This whole thing about character flaws and self control reminded me of the following passage from Raymond Smullyan's "This Book Needs No Title":
I know one woman who smokes. She says: “It’s not that I have to smoke; I choose to. I could easily give it up any time I wish to, but I see no reason why I should. But I can assure you, I could if I wanted to.” Her husband says to her: “That's only a rationalization! You couldn’t give up smoking even if you wanted to. You are not strong enough to give it up; you have to smoke. So to make yourself feel better, and to avoid having to confess your own weakness of character, you fool yourself into believing that you choose to. But it’s only a rationalization!” I know another woman who smokes. She says: “It’s not that I want to smoke; I can’t help myself! I have tried several times giving it up, but I have failed! I'm afraid I just don’t have a very strong character. I would love to stop, but I simply can’t.” Her husband says to her: “That's only a rationalization! You certainly could stop immediately, if you really wanted to. No, you choose to smoke (after all, nobody is making you) and you feel ashamed and guilty for doing that which you know to be harmful. So to avoid any moral responsibility for your acts, you fool yourself into believing that you ‘can’t help it. But this is only a rationalization.”
My only question about all this is: “Why are people so incredibly stupid?”
Pity he didn't expand on the last line, but I think deep introspection is required to understand what is really under our control
(1) if someone says "I want to do X" we can take them at face value. We don't have to argue that "they secretly don't and only say it because they can't quit". That's BS.
(2) if someone says "I want to quit X, but can't", we also take them at face value. Sure, they might enjoy X, but there's nothing to make us believe they are lying when they say they want to quit X or only say it because they feel ashamed.
Now, what we want to do as a rational plan (e.g. quit smoking) and what we want to do as an impulse (e.g. smoke another cigarette now) is not the same thing.
And the impulse can be far more powerful than the rational plan.
So, no need to second guess anyone. We can both taking them at face value (when they say they want to quit for example) AND understand that there might be impulses in them beyond what they rationally want.
I really wanted to quit, but I couldnt "chose to quit" - so I went a different route that worked well for me, but with an odd cost:
I convinced myself that "smoking will make you nauseous" -- and then, when I attempted to smoke, I would feel sick to my stomach, and I would gag a lot.
This worked for me - and I was able to quit nearly cold turkey.
The cost, is that now, any time I smell cigarette smoke, I begin to gag and I cant control it. Further, now my gag reflex is so strong that brushing my teeth makes me gag heavily....
I wonder how much of the complexity is "semantic." Ie, our language concepts just break down when trying to describe willpower addiction and their interaction... addiction is wanting something even though you really don't want to want it.
Too theoretical imo, to see if something is within your locus of control try to stop doing it for a month - you'll see whether you are smoking cigarettes or if the cigarettes are smoking you.
I have a challenge to anyone here: stop reacting to notifications on your phone for a week. You hear the sound, ignore it. Just ignore it. Get to it when you need to.
Notifications are the reason we are addicted to our phones. Checking whether something that arrived is important is like a slot machine. Notice that there is no way to put a different sound for "urgent" notifications. That's because apps and companies are all competing for a limited resource - your attention. It's the tragedy of the commons!
I think a lot of people underappreciate that they are a chemical computer and that therefore their feelings and decisions are chemical reactions.
So if a behavior changes the chemicals, it can change what you want, and now both these statements become equivalent: "I could quit if I wanted to, but I don't want to" = "I can't quit smoking."
A more accurate description of addiction is probably something like "I can't want to quit smoking."
People are like 20-year-old ERP software. We try to use it to do Extreme Programming in a modern language to ship new product updates in less than a week, and when we can't do that we wonder why our ERP system is so stupid.
We're not stupid, we're just an incredibly complicated legacy system, so doing things we weren't designed for is painful.
It's been a good while since I read any of Smullyan's work, but I kinda want to say that the entirety of This Book Needs No Title, along with at least one of his other philosophy books (and maybe some parts of his logic puzzle books) does a pretty good job of expanding on that last line.
The only things that appear to be under our control is what we say and do (or perhaps choose, as 'saying' is a form of 'doing', e.g. in a courtroom) in any given circumstance. Since that too can be reliably predicted for most people, e.g. I know how my daughter will act if I leave her alone with candy in the room... or how an ethical officer of the law would act if he discovered a million in cash buried in an offender's backyard under the dog house.... which are voluntary acts, but almost always predictable, then the question isn't really what is under "our" control, but more like, who is really running the show? Is cause/effect real, is libertarian free will real? I'd say so. What I have trouble believing is that free will is absolute, meaning, that one does not necessarily do X just because he can do X, and almost always does Y instead (e.g. what is right versus what is perceived as a possible choice, which may or may not be 'right' in the given context), Y being the almost always predictable choice of how a person would react in a given set of circumstances.
The title says that procrastination has "nothing to do with self-control", which is obviously an appealing sentiment.
However, the first paper that they reference says that "...if we have a great deal of self-discipline and dutifulness... we may exert the self-control necessary to engage in the task in a timely manner despite the lack of immediate reward or the negative mood that the task elicits. Procrastination, however, is the lack of this self-control, whether as a state or trait. Procrastination is the self-regulatory failure of not exerting the self-control necessary for task engagement... this failure at self-control may be the direct result of a focus on regulating moods and feeling states in the short term."
Overall, a better argument would be that a lack of self-control isn't the driving force behind our decision to procrastinate. Rather, what causes us to procrastinate are things such as anxiety or fear of failure, and a high degree of self-control is what allows us to overcome these issues.
If anyone is interested in learning more about the factors that can cause us to procrastinate, such as anxiety, perfectionism, and reliance on abstract goals, check out this article: https://solvingprocrastination.com/why-people-procrastinate/
> Overall, a better argument would be that a lack of self-control isn't the driving force behind our decision to procrastinate. Rather, what causes us to procrastinate are things such as anxiety or fear of failure, and a high degree of self-control is what allows us to overcome these issues.
Hmm, I don't think so. I would say:
What causes us to procrastinate is that we are using it as a _coping mechanism_ for our anxiety (which is related to our fear of failure). But it is an ultimately unsuccesful coping mechanism -- it has short-term alleviation of the negative emotions we wanted to avoid, but in the long-term can make them worse (as well as interfering with accomplishing what we want to accomplish, which can itself trigger anxiety and fear of failure).
Thinking a "high degree of self-control" is what will help us overcome procrastination does not actually help us overcome procrastination -- in fact, it can also trigger anxiety and fear of failure (as we are failing to have enough self-control).
You don't overcome it with "high degree of self-control", you overcome it by recognizing the role it is playing, finding other ways to approach your anxiety (not trying to avoid it by procrastination), and by _self-compassion_, not self-blame for your lack of self-control.
What is in the article matches my experience and observation. It also matches Buddhist philosophy/psychology.
You can _disagree_ with the arguments of the article -- is that what you mean by "finding it a bit misleading"? But they are considered and to some extent evidence-based arguments, that really are intentionally saying it's _not_ about "self-control", and thinking it's about "self-control" and you just need to "try harder" won't get you out of it. That is what they are intentionally saying, it's not misleading if the title makes one think they are going to say that.
"what causes us to procrastinate are things such as anxiety or fear of failure, and a high degree of self-control is what allows us to overcome these issues"
Self-control seems to be a behavior rather than a characteristic, quality, or a skill. When one has controlled oneself, one has exhibited self-controlling behavior by definition. But what causes someone to exert that self-control?
Sleeping has a huge impact in procrastination. The lack of sleep translates into an hyperactive amygdala (which has a big influence in processing emotions and impulses) and an under-active frontal cortex (which influences our rational thinking, etc) [1]
According to my experience, a good night of sleep is the best cure for procrastination, sadly, our current society don't optimize for sleeping well.
I'm not so sure. I think poor quality sleep and proscrastination are a symptom of not wanting to do something.
Poor quality sleep never got in the way of me doing the things I wanted to do. Whether it is prepping for a field trip I was excited about or waking up in the middle of the night to watch a livestream of esports game or anything I was interested it. It's only chores, jobs or studying for something I wasn't interested in that I always put off til tomorrow. And things like meetings at works I wasn't looking forward to always contributed to poor quality sleep.
Rather than being the cause, I suspect poor quality sleep is a symptom.
Hm. Not convinced of the link between the two. The article is arguing that procrastination is the proactive delay of making a hard decision to the detriment of our mental wellbeing. A good night's sleep isn't necessarily going to make you want to confront that decision.
I have the opposite experience. As soon as I started to sleep for more than 8 hours, I basically stopped doing something other than work and sleep. Just do not feel the need.
The way I usually formulate these lines of thought is as follows:
I have the desire to play video games (a waste of time), but I wish that I did not have this desire. I want it, but I do not want to want it.
If we do not have strong enough character to regulate our short term desires, our long term goals suffer. This tradeoff is implicit in how we spend every second of our day. Ultimately, actions reveal preferences.
If your long-term goals are unclear, or if your working conditions/ social circle are not congruent to your long-term goals, you will remain anxious over failing to progress towards these goals.
I know he's not for everyone but Nassim Taleb's quote is salient - “Few understand that procrastination is our natural defense, letting things take care of themselves and exercise their antifragility; it results from some ecological or naturalistic wisdom, and is not always bad -- at an existential level, it is my body rebelling against its entrapment. It is my soul fighting the Procrustean bed of modernity.”
There are probably more or less two classes of procrastination.
There are tasks that really do need to be done. No magical fairy is going to come along and do your taxes for you or some household task that someone really does need to do.
On the other hand, there are projects that aren't time-critical and that, if you hold off doing them, the need for them may really go away or you may otherwise decide that task isn't actually necessary.
I could be wrong, but I strongly suspect that humans were procrastinating well before the first nail was hammered into the first plank of the Procrustean bed of modernity.
Almost nothing is _always_ bad. But I guess the question, as with everything, is if you believe it is interfering with your ability to do accomplish what is important to you in your life.
And of course, there are always at least two possible paths there -- you can try to change it, or you can decide that you're actually okay with your life-under-procrastination after all.
But sometimes some people are going to find their severe procrasnation is interfering with their ability to do what is important to them, and they want to do something about it. This decision alone does not make it _easy_ though. My observation and experience have matched the articles, that self-blame doesn't help, but that recognizing the relation it has to your anxiety and finding other ways to relate to your anxiety can.
Recommended related: If Self-discipline Feels Difficult, Then You’re Doing It Wrong [1] by author of "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life"
"Cultivate curiosity: If you're feeling tempted to procrastinate, bring your attention to the sensations arising in your mind and body. What feelings are eliciting your temptation? Where do you feel them in your body? What do they remind you of? What happens to the thought of procrastinating as you observe it? Does it intensify? Dissipate? Cause other emotions to arise? How are the sensations in your body shifting as you continue to rest your awareness on them?"
This sounds very much like meditation, and while it may well be beneficial, someone with a serious procrastination problem may have problems following through with their intention to meditate like this as well, and instead just compulsively do whatever makes them feel better.
> The particular nature of our aversion depends on the given task or situation. It may be due to something inherently unpleasant about the task itself...but it might also result from deeper feelings related to the task, such as self-doubt, low self-esteem, anxiety or insecurity.
That may be what I'm doing with something right now. I have a couple of publishers interested in something I've designed, but I need to update a couple of things first before I submit it, and I keep putting it off, saying I'm too tired, not in the right mindset, I have too much other things going on. Might be because I'm worried they're going to reject me, though, and as long as I haven't submitted it yet they can't reject me.
I do have a lot going on though and it does seem like it's getting in the way. Work is being stupidly demanding of my time, and I had a job interview pop up last week that superceded all other tasks, and I was out of town for half the weekend and needed to pull my weight around the house and bring it back from the sty it got into from the past week of preparing for the interview the other day.
What helps me in those situations is to make a list of arguments for and against doing it now. This seems silly, but view it as communication between your subconscious and your rational self. Your subconscious self feels that its obviously not a good idea to do it now, and your rational self feels that it obviously is a good idea. The arguments against doing it now are actually the most important part. Try to articulate why your subconscious feels that way, even if those arguments are silly. Recognising that they are silly is the point.
I am a terrible procrastinator, and for me procrastination seems to be very much like writer's block. The problem isn't doing something so much as it is starting something. In the case of writer's block, I try to start by free-writing. I start writing with the intention that it's going to be crap and I'm going to throw it away. In fact, I might even start with complete gibberish.
Along with general procrastination and writer's block I also suffer from the closely related coder's block. I address this the same way: instead of free-writing I start "free-coding", where I write code with the intention that it's going to be crap, and I might even start writing gibberish, before I move on to writing code that compiles and maybe runs, but does nothing useful. The goal is just to get started.
In the case of both free writing and free coding, once I start I pretty quickly move on to writing stuff that's decent even if it's not great. That's something I can work with, and once I get in that mode I have much greater resistance to distractions.
To circle back to procrastination, I might use a similar approach. Say I need to clean up my work area, and I just don't want to (even though I also do want to). I need to reduce the scope of the problem to something absurdly simple, or maybe even just absurd. So I decide I'm just going to move all the loose items on my desk to another table so I can dust the desk. But I'm not even going to dust the desk, I'm just going to move the stuff off of it. For the immediate moment that's all I've got to care about it. Just moving stuff around.
But once the desk is cleared, dusting it and wiping it down is easy. It's so easy in that moment that that's all I care about. Then once that's done, I move the stuff back. But as I'm moving the stuff back it's easy to address each item one-by-one. Old papers can go in the trash or recycling, the books can go back to their regular place on the book shelf, the stapler can go back in the desk drawer where it regularly resides, etc. Then I realize now would be a good time to wipe the dust off my monitor, sort through the nearby stack of mail, etc.
Now mind you, I still procrastinate way more than I should, but these techniques work for me and I procrastinate a lot less than I used to.
"Raymond Chandler and I discussed this once, and he admitted to the most bitter reluctance to commit anything to paper. He evolved the following scheme: he had a tape recorder into which he spoke the utmost nonsense – a stream of consciousness which was then transcribed by a secretary and which he then used as a basis for his first rough draft. Very laborious. He strongly advised me to do the same … in fact became so excited that he kept plying me with information for months about the machine that helped him."
I do suffer from a similar condition, being able to get in the mood can be quite challenging.
I found that whenever I need to get started on some brain intensive task, be it writing or designing a piece of software architecture, being out and about in a social space (a coffee shop, a pub) works wonders.
I have both a lack of distractions (mobile on silent and out of sight) and a drive to do something instead of staring at folks awkwardly.
What's more surprising for me is even in a noisy environment, I still maintain my focus. I tend to favour pubs, so maybe it's the alcohol working its magic :)
> Procrastination isn’t a unique character flaw or a mysterious curse on your ability to manage time, but a way of coping with challenging emotions and negative moods induced by certain tasks — boredom, anxiety, insecurity, frustration, resentment, self-doubt and beyond.
I noticed that my tendencies to procrastinate greatly reduced (though never completely vanished) upon me taking antidepressants, after a very unpleasant conversation with my boss (at the time) telling me that I was underperforming, and it could lead to me being fired.
I remember the feelings I had then; there was this feeling of "I'm not stupid, why am I constantly pushing things off to make it seem like I am?", and it became this vicious cycle of "I do poorly because I'm depressed, and I'm depressed because I do poorly". I could definitely see it as an act of "self-harm", as this article describes.
How many visitors to HN or Twitter are often here because they reached a hard or tedious part of their task and you rationalized "giving yourself a break"?
I know I have. I added the noprocrast setting to HN to interrupt this habit and I often try logging out of Twitter so I would actually need to login to use it. But this article rings true that often I'm using that "break" as a coping mechanism to avoid doing something I assume will be hard.
d.) something else - I didn't read the article because I've wasted enough time in my life figuring out why I procrastinate and it doesn't bother me any more. But I still read most of the comments because I enjoy learning about the range of human experience around procrastination, because I do acknowledge it's something I cared about in the past.
edit) also lurking in comments is my preferred method of wasting time. Though I'm not wasting time to procrastinate at the moment. I'm just waiting for a scheduled event to start which I prepared for already. I think that's different.
This makes me think of the book Atomic Habits, which is all about how to form good habits and break bad ones. Procrastination can be seen in many cases as a lack of habit triggers to start down the path to work.
Keeping a daily to-do list (I use bullet journaling, but other processes can work) has done wonders for my procrastination. I have a habit of writing down everything I need to do that day - even if I've already done it. I have a habit to check at the end of the day to complete what isn't yet done. I have a habit of marking things completed. So my to-do list habit leads to not procrastinating. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than where I was.
I also have a habit of taking my journal and a pen with me everywhere. I'd rather be without my phone than without my journal.
I don't use a phone for my reference calendar or (especially) to-do lists, because a cell phone is full of all sorts of nasty bad-habit triggers, many designed by giant corporations that prey on my attention for money. It's basically a digital crack pipe I carry everywhere. So marking my tasks for the day without also checking email, weather, facebook (removed that app entirely and went cold turkey), etc... it's very difficult.
Paper is how I manage my time. It gives me positive habits and positive reinforcement.
We like to refer to that effort as willpower. But, from the point of view of looking at emotions fighting for dominance inside our brains, willpower is simply the strength and effort of the constructive emotions. The emotions which lead to long term happiness and comfort, even at the expense of short term pleasure. Logical, sober thought is one such constructive emotion, and we call it willpower whenever we are able to make our actions agree with the constructive emotions.
Yet… there is such a thing as “destructive” willpower. You might have seen it under the name of “rationalization”. It is what destructive emotions use to take over our action. If people say and think “I’m gonna be OK to drive with one drink,” that’s their drink addiction emotion convincing them to drink. That’s destructive willpower. It’s not the absence of willpower, but the redirection of willpower towards a destructive emotion.
I mostly associate procrastination with the inability to make myself want to deal with chores that seem alienating and dumb and like impositions from a boring bureaucratic external system that makes fundamental demands on me as a person with no personal connection—bookkeeping, entering long numbers into bank web apps, registering my residential address by filling out a form, going through KYC questionnaires over the phone, writing a report I know nobody will read, etc. And it’s worse the more the task is imbued with some kind of fake urgency by prudish pedantic adults while I also know that the negative consequences of not doing the thing on time are likely to be rather tame like a small fine or just a little bureaucratic slap on the wrist. I procrastinate with the same chores that might make me imagine dropping out of society to live on a homestead or as a monk. Probably I would get through these things easier if I had some “ADHD medicine” as the kids call it these days.
Chronic procrastinator here. Procrastinating feels like an addiction for me because it offers instant pleasure. Right now I am procrastinating instead of trying to fix a dumb JavaScript bug. When it comes to "bad mood," I've noticed a pattern from my self-centered ego: 1). The work is "beneath" me, and/or 2). The work threatens my ego.
> “It’s self-harm,” said Dr. Piers Steel, a professor of motivational psychology
I'm in the unfortunate position of being a layman who disagrees with an expert, but isn't it a bit inaccurate and confusing to call it "self-harm"? Doesn't that term already have a specific meaning?
As I understand it, self-harm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-harm) is a behavior where someone seeks out pain (such as by cutting themselves). It can be because focusing on pain allows temporary escape from other thoughts, or maybe for other reasons, but in any case the pain is something the person seeks out and is an essential part of the process.
It seems like "self-destructive" might be a better term to use when talking about procrastination. If I put off cleaning my bathroom, I'm avoiding something I can't/won't face, and that is going to come with feelings of guilt or shame, but I'm not seeking out that suffering as a tool for dealing with something else. It's just a side-effect of the choice to avoid something.
Or, if it really is (a non-physical form of) self-harm, can someone explain how? Are they saying the feeling of guilt over not cleaning my bathroom alleviates the feelings of unpleasantness associated with having to scrub the shower?
That doesn't seem right, but maybe there are two types of procrastination, a "light" one where the task is just unpleasant and says nothing about you (cleaning the shower) and a "serious" one where the task might reflect on you (learning to do something you don't think you're capable of)? I could imagine how self-harm might fit in with the "serious" form because maybe guilt over not trying could serve a purpose distracting you from the more-unpleasant feeling of doubt over whether you actually can do it.
Admit that our lifestyles are designed to drive the consumption based economy, rather than to actually make life more enjoyable.
The Australian Aborigines has a stable, sustainable civilisation for tens of thousands of years. European “civilisation” is set to make the world uninhabitable within two thousand years of inventing the steam engine.
[+] [-] placebo|7 years ago|reply
I know one woman who smokes. She says: “It’s not that I have to smoke; I choose to. I could easily give it up any time I wish to, but I see no reason why I should. But I can assure you, I could if I wanted to.” Her husband says to her: “That's only a rationalization! You couldn’t give up smoking even if you wanted to. You are not strong enough to give it up; you have to smoke. So to make yourself feel better, and to avoid having to confess your own weakness of character, you fool yourself into believing that you choose to. But it’s only a rationalization!” I know another woman who smokes. She says: “It’s not that I want to smoke; I can’t help myself! I have tried several times giving it up, but I have failed! I'm afraid I just don’t have a very strong character. I would love to stop, but I simply can’t.” Her husband says to her: “That's only a rationalization! You certainly could stop immediately, if you really wanted to. No, you choose to smoke (after all, nobody is making you) and you feel ashamed and guilty for doing that which you know to be harmful. So to avoid any moral responsibility for your acts, you fool yourself into believing that you ‘can’t help it. But this is only a rationalization.” My only question about all this is: “Why are people so incredibly stupid?”
Pity he didn't expand on the last line, but I think deep introspection is required to understand what is really under our control
[+] [-] coldtea|7 years ago|reply
(1) if someone says "I want to do X" we can take them at face value. We don't have to argue that "they secretly don't and only say it because they can't quit". That's BS.
(2) if someone says "I want to quit X, but can't", we also take them at face value. Sure, they might enjoy X, but there's nothing to make us believe they are lying when they say they want to quit X or only say it because they feel ashamed.
Now, what we want to do as a rational plan (e.g. quit smoking) and what we want to do as an impulse (e.g. smoke another cigarette now) is not the same thing.
And the impulse can be far more powerful than the rational plan.
So, no need to second guess anyone. We can both taking them at face value (when they say they want to quit for example) AND understand that there might be impulses in them beyond what they rationally want.
[+] [-] samstave|7 years ago|reply
I really wanted to quit, but I couldnt "chose to quit" - so I went a different route that worked well for me, but with an odd cost:
I convinced myself that "smoking will make you nauseous" -- and then, when I attempted to smoke, I would feel sick to my stomach, and I would gag a lot.
This worked for me - and I was able to quit nearly cold turkey.
The cost, is that now, any time I smell cigarette smoke, I begin to gag and I cant control it. Further, now my gag reflex is so strong that brushing my teeth makes me gag heavily....
[+] [-] dalbasal|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lliamander|7 years ago|reply
We fool ourselves if we think that either we are completely in control or that we are completely powerless.
The wind and the waves are powerful forces indeed, but we still have a rudder and sails.
[+] [-] macromaniac|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EGreg|7 years ago|reply
Notifications are the reason we are addicted to our phones. Checking whether something that arrived is important is like a slot machine. Notice that there is no way to put a different sound for "urgent" notifications. That's because apps and companies are all competing for a limited resource - your attention. It's the tragedy of the commons!
[+] [-] snowwrestler|7 years ago|reply
So if a behavior changes the chemicals, it can change what you want, and now both these statements become equivalent: "I could quit if I wanted to, but I don't want to" = "I can't quit smoking."
A more accurate description of addiction is probably something like "I can't want to quit smoking."
[+] [-] peterwwillis|7 years ago|reply
People are like 20-year-old ERP software. We try to use it to do Extreme Programming in a modern language to ship new product updates in less than a week, and when we can't do that we wonder why our ERP system is so stupid.
We're not stupid, we're just an incredibly complicated legacy system, so doing things we weren't designed for is painful.
[+] [-] narag|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] egypturnash|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bryanrasmussen|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] praptak|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] martin1975|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EndXA|7 years ago|reply
The title says that procrastination has "nothing to do with self-control", which is obviously an appealing sentiment.
However, the first paper that they reference says that "...if we have a great deal of self-discipline and dutifulness... we may exert the self-control necessary to engage in the task in a timely manner despite the lack of immediate reward or the negative mood that the task elicits. Procrastination, however, is the lack of this self-control, whether as a state or trait. Procrastination is the self-regulatory failure of not exerting the self-control necessary for task engagement... this failure at self-control may be the direct result of a focus on regulating moods and feeling states in the short term."
Overall, a better argument would be that a lack of self-control isn't the driving force behind our decision to procrastinate. Rather, what causes us to procrastinate are things such as anxiety or fear of failure, and a high degree of self-control is what allows us to overcome these issues.
If anyone is interested in learning more about the factors that can cause us to procrastinate, such as anxiety, perfectionism, and reliance on abstract goals, check out this article: https://solvingprocrastination.com/why-people-procrastinate/
[+] [-] jrochkind1|7 years ago|reply
Hmm, I don't think so. I would say:
What causes us to procrastinate is that we are using it as a _coping mechanism_ for our anxiety (which is related to our fear of failure). But it is an ultimately unsuccesful coping mechanism -- it has short-term alleviation of the negative emotions we wanted to avoid, but in the long-term can make them worse (as well as interfering with accomplishing what we want to accomplish, which can itself trigger anxiety and fear of failure).
Thinking a "high degree of self-control" is what will help us overcome procrastination does not actually help us overcome procrastination -- in fact, it can also trigger anxiety and fear of failure (as we are failing to have enough self-control).
You don't overcome it with "high degree of self-control", you overcome it by recognizing the role it is playing, finding other ways to approach your anxiety (not trying to avoid it by procrastination), and by _self-compassion_, not self-blame for your lack of self-control.
What is in the article matches my experience and observation. It also matches Buddhist philosophy/psychology.
You can _disagree_ with the arguments of the article -- is that what you mean by "finding it a bit misleading"? But they are considered and to some extent evidence-based arguments, that really are intentionally saying it's _not_ about "self-control", and thinking it's about "self-control" and you just need to "try harder" won't get you out of it. That is what they are intentionally saying, it's not misleading if the title makes one think they are going to say that.
[+] [-] pmoriarty|7 years ago|reply
Self-control seems to be a behavior rather than a characteristic, quality, or a skill. When one has controlled oneself, one has exhibited self-controlling behavior by definition. But what causes someone to exert that self-control?
[+] [-] SilasX|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] callesgg|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] juandazapata|7 years ago|reply
According to my experience, a good night of sleep is the best cure for procrastination, sadly, our current society don't optimize for sleeping well.
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1: https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501...
[+] [-] gabbygab|7 years ago|reply
Poor quality sleep never got in the way of me doing the things I wanted to do. Whether it is prepping for a field trip I was excited about or waking up in the middle of the night to watch a livestream of esports game or anything I was interested it. It's only chores, jobs or studying for something I wasn't interested in that I always put off til tomorrow. And things like meetings at works I wasn't looking forward to always contributed to poor quality sleep.
Rather than being the cause, I suspect poor quality sleep is a symptom.
[+] [-] dawhizkid|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GoToRO|7 years ago|reply
I'm sure there are many types of procrastinating but this is the most common for me.
[+] [-] sjapkee|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matwood|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] CompelTechnic|7 years ago|reply
I have the desire to play video games (a waste of time), but I wish that I did not have this desire. I want it, but I do not want to want it.
If we do not have strong enough character to regulate our short term desires, our long term goals suffer. This tradeoff is implicit in how we spend every second of our day. Ultimately, actions reveal preferences.
If your long-term goals are unclear, or if your working conditions/ social circle are not congruent to your long-term goals, you will remain anxious over failing to progress towards these goals.
[+] [-] IBCNU|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ghaff|7 years ago|reply
There are tasks that really do need to be done. No magical fairy is going to come along and do your taxes for you or some household task that someone really does need to do.
On the other hand, there are projects that aren't time-critical and that, if you hold off doing them, the need for them may really go away or you may otherwise decide that task isn't actually necessary.
[+] [-] TheOtherHobbes|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jrochkind1|7 years ago|reply
And of course, there are always at least two possible paths there -- you can try to change it, or you can decide that you're actually okay with your life-under-procrastination after all.
But sometimes some people are going to find their severe procrasnation is interfering with their ability to do what is important to them, and they want to do something about it. This decision alone does not make it _easy_ though. My observation and experience have matched the articles, that self-blame doesn't help, but that recognizing the relation it has to your anxiety and finding other ways to relate to your anxiety can.
[+] [-] adolph|7 years ago|reply
1. https://markmanson.net/self-discipline-youre-doing-it-wrong?...
2. https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/8529755.Mark_Manson
[+] [-] pmoriarty|7 years ago|reply
This sounds very much like meditation, and while it may well be beneficial, someone with a serious procrastination problem may have problems following through with their intention to meditate like this as well, and instead just compulsively do whatever makes them feel better.
[+] [-] cableshaft|7 years ago|reply
That may be what I'm doing with something right now. I have a couple of publishers interested in something I've designed, but I need to update a couple of things first before I submit it, and I keep putting it off, saying I'm too tired, not in the right mindset, I have too much other things going on. Might be because I'm worried they're going to reject me, though, and as long as I haven't submitted it yet they can't reject me.
I do have a lot going on though and it does seem like it's getting in the way. Work is being stupidly demanding of my time, and I had a job interview pop up last week that superceded all other tasks, and I was out of town for half the weekend and needed to pull my weight around the house and bring it back from the sty it got into from the past week of preparing for the interview the other day.
[+] [-] jules|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] curtis|7 years ago|reply
Along with general procrastination and writer's block I also suffer from the closely related coder's block. I address this the same way: instead of free-writing I start "free-coding", where I write code with the intention that it's going to be crap, and I might even start writing gibberish, before I move on to writing code that compiles and maybe runs, but does nothing useful. The goal is just to get started.
In the case of both free writing and free coding, once I start I pretty quickly move on to writing stuff that's decent even if it's not great. That's something I can work with, and once I get in that mode I have much greater resistance to distractions.
To circle back to procrastination, I might use a similar approach. Say I need to clean up my work area, and I just don't want to (even though I also do want to). I need to reduce the scope of the problem to something absurdly simple, or maybe even just absurd. So I decide I'm just going to move all the loose items on my desk to another table so I can dust the desk. But I'm not even going to dust the desk, I'm just going to move the stuff off of it. For the immediate moment that's all I've got to care about it. Just moving stuff around.
But once the desk is cleared, dusting it and wiping it down is easy. It's so easy in that moment that that's all I care about. Then once that's done, I move the stuff back. But as I'm moving the stuff back it's easy to address each item one-by-one. Old papers can go in the trash or recycling, the books can go back to their regular place on the book shelf, the stapler can go back in the desk drawer where it regularly resides, etc. Then I realize now would be a good time to wipe the dust off my monitor, sort through the nearby stack of mail, etc.
Now mind you, I still procrastinate way more than I should, but these techniques work for me and I procrastinate a lot less than I used to.
[+] [-] Inu|7 years ago|reply
"Raymond Chandler and I discussed this once, and he admitted to the most bitter reluctance to commit anything to paper. He evolved the following scheme: he had a tape recorder into which he spoke the utmost nonsense – a stream of consciousness which was then transcribed by a secretary and which he then used as a basis for his first rough draft. Very laborious. He strongly advised me to do the same … in fact became so excited that he kept plying me with information for months about the machine that helped him."
(from an interview with S. J. Perelman)
[+] [-] lapnitnelav|7 years ago|reply
I found that whenever I need to get started on some brain intensive task, be it writing or designing a piece of software architecture, being out and about in a social space (a coffee shop, a pub) works wonders.
I have both a lack of distractions (mobile on silent and out of sight) and a drive to do something instead of staring at folks awkwardly.
What's more surprising for me is even in a noisy environment, I still maintain my focus. I tend to favour pubs, so maybe it's the alcohol working its magic :)
[+] [-] paulsutter|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tombert|7 years ago|reply
I remember the feelings I had then; there was this feeling of "I'm not stupid, why am I constantly pushing things off to make it seem like I am?", and it became this vicious cycle of "I do poorly because I'm depressed, and I'm depressed because I do poorly". I could definitely see it as an act of "self-harm", as this article describes.
[+] [-] 0xCMP|7 years ago|reply
I know I have. I added the noprocrast setting to HN to interrupt this habit and I often try logging out of Twitter so I would actually need to login to use it. But this article rings true that often I'm using that "break" as a coping mechanism to avoid doing something I assume will be hard.
[+] [-] tonystubblebine|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] forgotAgain|7 years ago|reply
a)read the article so you don't have to do xyz
b)not read the article because learning how to stop procrastinating feels like self sabotage
c)start the article but don't finish it because you have ADD from surfing the internet as a means of procrastinating
d)something else.
edit: e)skim the article and write an HN comment about it.
[+] [-] sudosteph|7 years ago|reply
edit) also lurking in comments is my preferred method of wasting time. Though I'm not wasting time to procrastinate at the moment. I'm just waiting for a scheduled event to start which I prepared for already. I think that's different.
[+] [-] beat|7 years ago|reply
Keeping a daily to-do list (I use bullet journaling, but other processes can work) has done wonders for my procrastination. I have a habit of writing down everything I need to do that day - even if I've already done it. I have a habit to check at the end of the day to complete what isn't yet done. I have a habit of marking things completed. So my to-do list habit leads to not procrastinating. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than where I was.
I also have a habit of taking my journal and a pen with me everywhere. I'd rather be without my phone than without my journal.
I don't use a phone for my reference calendar or (especially) to-do lists, because a cell phone is full of all sorts of nasty bad-habit triggers, many designed by giant corporations that prey on my attention for money. It's basically a digital crack pipe I carry everywhere. So marking my tasks for the day without also checking email, weather, facebook (removed that app entirely and went cold turkey), etc... it's very difficult.
Paper is how I manage my time. It gives me positive habits and positive reinforcement.
[+] [-] mitko|7 years ago|reply
"""
We like to refer to that effort as willpower. But, from the point of view of looking at emotions fighting for dominance inside our brains, willpower is simply the strength and effort of the constructive emotions. The emotions which lead to long term happiness and comfort, even at the expense of short term pleasure. Logical, sober thought is one such constructive emotion, and we call it willpower whenever we are able to make our actions agree with the constructive emotions.
Yet… there is such a thing as “destructive” willpower. You might have seen it under the name of “rationalization”. It is what destructive emotions use to take over our action. If people say and think “I’m gonna be OK to drive with one drink,” that’s their drink addiction emotion convincing them to drink. That’s destructive willpower. It’s not the absence of willpower, but the redirection of willpower towards a destructive emotion.
"""
[+] [-] mbrock|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hashberry|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adrianmonk|7 years ago|reply
I'm in the unfortunate position of being a layman who disagrees with an expert, but isn't it a bit inaccurate and confusing to call it "self-harm"? Doesn't that term already have a specific meaning?
As I understand it, self-harm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-harm) is a behavior where someone seeks out pain (such as by cutting themselves). It can be because focusing on pain allows temporary escape from other thoughts, or maybe for other reasons, but in any case the pain is something the person seeks out and is an essential part of the process.
It seems like "self-destructive" might be a better term to use when talking about procrastination. If I put off cleaning my bathroom, I'm avoiding something I can't/won't face, and that is going to come with feelings of guilt or shame, but I'm not seeking out that suffering as a tool for dealing with something else. It's just a side-effect of the choice to avoid something.
Or, if it really is (a non-physical form of) self-harm, can someone explain how? Are they saying the feeling of guilt over not cleaning my bathroom alleviates the feelings of unpleasantness associated with having to scrub the shower?
That doesn't seem right, but maybe there are two types of procrastination, a "light" one where the task is just unpleasant and says nothing about you (cleaning the shower) and a "serious" one where the task might reflect on you (learning to do something you don't think you're capable of)? I could imagine how self-harm might fit in with the "serious" form because maybe guilt over not trying could serve a purpose distracting you from the more-unpleasant feeling of doubt over whether you actually can do it.
[+] [-] tylerjwilk00|7 years ago|reply
We are evolved for more immediate concerns. The TPS report lacks the same importance as catching dinner.
Unfortunately in the modern era the TPS report is what you catch dinner with.
What to do.
[+] [-] manicdee|7 years ago|reply
Admit that our lifestyles are designed to drive the consumption based economy, rather than to actually make life more enjoyable.
The Australian Aborigines has a stable, sustainable civilisation for tens of thousands of years. European “civilisation” is set to make the world uninhabitable within two thousand years of inventing the steam engine.