from modern chinese wuxia dramas: a little bit of rebelliousness underlying an uncomplicated morality tale.
To be fair, Chinese propaganda comes off as heavy-handed to a Western audience, FG is putting on a propaganda show for literal survival, and FG has received the treatment which happens to "bad" groups of people. FG is a nutty cult, but (in my opinion) dont deserve to get organ harvested for belonging to a cult. Other "bad" groups might be Uyghurs now, Hui 5 years in the future, "intellectuals" fifty years ago, and lots more. The quote about "first they came for the Jews, and I was silent because I was not one" comes to mind.
Having grown up with many East Asians, I often times see people confuse East Asian aesthetics with looking 'amateur' to American eyes. I have not seen the show myself, but I wonder how much of this is going on.
But, honestly, I'm surprised you were surprised by the political bent. I thought it was common knowledge that the Chinese government's suppression of traditional chinese art led to a diaspora. I guess having a Chinese piano teacher who fled for similar reasons changes your perspective.
For those who don't know, Falun Gong is perceived like the Chinese version of Scientology in China, although a lot of injustice was done to Falun Gong followers and most of their assets frozen, there isn't much sympathy for them and they're typically regarded as a bit weird, believing in Qi, faith healing and all that.
It's also pretty counter productive and even tone deaf to put on program that alienates and denigrates the very groups in the States that would have been their biggest sympathizers against that oppression.
It also reminds us that there are worlds views even worse than the status quo. As unbelievable as that may seem.
"injustice" doesn't even begin to describe the level of persecution that they have endured in China. This is nothing like Scientology in any way, followers of Scientology are not murdered by the U.S. government.
"In order to reach transformation targets, the government sanctioned the systematic use of torture and violence against Falun Gong practitioners, including shocks with electric truncheons and beatings."
"Since 2000, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on Torture documented 314 cases of torture in China, representing more than 1,160 individuals. Falun Gong comprised 66% of the reported torture cases."
"The Falun Dafa Information Center reports that over 3,700 named Falun Gong practitioners have died as a result of torture and abuse in custody, typically after they refused to recant their beliefs. ... Government authorities deny that Falun Gong practitioners are killed in custody. They attribute deaths to suicide, illness, or other accidents."
"In 2014, investigative journalist Ethan Gutmann published the results of his own investigation. ... In 2014, investigative journalist Ethan Gutmann published the results of his own investigation. ... In December 2005 and November 2006, China's Deputy Health Minister acknowledged that the practice of removing organs from executed prisoners for transplants was widespread. However, Chinese officials deny that Falun Gong practitioners' organs are being harvested, and insist that China abides by World Health Organization principles that prohibit the sale of human organs without written consent from donors."
"In September 2001, five Falun Gong practitioners were assaulted while demonstrating outside the Chinese consulate in Chicago. The assailants, who were later convicted of battery, were members of a Chinese-American association with connections to the Chinese consulate."
"In 2002, 25-year-old Ottawa practitioner Leon Wang reported being kicked, dragged, and beaten inside the Chinese embassy after he was caught taking pictures of an anti-Falun Gong exhibit being held there. The embassy responded that Wang had 'sneaked in ... and disrupted its normal functioning' of the event."
although a lot of injustice was done to Falun Gong followers and most of their assets frozen
No individual human rights in China. The government can squash them as they like, and if the public doesn't like that group, no one will complain. (Which makes propaganda very useful for both sides.)
First they came for the wackos, the conspiracy theorists, and the minority religions...
Well, I guess my priors need a bit of tuning; they picked up from the pervasiveness of the advertising that this must be a funded propaganda push, but I assumed it would be from the Chinese government, not someone rather bitterly opposed to them.
(This is not an *-ist comment; that governments promote their cultures in other countries to create "soft power" is an established fact. I for one would love in many ways to live in a world where all our conflicts were solved with such soft power, rather than the harder kind.)
> but I assumed it would be from the Chinese government, not someone rather bitterly opposed to them.
I have to admit, I thought exactly the same. Just yesterday saw a booth with a nicely dressed man in a suit, selling Shen Yun tickets and thought it must a troupe from China and wondered how much propaganda is in it. I was imagining something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Institute. Then today saw this on the HN front page.
It turns out yes, it is selling propaganda, but not the kind I thought.
I think a Falun Gong association was my initial assumption (don't really remember now, to be honest), but I was already quite familiar with the significant push behind the Epoch Times, which tends to wear its anti-Chinese-government stance rather more on its sleeve in the form of headlines.
Of course on the other end of things there's China Daily so... maybe not such a helpful data point.
These rebellions usually have a frame story of an ancient way of life founded on people's harmony with nature and one another. Because the government operates at variance with this harmony, the government is not legitimate and must be replaced.
Francis Fukuyama talks at length about the "Mandate of Heaven" concept and its impact on legitimacy in China in his recent books.
My family and I went a couple of years ago. It seemed fairly benign, if a bit corny/garish. The whole "evolution is evil" thing kind of comes out of nowhere. Afterwards I looked up the group behind it and read about Falun Dafa. It won't convince anyone to join their group, but it probably raises a fair amount of funds for it. As entertainment it is moderately interesting, but I wouldn't go again.
> Shen Yun greeted me silently at the bus stop and loomed over highway exits, following me around on the physical plane of existence the way anything you shop for on the Internet starts to follow you around online.
Likewise, I'd see endless commercials of Shen Yun in papers and TV shows. I checked out a different, neat, performance in China but didn't see SY.
This makes me think of the strategy the great showman P.T. Barnum would use, typically by bombarding people with larger-than-life posters, to raise awareness of his acts. He earned a lot of business doing this.
Speaking of Baader-Meinhof effect, I can't remember the last time I saw anything about it - probably last year sometime - but I just got a brochure in the mail yesterday, and now this!
Jia Tolentino's pieces often resonate, in that particular way of things that are at the right distance to what they are talking about: close enough to understand them but far enough to show their place in time and space, culturally.
I got duped into buying tickets to this show for my wife as an anniversary present a couple years ago. (This was in Atlanta, GA) We spent the first half in utter disbelief of the crap we were witnessing, and left in disgust during intermission. However we were definitely in the minority, and found that very puzzling. Maybe the political religious stuff was going over most people's heads?
The other day I found a video about the "cultural war" between Falun Gong and Chinese govt., in the form of two disguised fronts (Shen Yun and Confucius Institute, respectively) within the US soil. This was made by a Western guy who's associated with neither of them. It's quite interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsXtk7psUc
Here in Japan, I see that a few large private universities are affiliated with Confucius Institute, and I have seen a Shen Yun ad on YouTube. The cultural war is certainly going on here too.
I often see it advertised at Chinese restaurants around town. Whenever I ask the proprietors if it part of Falun Gong, they all claim not to understand, or they just say no. I can't tell if they actually know what it is and don't want to admit it, or if they legitimately don't know.
Whenever I ask the proprietors if it part of Falun Gong, they all claim not to understand, or they just say no. I can't tell if they actually know what it is and don't want to admit it, or if they legitimately don't know.
Don't know, don't care, they got a restaurant to run! [1] They're probably just getting past your question and getting onto the next task. My wife grew up in mainland China. She thinks of them as wackos and/or somewhat like "carnies." If they can live and let live, and they don't do something like human trafficking, then they can believe what they want and make whatever art and dance they want, as far as I'm concerned.
([1] I used to work at a local midwest bookstore chain that Borders seemed to steal its ideas from. Customers got a totally relaxed vibe, even from the workers. However, being a worker there was a workout! I probably did enough walking for that one activity to qualify as a fitness program. So if you go to a restaurant that seems hectic, there's a good chance it's not just hectic, but that just getting through your shift is a heroic feat of endurance and optimizing on your feet. (I've also worked in restaurants.))
There used to be a vegan restaurant in Austin that was overtly Falun Gong. It had religious icons on the wall and the Epoch Times available. Of course it also had the ubiquitous Shen Yun advertisements. Great food!
"Chinese scientists with doctorates from prestigious American universities who practice Falun Gong claim that modern physics (for example, superstring theory) and biology (specifically the pineal gland's function) provide a scientific basis for their beliefs."
...
"For further information, consult your pineal gland."
The Chinese government does not need or want a "Taiping Rebellion" equivalent to that of the infamous Hong Xiuquan -- which was the largest war in human history in terms of casualties and destruction. So to them, Falun Gong and it's leader represent that kind of threat, once it reached tens of millions in size. That is orders of magnitude larger than the student protests in Tiananmen, and that was brutally suppressed. Totalitarian regimes are going to be just that, brutal/monsterous and unforgiving.
The Taiping movement sprung up during the failing days of the Qing when governance was declining and life for the common people worsened, so maybe the PRC government should focus on fixing that first before torturing dissidents
I live in the Boston area and they are very, very persistent when it comes to promoting the event. It seems like every local business has a Shen Yun poster in the window, and they go to door-to-door with flyers. There are TV ads on local broadcasters. And of course they are all over Facebook with ads. This reflects not only the zeal of the volunteers but a very large budget to do the broadcast ads.
The local media and most of the public seems to have no clue that it's a propaganda gambit.
For those interested in China, serpentza's youtube channel recently did a video about this. The youtube channel China Uncensored is also funded by people associated with Falun Gong. It is ridiculous anti-China propaganda, though some of it is warranted.
Most Chinese people I know already have a clear understanding of how creepy and weird Shen Yun is, and view it in the same light as Scientology. But that message hasn't gotten out to everyone else yet. It's not a beautiful chinese art, culture, and dance show.
My wife and I went a few years back and felt like we got scammed. Low quality acrobatics, with heavy handed propaganda and unexpected religious messaging. We didn’t sign up for that.
[+] [-] chb|7 years ago|reply
Instead, it was horribly amateurish propaganda (the entire "set" was a projected CG image). Heavy-handed plays for sympathy and the demonization of the Chinese state culminated in a spiritual Armageddon where a Christ-like deity leads his followers out of a world-consuming conflagration.
The audience lapped it up (this was Arizona, by the way). There were no misgivings or complaints voiced as we shuffled out of the theater. We felt suckered, and, to this day, share knowing looks of sheepishness and incredulity when we see billboards around the country advertising the show.
[+] [-] chrisweekly|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jjcc|7 years ago|reply
There's a conspiracy theory that FLG is a very smart way of CPP to get more supporters.i.e. it's a tool of CPP. Personally I don't believe it. It's different from so called "controlled opposition". "controlled opposition" is only helpful for keeping balance but can not create support.
Edit:for typo
[+] [-] clairity|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xkcd-sucks|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tathougies|7 years ago|reply
But, honestly, I'm surprised you were surprised by the political bent. I thought it was common knowledge that the Chinese government's suppression of traditional chinese art led to a diaspora. I guess having a Chinese piano teacher who fled for similar reasons changes your perspective.
[+] [-] forkLding|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TomMckenny|7 years ago|reply
It also reminds us that there are worlds views even worse than the status quo. As unbelievable as that may seem.
[+] [-] Tsubasachan|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HillaryBriss|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] perennate|7 years ago|reply
"injustice" doesn't even begin to describe the level of persecution that they have endured in China. This is nothing like Scientology in any way, followers of Scientology are not murdered by the U.S. government.
Just take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong#Tort...
"In order to reach transformation targets, the government sanctioned the systematic use of torture and violence against Falun Gong practitioners, including shocks with electric truncheons and beatings."
"Since 2000, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on Torture documented 314 cases of torture in China, representing more than 1,160 individuals. Falun Gong comprised 66% of the reported torture cases."
"The Falun Dafa Information Center reports that over 3,700 named Falun Gong practitioners have died as a result of torture and abuse in custody, typically after they refused to recant their beliefs. ... Government authorities deny that Falun Gong practitioners are killed in custody. They attribute deaths to suicide, illness, or other accidents."
"In 2014, investigative journalist Ethan Gutmann published the results of his own investigation. ... In 2014, investigative journalist Ethan Gutmann published the results of his own investigation. ... In December 2005 and November 2006, China's Deputy Health Minister acknowledged that the practice of removing organs from executed prisoners for transplants was widespread. However, Chinese officials deny that Falun Gong practitioners' organs are being harvested, and insist that China abides by World Health Organization principles that prohibit the sale of human organs without written consent from donors."
And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong_outside_mainland_Ch...
"In September 2001, five Falun Gong practitioners were assaulted while demonstrating outside the Chinese consulate in Chicago. The assailants, who were later convicted of battery, were members of a Chinese-American association with connections to the Chinese consulate."
"In 2002, 25-year-old Ottawa practitioner Leon Wang reported being kicked, dragged, and beaten inside the Chinese embassy after he was caught taking pictures of an anti-Falun Gong exhibit being held there. The embassy responded that Wang had 'sneaked in ... and disrupted its normal functioning' of the event."
[+] [-] ng12|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dionian|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stcredzero|7 years ago|reply
No individual human rights in China. The government can squash them as they like, and if the public doesn't like that group, no one will complain. (Which makes propaganda very useful for both sides.)
First they came for the wackos, the conspiracy theorists, and the minority religions...
[+] [-] dmitrygr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jerf|7 years ago|reply
(This is not an *-ist comment; that governments promote their cultures in other countries to create "soft power" is an established fact. I for one would love in many ways to live in a world where all our conflicts were solved with such soft power, rather than the harder kind.)
[+] [-] rdtsc|7 years ago|reply
I have to admit, I thought exactly the same. Just yesterday saw a booth with a nicely dressed man in a suit, selling Shen Yun tickets and thought it must a troupe from China and wondered how much propaganda is in it. I was imagining something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Institute. Then today saw this on the HN front page.
It turns out yes, it is selling propaganda, but not the kind I thought.
[+] [-] zerocrates|7 years ago|reply
Of course on the other end of things there's China Daily so... maybe not such a helpful data point.
[+] [-] solidsnack9000|7 years ago|reply
0184 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Turban_Rebellion
1351 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Turban_Rebellion
1794 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lotus_Rebellion
These rebellions usually have a frame story of an ancient way of life founded on people's harmony with nature and one another. Because the government operates at variance with this harmony, the government is not legitimate and must be replaced.
Francis Fukuyama talks at length about the "Mandate of Heaven" concept and its impact on legitimacy in China in his recent books.
[+] [-] SampleBourgeois|7 years ago|reply
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion
[+] [-] hvs|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] compiler-guy|7 years ago|reply
But the side-trips into propaganda made me feel like I had been deceived by the advertising, which really turned me off.
[+] [-] microdrum|7 years ago|reply
Science Belief 1: Evolution.
Simultaneous Religious Belief 1: Humans have souls and are special, elevated beings existing above the realm of the animals.
You’d be surprised how many smart people believe both!
[+] [-] Simon_says|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] badcede|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stcredzero|7 years ago|reply
"The fact that everyone in 2019 communicates via propaganda makes it almost impossible to understand what’s really happening."
"Social media" is a bit of a whitewash. It should really be called, "Everyone Propaganda!"
[+] [-] hprotagonist|7 years ago|reply
More than that -- until I read this, I had half-convinced myself that I'd been seeing these posters since the early 90s, not 2007!
[+] [-] snowwrestler|7 years ago|reply
> Shen Yun greeted me silently at the bus stop and loomed over highway exits, following me around on the physical plane of existence the way anything you shop for on the Internet starts to follow you around online.
[+] [-] hhs|7 years ago|reply
This makes me think of the strategy the great showman P.T. Barnum would use, typically by bombarding people with larger-than-life posters, to raise awareness of his acts. He earned a lot of business doing this.
[+] [-] stronglikedan|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LiamMcCalloway|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gaogao|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] obiefernandez|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] euske|7 years ago|reply
Here in Japan, I see that a few large private universities are affiliated with Confucius Institute, and I have seen a Shen Yun ad on YouTube. The cultural war is certainly going on here too.
[+] [-] vernie|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Glyptodon|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jscheel|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stcredzero|7 years ago|reply
Don't know, don't care, they got a restaurant to run! [1] They're probably just getting past your question and getting onto the next task. My wife grew up in mainland China. She thinks of them as wackos and/or somewhat like "carnies." If they can live and let live, and they don't do something like human trafficking, then they can believe what they want and make whatever art and dance they want, as far as I'm concerned.
([1] I used to work at a local midwest bookstore chain that Borders seemed to steal its ideas from. Customers got a totally relaxed vibe, even from the workers. However, being a worker there was a workout! I probably did enough walking for that one activity to qualify as a fitness program. So if you go to a restaurant that seems hectic, there's a good chance it's not just hectic, but that just getting through your shift is a heroic feat of endurance and optimizing on your feet. (I've also worked in restaurants.))
[+] [-] pram|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] compiler-guy|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] perl4ever|7 years ago|reply
...
"For further information, consult your pineal gland."
[+] [-] IOT_Apprentice|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Apocryphon|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ilamont|7 years ago|reply
The local media and most of the public seems to have no clue that it's a propaganda gambit.
[+] [-] kevin_thibedeau|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coupdejarnac|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JumpCrisscross|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jdlyga|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jinushaun|7 years ago|reply