One thing my late father wanted to do was start his own rail line, one without the track. When Oldsmobile closed there were suddenly a lot of executives in Lansing having to make the commute every day to downtown Detroit. My Dad located some combination train engine passenger integrated car units that had been in storage since the late sixties. He simply wanted to rent the track.
Even at a pokey 50-55 mph he could get to downtown Detroit 30-45 minutes faster than driving because of traffic congestion. He demonstrated that the demand was there. But sadly the railroads wouldn't even take a meeting.
I've always wished for a network of rail flatbed cars that make high-speed runs from state to state.
You could drive onto one of the flatbeds (from a ramp) in your car, then ride the train from center-of-a-state to center-of-the-next-state. After a brief layover (for cars to get off and new ones to get on) the train would depart for the next state.
It just seems like a decent way to enable medium-speed, long-distance travel. And wherver you went, you'd have your car when you arrived.
Do trains cause traffic congestion? Like if there were 10 more trains passing through downtown Detroit per day, would it add minutes to the commute of cars due to train track crossings having to stop traffic more?
The problem isn’t having the train, it’s having permission to use the rails.
Having worked at a railroad, I will say it’s comically easy to steal a train, for instance. They all have the same key, which is basically just a plastic rod.
The argument of the railroads is... okay, you have our train. Now what? You either go forward or you go backward, and we know where both those directions go.
You can also go really fast and intentionally derail the train, which is both a monetary and (depending on where you can get to) a security concern, or crash into another train on the same tracks (possibly a passenger train).
Your "comically easy to steal a train" remark reminded me of the 1980s movie, Malcom: https://youtu.be/7lwqDX3fMzA?t=89 ... I always wanted my own tram after seeing that as a youngster!
Somebody should Airbnb this. Who wouldn't want the opportunity to cross the United States in their own personal rail car? No airports to deal with, no impersonal hotels. Sounds like a retirement dream.
I took my dad on the Via Candian (1) from Toronto to Vancuver. We had an absolutely amazing exeperience. You see Canada in a very unique way, meet interesting people, and time does this interesting thing when you're on a train for 4 nights. Highly recommend it (If you get your own sleeper car!).
How much are you willing to pay? There are (a very few) luxury train trips in Europe. Maybe $5-10K NY-SF or NY-SEA would cover it in the US? It's totally doable if there were a market; basically upscale the long-haul Amtrak routes with higher-end accommodations and food. The evidence suggests there's not the demand.
These "extreme railfans" occasionally make the already atrocious Amtrak service unbearable for the rest of us. Case in point: we once tried to take the Coast Starlight from Oakland to Los Angeles. The train was delayed out of Oakland by more than 3 hours, and into LA by about 5 hours (the difference between a 7 PM arrival and a midnight arrival). The crew had to change in an unexpected location, and conductors left the train unstaffed toward the end of the route.
The train had had two extra private cars tucked on to the end of it in Portland. When we looked at this particular train's schedule, we found that it started to fall behind schedule when it stopped to hook up those private cars (conductors confirmed this to us). That schedule gap started at 2 hours and grew to 5.
I know I'll never ride that Amtrak route again, and this experience soured me on all of Amtrak in general (except maybe for the NW Corridor - I know it's run differently).
We took the trip before the March 2018 memo that the article quotes: "These operations caused significant operational distraction, failed to capture fully allocated profitable margins, and sometimes delayed our paying customers on our scheduled trains ... one-time trips and charters are immediately discontinued." To us, that's too little too late, Amtrak's brand is ruined.
The one thing I've concluded about being in tech is that if I get rich, I need to put a model train line on my retirement property. But unlike everyone that gets 1/8 or 1/6 scale, I want to commission a 2 scale train.
I looked into this a few years ago and found that it would cost about $350k to get started. It did look promising, and I read through all of the regulations and inspection certifications required, the requirements from Amtrak, and decided I just couldn't do it. It was a fun fantasy for a few months though.
Autonomous luxury RVs will fill a bit of this niche, and at a much lower cost.
In the gilded age owning your own rail car was like owning your own private jet. A lot of moguls owned one or more. Rockefeller was too cheap to buy one, but one of the railroads gave him one to curry favour with him. THAT is power.
> “I’m not in this business to make money off of it,” says Lowe, a 33-year veteran of the airline industry. Some trips he has taken, he says, have cost him more money than the dollars spent on tickets by passengers in the Amtrak trains his cars are hitched to at the end.
It costs him more than the entire train of passengers? $3.67/mile is insane.
$3.67 per mile is just the "cost of gas". I bet he has to pay to get the train from storage to the spot where they'd pick it up, do the same on the other end to come back home, and do it again to get back to his parking spot.
There was even a hackathon on Prague (Czechia) - Kosice (Slovakia) train a few years back. It's quite easy (but not very common, for sure) and not so expensive to rent a car or a whole train in CZ (from the train companies). There are also some historical trains for rent (run by enthusiasts, usually).
Another interesting service Amtrak offers is its relatively low-cast shipping. If you're willing to bring your boxed stuff to the station, and pick it up on the other end.
It surprised me when I heard about it too. I had an opportunity to ride in a private rail car for a few hours [1] (http://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.4) and that spoiled me for life. Alas, I can't afford to travel that way.
[1] My friend rented the private car at cost from a friend of his for a family trip from Miami to Chicago and back. It was not cheap, but it was a rolling hotel (porter and chef, four bedrooms (one for crew), bathrooms, lounge, dining room and kitchen).
The problem with buying your own train is that you don't own the rails that you are dependent on. At least in Europe you have to submit a letter to an agency and request timeslot reservations some time in advance if you want to go for a ride.
From the article, it looks like the American way is to own a carriage or two, and attach them to a passing Amtrak passenger train. This is disruptive to Amtrak's passengers (!).
The European way is much less disruptive (the private train will fit in around whatever is already scheduled), though having to rent or own a locomotive and driver in addition to the carriage must be significantly more expensive.
I don't know about elsewhere, but in Britain there are fairly regular trips by private steam trains, or other old trains. A relative used to take these trips every few months.
People who aren't interested in the train itself can just rent an ordinary, modern train. Again in Britain, this happens for cases like a large group of football supporters (probably in the official fan club) who need to travel a long way for a match. Presumably, this isn't much different to hiring a bus with a driver.
One of those things on my bucket list, to ride across the country in my own rail car.
Reading the article and how dependent the whole thing is on Amtrak though makes me wonder if we're talking to the wrong railroad. The freight folks have a better system for building custom consists and sending them around the country.
The problem with hooking up to freight trains are numerous. First, the ride is bumpy. Freight trains add/remove cars throughout the journey, which generates large bumps.
More troublesome, though, are freight rail yards. They don’t have potable water hookups, wastewater disposal, or other passenger amenities. And they are notoriously dangerous at night. Drifters, break ins, no lighting... it’s no place for your family to sleep. Plus they are located on the outskirts of town, making disembarking difficult. Passenger rail yards accommodate for all of these issues.
In the UK, there's a privately-owned steam train that runs on the National Rail network. It was built from scratch starting in the 90s and completed around 2008. You can read about the history of the project here https://www.a1steam.com
The aspect of it that I found most interesting is how they solved engineering and manufacturing problems. These issues were commonplace in the heyday of steam, but few-to-no companies have the capacity or skills to complete them in the modern day.
It fun imagining what the equivalent will be for our generation. An iPhone which no-one knows how, or has the capacity, to recreate in less than 100 years!?
Googling "Wittgenstein missing train" returned me page 44 of "Ludwig Wittgenstein" by Edward Kanterian from "Critical Lives" series, which attributes this story to David Pinsent's diaries, but talks about "hiring entire train" instead of buying it:
Bing returned this HN thread and a link to the relevant part of Wikipedia article where this is also stated and "Portraits of Wittgenstein, Extracts from the Diary of David Pinsent 1912–1914" are referenced:
In an earlier episode Wittgenstein and Eccles, his friend from Machester, were planning to catch a train from Manchester to Liverpool. However, having missed the train, Wittgenstein suggested hiring an entire train to bring them to their destination. The plan was eventually dropped, but he still opted for a costly solution, namely hiring a taxi.
There's a private car club that does daily runs on one of the commuter rails lines in Chicago. I used to see it from time to time when my commute took my over the line it's on.
You can't expect that raising prices is going to cut it as Amtrak is very inefficient like many, if not most, state-owned companies [that even receive subsidies], though.
So can't a private railroad company build new tracks? For instance we know that traffic is bound by a interstate highway to get from City A to City B. It clogs with traffic due to a aging bridge and losing lanes.
Can my railroad company, acquire all the land necessary to build a station on both sides and track between them and then start to fan out from there?
Getting mostly straight line access between A and B is going to be amazingly difficult, and more so as you get closer and the property owners get more and more stubborn, because you're invested. 99% of a rail route isn't very useful, and doing a jog around a stubborn parcel owner isn't very possible.
Realistically, you need eminent domain, a frontier environment, or a super motivated population.
To build a rail line (or extension) in the US, you must ask the Surface Transportation Board for authority [1]. They also conduct an analysis of environmental impacts.
Technically, yes, but in practice it is an enormous expense that will likely never pay for itself. In New Jersey, laying less than 8 miles of tracks on an existing (abandoned, de-tracked) right-of-way in the middle of nowhere and building one station cost more than $60 million:
[+] [-] rmason|7 years ago|reply
Even at a pokey 50-55 mph he could get to downtown Detroit 30-45 minutes faster than driving because of traffic congestion. He demonstrated that the demand was there. But sadly the railroads wouldn't even take a meeting.
[+] [-] RickJWagner|7 years ago|reply
You could drive onto one of the flatbeds (from a ramp) in your car, then ride the train from center-of-a-state to center-of-the-next-state. After a brief layover (for cars to get off and new ones to get on) the train would depart for the next state.
It just seems like a decent way to enable medium-speed, long-distance travel. And wherver you went, you'd have your car when you arrived.
[+] [-] jaysonelliot|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unreal37|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thanatos_dem|7 years ago|reply
Having worked at a railroad, I will say it’s comically easy to steal a train, for instance. They all have the same key, which is basically just a plastic rod.
The argument of the railroads is... okay, you have our train. Now what? You either go forward or you go backward, and we know where both those directions go.
[+] [-] avar|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrspeaker|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pseudolus|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] theNJR|7 years ago|reply
(1)https://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-our-destinations/trains/ro...
[+] [-] ghaff|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ak217|7 years ago|reply
The train had had two extra private cars tucked on to the end of it in Portland. When we looked at this particular train's schedule, we found that it started to fall behind schedule when it stopped to hook up those private cars (conductors confirmed this to us). That schedule gap started at 2 hours and grew to 5.
I know I'll never ride that Amtrak route again, and this experience soured me on all of Amtrak in general (except maybe for the NW Corridor - I know it's run differently).
We took the trip before the March 2018 memo that the article quotes: "These operations caused significant operational distraction, failed to capture fully allocated profitable margins, and sometimes delayed our paying customers on our scheduled trains ... one-time trips and charters are immediately discontinued." To us, that's too little too late, Amtrak's brand is ruined.
[+] [-] Waterluvian|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] np_tedious|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pontifier|7 years ago|reply
Autonomous luxury RVs will fill a bit of this niche, and at a much lower cost.
[+] [-] JackFr|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josephcooney|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darkstar999|7 years ago|reply
It costs him more than the entire train of passengers? $3.67/mile is insane.
[+] [-] unreal37|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] michalskop|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stabbles|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ocdtrekkie|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 8bitsrule|7 years ago|reply
https://www.amtrak.com/express-shipping
There's a 500-lb limit on each shipment, between more than 100 cities. An option for those not in a hurry, or who want to avoid driving the stuff.
[+] [-] spc476|7 years ago|reply
[1] My friend rented the private car at cost from a friend of his for a family trip from Miami to Chicago and back. It was not cheap, but it was a rolling hotel (porter and chef, four bedrooms (one for crew), bathrooms, lounge, dining room and kitchen).
[+] [-] tlack|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] monksy|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dau|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Symbiote|7 years ago|reply
The European way is much less disruptive (the private train will fit in around whatever is already scheduled), though having to rent or own a locomotive and driver in addition to the carriage must be significantly more expensive.
I don't know about elsewhere, but in Britain there are fairly regular trips by private steam trains, or other old trains. A relative used to take these trips every few months.
People who aren't interested in the train itself can just rent an ordinary, modern train. Again in Britain, this happens for cases like a large group of football supporters (probably in the official fan club) who need to travel a long way for a match. Presumably, this isn't much different to hiring a bus with a driver.
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|7 years ago|reply
Reading the article and how dependent the whole thing is on Amtrak though makes me wonder if we're talking to the wrong railroad. The freight folks have a better system for building custom consists and sending them around the country.
[+] [-] 1stcity3rdcoast|7 years ago|reply
More troublesome, though, are freight rail yards. They don’t have potable water hookups, wastewater disposal, or other passenger amenities. And they are notoriously dangerous at night. Drifters, break ins, no lighting... it’s no place for your family to sleep. Plus they are located on the outskirts of town, making disembarking difficult. Passenger rail yards accommodate for all of these issues.
[+] [-] flurdy|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adav|7 years ago|reply
The aspect of it that I found most interesting is how they solved engineering and manufacturing problems. These issues were commonplace in the heyday of steam, but few-to-no companies have the capacity or skills to complete them in the modern day.
It fun imagining what the equivalent will be for our generation. An iPhone which no-one knows how, or has the capacity, to recreate in less than 100 years!?
Edit: spelling
[+] [-] stabbles|7 years ago|reply
Googling the story does not turn up many results. Does anyone know if this is in fact true?
[+] [-] anonymfus|7 years ago|reply
https://books.google.ru/books?id=yfeJH-1KcD8C&pg=PA44&lpg=PA...
Bing returned this HN thread and a link to the relevant part of Wikipedia article where this is also stated and "Portraits of Wittgenstein, Extracts from the Diary of David Pinsent 1912–1914" are referenced:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Wittgenstein#Sexual_ori...
[+] [-] yurymik|7 years ago|reply
In an earlier episode Wittgenstein and Eccles, his friend from Machester, were planning to catch a train from Manchester to Liverpool. However, having missed the train, Wittgenstein suggested hiring an entire train to bring them to their destination. The plan was eventually dropped, but he still opted for a costly solution, namely hiring a taxi.
[+] [-] noer|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scythe|7 years ago|reply
Well there's your problem. Raise the price! You'd think a senior fellow at the Cato Institute of all places would have thought of that.
[+] [-] henvic|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nwhatt|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] crisopolis|7 years ago|reply
Can my railroad company, acquire all the land necessary to build a station on both sides and track between them and then start to fan out from there?
Besides the property owners who can stop me?
[+] [-] toast0|7 years ago|reply
Realistically, you need eminent domain, a frontier environment, or a super motivated population.
[+] [-] niftich|7 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.stb.gov/stb/public/resources_construct.html
[+] [-] antonvs|7 years ago|reply
Lack of profitability.
[+] [-] betterunix2|7 years ago|reply
https://www.njherald.com/20171221/train-station-restored-rai...
[+] [-] burlesona|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
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