The part about the Asian woman trying to "decolonize" herself after realizing she was only dating white guys was funny and sad. She wound up going on 6 dates - 5 with black guys and one with a half Asian half white guy.
People talk a lot about "white male privilege" and I think this is probably the biggest example. As a white guy, I feel bad for my Asian male friends. Some of the most racist things I've ever heard in my life came from Asian women talking about Asian men. It must feel so shitty for those guys.
Yet it's often not in our control, since we also have to consider things besides race like cultural background.
I would date black women if I could relate to them on as much as I could from other women of other backgrounds. I've known enough black women where I know that I don't "click" with most of them, even if we get along on a platonic basis. It goes to show how culturally segregated we can still be in America. (not that it isn't as bad or worse elsewhere)
I've found that I can be attracted to all sorts of women. Different "races", sizes, shapes, ages, etc. But I'm primarily attracted to white and south-east Asian women. Why? The first one is kind of obvious since people consider me white, but I really don't know about the second other than that I seem to get along really well with them.
If someone genuinely wants to open themselves up to other sorts of people, I think that's great. The part where it would get weird for me is if someone was purposely dating people they aren't normally attracted to in order to make themselves feel good about being less racist. Everyone's talking about "fetishization" these days, but purposely dating black guys can be fetishizing even if it's well-intentioned.
I cant help but feel like if gender norms weren't so rigid and people were allowed to express themselves however they feel comfortable without being stigmatized and judged then you wouldn't have people say (imo) crazy things like "my biology is the biology of a woman regardless of whether or not doctors agree." That honestly just feels like an extreme (and ignorant, again, imo) response to hatred and discrimination that people have experience in the past.
"A trans woman's biology is a female biology" is just a statement I cannot agree with at all. One of my best friends growing up was a guy I'll call Adam. In high school Adam was an incredible athlete (he was a runner and swimmer) and held a lot of county records and was the third fastest at the 400m hurdles in the state. Adam came out as trans around his 21st birthday and now lives a woman I'll call Alice. Alice is a trans woman. The idea that her biology is that of a person born with two X chromosomes and a vagina is a little ridiculous to me. I see Alice as a woman today because that's what she wants and it doesn't make a difference to our friendship however I know Alice has a penis and spent 90% of her life living as a boy/man. FWIW, she and I have talked a lot about this and shares my views. In fact my views on the matter are largely influenced by her perspective on it.
Um, no. Reality dictates that everything is based on relativity and probability, but the logic that everything technically falls into a grey area doesn't mean that abstractions like male and female, man and woman (silos that the vast vast majority of people fall into) aren't useful, practical, or real.
If one believes that binary is bullshit, then be consistent and accept metaphysical nihilism. Accept that binary in computers is "bullshit" because a 1 can be represented by an infinite number of voltages, and sometimes 0 is represented by a really low voltage. Ignorant binary-normative CPUs!
I don't care how people identify, how they have sex, how they love, etc. People should be able to express their true selves, but I'm getting tired of the constant disdain against normalcy. I've never quite fit in anywhere I go so I think I can understand what it's like to want society to conform to one's vision. Part of being a part of society is some level of conformity and accepting that other people aren't like you.
If binary-non-conforming people want acceptance, then they ought to quit acting like my sex and my gender are bullshit. Gay people didn't achieve their current status in society, as better as it could be, by telling gay people that there's no such thing as "straight" sex.
> Gender is about your identity, your expression, and it's often based on your idea of sex.
If gender isn't related to the perception or expression of biological sex, then what is it? If sex is optional for gender, then how is gender different from fashion?
I could go on point by point, but those two things really address most of the video.
EDIT: For clarity, I'm not saying that I don't think that gender isn't a form of fashion. I'm saying that, if the variable of sex is removed, then it's a totally useless word that can be substituted with the word fashion. (in which case it's bizarre that people are trying to make other people like their sense of fashion)
Don't shoot the messenger down voting my post, I put it up for context. I find it odd that 'Teen Vogue' magazine should be showcasing these types of personal views as fact, as the comments on the Youtube video also discuss....
Wow, I am very disappointed by many of the comments in this thread. I would have thought that my fellow tech workers would be more rational and less bigoted than this. I am also frankly amazed that HN allows these viewpoints be spread. As a gay man, this makes this forum considerably less welcoming. Consider if instead of anti-LGBT bias, it were racism instead.
HN has a very strict commenting policy, with arguments needing to be substantiated, etc. Especially in light of that, the tolerance of posts that are not only unsubstantiated and unscientific, but also discriminatory, is bizarre.
>Consider if instead of anti-LGBT bias, it were racism instead.
Yeah, umm... plenty of "racial realists" and ethno-nationalists here too, and incels, and anti-semites. Unfortunately, alt-right, anti-progressive and and neoreactionary politics seem to have taken root in the tech community, and that's becoming as much a part of tech culture as anarchism was for a previous generation of hackers.
That said, I think this was actually one of the better threads HN has had on this subject in a while.
>HN has a very strict commenting policy, with arguments needing to be substantiated, etc.
It doesn't. All HN requires is that comments be civil, and not assume bad faith. It's up to the community to call people out on their BS, but it's not policy.
I don't get why people are so uptight about other peoples sexual preferences. Surely we're past the whole "Aids is a gay disease" stage by now? I know that was a big part of the uptight anti queer movement for a long time.
Hell even that term is really self defeating. (Queer)
Who I am attracted to is about what I personally like. It has nothing to do with what other people think is right or not.
that's thought policing and fuck anyone who thinks that shit is OK.
[+] [-] streptomycin|7 years ago|reply
People talk a lot about "white male privilege" and I think this is probably the biggest example. As a white guy, I feel bad for my Asian male friends. Some of the most racist things I've ever heard in my life came from Asian women talking about Asian men. It must feel so shitty for those guys.
[+] [-] ravenstine|7 years ago|reply
I would date black women if I could relate to them on as much as I could from other women of other backgrounds. I've known enough black women where I know that I don't "click" with most of them, even if we get along on a platonic basis. It goes to show how culturally segregated we can still be in America. (not that it isn't as bad or worse elsewhere)
I've found that I can be attracted to all sorts of women. Different "races", sizes, shapes, ages, etc. But I'm primarily attracted to white and south-east Asian women. Why? The first one is kind of obvious since people consider me white, but I really don't know about the second other than that I seem to get along really well with them.
If someone genuinely wants to open themselves up to other sorts of people, I think that's great. The part where it would get weird for me is if someone was purposely dating people they aren't normally attracted to in order to make themselves feel good about being less racist. Everyone's talking about "fetishization" these days, but purposely dating black guys can be fetishizing even if it's well-intentioned.
[+] [-] nautical|7 years ago|reply
If you see https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-10...
In 2014 :
---------
Asian women preferred Asian men
White women preferred White men
Black Women preferred Black men
and Latino preferred Latino men
Where as in 2009
---------
Asian women were preferring White men
but its interesting to see that Asian men almost always preferred Asian women
[+] [-] olivermarks|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dopamean|7 years ago|reply
"A trans woman's biology is a female biology" is just a statement I cannot agree with at all. One of my best friends growing up was a guy I'll call Adam. In high school Adam was an incredible athlete (he was a runner and swimmer) and held a lot of county records and was the third fastest at the 400m hurdles in the state. Adam came out as trans around his 21st birthday and now lives a woman I'll call Alice. Alice is a trans woman. The idea that her biology is that of a person born with two X chromosomes and a vagina is a little ridiculous to me. I see Alice as a woman today because that's what she wants and it doesn't make a difference to our friendship however I know Alice has a penis and spent 90% of her life living as a boy/man. FWIW, she and I have talked a lot about this and shares my views. In fact my views on the matter are largely influenced by her perspective on it.
[+] [-] ravenstine|7 years ago|reply
Um, no. Reality dictates that everything is based on relativity and probability, but the logic that everything technically falls into a grey area doesn't mean that abstractions like male and female, man and woman (silos that the vast vast majority of people fall into) aren't useful, practical, or real.
If one believes that binary is bullshit, then be consistent and accept metaphysical nihilism. Accept that binary in computers is "bullshit" because a 1 can be represented by an infinite number of voltages, and sometimes 0 is represented by a really low voltage. Ignorant binary-normative CPUs!
I don't care how people identify, how they have sex, how they love, etc. People should be able to express their true selves, but I'm getting tired of the constant disdain against normalcy. I've never quite fit in anywhere I go so I think I can understand what it's like to want society to conform to one's vision. Part of being a part of society is some level of conformity and accepting that other people aren't like you.
If binary-non-conforming people want acceptance, then they ought to quit acting like my sex and my gender are bullshit. Gay people didn't achieve their current status in society, as better as it could be, by telling gay people that there's no such thing as "straight" sex.
> Gender is about your identity, your expression, and it's often based on your idea of sex.
If gender isn't related to the perception or expression of biological sex, then what is it? If sex is optional for gender, then how is gender different from fashion?
I could go on point by point, but those two things really address most of the video.
EDIT: For clarity, I'm not saying that I don't think that gender isn't a form of fashion. I'm saying that, if the variable of sex is removed, then it's a totally useless word that can be substituted with the word fashion. (in which case it's bizarre that people are trying to make other people like their sense of fashion)
[+] [-] olivermarks|7 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] shereadsthenews|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] spammersharass|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Red_Tarsius|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] lenticular|7 years ago|reply
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/2013...
[+] [-] lenticular|7 years ago|reply
HN has a very strict commenting policy, with arguments needing to be substantiated, etc. Especially in light of that, the tolerance of posts that are not only unsubstantiated and unscientific, but also discriminatory, is bizarre.
[+] [-] krapp|7 years ago|reply
Yeah, umm... plenty of "racial realists" and ethno-nationalists here too, and incels, and anti-semites. Unfortunately, alt-right, anti-progressive and and neoreactionary politics seem to have taken root in the tech community, and that's becoming as much a part of tech culture as anarchism was for a previous generation of hackers.
That said, I think this was actually one of the better threads HN has had on this subject in a while.
>HN has a very strict commenting policy, with arguments needing to be substantiated, etc.
It doesn't. All HN requires is that comments be civil, and not assume bad faith. It's up to the community to call people out on their BS, but it's not policy.
[+] [-] senectus1|7 years ago|reply
Who I am attracted to is about what I personally like. It has nothing to do with what other people think is right or not.
that's thought policing and fuck anyone who thinks that shit is OK.
[+] [-] krapp|7 years ago|reply
Nope. People still believe that.
People still believe that God sends hurricanes and terrorist attacks to punish societies that tolerate LGBT people.
People still believe that LGBT people are just closet pedophiles, and equate accepting them with accepting bestiality.
The LGBT community itself has people (TERFs) in it who believe transgender people are just men pretending to be women for sexual gratification.
We haven't really moved past any of that.
[+] [-] aidsGayPlague|7 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] throwaway_98554|7 years ago|reply
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